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No, I don't speak out of ignorance. Believe it or not, there are laws against murder where that shopkeeper was. If he had been caught, he surely would have been punished. Murder is and pretty much always has been proscribed against by all societies. Now, it is true that the application of those laws has left much to be desired in many places, but there have been few to no places in the history of the world that said that murder was acceptable.


Continuing to speculate, I see. YOu didn't read the Old Testament or you would know what I am talking about.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
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No, I don't speak out of ignorance. Believe it or not, there are laws against murder where that shopkeeper was. If he had been caught, he surely would have been punished. Murder is and pretty much always has been proscribed against by all societies. Now, it is true that the application of those laws has left much to be desired in many places, but there have been few to no places in the history of the world that said that murder was acceptable.


Continuing to speculate, I see. YOu didn't read the Old Testament or you would know what I am talking about.


No, I'm not speculating at all. Goodness, you would argue with a fencepost. Murder, has been illegal in every society in the world. Now, you would be correct if you said that what was defined as murder didn't always fit our definition of murder. For instance, a Roman father could kill his child and it wasn't murder. A Spartan could kill a helot and so on and so forth. But, murder, however defined, has always been illegal.

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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by carbon12
Originally Posted by JoeBob


No, it isn't an inconsistency. Slavery was an accepted institution in every society. Murder was accepted in none.


Are you arguing that the Bible, the objective arbiter of morality, then and now, remained silent on slavery because slavery was an acceptable institution in every society?

Isn't that the same as saying that society dictated morality instead of God of the Bible?

That is assuming that the Christian God is silently against slavery as any enlightened Christian should fervently hope he is.

Otherwise, slave owning Christians have no need to feel guilty about enslaving anyone nor think badly of anyone else that owns slaves. Just like in the good old days.





I knew you would go there. Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor as you do yourself. If you today can figure a way to love your neighbor as you do yourself and own a slave, then I invite you to it.


Thy neighbor is a reference to other Jews, not all human being. Hence this instruction would not be a prohibition against ill treatment of people from other tribes, such as we see with all the genocide and slaughter in the Old Testament. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors stuff, but according to your divine command theory, it's perfectly acceptable to covet the property and virgin girls of another tribe, and kill them all to get it.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by carbon12
Originally Posted by JoeBob


No, it isn't an inconsistency. Slavery was an accepted institution in every society. Murder was accepted in none.


Are you arguing that the Bible, the objective arbiter of morality, then and now, remained silent on slavery because slavery was an acceptable institution in every society?

Isn't that the same as saying that society dictated morality instead of God of the Bible?

That is assuming that the Christian God is silently against slavery as any enlightened Christian should fervently hope he is.

Otherwise, slave owning Christians have no need to feel guilty about enslaving anyone nor think badly of anyone else that owns slaves. Just like in the good old days.





I knew you would go there. Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor as you do yourself. If you today can figure a way to love your neighbor as you do yourself and own a slave, then I invite you to it.


Thy neighbor is a reference to other Jews, not all human being. Hence this instruction would not be a prohibition against ill treatment of people from other tribes, such as we see with all the genocide and slaughter in the Old Testament. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors stuff, but according to your divine command theory, it's perfectly acceptable to covet the property and virgin girls of another tribe, and kill them all to get it.


Show me where Jesus limited his teachings to Jews. Show it to me. Would it be where he told the story of the good Samaritan? That story shows that Jews are superior in all ways and that Jesus only cared for them, right?

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Originally Posted by JoeBob

Show me where Jesus limited his teachings to Jews. Show it to me. Would it be where he told the story of the good Samaritan? That story shows that Jews are superior in all ways and that Jesus only cared for them, right?


The God of the OT was the God of one chosen tribe, the Jews. So when Jesus uses the OT terms such as "thy neighbor" he's using them in that context.

If you want to observe a NT book with a highly Jewish point of view, read Matthew.

As for the story of the Good Samaritan, as I recall, it's not in the oldest and best manuscripts, and was added much later.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/07/15.

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In the words of Jesus himself:

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Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"

He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with all your mind, [Deuteronomy 6:5]; and your neighbour as yourself [Leviticus 19:18]."

He said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live."

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbour?"



Quote
Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."


You don't argue with me. You argue with Jesus.

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Originally Posted by JoeBob
In the words of Jesus himself:

Quote
Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"

He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with all your mind, [Deuteronomy 6:5]; and your neighbour as yourself [Leviticus 19:18]."

He said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live."

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbour?"



Quote
Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."


You don't argue with me. You argue with Jesus.


You argue with God:

Leviticus 25:44: ” ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Jesus was God.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Right, except for you "Good Southern Christians" who used the bible to justify owning another human being so long as when you beat them they didn't die for a day or two....


Tell me again about that great atheist awakening that put an end to slavery in the US & Britain.

Oh. wait, never mind. That didn't happen.


It was called "The Enlightenment".


