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What is the lowest serial number that you have ever personally seen on an 1895?
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�Can we move this along?" a bored voice stated. "I have places to be and people to shag." ![[Linked Image]](http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/1899Sav/1464-1.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/1899Sav/557b_2.jpg)
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Well Arthur Savages first rifle still exists, SN 1, i seen it a while back  but its not a 1895.
Last edited by Loggah; 01/18/15.
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lowest number ? or date of mfg ? I have 2/21/96
plab
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steve and steve do you guys know the MFG date on those ???
plab
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3551 1895 A
Jan 29/97 - Shipped Feb 12/98
To Baker & Hamilton, San Francisco
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No I don't. About the only way to get that would be to get a letter on it--right?
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it seams that way. my gun ser# 5266 mfg 2/21/96
earlier than BillR's gun but higher number
plab
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322X. one of Dicks guns, octagon barrel, Jan 26, 1896, earliest I've seen yet, even my military trials rifle is later than that.
24 hour sarcastic S.O.B.
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659x, accepted 5/18/96, shipped 9/29/97,.. half oct. sat for a while.
"Every day above ground is a good day."
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Early SN for me is 3709 mfg "completed in circa March of 1897".
Earliest date of mfg is 5369 mfg Feb 27, 1896.
Others of early mfg; 5513 mfg Mar 11, 1896
5570 mfg Mar 10, 1896
6787 mfg May 28, 1896
Also have 5704 which I need a letter for. Also need letters for a couple later 1895's.
John
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Lowest serial number is 317x.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Earliest date of mfg is 5369 mfg Feb 27, 1896.
John, am I on your ignore list? I just posted one of Dicks guns as being lettered as Jan 26, 1896 two posts above you. Seems strange though that most of the early guns were in the 5000's and yet Dicks was in the 3000's and it's the earliest I've got in my records.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Joe, I think he was saying the earliest he's seen or had is 5369.
The thread isn't about what is the oldest one.. it's about what's the oldest that folks have personally had.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joe,
I don't have an "ignore" list. But if I did......I.. no, wait.
Just replying to OP with the lowest SN I own (have personally seen). And also trying to demonstrate that earliest serial number doesn't necessarily mean earliest date of manufacture.
Most of the earlier mfg dates I own and have personally seen are in the 5,000's I believe. Obviously Savage did not mfg chronologically by serial number. Same story with the pistols for sure.
John
Last edited by cmhjohn; 01/21/15.
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The thread isn't about what is the oldest one.. it's about what's the oldest that folks have personally had.
Ahha, then maybe I should read the whole thread, haha. My personal earliest is an 1895A 5882 accepted on April 2, 1896. On another note while looking through my letters I noticed J.C. made a small mistake. I have a gun here lettered by him as being accepted Dec 31, 1896 and shipped on Aug 7, 1896, how the heck did that happen?
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322X. one of Dicks guns, octagon barrel, Jan 26, 1896, earliest I've seen yet, even my military trials rifle is later than that. I have it as 1-26-1897. All the 3xxx I have in the data are late 1896 to early half of 1897.
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
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Thanks, I'll fix that in my data.
Maybe I should just get a good nights sleep and try this Savage stuff again tomorrow, I ain't exactly batting 1000 today now am I?
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Thanks, I'll fix that in my data.
Maybe I should just get a good nights sleep and try this Savage stuff again tomorrow, I ain't exactly batting 1000 today now am I? ![[Linked Image]](http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w621/rickruetten/avatar7_1_zps25946115.gif) 
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3355, accepted 18 NOV 1896, shipped 30 SEP 1898...SRC. Sat for a while.
6525, accepted 12 MAY 1896, shipped 14 SEP 1896...Octagon Rifle. Didn't set long...
I should get some more letters!
An armed society is a polite society.
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Joe,
Re JC's letter confusion. I think it demonstrates that JC is only human. (like the rest of us). I'm sure he'll fix/correct the letter if you ask him to. I'm frankly amazed he doesn't make more errors given the frailness of the records he has. It is also very possible that the original entry in the ledger was entered wrong. Some of the writing he has to read is barely/marginally even legible. I know from talking with him that he is absolutely meticulous about supplying only correct information. That is exactly as it should be.
