Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Are AR-15's really that much more accurate than the Mini - 14?

Not really from what I've read. That's according to Gun Tests magazine over the years.
They've tested lots of AR-15's. As in 13 of them since 2007, as well as 2012, 2013 and 2014. Retail prices ran from $845 to $1995. Most of them in the $1000-$1200 range.
How did they shoot ? Better than the two tests for the Mini 14, one of which was a 7.62X39, but not the 1 MOA vs. 4 MOA as some always post.
Using the same Hornady TAP 60-62 gr. ammo, the $1150 Stag Arms 15L shot 1.7 inches at 50 yds. w/ iron sights for five rds. The $1054 DPMS RFA2-AP4A Patrol did 2.2 inches. The $1534 Bushmaster Patrolman's Carbine shot 1.5 inches and the $1554 S&W M&P 15T shot 1.4 inches.
The $894 Ruger KMini 14/5 shot 1.8 inches. Again, all were shot with iron sights at 50 yds. multiple times.
Moving up to the varmit style AR-15's, and using a scope, and match quality ammo, the AR's did do better. But none did under MOA. The $1639, 10.5 lb. Rock River Arms LAR-15 Varmit A4 shot right at a 1.1 inch average with Black Hills 77 gr. Sierra Matchking HP's. But with Federal 223 62 gr. FMJ ammo, it shot 2.4 iches. With TulAmmo 223 Rem 55 gr. ammo, it shot 2.2 inches. And this with a Bushnell 4-16X50 Elite 4200 scope.
BTW, when they tested a $966, Ruger K-Mini Thirty-P/20, the found it shot a good bit better than 4 MOA. They got an average group size of 1.26 inches with WW USA 123 FMJ ammo, .85 inches with American Eagle 124 gr. FMJ ammo, and .75 inches with Wolf 122 gr. HP's. Again, these are averages of five shot groups at 50 yds. with iron sights.
Ah, yes. E

a 1.8 inch group at 50 yards, TFF. I have a cheap POS colt6720 that will shoot 5 Sierra 65's into less than an inch at 100 and not 50 yards. I cannot recollect many that I have owned in the AR mold that would not shoot an inch or better with decent ammunition....wait I did have a MP10 that was 1.5-2 inches but I sold it. Get the Mini 14, I am sure you will love it! Post us some 50 yard groups! Everyone in this world should own a Volvo, a 454 Chevy motor, a jet boat and a Mini 14 at some time in his life.

First of all, a Colt 6720 is not a "cheap POS" rifle. They are the gold standard AR-15's. Second, you are talking about handloads, not standard, good quality factory ammo. You also didn't say if you used a scope or iron sights on your Colt.
Anybody with much time at a loading bench knows that handloads can make a big difference. E

Wait, while I make some popcorn.

How can you get your point across if you don't exaggerate?

Oh darn, I forgot to do that. E

I had a Mini-14. have two ARs now. I would buy another Mini-14. I like 'em for what they are, but yea, my ARs are more accurate.

6720 is a utility rifle with a chrome lined barrel. Made for work not accuracy.

About 20 years ago I started fiddlin with a mini-14. I was a true believer. After this and that and the other thing I tried, I just gave up. It is what it is. And I never did like the way the magazines wobble and lock up; just don't like it.

If Ruger would make it take an AR magazine, if they put a heavy barrel and gas block designed for the heavy barrel, I am sure it would become an honest 2moa or better. Ruger really failed with the mini-14. That little carbine had a LOT of potential. I know they keep making money with it, so in that sense they did not fail, but I always thought that little carbine could have been a REAL rifle.

WAY more accurate comparing apples to apples.

That mini 30 must have been the most accurate one to ever come off the line.

No way in hell a mini platform beats an ar platform any day across the board.

This

Can't play tinker toys with a Mini-14.

I would shoot the posted factory load in an AR15 against your mini 14 without worry.

Hornady TAP 60-62 gr. ammo,

but hey I love that you want to buy a mini 14 and actively encourage others to buy the little marvel as well. I also complement guys that shoot 4 inch 25 yard groups...good job!
.

don't get me wrong! I actively encourage you and everyone else to purchase a Mini 14, they are GREAT guns.

anyone is welcome to buy one, I think they are neat. But I actually quit my desire after using a couple. And then got to shoot an M14 and a few M1As and bought M1As instead and have been MUCH happier to have them, my wife and I, rather than an expensive innaccurate wanna be. Expensive meaning lots of cash for no accuracy.

This place is always good for chuckle... and I didn't even have to visit the Humor forum tonight. Well done.

