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Campfire 'Bwana
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The folks wanted to buy two handguns in Texas but could not under current law. They were in Texas, they live in DC. They could not buy in Texas but would have had to have the handguns shipped to the DC FFL. This clear thinking federal judge sat the law prohibiting the folks from buying straight from the Texas FFL is unconstitutional.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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From the ruling:
Based on the foregoing, the Court concludes that Defendants have not shown that the federal interstate handgun transfer ban is narrowly tailored to be the least restrictive means of achieving the Government’s goals under current law. The federal interstate handgun transfer ban is therefore unconstitutional on its face. The Court further finds, in the alternative, the federal interstate handgun transfer ban is unconstitutional when applied to the facts of this case. The essence of an as-applied challenge is the claim that the manner in which a statute was applied to the plaintiff in a particular circumstance violated the Constitution. See In re Cao, 619 F.3d 410, 434 (5th Cir. 2010); Khachaturian v. Fed. Election Comm’n, 980 F.2d 330, 331 (5th Cir. 1992). Texas law allows the sale of handguns to residents of other states, and the District of Columbia does not prohibit the importation of firearms as long as they are registered. See D.C. Code § 7-2502.01(a) (2014). Further, based on the undisputed facts in this case, the Hansons are fully qualified under federal, District of Columbia, and Texas law to purchase and possess handguns, and the Hansons each identified a handgun in Mance’s inventory that is legal for them to possess and bring into the District of Columbia. As discussed above, requiring that the Hansons pay additional costs and fees and wait until they return to the District of Columbia to retrieve their firearms from Sykes amounts to a regime that is not narrowly tailored to achieve the Government’s compelling interest. Accordingly, the federal interstate handgun transfer ban is unconstitutional as applied to Plaintiffs.
Am I correct in assuming that this Trial Court ruling only applies to the Plaintiffs (the Hansons)?
Every citizen is afforded the same rights and protections under the constitution unless they are felons, a law cannot be unconstitutional for one person and constitutional for another.
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The folks wanted to buy two handguns in Texas but could not under current law. They were in Texas, they live in DC. They could not buy in Texas but would have had to have the handguns shipped to the DC FFL. This clear thinking federal judge sat the law prohibiting the folks from buying straight from the Texas FFL is unconstitutional. I thought it was about shipping.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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An article on it made it to Drudge. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/11/federal-court-rules-residency-requirements-pistol-/Quote from Gottlieb: Alan Gottlieb, the founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, a pro-Second Amendment advocacy organization based in Bellevue, Washington, which helped fund the lawsuit, said he was “on cloud nine.”
“This case shows, if you can’t buy a handgun, you can’t exercise your Second Amendment right, because you can’t acquire it,” he said.
The Texas court applied “strict scrutiny” when evaluating the case, something other courts have been reluctant to do when dealing with the Second Amendment, he said.
For example, if the federal government wanted to prohibit bookstores from selling books to out-of-state residents, those residents could sue, citing a violation of their First Amendment rights, and they would have standing. The same standard historically hasn’t been given to Second Amendment cases, Mr. Gottlieb said.
“You’re allowed to buy a book and now you’re allowed to buy your gun. With this case, we’re able to create that analogy and have it stand,” said Mr. Gottlieb. “It greatly helps those arguing on behalf of the Second
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Ranger
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"The Texas court applied “strict scrutiny” when evaluating the case, something other courts have been reluctant to do when dealing with the Second Amendment, he said."
I thought as soon as I read this yesterday that the level of scrutiny applied might be the really BIG news. I was gonna wait on isaac to chime in and ask him, but it looks like this guy sees it the same way.
But.... boilerproofing the decision by applying two levels of scrutiny might set a bad precedent.
Or not???
Waiting on Calhoun and Denton.... .
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If he'd gone with just the strict scrutiny, it would have been a tossup at every appeals level whether his entire decision was tossed out and sent back down because they thought it was the wrong one to use. Adding in Equal Protection just makes it that much tougher to overturn it.
The appeals will be run on the logic involved in saying it passes scrutiny and equal protection and much less on procedural grounds now. I don't see them winning an appeal....
But then I'm flabbergasted that any judge could find that it's constitutional to ban 18-20 year olds from buying handguns, when that age group makes up the majority of our military. By saying 18-20 year olds are too immature to buy a handgun, they are basically saying that America recruits child soldiers.
