Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Who sights in their rifle at "FTFOI" range?

Jack O'Connor?

Didn't he write about head shooting deer with a 22 centerfire?

So, which is it; 2.5" or 3.0" high at 100?

Oh, and for MPBR, it really does take a bit more than that - you need to know the BC of the bullet, for one, and velocity for another. A ballistics calculator busts a lot of old myths as does actually field shooting.

Upon either initial sight-in or any changes to components of either the rifle or the ammo or a cleaning, I spend whatever is the requisite amount of time/shots for a dead-on 200yd zero. Once done, the rifle is unlikely to see a bench or paper target again. After that it's either steel @ distance from field positions to verify drop charts or targets of opportunity, again from field positions.

dead on at 200, verify clicks at 100, 300, 400, 450,500, 550 and 600 at a minimum.

But 600 is as far as I can easily go out the back door.

Have I told you lately...


YOU SUCK!!!!

2 to 2.5 inch high with my Big Game Rifles and 1.5 to 2.0 inch high with my Varmint Rifles

My new backyard has enough room to stretch out a bit. ...

I zero at 200 yds. Where I hunt the longest shot I'll have is about 250 so 200 works well. I used to do the 3" high at 100 yds zero but when I actually shot them at 200 I found they didn't usually agree with the drop charts, sometimes they were 5-6" off. Scope height & other issues make it problematic to shoot longer range based upon a 100 yd sight in. You really need to shoot at longer ranges unless you're going to limit yourself to 100 yd shots on game.

Yep around here he would be in juvenile detention, and you would get a 100.00 ticket. BB guns, slingshots, bow and arrow and even blow guns are illegal in the city limits. Cant even shoot em in your garage.

99% of the land in this state is private. You are liable for any bullet that leaves your property for any reason.

All federal lands where you can shoot out to 500+ are off limits due to fire hazard.

Ted Turner owns all the land with good dog towns now, so you have to go to S.D.

Almost all deer are shot within 200 yards due to property lines.

The 2 ranges that offer 500+ are a 100 miles away, open on a 1 or 2 shoots to the public a year, but you can buy a membership for 350.00 a year.

Had a range out to 600 for 25 years, then the farmers started retiring and dying, sold the land off into acreages to a few people that didn't like guns or my shooting so they harassed me with cops and lawyers until I closed it and sold out after 2 years.
So now I am restricted to a club that only goes out to 300, and the 300 is open only at certain times do to the encroachment of acreages. Imagine that.

If you can fine, but I would imagine there are more that cant, then there are that can in this shooting world.

True, however isn't some sort of standard needed? For instance, if you do range estimation the old school way vs. packing yet another gadget, what is your point of reference?

Which is easier, asking yourself if a buck is less than 100 yards, or whether it might be less than 138 yards? I understand your system, it just seems to throw an unnecessary calculation (guesstimate) into the mix.

Standards like that are almost arbitrary.

At one time, I did all my work in meters.

When I feel like really going eccentric, I do chains and links for distance.

But going back to the BDC reticles. Most of them are good at approximating 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 OR 200-600, but never dead on if someone were splitting hairs, they end up with 100, 210, 305, or some other "close enough" number.

So does it really matter anymore where you sight in, because ultimately, you either dial it in, which makes zero range arbitrary, or you BDC will never be "balls on" which makes your baseline arbitrary as well, and everything "close enough"

Given resources available to properly determine range performance, and the ability to put time in to confirm "at range" performance, I think the only reason people still hold a 100 or 200 yard target is simply to post pics for reference.

Which isn't a bad thing, just an observation.


Edit to add, I recall working on a bedding issue with a gun and my resource for sage advice asked me what range I was shooting and how bad were the fliers.

I told him 150 yards (it was actually 153).

I don't think in conversation when he's asked what range I was shooting at, that I have ever given him the same number twice.

Many of my rifles have dots. I will do the first zero at 200 using the crosshair. but I wait for a good calm day and do the final zero at 300 using the correct dot. I will be off a bit at 200 and 400 but pretty dam close. I have used 400 yds too, but I find its not always easy to spot the impacts and its a long walk.