This.

kwg

I'll put my Les Baer AR-15 Super Varmint up against ANY Ruger Mini 14 in the country. Never seen a Mini 14 that would put all 5 bullets in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Doubt I ever will.

I've owned several Mini 14's since High School. Never owned one that would shoot less than a 2" group with Factory Ammo OR Handloads. Most of the old ones I've owned were lucky to shoot a 5" gathering at 100 yards. I know the new Mini 14's are now supposed to be more accurate. And that's fine if that's what you like to shoot. For me, though, only accurate guns are worth owning. JMO, though

The secret to a really accurate mini14 is to get the barrel as hot as you can. Shoot say 400 to 500 round as fast as possible, then right before the stock catches fire throw it in a barrel of water. This will stress relief the barrel and help tighten the groups up. Plus groups should be twenty rounds at five paces for the best possible chance to get five on target.

Better than or as good as any AR I have seen ran over by a truck. LOL LOL oh GOD LOL.

Same distance, same shooter, same ammo, both with factory stock rifles with iron sights guess which one came from the AR?


Mike

Interesting observations.

I have a new Mini that shoots about as well as their test sample's did. I have an old Mini that shoots about that well too but I poured money on it to get it there. They both suffer from groups widening when they heat up.

I do like using them to hunt with better than an AR. They also seem more reliable. They are a whole lot harder to modify into a target gun than an AR. I am not sure that the cost to do so is that much different.

The Mini-30 results are so different from my experiences that I almost want to try a new on but I swore off.

My own AR seems to do better than their test examples with iron sights or with a scope. The one my youngest son built last winter shoots about like their test rifles.

I have a friend who has several AR's. He has at least one, a CAR that
exhibits terrible accuracy. About like an early Mini-30 [4-12" groups, worse when hot].

I see this argument often
I don't see them the same in many ways except caliber
I like them both in different ways

If I want to be super accurate grab my 527 or predator
Hank

Got a buddy that feels the same way you do, Oh.

Haven't bought a beer after a range session in years.

Wouldn't own a 14, but respect the $ they've saved me.

Why is it that the people who make money and careers shooting .223s all shoot ARs? All of them. Every single one of them.

Must be a Jewish banking cartel fluoride conspiracy.

The AR-15 is mentioned in the Protocols of Zion, and everyone knows Stoner was a Mason-Jew-Bilderberger.

Ahem, I really did have a Mini-14 that would do MOA. Unfortunately I believed it to be illegal in California, and sold it before I moved there (they weren't )

And I have seen one 5.56 AR that honestly would do only 3.5MOA before I replaced the barrel. And a .300 Blackout that would do 1.75MOA only with handloads.

But in general, I think the AR on average will outshoot Minis, and will be a more ergonomic rifle. I still have an old Mini, and one day I'll do some more work with it.

And I once knew an ordinary looking 16 year old girl who could bench press 160 lbs.

Generally, the Mini is likely the most inaccurate rifle you can buy new.

And I don't even mean guys who have to shoot ARs (military, etc.). But guys whose job it is to shoot .223s as quickly, accurately and reliably as possible. None of them choose to shoot Minis. None.

I own 2 minis, love them for what they are. They will not ever be as accurate as an AR, IMO. I had one back in the 80's, as the old saying goes, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

The newer ones are much better. I took a chance on one like 6 years ago when it was near impossible to find anything chambered in 223/556. I was pleasantly surprised. It is not a bench rest quality rifle by any means and it would not be my first choice on a prairie dog shoot. A SHTF, grab and go rifle, oh hell yes. But that's because I don't own any ARs anymore(yet).

They myth that Mini 14s are more reliable than than a quality AR platform rifle is simply that, myth. We still have the odd Mini show up at patrol rifle schools, and to a fault, every one of them has issues when run hard. There is nothing about a Mini that lends itself to more reliability. Everything about the gun is more complex.

I dont quite grasp why they still make the stupid things, and who buys them.

I owned a Mini 14 once. Bought it for a song on one side of the gun show and sold it to some one who really liked that funky folding stock before I left the same show at a nice profit. Still have my Ar's....

my best one was one I bought in 1977 or 78 for $135.00, the next one a SS version with folding stock I bought in 81 or 82 would not hit a 55 gallon barrel at 100 yards with 55 grain FMJ ammunition. Fool me once shame on you, fool me 4 times shame on me...

granted I love the handiness of the mini if it were $499 and an honest 2MOA gun then I would buy one tomorrow.

