Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats custom action vs trued up remington?

I picked up a tubegun in 308 a couple of months ago. It is an ellesio RTS with a rem 700 LTR barreled action with a jewel trigger. I had great hopes for it but it has not proven to be as accurate as I had hoped. Factory and reloads alike the best I can get is 3/4-1” groups at 100 yards.

Now I have been planning on fixing it up. I have been looking at a bartlein 1-11.25 twist #14 barrel. My decision now is do I get the remington action I already have trued up and rebarrel or should I go all out and get a custom action. The pierce engineering tube gun action. They where designed to work with the RTS chassis.

So whats the better way to go, drop the cash for a custom action and barrel or safe the money, true up the face of the remington action and install the barrel, and use the money saved to invest in a suppressor.

How much of a difference does a custom action really make?

Josh,
I would guess the intended purpose for the rifle and how much you are willing to spend for that purpose would dictate which way to go. However, I can tell you that a truly well trued Remington will shoot right along side of custom actions.
In looking at the cost of truing, real truing, plus the original cost of the rem factory action, you could buy a custom action. Both would require a custom barrel.
It really just boils down to how much you are willing to spend for that last.01 reduction in groups size.
I have both trued Rems, 40-xs and custom actions, when the work is done correctly there just isn't a lot of difference.

Just one guy's opinion.

Bill

I have both custom and trued and there are pros/cons to each. When Remingtons are trued, you really need to ask what is being performed. If all that is being performed is truing lugs, abutments, face and threads, you still may have the issues of enlarged firing pin hole on bolt face as well as incorrect bolt timing regarding camming. These are questions I would pose to your smith. However, the parts and footprint of a Remington action are like a small-block Chevy and will always exist. A worked over Remington will feel much smoother/easier to manipulate but still doesn't have quite the feel of a custom action.

Custom actions are nice but I've yet to find one that has all features I'm looking for. You also run into compatibility issues even though they are Remington clones. Think scope bases and triggers here.

Lastly, ask yourself this. Are you into keeping your rifle long term or selling it when you get bored with it? Trued Remingtons do not have the resale of a custom action. Think about this if you ever decide to sell. Good luck with your project.

For a hunting rifle, IMO, anything beyond squaring up the receiver face, bolt face, cleaning up the threads and lapping in the lugs (or better yet, cutting the bolt lugs for even contact) is wasting money that you'll very likely never see an accuracy improvement over a custom action. Even if the smith charged you $250 dollars for this (on the high side, very high side) you'll be saving yourself hundreds over a custom clone. Hart Barrels does most of what I just outlined included in their price of a re-barrel job.

Owned both - no issues with accuracy.
Want the best? Custom. ROI? Custom.

Limited funds? Not shooting BR?
Un-trued Remington w custom bbl, stock, and Shilen or Timney.
Yes, spin a good bbl well chambered on and smile.

You can also do the same w a Howa or Vanguard 2 and get a one piece bolt.

Or simply buy a Tikka and only change stock

Josh,
Send it to Pierce.

My Pierce action is wonderful and the rifle John built for me is the most accurate I have ever fired.

John spent a lot of time getting the tube guns right. This article explains it well:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...hoots-in-the-ones-with-factory-6br-ammo/

405wcf

With a custom action - you're paying to have something that's perfect.

Here's the question - what happens if it isn't? Then it's a he said/he said with the maker and gunsmith about who can or can not read a dial indicator (anyone worth their salt is going to verify the action is true - regardless of custom mfg).

You either have to pay to have a custom trued or wait for a replacement.

OR

You can simply true the Remington by a good smith and KNOW it's right without the wait/fuss. Sure, if you try and resell it's not the same/sexy as stating you're selling a custom but you're gonna lose your butt anyway so...

Even with a 700 there is no guarantee that it will be trued.......even by a good smith, It would be nice to be able to trust a smith to true it correctly but how is the end user going to verify?

If it shoots little bitty groups...but even if they didn't touch it and just spun a new barrel on it may still shoot little bitty groups...Get it, shoot it, if you're happy then move on to the next build

Never been sorry I went with custom barreled actions.

Predictability is the #1 appreciated trait of customs.

I have 2 280 AI's being built right now.

One is on a Borden action and being chambered and barreled by Borden. Will have a Hart barrel and Jewell trigger. Per Jim's advice the barreled action will be sent to Tom Meradith to be bedded into a Macmillan stock.

Gun number 2 is being done by Redneck on a 700 action with a Timney trigger, Bartlein barrel, and Manners stock being also bedded by Tom Meradith.

Really have no expectations as to which rifle will be a better shooter. If cost is the determinant, it should clearly be the Borden. I have wanted a full custom Borden hunting rifle for years. I have also wanted to have Redneck do work on a rifle for me. He gave me advice on a previous rifle and I found him to be fairly priced, knowledgeable, and polite. We will see what happens. Will not be apples to apples as the Bartlein #3 taper will be beefier than the Hart #3 going on the Borden.

When I had my .300 RUM built, Greg Tannel told me in the end it would cost effective to get a new custom action. In the end he was right. The cost of working up a Remington makes it on par with the custom especially as the threads will be cut slightly larger, and the bolt and firing pin bushed.

The Remington when fully worked over is made to be as close to perfect as possible, whereas the custom is already perfect from the factory.

1:11.25" twist? Really? Somebody tossed the runes?

Or is supposed to be.

I've not spun bullets too fast

Re: Rem - if you are going to pay for trueness, hard to overlook custom as a base

True, I should have added that qualifier.

The group buy that Chad Dixon of Long Rifles has going over on Sniper's Hide is about as inexpensive of a truing job I've seen.
For around $750 you'll get his full boat of accurizing, 8-40 scope base holes, recoil lug resurfaced, bolt fluted, barrel chambered and installed, and a full cerakote job.

I've read right here that even custom actions, from time to time, need a touch up on the receiver face, although much less likely. In the tactical rifle builder circles, there is a guy name Mike Rescigno, owner of Tactical Operations, who builds rifles that are considered by many to be the most accurate tactical rifle made today. Many articles have been written about the extreme accuracy of his Tango 51. His rifles are guarantied to shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yrds using factory Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Mike uses 700 actions and Krieger barrels. One of the things that Mike believes to contribute to the accuracy of his rifles is to "remove as much influence as possible the receiver has on a build...". He also believes that using absolutely min spec chamber reamers yields a more accurate rifle too.


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@OP, Depends on intended purpose. If you are strictly hunting, and it already shoots 1" or better with whatever you feed it, go kill stuff. If you are casual target shooting and money is a consideration, rework and rebarrel the Rem action. If money is no object and you want the smallest possible groups, as mentioned above, send it off to a reputable builder for a full custom build.

For me, if I wanted smaller groups, I would start with a new barrel. I've only had 5 or 6 custom barrels. But all of the custom barrels I've had installed to replace factory barrels shot significantly better than the factory barrels they replaced. "Significantly better" = smaller groups, easier load development, less picky about components, minimal fouling.

Josh,

What do you know about that gun's history?

Target guns can get shot a LOT more than hunting guns. The seller may have gotten all the good out of that barrel, rolled the gun rather than upgrading the tube.

First thing I'd do is look down the barrel with a Hawkeye borescope. That may tell the story. Was the action trued originally and can you contact the original smith?

Lots of questions...

DF