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Sample of two, but it makes the point.

I worked with a guy who had a degreein, and had worked in the field of, aerospace engineering. But he was an awful cop because he was a lazy, arrogant coward.

Another partner had a GED. But he was fearless and cared more about the people he served than anyone I've seen.







A college degree requirement will weed out the unintelligent. But the things that make a good cop can't be taught. They can be honed and practiced, but not learned.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling

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Originally Posted by ltppowell
There is nothing that can be learned in a classroom that determines whether a person will be good cop, or not. Nothing.

Agreed. As with most professions, one gets good at their profession by actually working in their profession. The best way to learn how to do something is to 'do it'.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
No. We've tried that. Education never hurts anybody, but it does nothing but limit the applicants we have to choose from in LE. If anything, the age required to be a LE should be higher. Immaturity is biggest factor in most of our problems. There is nothing that can be learned in a classroom that determines whether a person will be good cop, or not. Nothing.


Exactly.


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Give me a badge and a TASER and I'll show ya'll some remarkable displays of immaturity.


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Originally Posted by heavywalker
The end game is not for the citizens to lose respect for the LEO's the end game is for the LEO's to lose all respect for the citizens.

If they can accomplish that anything will fly, gun confiscation included. Once we lose their respect the relationship is broken and the police will become a tool of the state to be used against the public.


OUtstanding point, and IMO well under way.

I have some good friends who are LEO and the general consensus is they pretty much cant wait to retire.


Originally Posted by Archerhunter

Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.
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Originally Posted by isaac
Give me a badge and a TASER and I'll show ya'll some remarkable displays of immaturity.
That gives me a warm and fuzzy thought...

If a judge ever returns a finding of frivolous lawsuit and throws a case out, defendent gets to taser the plaintiff's lawyer.

Could make a reality show out of it... Running Lawyer.

Oh, BIG BUCKS on viewership! grin

Okay, hijack over.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by ltppowell
There is nothing that can be learned in a classroom that determines whether a person will be good cop, or not. Nothing.

Agreed. As with most professions, one gets good at their profession by actually working in their profession. The best way to learn how to do something is to 'do it'.


Yep, , the best way to learn how to do brain surgery is to just get in there and dig around.

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Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by ltppowell
There is nothing that can be learned in a classroom that determines whether a person will be good cop, or not. Nothing.

Agreed. As with most professions, one gets good at their profession by actually working in their profession. The best way to learn how to do something is to 'do it'.

Yep, , the best way to learn how to do brain surgery is to just get in there and dig around.

That's right, although "get in there and dig around" is more than a little bit inaccurate. Point bein', as many have posted here, that few things take the place of experience. These guys really start learning how to be cops after they get out of the academy and actially start working as cops.


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Originally Posted by Harry M
Originally Posted by ltppowell
No. I became a cop as soon as I could.


Well see that's the point I was trying to get to. LEOs should now be required to have a BS degree in law enforcement before becoming a LEO. The course needs to be structured around today's world. Most degrees LEOs earn, (here in ma) ended up not being worth the paper they were written on. Not saying you per say so cool your jets, but they were getting credits for "life experience" and given degrees without a single bit of classroom work, none.

And BTW LEOS should NOT be allowed to be in a Union as there simply must be a way to weed out those who don't belong there.

In exchange for this I would gladly consider all Leo's skilled white collar employees and not only held to a much higher standard of conduct but to a much higher level of compensation as well.

The LEO of the future needs to be handled in this manner.


You sound like an idiot.

Most degrees everybody earns anywhere these days are not worth the paper they're written on. They're spitting out IT and business management specialists like bunnies and most of them can't boot up a computer and balance their checkbooks.

And while you're "considering" all Leo's skilled white collar employees entitled to a much higher level of compensation, are you willing to actually "pay" for it?

When was the last time you had to deal, personally, with a cop?

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Law school simply teaches one a certain way of thinking. Real life lawyering has little to nothing to do with what I learned in law school.


The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
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Originally Posted by isaac
Give me a badge and a TASER and I'll show ya'll some remarkable displays of immaturity.


I can bring mine to the hog hunt. A cool 10 spot if you taze bobby in the nuts. You still owe him after the phone incident.


