Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles CZ Carbine 223: 1:12? Or Spend More On the 1:9 Twist?

I'm looking to buy a CZ Carbine (18.5" barrel with iron sights) in .223 Rem. I like the short length, light weight, and I think it will make an excellent walkabout varmint rifle. I don't really anticipate even using a .223 on deer (I have plenty of other rifles to use), but I kind of like the idea of being able to shoot the heavier bullets if I choose to (for whatever reason I haven't figured out yet). I think it would also help re-sale later on down the road, since I think a lot of people look for the 1:9" twist (and conversely it seems that the 1:12" twist has a bit of a stigma). The 1:9" will be roughly $50-$100 more than the 1:12".

I'd like to hear some thoughts from others on whether or not they think the faster twist in .223 is worth the extra cash or not?

I can tell you this for a fact.
The 1 in 12 will stabilize a Federal Premium 60 grain Partition.
And that round will blw through a deer broadside at 150 Yards .

I personally dont think that a person would want more on short range deer IF you decided to use it for Deer hunting.
If you dont use it for deer hunting the twist is again just fine for the lighter shorter bullets.

Long story short I think the 1 in 12 is fine and no I wouldn,t pay extra for the 1 in 9.

You haven,t even bought the rifle and already worried about resale ? LOL Just kidding !

Craig

If I could get the 1 in 9" for $50 more that's what I would probably do.

I'd pay the extra for the 1-9", just to hedge my bets and not worry about whether a bullet will stabilize or not.

I own and have hunted with the CZ 527 carbine. From the bench it is quite accurate, though in loading I could never get the partitions to do better than 2" @ 100yds. It is light and maneuverable, but the iron sights leave much to be desired.

The major problem I have had with mine is handling in the field. I may be the weight or the weight distribution, simply, the rifle does not come to the shoulder like my other rifles do. I have missed 4 bucks over the last two seasons with it. All were unexpected shots taken from a standing position. Same situation later in the season, insert the savage 99, things turn out differently.

Could just be me and my particular body not matching the rifle. If I had to do it again I would likely go for the 1:9 with a 22" barrel. Have yet to need the iron sights so the lack of them on the varminter is not an issue. I was also attracted by the detachable magazine, but it seems unimportant now Also understand the safety is opposite of the norm, forward=safe, back=fire on the CZ.

I'm not trying to turn you off of the CZ, just letting you know about the aspects that have bothered me. If I bought one tomorrow it would probably be this,
http://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeStandard/specSheets/37117.html

Just my $.02

Thanks for the insight guys. I have a number of CZ rifles from .22 LR to .458 WM. I'm familiar with their safety quirks and their sometimes rough feel in the action when new (hey! it's a Mauser after all). For me, this will mostly be a coyote and groundhog rifle. I just sold my CZ 527 Varmint because I wanted a lighter rifle for hauling around all day in the summer heat. I'm hoping the carbine is the answer. I appreciate both sides of the fence on the twist and welcome any further discussion to help me make a decision...

My rifle would do an inch for 3 shots with the Federal Premium 60 grain Partitions at 100 yards with a 4x Leupold scope.

I dont know about stabilization of Longer or heavier bullets but with the 60 grain partion and the 53 grain Barnes bullet(which the 1 in 12 also handles just fine) a man really has all he needs for deer in my oppinion.
BUT oppinions vary .

Heavier bullets aren't just for deer. They buck the wind better at distance. As far as twist and heavy bullets are concerned, a bullet that's on the ragged edge of stability usually isn't nearly as accurate at long range as one that's very stable. I've gotten 77gr bullets to stabilize in a 1 in 9" barrel but they never shot as well as they did in a 1 in 7".

When I got into shooting .223's the 1 in 12" was pretty much the standard. For me these day's a 1 in 9" is as slow as I'll consider. There just isn't much down side to going with a faster twist and for me a lot to gain.

There is nothing wrong with a 1 in 12" twist but I just don't think they are as versatile.

I am considering the CZ 527 M1 version of the 223. From their Webb site: 1:9, 21.9", an almost flush 3rd magazine, 6.4 lb and $665 USD in blue and walnut. I don't like the safety, but my other choice is a Sako at around $2000. That makes me think the CZ just might work.

Jack

Money is a poor reason to choose a 1-12" over a 1-9"

HOLD THE PRESS. the cz site says the ..223 carbine is 1:9 and it's MSRP is $733, looks like sights or rings are the same price as the American comes with rings in a 1:9 at the same price. Looks like they are finally moving away from the 1:14.

Jack

A 1-9 is as slow as I would look at, a 1-8 even better....

Get the cheapest one you can.

Then rebarrel it faster.

RWE not a fan of CZs? That's a shame...I've never had anything but excellent accuracy from them.

I'm thinking I'll throw in the extra cash and just get the 1:9" twist. It appears even the used market for the 1:12" seem to be $550 (plus shipping) and up. I can get a new 1:9" for $645 shipped to the FFL, and that seems like a good deal. I will more than likely never shoot anything bigger than 55grs out of it, but it will be nice to have the faster twist for the "just in case factor".

I appreciate everyone's insight and opinions...

I was just being supercilious.

Actually, I was thinking of getting a 527 LH for myself.

I use a 22 centerfire (222 at the moment) for almost all my local hunting, deer included.

Haha Fair enough! Me personally, if it's not a CZ, it's a Husqvarna and if it's not a Husqvarna, it's an old Mauser of some sort. I love a classy bolt gun.

I would for sure get the 1:9 and never look back or second guess myself. You won't "over stabilize" the bullets and it should shoot anything pretty well.

Is this the on that you are talking about?
CZ 03084 223 1:9 M1

The pic shows synthetic but the description states walnut. I googled CZ 03084 and some dealers list walnut and some synthetic.

One seller lists it at 5 3/4lbs... I'd mount the 3.5-10x42 Meopta that Doug has on special and call it good! I just might if they turn up in stock somewhere. I'd even consider the synthetic, depending on the details.

I ended up buying the Carbine .223 in 1:9 as well as another Carbine in 7.62x39. I had to hunt around but found some decent wood (a lot of retailers don't want to bother with sending you pictures).

I haven't had either to the range yet, but I'm very happy with the product based off of superficial standards. Great guns! Thanks to everyone for their advice.

~jaeger