Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors lets design ideal old 70 hunting rifle

Oh yeah, I was going to say that as well.. Pretty hard to beat those two.. I am missing the Pre 64 270, but my old Classic 270WSM does work well.

I think it's getting some stock work soon too..

You're like me and really like the classics too. I only have 2 left (30-06 sporter and 7mm rem mag SS), but they have done everything I've asked without even the slightest hiccup. I've heard of some having problems, but I'm thankful I got real lucky with mine!!!! I'd have a hard time letting either of mine go. I probably use the 30-06 the majority of the time when hunting both deer and elk here.. It's a fun gun and I don't mind switching scopes, mounts, painting the stocks, cerakoting etc. etc... Eventually the 30-06 is going to be turned into a 9.3x62mm and I'll sell all of my other rifles...

Yeah, I am the opposite actually, I only have 1 Pre 64 and the rest are Classic's along with a 90's era XTR. All have been functional and accurate, but my first and only Pre 64 is truly my favorite rifle, hands down.

My 270WSM Classic has been very good. No hiccups and accurate as all get out and easy to work with. I think of it as the 270 Ackley.. 150's at the same speed a 270 Win does 130's. Pretty good combo. The bullets are what makes them cool to me...

Don't shoot up all those BBC's in one place. You'll play hell replacing those ones..

You know you love that 338 too. I can see more pre's in your future..

I agree, good stuff here. But I keep thinking there has to be room for a 30-06 in there! lol.

Eric

I agree Eric. The 270 is very good and the only reason I like mine better than my 30-06:



Taken from a previous post earlier in the thread... I've tried to like the swirly, but like the Mcmillan hunters compact better. I was very disappointed in the weight of the swirly. Like I said before, the damn thing weighs more than the original wood stock. For me, the main reason for going to a synthetic is to lose weight and gain strength. If you aren't doing both, it's hardly worth switching...JMHO..

I hear you. That's the tradeoff when going Swirly vs. an Edge.

Eric

My 270 doesn't have an edge on it.. I'm like Oregon45 and actually prefer the balance better with the standard fill hunters compact on the fwt's. My 30-06 EW with the edge was too light in my opinion and just didn't feel right. Especially when shooting it off the bench . I'd rather shoot my 338 Alaskan. Thus it went down the road..

This is a great thread. Its got me to thinking about why I like my pre 64's so much and what it takes to make the "ideal" model 70. Well this thread and the recent "balance" thread has got me thinking.

Kutenay put a lot of perspective on the whole thing. I'd like to add what I feel the ideal model 70 build should include:

1. Proper balance...
2. Ideal cartridge to weight ratio..
3. Magazine capacity..
4. Strength of both action and stock..
5. Choice in optics and mounts/rings..
6. Fitting the rifle to you and your needs. AKA proper ergos..
7. Excellent accuracy.
8. Reliability and function.

You should be able to roll all this up into a nice package and call it your "ideal" model 70 build..

bsa: Good post!

When up and moving I tend to carry a rifle in my left hand, under the floor plate. I like rifles that sit there "neutral" and muzzle or butt tilt has me searching for the middle...so I like rifles with the weight evenly distributed between my hands.

Rifles like that seem to "point" more like a shotgun and the grouse guns I grew up with(very fast). I know some folks like a bit of muzzle tilt and I concede to that for some...but mostly I like a more neutral feel. I don't find these difficult to shoot at all.

I like a 22" barrel in standard cartridges like a 270, 280,7x57, 7/08,30/06,etc etc;and I like a light contour barrel, either FW or krieger #1. For stocks I've liked and used in no particular order, Brown Precision,Bansner,and McMillan Edge.

I used to stretch this concept into the 7 mag arena but by the time I get to a 7mm magnum I want a bit more stock(at least fuller dimensions) and my "new" favorite is the Echols Legend for anything 7 Rem Mag and up. I would not use an Edge in anything above a 7mm magnum. IMO you need more weight in a 300 magnum both to cut recoil ,offset a heavier barrel contour,and cut stock resonance in a rifle lighting a big fire.

I am slowly changing my mind when it comes to a 30/06 in a FW package...used to be fine with a light Brown but will likely use an Echols Legend on my present pre 64 FW....a light 30/06 can gin up a fair amount of recoil with full loads and the Legend mitigates recoil.

In 338 I'll take standard fill,and weight of 8-8.5 pounds scoped.I like a 23" barrel....ditto a 375 H&H where I like about a #4 contour and 23" is perfect to me but I can live with the 25" barrels of the pre 64's in 375 and 338,and an Echols Legend, standard fill.

I like any stock color so long as it's black, grey or brown...compared to a nice piece of French any synthetic is less than attractive, so I don't go crazy. I do like the colors on my Mashburn, though, which is a black/brown mix.

A posts back, somebody mentioned that there should be room among my rifles for a .30-06 and I DO have a 98% P-64 FWT., pillar-bedded into one of the original Pacific Research synthetic stocks and with a Leupy QR/Lyman receivr sight.Sourdough sight setup that I use on many of my rifles.

I had five VERY choice .30-06 rifles in my safes until a couple of years ago, when I began to seriously thin my collection as I am now eager to do.