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In all seriousness , 28 would be a good starting age.


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In this day and age, who in their right mind would want to be an LEO?
There are POS in every occupation. Degreed or not. I give alot of credit to the ones that really want to go into the profession knowing the consequences..... you are chitted on by the ones up above, your are under the spotlight no matter what you do, and chitted on by the ones you are trying to serve and protect.... in escence you are a reverse Chit Sandwich.... oh yea....there are people out there trying to kill them for doing their job, all the while they are thinking of how to go home alive everyday to be with their families and have a normal life like everyone else.... you want their job? I think if anyone wants to criticize them, walk a mile in their shoes and let us know how it goes.... and yes, I have several family members in LE.... State, City, and Corrections .... this world is going to hell in a hand basket...

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Originally Posted by Harry M
The problem then is you will never weed out the bad seeds.

And you are wrong about the BS degree. It takes a lot of work to get one, it takes a smart person to get one.

The length of of school weeds out the unqualified. I also believe more specific training is required.

LEO's and Unions = organized crime all day long, you can't have it.

It's time for LE to come over to the white collar/management side of the world and the public will simply need to accept the higher compensation as standard for that type of education.


The guys most frequently "weeded out of the system" are those who do have higher education. Most of them just don't have anything else. I know the business, just as probably know chemistry. The last thing the public needs (or wants) is a bunch of geek cops who never got in a fight or skipped school. They are the pricks that NOBODY likes. That's why a very large percentage are veterans.

Mac...I think (in hindsight) 25 would be a good starting point.


The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Originally Posted by Calhoun
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by Bigbuck215
No, I'm not a cop and never have been.
Wow...who'd a guessed? Thanks for the advice.
Pat, you are one reason it's"us against them". You serve us, your employer, we don't serve you, our employee. If you can't or won't take advice from your employer you ultimately will be fired by your employer one way or another.


There are something like 461,000 local police officers, and 320 million civilians in the US.

Any cop that took advice from each individual citizen out of the 750 that he serves should be fired.

You're not even the 1%, derby.


I'm still the employer like it or not. Obviously, my power is through my elected officials and not directly to the police department. But I'm still one of the employers.

That's a nice thing about the sheriff's office the sheriff is directly elected by the employers, no third party there.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Thanks for the sympathy, but cops don't get into the business expecting it to be a nice place. They just want to help people, catch bad guys or in the case of the narcissists...have power. We know the public is largely supportive of us and that the dickheads who don't are in the super minority.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by Bigbuck215
No, I'm not a cop and never have been.


Wow...who'd a guessed? Thanks for the advice.


Pat, you are one reason it's"us against them". You serve us, your employer, we don't serve you, our employee. If you can't or won't take advice from your employer you ultimately will be fired by your employer one way or another.


Okay, since you pay my salary, I'll try to act better.


Obviously, I don't live in your neck of the woods so I don't pay any part of your salary unless you're part of Obama's nationwide police force. But you get the point, the people in your area are your employers and do pay your salary.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by Harry M
The problem then is you will never weed out the bad seeds.

And you are wrong about the BS degree. It takes a lot of work to get one, it takes a smart person to get one.

The length of of school weeds out the unqualified. I also believe more specific training is required.

LEO's and Unions = organized crime all day long, you can't have it.

It's time for LE to come over to the white collar/management side of the world and the public will simply need to accept the higher compensation as standard for that type of education.


I've met plenty of stupid POS's that had degrees. Doesn't take a genius level IQ or an admirable work ethic to get one.

Depending on specific school and field of the degree of course.


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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
My check has been missing the tax dollars from Montana. Can someone forward that to me? With back pay of course, since I've been taking all this Montana advice from my "bosses" for so long.


Don't by so damn stupid. I'm referring to the people in your area just like I pay part of the paycheck of the police in my area.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Police should be able to do to as they wish when dealing with any civilian. That is the consensus among the officers here and on sites that cater to police officers. As the officers here have stated, only police should have input on police work. That is why you see bad officers who go against that concept get treated like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

while brave officers like these:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-tot-burned-swat-raid-article-1.2050396

are welcome in any department or LE function in the nation.


"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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