I have a friend trapped in California who dumped a lot of money into a Mini because that was all he could do at the time. I think the best it ever did was about 1.5-2 moa after a barrel change, new stock, and a barrel tuner. Even then it would hold it for about 20 rounds and start going all over the place.

I had the joy of zeroing about 75 patrol rifles for an unenlightened agency that thought you could just throw them in cars like a shotgun. Ever single one (collapsible stock carbines with chrome pencil barrels) had the zero confirmed by shooting less than a 2moa group at 100 yards with duty ammo.

I admit liking the looks and even the handling of the mini but they just dont perform as well as they should. It is the same reason that kept me from getting an M-14 scout, two much money for an outdated system.

A friend many years ago had a Shilen put on his. In the end IIRC he dropped about 1000 bucks into the gun, and with handloads it would shoot under MOA. Fairly reliably too.

This was late 80s.

I just don't see these days paying for a mini and dumping another grand into it, to make it what almost any AR is capable of with the right handloads.

Then there is the adaptability portion of the AR platform too.

Even the M1As we bought that were rack grade, would shoot sub moa with the right ammo.
Granted tuning them cost a 500 buck stock, and I forget... probably 2-300 upgrades plus a new Shilen barrel, and 150 bucks of bedding to get htem really solid reliable repeatable guns.

But I've yet to have seen a stock mini that would shoot MOA or just under as is. They are probably as rare as an AR that shoots over MOA wiht the right ammo also.

The debate will rage on
I have a couple stock Mini 30s my favorite is wood/SS

Its pretty accurate it does string them up when it gets hot
First couple shots really good

but I giggle like a little girl everytime I shoot it
Plus I can take kids up and for 5.00 a box let them shoot with no meters in the ammo can

Just take it out and have fun

Hank

What Jeff said. The Mini-14/30 platform is crap

The Mini 14 will soon be dead and gone,the AR has advanced by far more and it controls the market.I've shot better groups with pistols at 50 yards than any Mini I've shot.
Surprised Ruger is still trying...

I like the mini for how it handles. It just feels right, and some guys prefer the look and action. That being said, my best mini is worse than my worst AR. In fact, my best mini doesn't even equal the groups I get from either of my iron sighted Winchester M94's. I have an old and a new mini and they group the same.

The mini is a heartbreaker. It will throw out a good three shot group now and then. Maybe even a good five shot group. Just enough to string you along into thinking you may have the gun figured out (of course, the good groups are a statistical anomaly). Then the next group will be 6-8 inches. I am convinced when mini guys report their group size they are reporting the single best 3-shot group they ever got out of an entire case of ammo.

In addition, it will try its hardest to ruin whatever class you have on the rifle, as well as the windshield of your truck if you park close enough the brass can hit it. Minimum safe distance from the ejection port of a mini is about 15 yards. Once I actually embedded a piece of brass into a wood post as it was ejected by the mini.

In addition, my most reliable mini is less reliable than my least reliable AR. Both of my mini's have had to go back to ruger, where the replaced the bolt assembly in each. I have no idea why. They seem to run now, but who knows? All that being said, I do have a soft spot for the mini (when I don't want to wrap it around a tree). I think the mini best serves in the same role as an iron sighted .30-30. Think of it as a model 94 firing a weaker cartridge that goes bang more times before it needs to be reloaded. And is less accurate. And is probably less reliable. And is more expensive.

I got sucked into the 'new minis are better than the old ones' and bought a new one. I tell my friends that was doubling down on stupid. All this comes from a guy that still wants to like the mini more than an AR. It just hard to spend more on a mini and get so much less than even a cheap AR. I plan to not triple down on stupid. As always, your mileage may vary (but probably won't).

The Mini-14 weedles you - it tricks you into putting money into it. Give me back my dollar!

I will comment on old Minis, with the stupid slick plastic buttplate, that if you at least glue some rubber strips to the plate, so it doesn't squirt around on your shoulder, they will shoot better.

I have one of the old 180 series rifles. I'm getting tempted to fire it up, just to see what it will really do

The AR today is no doubt a better rifle for hard use, after its decades of development. It didn't have that reputation, though, in the 1970's, and many thought a scaled down M14-style action would have superior reliability. Bill Ruger was no dummy at judging his markets, so it's easy to see why the gun was popular at first.

this!

I have a Rock river arms Lar 15 and I have shot groups as small as .295 with a handload using Benchmark powder and the Sierra 52 gr hp.

Unlikely. Not sure why, but people go nut for them

Really enjoying this thread. It has all been said here about the comparison.

