Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Reloading Data trickling in on LT-30

Looking at Accurate Expanded data & see they have released a little data on the newer LT-30 propellant to come out soon. Have to admit I am a little disappointed in velocities published. As usual early hype seemed to indicate we may expect substantially more velocity from this powder than a lot of the older tried and true loads.
Based on the limited data offered thus far I think she better offer exceptional E.S. otherwise this powder just may disappoint us from what little I have seen.

Was hoping for some 17 HH data. Thus far I am left with a goose egg on that one.

I dunno where you heard any "substantially more velocity" hype about either LT-30 or LT-32. Everything I have read has emphasized consistent performance at different temperatures, along with extremely low velocity spreads.

I agree with you JB. LT32 isn't going to win any speed contests but it has performed the same at all temps I have tried it at. ES in the 20- 30 range and SD's in the vey low teens to single digits. So far have chronoed the same load in the 20 - 90 degree range and the difference is negligible. Very consistent, but for upper velocity other powders are better.

I've found many powders designed for zippier velocities don't provide as much consistency in varying conditions. I'll gladly give up some muzzle velocity for consistency, but that's just me.

As for where I picked up we might expect LT-30 Powder � Accuracy Rivals H4198, with More Speed. See link below.

Mule deer I am very much in agreement with you regarding accuracy being Top priority.

Hope I am not reading to much into comments made here

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/11/new-lt-30-powder-accuracy-rivals-h4198-with-more-speed/

I have read the article, have also read many on how LT32 came about and what I will say is that top notch BR shooters can be a interesting lot.
I took from the article that the 30 BR w/ light bullets could be pushed 200 FPS faster without apparent pressure issues.
Now to me that statement means that you have room on the top to add more powder to achieve that fps gain without running into problems.
Couple that with shooting a lot of LT32 the past 10 months I found this to be true with it as it does not fill the case, is a low pressure / low recoil powder when going by the published data, but along with this velocity was off from published charge in both of my rifles. Velocity was cured by using some of that room on top although when published velocity was reached consistency suffered.
If you want a powder that is a pleasure to load and shoot then the LT powder line is right up your alley.

Based on my somewhat limited (to date) experience with LT-32, that is gospel. The stuff seems to be magic in .222 even if velocity isn't so impressive, but impressive velocity is not what the .222 is about. I got a .220 for going fast.

Hunterapp,

Ah, that explains it! accuratereloading.com publishes lots of speculative pressure "data." In fact, they were the source that suggested Reloder 17 had a created an other "powder paradigm," and could produce another 200 fps out of almost any cartridge. But that was before piezo-tested data for RL-17 appeared. When it did, it turned out maybe an extra 100 fps was possible in a few specific applications, but even other Alliant powders often beat RL-17.

In this instance, the author suggests LT-30 can get up to 200 fps more velocity than H4198 in the BR-30 "without apparent pressure issues." This means he worked up loads the old-fashioned way, by guessing from various "pressure signs." Though not as hyperbolic as the RL-17 stuff, without pressure-tested data it's equally speculative.

Here's a comparison of piezo pressure-tested data for LT-30 and H4198 from Western Powders and Hodgdon in various cartridges. The velocities listed are the maximum, both taken from 24" barrels. Similar or exactly the same bullets were used in each:

.17 Fireball, 20-grain: 4014 fps (LT-30), 4037 (H4198)
.222 Remington, 40-grain: 3403 (LT-30), 3480 (H4198)
.222 Remington, 50-grain: 3111 (LT-30), 3160 (H4198)
6mm PPC, 65-grain: 3161 (LT-30), 3218 (H4198)

As you can see, both powders result in very similar velocities. This is what we'd expect of two single-based extruded powders of similar burn rate.

Mule Deer

LT-30 is supposed to be very temp insensitive producing a similar pressure/velocity throughout o wide temperature band; Similar to to H4198.

Any chance this LT-30 offers a de-copper agent as well?

Since Western doesn't list it, I doubt it.

Ok, maybe a little insight into what the LT series is supposed to be and when it started

Taken from Precision Shooting

Thunderbird T-322 or T-32 has been a favorite powder of top Benchrest shooters since first packaged in the �70�s. This was a military surplus powder (Dupont 8208) that was first used by Walt Berger for Benchrest shooting.

Walt was contacted by the folks at Thunderbird Cartridge Company to see if the 8208 that they bought had any application for Benchrest shooting. There were three lots of this surplus powder, and Walt found one to be better than the other two. He got a second opinion from Don Geraci. Both agreed that this one lot had the characteristics for which BR shooters were looking.

Thunderbird packaged this one lot as T-322, which was soon changed to T-32 because of a conflict with H-322 and GI-322. There was some 21,000 pounds of this special lot.

The other two lots were sold as Thunderbird 8208 and many found these lots to also be very good for BR use.

