Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns It's too quiet---let me stir up some controversy….

Allways knew someday I would find something we could agree on. I too have a M60 DAO and don't really see the need for a J in 38 Special without a bobbed hammer. Great little shooters, sure looks like I need a set of those grips also.

No 17's for me.
M57 takes care of sporting needs in 10mm and 40 SW for a larger ccw gun. MagnumMan

Lots of .17 on the shelves when .22 ammo was nowhere to be seen. Other than that, the various .17s just haven't grabbed me. But I'm probably missing something.

"……I've got too much time on my hands while we're waiting for Spring to start construction on our home so I thought I'd stir the ashes here at the campfire---there's been way too little dispute to keep things interesting!!!

…..Other than the frivolity of having something "different" that's fun to shoot, I for the life of me can't figure out why anyone would want:

1. a 3" barreled J-frame…..hey, it's a "POCKET PISTOL"----unless you work for Barnum and Bailey or are Capt. Kangaroo, you don't have pockets adequate for the job. Shoving a 3" J-frame in the front pocket of your Wranglers is going to be like Andre the Giant and Mary Lou Retton on their wedding night (I apologize for that mental image). Ok, maybe one in .22 for a bird hunter to dispatch a skunk or porcupine that gets too close to his bird dog……J-frames for self defense should have barrels less than 2"--anything else, I just don't get it. I've never owned a three-inch J frame but my thoughts are...the classic 44 Mag. for many years was a 6-6 1/2" model 29. It's a hunting handgun. Once you lop the barrel off to 4", it becomes a passable duty handgun. Different configurations of the same gun for different missions. It's that simple.

2. a 5 shot .44 magnum in a steel-L-frame with a barrel in excess of 4". Giving up a round in the cylinder to gain a frame size reduction that is irrelevant for concealed carry seems irrational, plus the 4 1/4" barrel seems to negate the CC intent (who uses this gun for CC anyway?). Had they made it with a Scandium frame and shorter barrel, I'd get it. There are lighter and shorter barreled N-frames which would be desirable if packing it for a trail gun, in which case an extra round in the cylinder might be a good thing. There are a number of 'smiths that can easily modify an N-frame to accept K/L frame grips if you want your wife or child to shoot the gun. If you're committed to the cartridge and just want to plink with it, there are heavier .44's that will be much more pleasant to shoot. I just don't get it.Get it and then maybe you'll get it. They're pretty sweet.





3. The almost religious-zealotry that accompanies the 10mm. It was the darling of Jeff Cooper and since I loved Jeff and couldn't find, nor afford a Bren 10, when Colt came out with the Delta Elite I got one of the very first ones----it was un-pleasant to shoot in IPSC events. It's efficacy over the .45 ACP for defensive stopping power is irrelevant in any practical sense. I get that someone may want to hunt with a handgun and it's ballistically a semi-auto .41 magnum. So why not just go with a .41 magnum or better yet a .454 Casull or .44 Mag. (I understand that Smith is making a crackerjack new L-frame in that caliber.) With cheaper, more effective and more readily available cartridges, when it comes to the 10mm, I don't get it.A lot of people are just like you. That's why the 10 has never been very popular. I don't agree that it's anywhere near the 41 Mag. in power. More of the same argument can be made against the 40 S&W. The 45 ACP and 9mm are perfectly adequate for the same mission as the 40, yet LE had to have another caliber, lead by the Feebs. So there it is and it is a great one. About the only argument I really have for owning one is that it's so popular that it gives you one more option when ammo gets tight if you have one. That and I'd never owned one until recently.

4. The excitement over .17 caliber varmint cartridges…….I'm a moderately committed prairie dog shooter; to the point that it was at least a partial criteria in our decision to retire to Wyoming. I understand the thrill of observing rather obtuse terminal ballistics, i.e. seeing how high, far or violently you can flip a p-dog off a mound. Were the cartridges less expensive in proportion to their smaller size, I'd understand, but the opposite seems to be true. While they may perform with spectacular results in ideal circumstances, they don't seem to do anything that other (larger, heavier) cartridges don't seem to do better and cheaper. I don't get it.I got no opinion on this one. The only argument I can think of against he 17 is wind-drift.

If I've gored your ox or beaten your sacred cow, this was all meant in good humor…..feel free to flame me….or at least enlighten me….there's so much that I just don't get.

Hopefully they'll be able to start excavation for our house and shooting berms with the first thaw and I won't have so much free time on my hands in the near future!! :-) "

Nah. I had a 2 1/2" 19. I could/can shoot the 3" 60 better than it - even with the same loads. If I'm gonna pack the larger frame, it might as well have the larger barrel. The 60as makes a great hills gun.