My 1 pristine safe queen mini-14 is never going to shoot like my AR's.. Ever. I came to grips with that a long time ago. Honestly, if I was getting 1.5-2'' groups in a 5 or 10 shot group out of my mini-14, I'd think I died and went to heaven.

I bought the mini off a TX State Trooper in '05, headed for the bayou just after Wilma hit NO and the LA coastline. At the time, I bought it for the M14 open-bolt cool factor, its pristine condition, and to bolster 5.56 friendly platforms.

I've never been sorry for a nickel I spent on my mini. It has functioned flawlessly. I still own it for the reasons I bought it, beauty, fun factor, and SHTF factor.

For $500, I've got a completely outfitted little 5.56 lead slinger that sits in its own bugout bag with multiple magazines and 300 rds of ammo.


But.. if I am finding society is breaking down, I can put a mini in a family member, neighbor, or friend's hand.

I love my mini for what it is.

The problem with that idea is that he probably won't be able to hit anything with it under about 25 yards and that will be iffy.

To answer the original question, for most of the life of the Mini 14, "yes, they are that much more accurate than the Mini,". About any store bought AR is adequately accurate for whatever purpose short of competition and many are accurate for that task too, dependent upon the type of competition.

The caveat is that supposedly the new Mini's are more accurate. I don't know what year it changed because to me it makes no difference. They weren't accurate enough for many years so lots of guys got soured on them. Combine that with the fact that most times you can buy an AR as cheap and possibly cheaper than the Mini and you have a situation that is "why?". The only possible reason I can think of is the guys that just hate the aesthetics of an AR and those guys are dying off at an alarming rate since most of us alive now have been seeing the AR since we were kids.

Dying off at an alarming rate, lol. That gets a GFY. Lol. I am under 50.

I got a good chuckle, thanks.

I have no objective evidence of it, but my guess is that a lot of the guys that hate the looks of any black gun are the pre-Vietnam era generations that are going fast. Most of us alive today grew up seeing the M-16 on TV in one war or another, if not using it. It's not that there aren't some thirty and forty somethings that don't like AR's. I just have the feeling that most of that crowd are older.

That's a good point one of my hunting partners is 73 and no ARs for him. Even at 73 he is always looking for the new and improved.
He says his wife doesn't want him to have one but I think if he wanted one he would have 3
He has Minis

Hank

Most of the older guys I knew didn't care for them. They prefer a 1911 to a Glock also.

dang them new fangled guns...

I still do... prefer a 1911

It's easy to forget, but until late 1980's our "gun culture" was in a sort of Victorian era; Viz. black rifles, riot guns, concealed carry and referring to firearms as weapons was widely frowned upon.

Sadly despite the plethora of high capacity rifles, not many can shoot them who buys them.

True that.
Old timer with Win '94 might trump pimple-face with AR-15.

Many can shoot them, but few can shoot them accurately enough... LOL.

I remember a match once, it was something in regards to muzzies and 9/11...

They put up a silhouette on a 1x2 all camo'd up with burka and such IIRC. It was after a highpower match.

The ticket was to push it up out of the pits sideways then face the firing line, and walk/run it down for X amount of seconds at 300 yards. Then turn it sideways to withdraw and pull down.

I had a pretty firm 300 yard zero. Winner was most hits... YOu could have a coach...

Iron sights sitting. I got into an NPA that was at the end of the "run" and then swung over to where it started so that I would be pulled by the sling and NPA wanting to go to the end...

Coach gave me a lead correction after the 1st and 2nd shots, but then I had that sight picture memorized and kept after the target. I knew I was close to the end of the run and my 30 round mag with 28 rounds in it. As it turned sideways to withdraw I could still see it, and so fired the last 2 rounds in the mag...

About that time it looked really weird as it dissappeared into the pits.

Finally comes back up by radio I had hit the 1x2 a few times center and as they turned it I hit it at least once sideways which snapped it in half.

Accounting for the miss from the snapped target, IIRC I had 26 hits on the target in the exposure which easily won that match.

One of the "kids" holding the target went onto MTU school with the army and was on teh big team even last I heard years ago. He was laughing, he said he was watching and as he walked now then then splinters would fly so he had to quit looking up... but had this weird floppy feeling as he pulled it down, and then realized I"d just hit a 3/4 wide stick at 300 yards sitting with irons....

In fairness, most of Ruger's rifles were known for spotty accuracy until the early 1990's - then they started hammer-forging their own barrels, and the accuracy of all their rifles improved thereafter. In particular the Minis got heavier barrels, too, at some point in their production, but I forget when. They also started using rubber buttplates at some point, which stay in one spot on your shoulder, which also helps.