So.. sit back and wait. I would guess there will be a quick appeals and stay request from DOJ.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Ranger
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He wasn't ruling on that provision, though, was he?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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So...
If I am in 5th Circuit territory ;
"The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit (in case citations, 5th Cir.) is a federal court with appellate jurisdiction over the district courts in the following Southern districts:
Eastern District of Louisiana Middle District of Louisiana Western District of Louisiana Northern District of Mississippi Southern District of Mississippi Eastern District of Texas Northern District of Texas Southern District of Texas Western District of Texas "
can I buy a handgun by simply paying the money & filling out a 4473 ? , or will I have to show them a NC CCW or PP as required by NC law ?
Will a FFL in the 5th Circuit region recognize a NC CCW or PP if I am required to show it , will they even know what a NC CCW or PP is ?
Mike
Always talk to the old guys , they know stuff.
Jerry Miculek
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Campfire Ranger
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Considering that the case will be appealed and an injunction granted, all that line of questioning is academic at this point.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"The Texas court applied “strict scrutiny” when evaluating the case, something other courts have been reluctant to do when dealing with the Second Amendment, he said."
I thought as soon as I read this yesterday that the level of scrutiny applied might be the really BIG news. I was gonna wait on isaac to chime in and ask him, but it looks like this guy sees it the same way.
But.... boilerproofing the decision by applying two levels of scrutiny might set a bad precedent.
Or not???
Waiting on Calhoun and Denton.... . By applying both strict and intermediate scrutiny, and the 5A, the court handed as strong a victory to Alan Gura and the plaintiffs as possible. The feds will first appeal the summary judgment motion all the way through. Expect that to be overturned and the case remanded for trial. Now, if the same decision holds at trial, then the feds will have to argue and win on all three counts (strict, intermediate, and the 5A) in order to prevail on appeal. The trial court's decision is a huge, huge victory for freedom.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The folks wanted to buy two handguns in Texas but could not under current law. They were in Texas, they live in DC. They could not buy in Texas but would have had to have the handguns shipped to the DC FFL. This clear thinking federal judge sat the law prohibiting the folks from buying straight from the Texas FFL is unconstitutional. OK I understand that, but nowhere in anything that I read did it stipulate whether the plaintiffs were trying to buy face to face, or mail order. I guess your take makes more sense, otherwise we would have a huge problem with gun purchases via identity theft.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He wasn't ruling on that provision, though, was he? The ban on 18-20 year olds buying handguns? No, it was referenced in his ruling about how there can be legitimate restrictions on the 2nd, but this case had nothing to do with it. I was just referencing those rulings to demonstrate that there is still 2A law being made that goes against all common sense.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So...
can I buy a handgun by simply paying the money & filling out a 4473 ? , or will I have to show them a NC CCW or PP as required by NC law ?
Will a FFL in the 5th Circuit region recognize a NC CCW or PP if I am required to show it , will they even know what a NC CCW or PP is ?
Mike It would be my guess that you would not have to show the papers, but it would be on you to do the proper paperwork necessary on a handgun import into the state just as if you had inherited it or were moving into the state for the first time. FFL's will only have to know which handguns are legal in the state of residence, not the state paperwork.
Last edited by Calhoun; 02/12/15.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It has to be face to face.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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So, people in TX and the 5th Circuit should be able to buy handguns out of state at this time.
Cause every time a commie fed judge rules for the queers, they get immediate marriage licenses, right?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Considering that the case will be appealed and an injunction granted, all that line of questioning is academic at this point. As of right now then, it is totally legal to buy a handgun from an FFL dealer across the state line then (as far as Federal law is concerned), and it will remain that way until an injunction is granted to the Feds?
Last edited by EthanEdwards; 02/12/15.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Of course, one assumes the ATF will continue with their regs regardless of the courts.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Considering that the case will be appealed and an injunction granted, all that line of questioning is academic at this point. As of right now then, it is totally legal to buy a handgun from an FFL dealer across the state line then (as far as Federal law is concerned), and it will remain that way until an injunction is granted to the Feds? In Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas it should be legal for any resident from any state to walk in and buy a handgun from any FFL if they can pass the background check. But, yeah... try to find a dealer that will risk a fight with the BATFE.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Ranger
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Considering that the case will be appealed and an injunction granted, all that line of questioning is academic at this point. As of right now then, it is totally legal to buy a handgun from an FFL dealer across the state line then (as far as Federal law is concerned), and it will remain that way until an injunction is granted to the Feds? In that district, yes, I believe that would be the case.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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