I have kept this one, it shoots "lights out", but, I just am not a .30-06 guy, although I have used this round in bushwork and realize it's capabilities.

EACH to his own, but, I much prefer one of the 7mm standard rounds and the 7-08 for MY uses and a .338WM for any hunting where I consider it worth packing a rifle weighing 8,5-9lbs.

SNAP no disagreement but I have this very nice pre 64 FW 06 and need to do something with it as I feel the need....

I do like and admire the old round.

I have really enjoyed all the posts guys. Unlike most of you, or maybe any of you, I've only used the original wood stocks on my pre-64s for all my hunting. Yes, I know thats pretty old school and behind the times. Guess I'm too old fashioned and tight. I've always taken lots of time to properly weatherproof them on the inside, but the big majority of my hunting has been done in cold conditions so I've never really worried about moisture having an adverse effect on the stock. The big portion of my hunting over the past 20 years plus has been with .270s. I have 3 of them: all pre-64s. The first is a transition action with a featherweight contour Douglas barrel 22" long that I used in Michigan's Upper Penninsula brush. The second is also a custom barrel: a Hart with 26 1/2" heavy barrel (.700 at the muzzle) for prairie whitetail hunting.Muzzle heavy by design and about 10 1/2#. And the 3rd has become my most used: a standard factory barrel and stock. I really like this rifle and it has taken most of my coyotes as well.

Then I started hunting in Alaska as we have relatives and now our youngest son is up there guiding. So I bought a pre-64 .300 Win. Mag. with what ended up being a barrel with much throat erosion and ended up re-placing it last summer with a douglas that ended up at 25". This is the rifle I took to Kodiak Island in Sept. for my goat hunt with my son. I had taken a lot of effort to weather-proof the insides of the stock as well as the outside and it performed fine, even though we didn't get lots of rain as Kodiak is famous for. I plan I using this same rifle in Idaho this fall for elk.

I'm kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it guy. But I did break down and bought a set of Talley lightweights for the .300 before the goat hunt simply because I wanted to reduce weight a bit for climbing after those goats. I think the rifle weights about 8# 12 or 13 oz. loaded.

So when I started this thread, it was partially just for fun, but also thinking what about just ONE rifle for the rest of my hunting. If it weren't for Alaska with the brown bears, I'd probably be thinking standard caliber, but frankly, as I include Alaska with larger animals, I think that the .300 Win. Mag. with a Leup. 2 1/2-8 (what's on my .300) just might make a lot of sense for that one north american rifle. I just might even break down and put one of those non-wood stocks on it!!

Thanks again guys for all the input and sharing of experiences.

Ruffed Grouse

Great post, lots of very good points there. Turns out we are pretty much in agreement on what works, so you must be right!

pat lots of those formulas came from building in days when there were not so many factory options....at least I was not happy with what was out there. So I built a lot of rifles.

I recall driving Butch Searcy nuts with one 7 mag..2-3 trips back till the contour was just right...but when he got it, he really got it...and the rifle was a favorite for years before I toasted the barrel. I have duplicated it two other times since and wore those barrels out as well.So lots of stuff today does not grab my attention because I had it years ago.

I am still pretty content with a pre 64 FW dropped in a synthetic. Magnums need more thought in balancing weight and portability with tolerable recoil.

Ruffed grouse there is wood over here as well; your choice of a 300 Win Mag is very good IMHO...tough to beat that cartridge for all round utility. Drop it in a Legend if you go synthetic and I promise you will not be disappointed....JMHO of course.

I had probably the first Legend stock blanks that came into Canada, in my gunroom, belonging to my best buddy, several years ago.

I was considering installing them on my finest pair of P-64 .375/.300H&H rifles, but, found the ergonomics did not suit me. I managed to find a pair of Borden-Rimrock stock blanks and these are now on these rifles.....makes a FINE pair which I have not shot in 4-5 years.

So, I would advise trying different stock styles until YOU find what feels best to YOU. I happen to find the MPI Dakota Classic, the Bansner-Hightech, the Rimrock and, especially the original AHR style from Mickys, for the CZ-550, to suit me best.

I wish Micky would offer this pattern, inletted for Mauser 98s, I would LOVE to build my three remaining Brno 21/ZG actions into rifles using this stock.

Trust me, you want what is called "Professionals Magnum":

"Grandpas Magnum"......

Key questions would be type of muzzle break it has and barrel twist rate. Ideally you want to stabilize heavier bullets otherwise there is no point of having hole larger than .30 caliber. I would leave guns like .338Mag and .375Mags to them young whippersnappers!

I wish I could find an original AHR for my CZ 550 American 9.3..

Bob's always right. At least everything I've read from him makes sense to me...

Good posts guys. Let us remember Phil Shoemaker really likes the 30-06 stuffed with 200-220 gr. nosler partitions. That speaks volumes on the capabilities of the old war horse.. Give me a nicely stocked fwt over a big heavy kicking 300 win mag any day of the week and twice on sunday...BTDT and ain't going back.. Here's what MR. Shoemaker had to say:



I'd also pick a good well balanced 9.3x62mm over the 300 win mag. "Different strokes for different folks"....