I can't think of any thing a Mini can do, that an AR can't do as well. But there are a few things an AR can do, which the Mini also does well - like say fire five rounds at a running yote.

I am poor with irons anymore, however your in a different galaxy from whom I speak....25 yard shooters who are high 5'in it with 4 inch groups at the local gun range.

One thing I thought the mini did better than the AR was swinging it after running jack rabbits, I would start firing and see the bullets hitting behind it in the snow, on the 3rd round the mini would catch up the snow would turn red...

I didn't say I was anywhere near as capable anymore either. LOL. No clue, have not shot a match since 2004 or 2005 basically.

RE a mini as capable of dumping rounds as an AR, well yes, but I'd rather have smaller groups than larger when doing anything.... espcially moving targets as we alreayd have an uncontrollable factor there to start with.

As to swinging smoother on game, taht well could be.

All I know is I did fair with the AR on multiple moving pigs most times I had the chance.

Still want a helo pig hunt bad... just haven't made the time or spent the money to do it. Actually still hoping a friend buys a helo, as he flies them... and finds some folks with a need to thin herds.... would be a blast literally.
Pretty sure I'd stick with the AR though, rather than buy a mini. LOL

I think the 4 mini's I tried cured me of wanting another rifle made by Ruger, if that wasn't enough Bill Ruger's sucking the political weine sure did

Bills traiterous escapades did it for me in the 80s... Right quick.

Thankfully it was before I started an old goal, of having a 77 in every caliber made....I know, I wouldn't ever have bought enough to make a difference from them, but I damn sure won't now.

Quite a few of their guns still have some appeal to me, but will never be bought, unless used as a last resort.

But so many of them are big and clunky to me that it makes no real sense....

I have not bought anything from Ruger since and hell will freeze over before I buy one again

Pretty cold up your way tonight isn't it. LOL.

I hear you. Since that happened I had a Ruger#1 given to me as a gift. Figured that wasn't too bad.

-12 with a 40mph wind, you could say cold. Going to get bad in the morning

Ruger don't bother me anymore, Bill is gone, they sell everything anyone else does. I have a few of their products, the ones that make some sense.

I've had a couple of Mini 14's and they have been consistently inaccurate. 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards was about as good as I could do with either of them.

I decided to try out a new Mini 30 after they made the change to the heavier barrel because I really like the way they feel as compared to an AR. 4 to 6 inch groups were the norm. After a bunch of add ons that were supposed to cure all the Mini 30's problems, the groups were down to about 3 inches at 100 yards. I bedded the fore end to the gas block. That seemed to make a bigger improvement in the accuracy than anything else I did. Groups hover between 1.5 and 2 inches now. To me that is fine for a Mini 30 with the ammo I shoot and what I use it for.

I like the handiness and way the Ruger Mini's feel, but have never owned an AR that shot as bad as a Mini 14/30 does. If they are performing to the design standards that Ruger set, then Ruger should have never made it possible to mount a scope on them.

you are spot on, I called smith and wesson about their MP10 and told them I was getting 1.5-2 inch groups like that, and they said that was about right...its in the design of the gun. The Ruger SR762 I have has yet to shoot a bad group even when its crappy factory trigger is installed of course the GAME CHANGING DPMS Gen2 was another story entirely.

I shot a TC renegade probably 200 rounds or more testing this and that for elk loads... and yes I"m a hair OT...

Would shoot about 4 inches best case at 100 wiht irons.

I sent it back to them.

They sent it back with a fired target, about 4 inches at 100, saying it was working perfectly and grouping fine...

Promptly bought a green mountain tube, and was down right at an inch wiht 565 grain slugs and 100 grains of powder... no tinkering require....

tag

Yes: out of the box AR 1-2.5"; Mini-14 2-4+". A better barrel and trigger puts the AR into good bolt action level of accuracy.

I have a cheap ass DPMS AR upper with a plum crazy composite lower with a RRA match trigger. It will do this all day long with cheap american eagle 50gr varmint tips. HAD 2 mini's, never better than 2.5-3 moa with either. (one had the trigger done).

Triggers don't make a gun more accurate.. never have. They make it easier to shoot it better though.

But I won some medals at Camp Perry once upon a time with about an 7.5/8 pound trigger... long story there, but the M1A when auto on me and we just drug a strip of emory in there to get it safea nd back to to passing the weight issue...

Still can't recall seeing an AR that would not do MOA with some type of ammo... even the cheapest POS ones... One had to be shot wtih 40 grain though...

NEVER seen a mini shoot MOA.