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Think of it this way (and I'll probably be blasted here for speaking my mind):

50+ years of isolation and sanctions has not overthrown the brutal Cuban regime. The Castro brothers are still in power and the Cuban people are deprived. Eventually, the 2 brothers will be gone and then who will succeed them and what will it bring? Perhaps a new US presence in Cuba can influence this direction.

By loosening sanctions and letting a loosened trade exist, it is possible that the Cuban people will become better off and see some of the benefits of a freer system and this might lead to the eventual replacement of the government.

We opened doors to China 40 years ago and the people are better off and their government is a little less repressive today. Hopefully, a similar situation will result in Cuba.


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China is our biggest trading partner. Their communist. We do tons of business with Vietnam. We were at war with them and their communist. We do tons of business with Japan and Germany and all the other axis powers. We were at war with them. What makes Cuba any different? And I agree with djs.


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agreeing with djs usually means accepting the communist point of view. It certainly does in this instance.
There is nothing good to come from changing our stance on Cuba. Nothing.


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The difference with Cuba is it's a small enough country that we don't have an economic incentive to normalize relations, so we can stay firm on our convictions against communism (when there is no profit in doing so)

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Show me how this is going to hurt the country? Because I can't see it. Maybe I'm just too ignorant of the facts. If that's the case, I'm willing to learn.


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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
The difference with Cuba is it's a small enough country that we don't have an economic incentive to normalize relations, so we can stay firm on our convictions against communism (when there is no profit in doing so)


The difference with Cuba is that it is a small enough country and close enough to the US that within a decade, it is going to look like the Mayan Riviera and Cubans will be saying "Fidel who?" as they rake in ridiculous amounts of cash spent by fat pasty New Jersyites who caught the $99 Friday afternoon flight from Philly.

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Originally Posted by Snake River Marksman
Show me how this is going to hurt the country?

The influx of emigrees that will want to vote "D".


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Originally Posted by Snake River Marksman
Show me how this is going to hurt the country? Because I can't see it. Maybe I'm just too ignorant of the facts. If that's the case, I'm willing to learn.


so show me how this is going to benefit America. That you can't see the harm in this, should embarrass you.
There is nothing in this that helps us. There is everything in this that will harm us. Financially, diplomatically, and from a security standpoint this harms us.
Mark my words, within a week, maybe two, obama will enter into an economic pact with Cuba, and give them many Billions of YOUR tax dollars.
Cuba has spied on us for years. Just the other day, hussein traded three of their thugs, including one that was plotting to down American planes IN AMERICA, for one lefty piece of chit of ours.
The regime there is evil incarnate.
NOTHING in this is of benefit to us. Period.


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There is great bass fishing in Cuba. That will be a huge benefit.

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If the Cuban people start earning money like the Chinese did, it will slow their immigration to the US. That's a big if I know but still a possibility.

Hussein giving aid to Cuba hurts us financially i'll grant. But honestly, it's no different than the money we send to Egypt or the Dominican Republic. Entering into trade with Cuba is the same as trading with Venezuela. This is not a big deal. Not yet anyway.


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Meh...this is long overdue.

Kudos to Obama....yeah, I said it.

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Has Eva Mendes been mentioned yet?


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How would Ricky Ricardo feel about this?

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It's possible Barry will tell the truth too.


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Originally Posted by fish head
How would Ricky Ricardo feel about this?



Ohhhhh....Lucy!!!

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From Fox News this evening
Quote
Establishing ties with Cuba has been on President Obama�s bucket list for some time. Health care -- done. Amnesty for illegal immigrants -- done. Cuba -- next. This last one also has the added bonus point that it puts him right with the international left, which lionizes Castro.

And the president will go on picking off the next items on the bucket list for the next two years of his term unless Congress decides to stop him. Should they work up the gumption, lawmakers will find they can do many things to stand up for the prerogatives of the legislative branch.

Obviously, the release of the 65-year-old American hostage Alan Gross should be welcome. His �crime� was to bring computers to Jews on the island. For the last five years, he has been a victim of Cuba�s state terrorism, just as 11 million Cubans have been held hostage by their government for the past five decades.

Not only does President Obama�s action fail to advance freedom in Cuba, it throws a lifeline to Cuba�s dictators.
Exchanging three hardened Cuban spies for Gross, however, establishes an insulting moral and legal equivalency. The spies actions led to the death of an American in the 1990s, and they were duly convicted. Their release in exchange for Gross creates an incentive for rogue regimes and individual actors to kidnap Americans all over the world.

Not only does President Obama�s action fail to advance freedom in Cuba, it throws a lifeline to Cuba�s dictators, whose current supplier of funds, Venezuela, is on the ropes because of plunging oil prices. It surrenders to the demands for normalization that the Castros have been making for decades.

So what can Congress do?

Right off the bat, Congress must make it crystal clear to President Obama that he lacks the authority to lift the embargo on Cuba, allow trade to take place between the two nations, let tourists to go to Cuba to bail out the regime or give Cuba have access to capital markets. U.S. law�the Helms-Burton Act of 1996�gives the Congress power to override any action taken by the executive to lift the embargo.

In order to lift the embargo, the Cuban government would have to give the Cuban people a number of rights�of association, speech, political activity, etc.�that President Obama obviously failed to secure in his 45-minute conversation with Cuban dictator Raul Castro Tuesday.

Congress can also make clear to the president that there are statutory criteria that must be met before his administration can take Cuba off the State Department list of terrorism sponsors. The president must inform Congress that there has been a change of leadership and policies of the Cuban government and that Castro has given assurances that it will no longer support terrorist acts. Can President Obama do any of that?

Senators should also make clear that they will put a hold on any ambassador that Mr. Obama nominates to serve in Cuba unless he can guarantee that the Cuban government is no longer a threat to the United States and has decided to grant freedom to people in Cuba. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., has already said he plans to do that.

Additionally, Congress can look into the possibility of using policy riders in the upcoming DHS appropriations debate in February and the Fiscal Year 2016 appropriations process to deny the president funds for setting up relations.

Congress must act because President Obama has been completely feckless in his entire approach to Cuba. He received nothing in exchange for many substantial concessions made to the Communist regime. After five years of �negotiations� President Obama ended exactly where Raul Castro�s demands began five years ago. As Senator Marco Rubio said, President �Obama is the worst negotiator since Carter.�

Mr. Obama's statement was filled with Havana�s communist talking points, such as affirming that Cubans are poor and unfree because of the embargo, or that Cuba was a U.S. colony. None of that is true, and yet Mr. Obama said it.

Congress must act to limit the damage inherent in this Havana Giveaway. Left unchecked, Obama will simply move on to the next misguided item on his bucket list.


A native of Cuba, Mike Gonzalez escaped the Castro regime at age 12. He is a senior fellow in The Heritage Foundation�s Davis Institute for International Studies and the author of �A Race for the Future� How Conservatives Can Break the Liberal Monopoly on Hispanic Americans.�


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I can see trade normalization being a plus to American businesses but if you follow the money into Cuba where does it go?

AFAIK, virtually everything in Cuba is controlled by the communists.

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Epstein didn't kill himself.

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Well, at least now the Castros can be assured they'll have another Communist Zero to keep them company in hell.


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Quote
Exchanging three hardened Cuban spies for Gross, however, establishes an insulting moral and legal equivalency.


That equivalency was established with the GITMO sshitheads traded for a traitor.


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