Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What are the 1911's weakness?

The "1911" isn't "a" gun, it's a genre, a platform, a model as opposed to "striker-fired" or "single action revolvers" or "da/sa autloaders" etc. If you add up all of the 1911's sold in the world in a year, they wouldn't equal the # of Glock 19's sold in one year, IF you add LEO sales. At least so says one of the VP's of Glock that hunts with my son in law---#'s which are obviously suspect, but I'm guessing fairly accurate. We were invited to the Glock party at the SHOT show last year (the biggest party at the show, with thousands in attendance)---they were celebrating another banner year--I've forgotten what the number of total guns sold for the year was, but it was staggering. Again, not objective figures, but certainly agrees with what three different friends of mine on the retail side of the gun counter say--the Glock 19 is the best selling sku on the shelf---and they're not big shooters, just see a lot of guns come and go.

Again, the whole argument is kinda moot---LEO and military sales aren't a representation of popularity, and certainly gun broker #'s are only telling you what owners are parting with---i.e. no one in their right mind would suggest that the Python is the best selling or most popular handgun in America.

FWIW, the late, great Louie Awerbuck (from South Africa and one of Cooper's early and ablest instructors) was possibly the finest been-there-done-that trainer of true street-fighting-down-and-dirty-no-nonsense-gee-whiz-tactics, carried a high-capacity-framed 1911 and instead of a spare magazine, he carried a Glock 19 for a "New York reload." Perhaps there's virtue in each, huh?

BTW, MaryAnne has aged far better than Ginger!

I don't know if you call it a weakness or not
but I reload my brass and it is kind of hard to find in the deep snow.
whelennut
625 is way mo betta

I'm saying I wish I could find one that ran 100%. No one wants to like the 1911 more than me but it just ain't happening. I got my Colt Combat Commander back this week and ran 300 rounds through it this weekend. Had probably 10 failures to fully chamber with Lead rounds and Winchester ball. That doesn't count the last rounds popping up in 4 magazines every stinking time. Had a few stove pipes on empty cases. Ran Colt mags, Pachmyer and CMC, all had problems. It's so frustrating to be able to shoot a pistol so well but not be able to trust it for an afternoon of fun, nevermind defending myself with it.

Did run 50 rounds of SWC's that were very mild shooting without issue but this is a 45, you know it's supposed to throw 230 gr bullets at 800 fps.

My Sig 228 and S&W Shield ran 500 rounds without a single issue and the Sig shoots tighter groups than any pistol I've tried.

A 1911 should always run without a problem one with proper specs will. You should be able to shoot ant 230 grain load through a 1911 without a hitch including +Ps. If not there is a problem that needs correcting.
Mine shoot any load that I put in them without fail.

I have a strong impression that this chasm twixt the 1911 likers and the GlockSigM&PEtc camp falls along generational lines, with the 1911 folks likely in the 50+ year old category while the other group is more likely 40 or under.

It is logical for all of us to be more enamored of whichever platform we first learned "serious" shooting technique with, be that military or LE training or private attendance at Chapman's, Gunsite, TR etc.

Since my first exposure to the modern technique was a 40 hour Intermediate Pistol course as taught by Ray C. in 1980, I fall into the over 50/1911 camp.
I currently have 7 1911s, all 45s.
But I also own (or have owned) G17, G19x2, G20, G21x2, G23, G26, G30, and G36 along with a handful of SIGs and one M&P 45.

My daily carry rotation includes 2 of the 1911s, Kimber Ultra CDP and DW CCO. None of the Glocks are in my rotation because I'm simply not comfortable carrying one in Condition 1, and if I'm carrying a piece it's going to be in Con 1.

So, that's me, perfectly happy with a cocked & locked 1911 on my hip, but not with a cocked and unlocked G whatever.

PS-The local Sheriff's dept requires deputies to buy their own sidearm from an approved list which includes all the usual suspects. However, a recent discussion with one deputy revealed that, ironically, the 1911 is no longer on that list. Seems the current brass believes the public would react negatively to seeing an officer carrying a cocked and locked 1911. I guess the public doesn't mind seeing a cocked and unlocked Glock?

Pete

I keep reading this but hear different stories in the real world. Seems everyone without fail that I've talked to has had to tweak something be it load, magazine or simply polish the workings for it to run 100%... most of the time.

I'll keep playing with this one just because I'm stubborn but I will never grab a 1911 over any of my other pistols if I have to depend on it.

If this is the same pistol you mentioned "pouring money into" earlier in this thread it's the main reason I've mostly stopped buying anything but NIB. Too mainly perfectly functional 1911's have been 'improved' into not working anymore.

Plenty of 1911's that run fine; whoever you paid to do whatever they did to your gun obviously doesn't know how to make it run & it sounds like there is likely more than one issue going on.

What vintage is the gun?

MM

I'd self identify as a 1911 guy. I'm under 40.

I've never had a malfunction with any of my safe queens . . . uh, I mean guns.

Slow down guys, this is being worked on as a favor from a good friend. The only money I'm out is for parts. First off it's a series 80 Colt bought with a very low round count and no work was done to it prior. The gun was poorly fitted from the factory though.

