Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Garand vs. M16/M4: battlefield stoppages

I would imagine the reason the 1911s were "junky" was because most of them were well used. A new or slightly used 1911A1 is okay as a combat arm for the distance they were designed to be used at.

FWIW Dad joined after Pearl Harbor, and was identified as a skilled mechanic, so he spent the war keeping B17's flying. He liked his 03 and qualified expert with it. At some point someone noticed the ace mechanic with the 03, and requisitioned it and gave him an M1 carbine. He was pissed about it, disliked the carbine, and so in his words, "pulled rank with the armorers" (he was a MSgt by then) and demanded a Thompson. He liked the Thompson.

Funny. We were taught in Marine Corp History class that Guadalcanal was the first battle in which Marines used the Garand,

I remember, 'cause it was one of the test questions.

I was about to post the same thing

Ummm, ok. If I have to go to battle, I hope all my enemies think like you.

My 30-06 turns your "cover" into concealment. Bye-bye

Curdog, the Marines landed at Guadalcanal equipped with the '03, but by the end of the campaign were equipped with M1s.

Some M1s were appropriated early from Army units before general issue. The firepower available was seen as a usable advantage and the Marines picked up or stole every one they could.

My experience is that M1s can suffer feeding issues if not equipped with milspec enbloc clips. I had several M1s, and I chased a feeding malfunction in one until I was going crazy, thinking some part was out of spec. I had gotten this rifle as a non-functioning piece of junk and had literally replaced everything except the receiver, front sight, trigger and safety. Timing was good. But I kept getting a 7th round stoppage. I then tried the suspect clips in another Garand I have known to be a reliable rifle, and had the same problem. Measuring the clip dimensions revealed that the opening on the malfunctioning clips was less than the reliable one, so I simply pulled them open (not easy to do) and the issue disappeared.

The clips were new, too.

It's not easy to top off the rifle if partially emptied. It can be done, but it's a two-handed affair. And like any other weapon that depends on springs, those need to be occasionally replaced.

It is very fast to reload when emptied, though. And the ammo is much bigger, heavier, and more powerful. 200 rounds of M1 ammo in clips is getting on the heavy side.

It is a much more robust weapon than the M16. You can literally beat someone to death with one and not hurt the damn thing.

It's not as accurate as the M16, but accurate enough for the type of battle infantry typically engages in.

In todays combat environment a bolt gun is a good way to get yourself killed.
It aint no fantasy where you always have the high ground and targets in the open.

Accuracy of an M1?? 100 yds,prone rested on my pack. Service grade Springfield M1 using Fed GM match

I have noticed that. Shoot a gong with an AR, then grab an M1.

We also shot some empty 20-lb freon bottles, and the AR would rock them, but the M1 (and 7.62X51) would knock them over.

Dirt back stops suffer more, too.

My dad as well as every other W-2 or Korean war vet I've ever known despised the 1911. There were a handful of those guns left over from WW-1, but most were new production guns. It was Coopers fictional writings after the Korean war that created the myth of the 1911 and the 45 acp.

If you want absolute reliability in a battle rifle than a controlled feed bolt action rifle is it.

However, a good compromise between firepower and reliability is a good heavy duty semi-auto rifle like the M-1 Garand or the M1A1 (M-14).

That's what I was trying to get across.

Or your shoulder.

What did they hate about them? I want to know. I've used a 1911 for a good part of my adult life. A 1911 used in the distance they were designed for work very well.

It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

i doubt they were new production as far as i know other than the recent guns all military 1911s were made in 1945 and before.......hell of alot of the ones issues in Korea and Vietnam prolly should have been scrapped long before......

I believe they still issued one 03A3 per squad due to a grenade launcher issue. Meaning one was not developed in enough time for the Garand.



Travis

After initial sight in with some mixed bag ammo, this is the first group I shot with the Garand I gifted my dad.

Hornady 150gr InterCock and H4895.



But I gotta say, most AR's will do the exact same thing.



Travis

One was, but it didn't allow for use of ball ammo. The Springfield grenade launcher attachment did.

We, amazingly, still had BARs in the ship's armory in the early 70s and I got to shoot them a few times. One could quickly grow fond of that weapon.

We had similar discussion on WWII reenacting forum. One of the things that was brought up was not many 03-A3's made it out of the continental US. Most used outside were plain old 03's. Some A3's did make it out (and A4's naturally). But the bulk were 03's.

Several hundred thousand 03's and M1917's were given to both the 1eme and 2eme Free French Divisions after the Anfa Accord in 1942. And used up the boot of Italy as Operation Dragoon in South of France.