Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Salt Creek Massacre... The Real One

Yes lots intermarried with the Lipa s out around fort griffin. They pretty much were absorbed by white and native intermarriage.

Trying to disect "Grizzly Bears" name. It's been a while. I'm not sure if it's all Muskoegean. Prolly not. Too dang many dialects. Nita is bear and I can see that, but there were lots of other words absorbed into "Seminole" vocabulary from Algonquin roots like the Tsalagi (Cherokee).

I know my buds in the nations use lots of different words for some of the animals than Muskoegean based.

Heck thru the Mobilian trade jargon lots of french, Spanish, and English words made their way in!

Just to return to that Seminole for a moment.



The longest actual shots I have seen described during the longrifle period were at 400 yards. I believe one was Col. Edward Hanger's account of a Virginia rifleman, laying prone, hitting the horse of his aide at that distance in our Rev War. The ball passing between the bodies of Hanger and another Officer a few feet away and hitting the horse stood crosswise right behind their own mounts.

The second was of a series of 400 yard shots on sentries by Seminoles, reported by the exceedingly capable General Edmund P Gaines (another great unsung hero in our history) at the 1835 Battle of Ouithlacootchie during the opening of the Second Seminole War. General Gaines' men were besieged behind low log breastworks, taking fire over a number of days, giving some among the Seminoles time to find the range. This was at the opening of hostilities when the Seminoles and Black Seminoles were not yet chronically short of powder and lead like they would become as the conflict dragged on.

At 400 yards, a rifle-caliber round ball is dropping like a rock whatever the muzzle velocity may have been, making range estimation absolutely critical. I posted Gaines' account over on the Tradtional Muzzleloading Form board maybe a year back and was simply scoffed at by many of the regular shooters there... ...until some of them actually tried it.

Turns out it can be done, regularly, but again range estimation/elevation is absolutely critical to avoid dropping the ball either behind or in front of the target. Needless to say wind is a big factor too. No mean trick with simple blade and notch fixed sights.

Not sure exactly what kind of firearm Grizzly Bear in that pic is holding but it does appear to be a classic long rifle. I'm gonna posit a guess that that guy would be dangerous at 400 yards.

Speculation I know.

Birdwatcher

Lots of fusils in the southeast. Frenh and English. Lots of painted guns too! Everything from pink to flowers!!! Reminds me of one Choctaw chief , Tananpo Loosa, or Black Gun!

By the time of the Seminole wars, lots of cheap american trade rifles of the era made their way to the area! Like Lemans, Henry's, Golchers, etc.

Btw, of no significance here, but Ive personally examined a left hand flint fusil lock from down in the Tunica country in a private collection. Just remembered that!

Birdy,
Is the painting from the Berlandier report commissioned by the Mexican govt in 1835? Berlandier did not sketch the natives but a very talented Mexican officer who accompanied the survey did. And I can't for the life of be remember his name ?

Addendum

It was Mier e Teran who he traveled with on the Mexican Boundry commission beginning in 1827. Later expedition in 1834 was under a different commander.

I first found in an unlooked for source, here....

http://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/amis/aspr-34/chap3.htm

...about the best concise summary of Indians in Texas that I've found.

I thought it was originally from Berlandier too but it turns out the original drawing was in the 1849-55 Emory Boundary Survey...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_Mexican_Boundary_Survey

Birdwatcher

Side note;

It was Beandier who stated he witnessed Comanche women having sexual relations with dogs. I have always felt this was an add on of his official report. To further demonize the tribe in the eyes of the Mexicans.

Sorta ironic, considering how many Comanches WERE Mexicans.

...I blame the women, even if they were mostly abducted in the case of the Comanches. Pretty much EVERY immigrant group going into Mexico, of whatever race, ended up marrying local girls and become part of the Mexican Borg.

Got a buddy last name Obregon, I tell him he's really Irish. Obregon is just O'Brien in Mexican.

Birdwatcher

Let's not forget Alejandro O' Reilly, first Spanisg governor of Luisiana and Hugo O' Conor, viceroy down there in Saltillo I believe!