So far we've changed out the plastic trigger, fitted a new thumb safety because the original had so much slack it would flip up on recoil. Changed out the bushing cause the original was too loose, it was loose because the barrel sat in the upper crooked and tilted. The barrel has been fitted roughly and this weekend was a test run, nothing more. Burrs were all over every piece inside the gun. The ejector was tuned, new springs and I don't know what else he has done to the gun but we ain't through.

My point is in this adventure, I've talked to more 1911 owners and have yet to find one that bought one that was 100% out of the box when pressed. This one will be running before long but I'm still certain 1911's have plenty of weaknesses.

1. I'm 55 and in the Glock camp. I've owned a half dozen 1911's over the years but carry a G19 now.
2. Glocks are not cocked until the trigger is pulled.

I have several that have run from the git-go: Wilson Combat, DW Guardian, Christensen, 2 S&Ws's, a Springfield TRP & a parts gun built from the ground up.

I do have several others that got some minor tweaking & are now perfect: Colt Combat Commander (mid-'70's vintage), Kimber TLE.

Also a Ruger which has not been shot enough yet to know how it will be other than one of the factory mags is a problem when fully loaded; Tripp Cobra Mags seems to take care of it so far, but it needs more rounds through it to be sure.

Tripp & Wilson are the only mags I will use but the Christensen came with 3 mags that look amazingly similar to McCormacks, but stamped with Christensen's logo & they are perfect so far.

I will admit that, with a few exceptions, I usually take a newly acquired gun down & inspect all the components & sometimes fine tune a part if I feel the need, simply because that's my way.



Well, maybe.........



Don't confuse "weaknesses" with piss poor workmanship or parts fitted incorrectly.

Yes, 1911's do need to be fitted correctly, if you want to call that a weakness, but once done right they will run.........usually for a very long time.

The biggest "weaknesses" 1911's have today is the people who shouldn't own them, owning them & talking about their "weaknesses".

MM

Which mags do you reccomend?

I did own a stock STI Ranger that ran fine for about 80-90 rounds then needed cleaning. And a Kimber 1911-22 that didn't like to be dirty and only ran on high velocity ammo. But that one probably shouldn't count since it strays from the 1911 design.

Like I said, I want to like them and have shot a few, just haven't found one that I'd call as reliable as a Sig or M&P or Glock.

Tripp Cobra Mags

Tripp Research

Wilson 47D's are also very,very reliable in most guns.

There's just a lot of little things & interactions on a 1911 that need to be correct.....the extractor (several aspects), ejector, ejection port, breech face of the slide smooth, disconnector head free of burrs, top locking lugs on the barrel & the slide need to be burr free, fitted right & the edges broken, right spring, etc. & of course the magazines, the feed ramp & the relationship of the feed ramp to the barrel & the barrel's throat.

The chamber, bottom of the barrel hood & the feed ramp (on a steel framed gun) should be highly polished, IMO.

Lots of people have a real tendency to think that a super power recoil spring is the answer to all feeding / failure to return to battery issues with 1911's but that, many times, is not the answer & many times, makes it worse.

I use 16 or 17 lb variable rate springs with a square bottom firing pin stop for all but a steady, long term diet of +P 230 grain loads, as I believe in the lightest spring that the gun will reliably function with & not hammer the frame is best........the original GI spring spec is 16 lb & much of reliable feeding & ejection is about timing & slide speed is a part of that equation.

Also lots of feeding issues, which sometimes result in a failure to return to battery, can be related to the follower angle & the angle that the round is presented to the chamber.

That's part of the reason that magazines like the Tripp work so consistently is because of the deep follower that keeps each round's orientation straight & consistent.

MM

Also the feed ramp needs to be the correct distance. The only colt frame that I have was seat length sensitive. I removed a few thousands maintaining the exact angle. Now feeds any ammo without a hitch.
A 1911 that is correct in its specs is not magazine sensitive in my experience.

Only 1911A1 that I have had that needed nothing to run is a Springfield Loaded in Stainless. All mags work, feeds anything from ball to hollow points. I did change the back strap to the arched one, but that is my preference, nothing to do with function. Glocks work, but I do not like the "fit" that is more important to me.

It seems that's out of fashion or even frowned upon.

Every firearm that's going to be a shooter for me gets that treatment at the very least - shotguns, rifles, and handguns. Glocks included. I can't remember the last semi-auto that didn't get worked with JB and Kroil before the first trip to the range.

Yes, I think the new mantra is "take it out of the box & go shoot 5,000 rounds with it today."

But again, taking it down for inspection implies than one knows what one is looking at when checking parts............

MM

Not everyone knows what to look for, myself included on a 1911. I can see burrs that don't belong but know nothing about the platform. That's why I enlisted the help of a good friend to set this one up and we are getting close. I got into this one cheap enough that it'll make a nice learning project.

But to pay $1000 or more and have to finish a pistol is unacceptable.

I changed followers in 4 mags last night, went out and shot 9 different mags this morning. My Colt mags may be the biggest part of the problem after all. The remaining 5 mags ran fine. It's off to have a few more details ironed out and I need to get a new grip safety fitted (this one is chewing my hand up). I found 47D's on sale at Brownells last night and have some of the coming in. Once it's all done I'll post it up and see where we stand.