Thirty-plus years have passed since the introduction of this superb powder and it has become very scarce. Most of today�s supply of Dupont 8208 comes from pull down of 5.56mm military rounds. I guess that this is better than not having any, but it leaves a lot to be desired

From posting on BR Central

HEY GUYS,
I JUST FINISHED UP MY INITIAL CHRONGRAPH WORK WITH THE NEW LT-32 POWDER AND I HAVE TO SAY I WAS IMPRESSED. I HAVE NOT CONCERNED MYSELF WITH NEW POWDERS, SEEINGS HOW I HAVE ENOUGH "T" TO LAST THE REST OF MY LIFE, BUT I STILL LIKE TO TEST ESPECIALLY FOR MY STUDENTS WHO WILL FOLLOW IN OUR FOOT STEPS INTO THE FUTURE. I HAVE POSTED MY INITIAL CHRONOGRAPH WORK ON FACEBOOK IN A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON TO "T". IF YOUR INTERESTED YOU CAN FOLLOW THE LINK BELOW.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3&l=1adda528ad

I WILL POST MORE PICTURES AND A VOLUME TO WEIGHT CHART TOMORROW WHEN I GET IT ALL COMPILED. PLUS A LITTLE MORE INFO BELOW FROM WESTERN POWDERS TO BETTER FILL YOU IN ON THE LATEST.

KEEP'EM SMALL,
SPEEDY GONZALEZ

From: Keith Anderson [mailto:Keithramshot.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:30 AM
To: Gonzalez, Speedy
Subject: RE: L-32



Speedy,

The LT-32 is an exact copy of the original T-32 manufactured in the same plant and on the same machinery as the original. Lou Murdica has been extensively testing it and he tells us it is the easiest powder to tune that he has seen in 40 years. According to Lou, the chamber that everybody was using in the 80's will work with this powder. The bullets do not need to be seated way out in order to get more powder in the case. In testing the powder in our Bond Universal receiver against the origin "T' powder, my S.D.'s were about 30% lower with the new powder versus the "T" powder. Lou and Don Nielson donated 16 pounds of the original T-32 lot of powder for our quality control and that is what the new powder is shot against. All of our powders are allowed to deviate +3% to -5% in pressure from the quality control lot except LT-32 which we cut the deviation percentages in half in order to have the best lot to lot consistency in the industry for this powder. Another advantage of LT-32 is the fact that our Accurate 2015 can be blended with this powder if anyone wants to adjust the burn rate. 2015 is also manufactured on the machinery, has the same geometry but is about 10% slower that LT-32.

Just a note on Hodgdon's 8208. The 8208 that is being brought into the country is not being brought in for the benchrest market as most people believe. It is being brought into the country for military contracts and it just so happened that it worked in the PPC. It is being QC'd for those military contracts not for benchrest shooters. There is more money in the military side of selling powder. I work directly with the company using it for military applications. LT-32 is just the opposite. We developed this powder specifically for the 6mm PPC and it is QC'd in the 6mm PPC.

I can send you a sample if you would like.


Best regards,
Keith Anderson
Western Powders Ballistic Lab

Swifty 32

If LT-32 has been developed specifically for the 6ppc would it be fair to say that LT-30 has been developed for the 30 Bench rest?

Yes, the whole line as far as I have been able to find out is geared to the BR guys. From what I have found out from the local guys is that LT32 did not meet expectations out of the guys shooting the 30 BR. The PPC guys liked it, it works but reviews have been mixed. I would say that probably 85 % of the 6 PPC guys are still running 133, and a few are still shooting the original T32 as they bought a boat load.

I would imagine that other applications will happen, but will be somewhat limited just like LT32, if the 30 is usable in the deuce and 223 I will more than likely try it just for giggles.

Well I still expect this powder will find great aplications beyond the 30 BR.

Specificaly I was wanting to give it a go in the new 17 Hornet. Had 8 lbs on order, yet with the lack of 17 Hornet data and my patience wearing out I canceled the backorder. Already have accurate 2200, H322 and H4198 on hand now. These powders seems to be working well for my needs thus far.

H4198 wasn't one of the un advertised copper reducing propellants was it?

Can we suppose IMR will be coming out with an Enduron technology propellant in this burn rate in the coming years?

I suspect so!

More than likely data for these powders will come about, but unless you are willing to experiment then who knows. Most of the data is going to come from word of mouth on uses that are non- factory.
As for the bold, seeings how the military has required a de-coppering agent in powder for their use since the 1920's, I would venture to guess that you will find that there is a de-coppering agent in most if not all rifle powders in the form of Tin Dioxide, Bismuth, or a combination of both.

The military use drives all small arms powder !!! We get the cast offs. And call it good.

" unless you are willing to experiment then who knows. Most of the data is going to come from word of mouth on uses that are non- factory. "

If the supply was readily available; I would have gladly worked up loads for the calibers I had applicable rifles. Lack of Accurate powder availability in locally owned shops my only option was ordering on line. Ultimately I was delayed, priced and given insufficient data during my time of the year I have time for such activities. Perhaps next year will see.