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Joined: Feb 2011
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
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Are the "things" that die you are referring to small deer or rabbits or what? From prairie dogs to deer. Obviously, prairie dogs were the subject of explosion and lift.
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314 |
A bullet through the heart/lungs results in a short death run with a piled up deer at the end. Billy, That statement kinda hits the nail on the head. That's what I've always experienced with cup and cores. They bust the heart and lungs, then pile up after a short death run. I've seen different results with mono's. I've seen some long death runs after the heart and lungs were punched....longer than I expected from a good shot and longer than those shot with cup and cores. But I've also seen hearts and lungs punched with fast twist barrels shooting monos pile up a little quicker than shots from slower twisted barrels of the same/same. (Same bullet, same cartridge, same load, etc.) Maybe coincidence, that's why I asked...just curious as to others results.
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,318 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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My opinion is it's between the operators ears.
Truth is, most shooting mono's drop down a step or two in bullet weight, increasing velocity. I think it's a fairly well established reality that velocity does wonderful and noticeable things to game animals at the end of a rifle barrel.
To drop critters even quicker, couple frangible with velocity.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've got little experience with it, but the 155 pound whitail I punched with a 127LRX from my 6.5CM only made about 30 yds and he was damn near full run when I shot him. A sample of one, but I'm begining to think there's something to it. I might even have a 8" twist 7mm-08 AI Hart Barrel in the works for my 84m so I can conduct testing w/ 145grn .284 LRX's.....
David
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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shortactionsmoker; Good evening to you sir, hopefully this finds you and yours doing acceptably well. A short while ago I started a similar thread - I was going to say parallel, but perhaps that's overstating it some. Anyway here's a link to that one should you be interested in reading the responses. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../Tissue_Damage_270_vs_6_5x55#Post9248055The highlights for me were that when I finally measured the twist on the .270 barrel I was using it was slower than normal. That coupled with sluggish velocities for a .270 and my using TSX/TTSX/GMX bullets made for less than stellar performance - for a .270 anyway. Anyway I believe enough in faster twist enough that I went to the garage, unscrewed the barrel and that action is at the gunsmith up the valley as I type this - having a fast twist 6.5x55 barrel installed. Hopefully that was of some use to you or someone out there tonight. All the best to you and yours in this Christmas season. Dwayne
The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,721 Likes: 48
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,721 Likes: 48 |
Talk about fast twist. This sharps puts them out with a 1/36 twist. Not for the faint hearted...
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
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I've got little experience with it, but the 155 pound whitail I punched with a 127LRX from my 6.5CM only made about 30 yds and he was damn near full run when I shot him. A sample of one, but I'm begining to think there's something to it. I've whacked several running Montana whitetail does (approximately the same size as your buck) over the last few years with a 14 twist 223 AI firing 40 grain Ballistic Tips. They went about the same distance.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,399 Likes: 17 |
Talk about fast twist. This sharps puts them out with a 1/36 twist. Not for the faint hearted... So it goes around twice in that barrel huh?
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've got little experience with it, but the 155 pound whitail I punched with a 127LRX from my 6.5CM only made about 30 yds and he was damn near full run when I shot him. A sample of one, but I'm begining to think there's something to it. I've whacked several running Montana whitetail does (approximately the same size as your buck) over the last few years with a 14 twist 223 AI firing 40 grain Ballistic Tips. They went about the same distance. And I've shot a bunch with 140NBT's, 140AB's, 150SST's, etc that did the same. My previous experience with Barnes was that they penetrate fantastic, but often don't bring a quick stop if bones aren't hit. This was the first deer I've punched lungs with a Barnes that basically piled up mid stride. Again, it's a sample of one, but I liked what I saw. David
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
The 40 grain Varmageddon's out of an 8" twist 223 raised my eyebrows. The difference with those bullets in an 8" twist compared to a 12" twist is eye opening. Little things not only explode more violently, they appear to get more "lift" too. I have noticed this^^^^^. But I have never noticed any difference on deer sized game...