Throughout history supposed christians have used the Bible and twisted it around for their causes. That does not make then "Good Christians" that just makes them a$$ holes who twist the Bible to fit their needs. Christians, that is those who really believe and do their best to follow Christ and His teachings understand the those who twist and pervert the Bible will receive their due.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by BarryC
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Right, except for you "Good Southern Christians" who used the bible to justify owning another human being so long as when you beat them they didn't die for a day or two....


Tell me again about that great atheist awakening that put an end to slavery in the US & Britain.

Oh. wait, never mind. That didn't happen.


It was called "The Enlightenment".


Throughout history supposed christians have used the Bible and twisted it around for their causes. That does not make then "Good Christians" that just makes them a$$ holes who twist the Bible to fit their needs. Christians, that is those who really believe and do their best to follow Christ and His teachings understand the those who twist and pervert the Bible will receive their due.


Scott, the passages on slavery are pretty straight forward. No twisting necessary.

Never once does Jesus say you should not own another human being as property, and to the contrary he actually commands slaves to serve their masters faithfully, even the cruel ones.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/07/15.

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Yep, I understand that. However I believe the christians who held slaves in this country still perverted the Word. What ever happened to the year of jubilee? That was a little loophole that was overlooked.


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Antelope Sniper where is your source for that information re: the parable of the Good Samaritan? The English Standard Version notes make no mention of it and the contents of that teaching in its broader context directly refute what you're proposing.

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Originally Posted by Scott F
Yep, I understand that. However I believe the christians who held slaves in this country still perverted the Word. What ever happened to the year of jubilee? That was a little loophole that was overlooked.


Slavery in this country denied the humanity of those enslaved.

Talk about a perversion of the word of God, in whose image those people were created.

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Originally Posted by Scott F


Throughout history supposed christians have used the Bible and twisted it around for their causes. That does not make then "Good Christians" that just makes them a$$ holes who twist the Bible to fit their needs. Christians, that is those who really believe and do their best to follow Christ and His teachings understand the those who twist and pervert the Bible will receive their due.


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Yep!


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


If you want to observe a NT book with a highly Jewish point of view, read Matthew.


Ok:

My 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


So did Jesus mean only domestic enemies?

Have you considered that those practices of the OT were acceptable only due to their immediate context when God's people were explicitly commanded by Him to commit them?

God cannot contradict Himself; if you're a Trinitarian believer you cannot set up this double double talking God like you're doing here.

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Originally Posted by Scott F
Yep, I understand that. However I believe the christians who held slaves in this country still perverted the Word. What ever happened to the year of jubilee? That was a little loophole that was overlooked.


The seven year rule only applied to Jewish slaves.

If the slaves came from another land, such as Africa, you didn't have to release them after 7 years. And for Jewish slaves, females could be owned forever (the 7 year rules only applied to men), but if you have a males slave a wife, at the end of his 7 years he had to decide if he was going to leave his wife, or say with her, and his kids. If he decided to stay with them, he became the masters property forever.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Your "understanding" of the Bible and Christianity is perverted by your disdain and, likely, hatred of it. I strongly doubt it is obtained by a Biblical study, but from books whose sole purpose is to demean and trivialize the Bible and related faiths. As such, discussing Bible borne faith and matters with you is futile, as you have no faith and no valid understanding of the Bible. I believe the only reason you post on and start threads related to faith, is to demean that faith and primarily to persuade the weak in their faith, that such "nonsense" is invalid. Obviously, some believe they may persuade you otherwise and bring you to the light, so to speak. I've long kicked off the dust from those sandals and know the only way you will find faith is the hard way, if at all, as pride will not permit otherwise.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about the religion of Atheism, right?


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

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Originally Posted by RickyD
Your "understanding" of the Bible and Christianity is perverted by your disdain and, likely, hatred of it. I strongly doubt it is obtained by a Biblical study, but from books whose sole purpose is to demean and trivialize the Bible and related faiths. As such, discussing Bible borne faith and matters with you is futile, as you have no faith and no valid understanding of the Bible. I believe the only reason you post on and start threads related to faith, is to demean that faith and primarily to persuade the weak in their faith, that such "nonsense" is invalid. Obviously, some believe they may persuade you otherwise and bring you to the light, so to speak. I've long kicked off the dust from those sandals and know the only way you will find faith is the hard way, if at all, as pride will not permit otherwise.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about the religion of Atheism, right?


Even if your post is true and accurate on all points, it would simply mean that he's doing exactly the same and for the same reasons as most of the "christians" here do with, for, and to any other belief systems (or even certain sects of Christianity itself). The shoe doesn't feel so good when it's on the other foot, now does it?


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Even if your post is true and accurate on all points, it would simply mean that he's doing exactly the same and for the same reasons as most of the "christians" here do with, for, and to any other belief systems (or even certain sects of Christianity itself). The shoe doesn't feel so good when it's on the other foot, now does it?
Your post, although nonsensical, is immaterial to me. Obviously, you feel the same disdain for most of the "christians" here since that is what you just said. Not that I could care less, because as to what you think, I don't.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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