That's the way I set mine up also...

using a little logic, an antelope is 14 inches from breast bone to back bone... ( a white tail is a little larger and mule deer a little larger still, so an antelope size works for those also)

if I take that 14 inches and cut it in half, it gives me a 7 inch window of opportunity...

so if I zero a scope at 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, and know my MV, a ballistic chart will tell me at what distance that bullet will be at when it is 3.5 inches low.... that will tell me my point blank range.

if he is out there at 200 yds or so, aim a little lower then...

but if you are aiming on hair and hold it steady, you should be able to hit the vitals...

once this is accomplished.... I just spend time practicing at various distances out in the woods or at the range....

that is why it is called knowing your equipment.


before the "great 22 LR shortage", I would also spend a ten day period right before hunting season and go out and shoot my CZ 452 at paper targets are 100 yds off hand... 100 rounds a day.. do a couple, skip a couple...

but after 1000 rounds of 22 LR, its amazing how well one can get their trigger finger and shooting eye tuned up, and tightening those groups up....


or one can do like many of our locals... show up at the range...
shoot one shot out of old Betsy at a target at 50 yds, and if they hit it, they figure they are good to go...

or the Magnum Crowd that shows up night before season, with the BIG Scope they bought at Cabelas on top.... shoot up 3 or 4 boxes of Walmart Ammo.... and hit the target half a dozen times, and they figure anything within 800 yds is food on the table...

I sight in at exactly 100 yards with varying relief above bullseye for 200 yard zero or 300 yard zero for my mags.

After sighting in, I practice at 200 and 300 yards in various positions (prone, seated, shooting sticks, off-hand). I've never met an antelope, elk or deer that will give me the time to set up a table and sand bags.

I practice target acquisition, breathing and sight picture in first dry fire and then live ammo to save $$ and my shoulder. You'd be amazed how much better you shoot offhand with regular practice. You'd never go bird hunting without busting some clays would you?

I get a lot of practice, but I guess part of the routine (and not necessarily a planned one) is that I always vary the target distance.

Not by design, its just that I walk out and put the target holder down "where ever" or against whatever, then get back and either range it or calc a range, then shoot.

I am frankly surprised at the amount of "by-guess-and-by-golly" sight-in wisdom I come across time and again... and this thread is no exception.

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all sight-in formula for all rifles and all calibers... "two/three inches at a hundred is all you need to know" is, frankly, laziness and equivalent to rifleman's malpractice. If all you plan to do is plink at cans or other targets, no big deal. But if you're going to actually shoot living critters (and I include varmints, they deserve a quick humane death no less than deer or other edible game) you owe it to them to know exactly where your rifle shoots at any range that you are going to shoot at game.

Ballistics tables can be generated in seconds for YOUR rifle and YOUR load. Try http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart for example. You can punch in various zero ranges for your load & rifle and come up with your optimum zero in less time than it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

I've used similar tables to work up zero's and effective ranges for all my hunting rifles. Here's some examples:

1. Winchester 270 WSM, 140 gr Accubond @ 3200 fps: I have this rifle/load zero'd at 300 yards, or 3" high at 100 yards. This puts maximum height above bore at 200 yards (3.9") and at 400 yards I'm only 8 inches below boreline; this gives me a "point-blank" range out to 360 yards or so, and with a bit of elevation adjustment, I'm able to hit MOA out to 450 yards with confidence, and have taken deer and antelope at up to 420 yards.

2. Savage M99 308 Win, 150 gr Partition @ 2800 fps: this rifle/load is zero's at 225 yards, or 2.5" high at 100. Trajectory in this case gives me maximum of 2.6" high at 150, and I'm 6" low at 300. I rarely shoot at game with this rifle farther than 250 yards, but can hit at 300 with confidence. My longest kill shot at game with this rifle/load was 275 yards.

3. Winchester M1886 45-70 Govt, 300 gr Ballistic Silvertip @2200 fps. I zero this rifle/load at 150 yards, or 2" high at 100. Trajectory is 1.3 inches high at 50 and 5" low at 200. This gives me a confident "point-blank" range of out to 200 yards, although I have not had the opportunity to take any game with it farther than 100 yards.

Well Doc,

you make a simple point... KNOWING YOUR EQUIPMENT can go a LONG way...

You can do more if you want, but for modern cartridges of the 30-06 and .308 class and all their derivatives, the 2.5 to 3 inches high rule of thumb works. Sight it in at that and you can hold on hair out to 300 yards. Then just practice.

Sure, there might be a few inches of difference here and there, but I usually use a 4x scope. The width of the crosshair at 300 yards is usually more than the difference you might get in the point of impact.

Sight in 2.5 to 3 inches high at 100 and then go practice. If you are not going to shoot at greater than 400 yards, everything else is mental masturbation. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that form of mental masturbation if you are into that sort of thing. Everyone has to have a hobby and one thing or the other to get anal retentive about.

I like hitting what I'm aiming at. And I'm not going to guess past 300 yards.

I sighted in my 30-06 for 200. My Leupold scope has a couple dots below the X-hair. The top one is perfect for 300. I haven't had it long enough to try 400 yet but I think the lower dot will be too high. It's probably good for about 350, just guessing.