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I seem to recall Litz discussing this awhile back. The difference in torque from one twist to another doesn't amount to much.
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Campfire Outfitter
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To be honest with you, I haven't been very impressed with monos on deer unless the velocity was pretty high (like 3500 fps or more). Maybe extra twist would help, but I've seen game shot with monos out of fast twist 22s and 6s which didn't exhibit any difference in dying compared to slower twisted versions of same.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I haven't seen it in regards to monos but I don't doubt it exists.
Monos have killed slower in my experience. God only knows how far critters would run if I wasn't pushing them at 3400+
Probably a mile or two....
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,196 |
Faster death... How do you know? The last few years I have been shooting deer at very close ranges. I always thought they were instantly dead. Well by the time I used to grab my gear and walk a hundred or two hundred yards it would be. Get to one neck shot at 30 yards and you find its a different show. I've had about half a dozen in the last couple years still breathing, blinking and with a beating heart for 2-3 minutes after being dropped from CNS hits. So...I think your forming an idea based on inconclusive data, preference seeking outcomes and a lack of information. Things die and things stop. The two ain't always the same. I'm less concerned with TOD and more concerned with instant incapacitation. For that trick only one thing is sure to do the trick. Breaking or disruption of the signals from the brain to the spinal column below C-4. The further away the bullet physically is from the vetebras the more nessasary fluid shock is. A small caliber FMJ strike ON a veterbra will work, that's same projectile through the lower neck will simply pass through. An AMAX, BT or cup\core varmint style bullet any place near the spine seems to be enough to displace massive amounts of tissue, sufficient to break the systems ability to transfer the RUN signal. Furthermore, I've found, a deer moving likely will continue moving and one standing calmly still will likely drop to the shot.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,652 Likes: 3 |
I've been playing around with faster twists the last couple of years. It may be a freak occurrence, but well, things seem to die faster...
I don't have empirical data. I've just noticed more trauma and quicker deaths. Could be a coincidence or maybe there is something to it....
Whatcha think? I agree totally - I noticed many years ago when I shot a lot more coyotes with a 1:7" and a 55 grain Vmax they would just die immediately. Like electrocution. Same bullet, same ranges, 1:12", results from coyotes are just different. I have seen it and totally agree with it.
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've been playing around with faster twists the last couple of years. It may be a freak occurrence, but well, things seem to die faster...
I don't have empirical data. I've just noticed more trauma and quicker deaths. Could be a coincidence or maybe there is something to it....
Whatcha think? My gunsmith has been building 8 twist .30cal rifles for years for long range hunting with excellent results. Superb accuracy and quick kills with 200gr SMKs in .300 Win Mag and faster cartridges. I may order a fast twist barrel for my Savage 116 when cash flow improves, just to try it out. And in last year's issue of issue of Sniper Magazine was an article by Todd Hodnett: "The Future of Twist Rates". He's been working with a 1:7.8 twist .308, and a buddy of his is using a 1:4 twist .308 with fine results. Don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but it's an interesting read. I did a quick search for the article, but couldn't find it on line. Perhaps someone with stronger google fu can find it.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Talk about fast twist. This sharps puts them out with a 1/36 twist. Not for the faint hearted... Was that doe even dead when you took that pic?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
My opinion is it's between the operators ears.
Truth is, most shooting mono's drop down a step or two in bullet weight, increasing velocity. I think it's a fairly well established reality that velocity does wonderful and noticeable things to game animals at the end of a rifle barrel.
To drop critters even quicker, couple frangible with velocity. So what you're saying is you don't shoot fast twist rifles, but you can guess. Got it!
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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I have absolutely noticed a difference when shooting rat sized vermin.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,031 Likes: 28 |
Years ago, it occurred to me that the fast twist was the reason the old 7by57 had such a reputation for quick kills. A thin-jacketed 139gr. c&c at 2800 probably threw off a lot of jacket on its way through.
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