John
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No I don't need it fixed, I know it was just a typo.
I do have copies of ledger pages here and ya, they're very hard to make out.
Another thing that had me real puzzled was that one of my 1895's is nickel plated and has a 30" barrel yet my letter mentioned nothing about it, you would think that it would have definitely said something about that in the ledgers.
I didn't know anything about the pistol serial numbers being off as well on dates but I've only lettered my 1915 .380 so far, maybe I should letter the other 3.
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NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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I'm an accumulator of old bibles and I'll testify that 100+ year old books that have been opened an closed many thousands of times do not take it well.
And the cursive writing style is not the same today as it was. Old entries in the family bible are often difficult to make out even though I know what they say.
I sent for two more letters this morning...
An armed society is a polite society.
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With all the data collection in the world,,,,,,,,,,,,we should thank our lucky stars we have him and his books.........
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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With all the data collection in the world,,,,,,,,,,,,we should thank our lucky stars we have him and his books......... Absolutely true....
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Thanks for posting Steve. That's a real eye opener. Hope the dehumidifier is running down there. It would be a substantial project but those things could be digitally archived and then put in a fireproof vault for safe keeping.
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need to get about 30 lettered but not going to happen with CANuck dollar so low, should have done it when it was on par.  norm
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden .
If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
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need to get about 30 lettered but not going to happen with CANuck dollar so low, should have done it when it was on par. norm What's up with that? I'm on the fence right now to pay the balance of the Anticosti trip. It's like a buck and a quarter to one right now. GEEZ.........
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Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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Canuck dollar is at about .80 on the U.S. dollar right now.
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LBK,
That photo of JTC and the ledgers is priceless! Hang onto that one for posterity for sure. If and when you get over there again I would love to see photos of the pistol ledgers. Thanks.
John
Last edited by cmhjohn; 01/21/15.
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None of the pictures I have, Savage related, are going anywhere. Those ledgers are "priceless"...........  I just noticed the date on that picture. It was on my birthday. How neat is that?
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Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
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Perhaps to stop the handling and resulting deterioration , a handheld page scanner could be bought and the slow gentle process of scanning them page by page could begin to save the precious resource.
I don't have any experience with them, but have seen them. They look handy and relatively inexpensive.
Just a thought to help in the short term.
Then maybe a "crowd source" money raising event to get them professionally preserved, book by book as the money allows. If thats not possible, maybe just the worst ones get done.
Last edited by WillARights; 01/21/15.
Trump HAD the World, ", Trump saw our children, "
Trump saw a way to make a brighter day so he started giving
There was a choice he was making, he was saving our own lives
Its true he made a brighter day for you and me. --Trump WINS 2016
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They were Roe's ledgers, then Johns, if they wanted them preserved they would have.
Old school boys are stubborn, but more power to them.
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LBK,
That photo of JTC and the ledgers is priceless! Hang onto that one for posterity for sure. If and when you get over there again I would love to see photos of the pistol ledgers. Thanks.
John John, In the pictures, the first 11 ledgers on the top shelf are all pistols.
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Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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They were Roe's ledgers, then Johns, if they wanted them preserved they would have.
Old school boys are stubborn, but more power to them. Exactly correct................
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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The old "let's put 'em on the computer discussion"...
Don't go there! Oh God, not that!! You'd think the world was collapsing.
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Didn't know I was tap dancing on already flat toes.
Regardless of who they belong to, or belong to in the future when handed down, they're crumbling and may become a lost resource without help, which would impact us all.
The sooner they are scanned, the better regarding handling.
Temporary preservation by hand held scanner to limit actual handling is just an option. Presenting the options available is good; the owner may not know the options available out there, and its a herculean, dedicated task to even think about doing it themselves.
The costs can be quite expensive for professional preservation help.
Last edited by WillARights; 01/21/15.
Trump HAD the World, ", Trump saw our children, "
Trump saw a way to make a brighter day so he started giving
There was a choice he was making, he was saving our own lives
Its true he made a brighter day for you and me. --Trump WINS 2016
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No, what it boils down to is that they're John's and if he wanted to throw them in the woodstove he could.