The L-frame .44 mag looks great for the same reasons. Should be a great vertical stroll gun for those who want a big bore. Only if you can actually shoot it with something warmer than hot .44 special loads though. Otherwise, the fact that it's only less than 2 oz lighter than a steel 1911 makes it kind of pointless in my book.

I agree on 3, and have no opinion on 4.

I just saw this thread. Seems like everything has been covered already. But hell, why not.

1. A 3" Model 60 does make a good belly gun for those times nothing else is concealable. A little less flash than a 2" version. Just enough more velocity to expand a hollow point that a 2" would not provide. Sometimes, maybe. I like adjustable sights on my guns also.

But I like 2" Detective Specials also.


2. A 5 shot .44 Magnum? I agree with ya' here. Just doesn't make any sense to me over anything else in the category. A mountain gun fits the bill better.

3.Don't take my Delta Elite away from me. A compact carry gun for the woods that shoots flat but with more power than a 38 Super. It is hard to beat. There isn't no .357 mag auto out there that I like. My .460 Rowland beats it in all respects though.

4. I'll take a .22 Mag over a .17 any day of the week. For field proven reasons.
I like the "thump" of a heavier bullet.


Thanks for the mental exercise this morning. I can't sleep.

Yes, Thanks for the fertilizer infused banter, "this thread" made me lose my headache from yesterday.

Not for me! I have way more handguns than I have fingers and toes - even counting the ones I've already shot off.

One of the problems with anecdotal evidence is that everyone's experiential "proof" is contrary to everyone else's……i.e. the very first revolver that I personally purchased was a 2 1/2" Model 19. It was the most incredibly accurate revolver that I've ever owned (up to this point). I realized the folly of those words as I have no idea how consistently precise it was chamber to chamber; it was 1972 and I was a college kid with no range equipment and little knowledge (now at least I have range equipment). Unfortunately I needed $ and sold it a year later, but In the ensuing 43 years, I've owned 4 longer barreled Model 19's (that I can remember off the top of my head), but I could shoot none of them as well as that 2 1/2" gun. The land where we're building our place/range is on the edge of the Snowy Range Mountains and there have been occasional bear, frequent Mt. Lion and even two bonified wolf sightings. My "hills gun" is a 2 1/2" Model 66. It's not heavy compared to anything that I normally carry except a 642. It rides high on the belt and protrudes very little below the belt with an OWB holster, making a great concealed carry gun with a light cover garment. In short, it seems to do everything that I want done……..perfectly. Unfortunately, my "proof" is irrelevant for anyone else, i.e. you shoot a 3" J-frame better than you shot your 2 1/2" K.
…..I'm not sure what "vertical stroll" means, but at my current state of gravity enhancement, I'm pretty sure that my days of strolling that way are gone. I still don't get the Model 69……for a "carrying around" gun the 3" 629 Talo gun seems to beat the 69 in every measurable way. It's only two frickin' onces heavier and is a full inch shorter which would make it more pleasant to both carry and shoot in my opinion ( or "comfortabler" as Doc put it). Why give up a round for 2 oz. of weight and one inch of barrel?? Quite honestly I'm thinking that the "Mountain Gun" is close to the perfect compromise.

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

….heck, if a little feces flinging is all it takes, this web site should make you bullet proof!!

controversy? Hmmm...

MIM sucks...

So does polymer.

Damn, you can't even start a good argument! Plus you probably hold your gun wrong.....

I have short fingers so it's easy for me to see the appeal of 44 mag power in a medium frame.

Gawd I envy you! I can't wait until I can say the same...

Except for the 17s I agree completely. The old 17 AH was in my opinion the finest sage rat killer ever born. I never had one but have abruptly ended the life of a bunch of sage rats with a friends 17 AH.

All the more reason to buy one.



Travis

….ok, I understand that when you've had success with something, you tend to think that it's the best……I just can't figure out (on paper) what any .17 does, that something else doesn't do better or cheaper. Where I live, one of those little .17's may wind up in Utah or Nebraska depending upon which way the wind is blowing.

Hard to find an area more windy than the Hi-Line and I already told you all the virtues of the .17 Remington.

From 50-300 there is NO finer varmint round. None.




Travis

3" J frame-great little trail gun. My full lug adjustable sight 60-4 serves perfectly as a house gun for my wife. Less recoil than a snub nose and the medium frame six shooters are too heavy for her. Outclassed though as a concealed carry gun I would agree.

10mm IMO not the perfect choice for any application.

17 cal varmint cartridges, I would agree with the OP on the centerfire versions but the rimfire 17 HMR is perfect and cheap for small varmints out to 150 yards.

5 shot .44 mag (smith 69). Has no advantage and gives up 1 round. My 629 mountain weighs about the same and is just as easy to pack as my 4" 686.

IMO the 69 is also one of the ugliest revolvers Smith has ever produced.