I'd love to see them protected in some way but it's not my place to say how or when.
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Regardless of who they belong to, or belong to in the future when handed down, they're crumbling and may become a lost resource without help, which would impact us all. That idea has already caused enough problems. Learn to live and let live. Maybe the next Savage Historian, and I'm not hoping for John's early demise when I say that, will think differently.
Go tell the Spartans,Travelers passing by,That here,Obedient to their laws we lie.
I'm older now but I'm still runnin' against the wind
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That throws the discussion into the realm of where does one draw the line when it comes to personal property and "for the good of all". An extreme example would be, if a private collector owned the original Declaration of Independence would you vote for the government to seize it by right of eminent domain? By the same token, would it be better to let the collector own it and make copies for all to enjoy, or the government to own it and make copies for all to enjoy (like has been done)? Quite a moral/ethical dilemma, indeed.
If I owned the records I would do exactly as JC has done, but I would bequeath them to someone who would promise to keep them available for the enlightenment of collectors, and who would also promise to have them scanned for posterity's sake. Unless they are stored in a world class archival manner they can't help but continue to deteriorate. 'Tis a physical law of nature. The custodian of records such as this have a heavy responsibility in that regard, and if they can't afford archival preservation and digital scanning then a means by which to achieve that needs to be found. Just my personal thoughts on the matter. A lot of late night alcohol fueled discussions/arguments with a buddy who is a conservator with the Smithsonian shaped that opinion.
None of us is immortal, and it behooves each of us to think ahead to the next generations or this hobby (passion) we hold so dear will wither on the vine.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 01/22/15.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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With that in mind, it would be best for the documents themselves if they were handled less. That would require moving them to another format to preserve what's left of the originals.
Which leads us to- Soooooo, every one that orders a letter, is contributing to their further degradation until such a time that they are moved to digital. Will you all stop ordering letters to preserve the records, "for us all"?
Last edited by Fireball2; 01/22/15.
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That throws the discussion into the realm of where does one draw the line when it comes to personal property and "for the good of all". An extreme example would be, if a private collector owned the original Declaration of Independence would you vote for the government to seize it by right of eminent domain? By the same token, would it be better to let the collector own it and make copies for all to enjoy, or the government to own it and make copies for all to enjoy (like has been done)? Quite a moral/ethical dilemma, indeed.
If I owned the records I would do exactly as JC has done, but I would bequeath them to someone who would promise to keep them available for the enlightenment of collectors, and who would also promise to have them scanned for posterity's sake. Unless they are stored in a world class archival manner they can't help but continue to deteriorate. 'Tis a physical law of nature. The custodian of records such as this have a heavy responsibility in that regard, and if they can't afford archival preservation and digital scanning then a means by which to achieve that needs to be found. Just my personal thoughts on the matter. A lot of late night alcohol fueled discussions/arguments with a buddy who is a conservator with the Smithsonian shaped that opinion.
None of us is immortal, and it behooves each of us to think ahead to the next generations or this hobby (passion) we hold so dear will wither on the vine. I agree and trust JTC like Roe Clark before him will ensure the records longevity. Meanwhile, @$25 a Savage letter is pretty good bang for the buck. I got a Winchester letter from Cody,...$75 smackers. (overhead cost money) Which brings up a question, does anyone know how Cody handles Winchester, Marlin, etc. records?
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I believe the Winchester records have been on computer for a long time. There are millions of Winchesters recorded so it must have been an expensive/time consuming venture.
BillR
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Would be interested in others thoughts on the following... JTC has the Fox shotgun records but when Roe had them, he allowed them to be scanned by an individual (this was a LONG time ago so the scan quality is not great and in very limited cases, there was info on the back of the cards that was not scanned. They also only scanned the graded guns cards). Those records were then gifted to the Fox collectors association that would provide a copy to members that paid a life time membership or at a per copy price. This was intended to provide longevity to the collector association. The Fox collector association now offers the entire record set for sale for something like $1000. There is some "legal" document that you must sign saying you will not provide them to others but not sure how well that would really hold up and would obviously be very hard to prove once a few full copies are out in private hands.
Andrew
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