FWIW hunt tale on a winter day. My grandson had a Roosevelt bull elk jump the string on a shot he made this Fall. At least that’s what we called it in my bow hunting days, when an animal dodged an arrow.

Grandson had a broadside shot ranged at 55 yards. He is deadly with his compound bow to 75 yards, but self limited his shots on game to 60 yards. With the bull standing still and in the open at 55 yards, grandson took the shot, aiming below center chest and tight behind the front leg.

He said that the bull appeared to stare at the approaching arrow and flinched away from it. The bull sucked back so that the arrow went through the brisket or lower neck, ahead of the leg bone instead of behind it. The recovered arrow was coated in blood, a pass through, and one blade edge was damaged from hitting bone.

Lots of bright blood, in pouring rain so grandson and his Dad decided to follow sooner than they would have preferred, at 50 minutes. They tracked the bull for two days. The first day they saw it twice without getting a shot. By late the first day the bull seemed to be recovering, moving normally when they saw it late in the day. The second day the blood trail ended and he was acting like a healthy elk.

Believe it or not, it's probably more common than not.
Yeah that's what we always called it, "Jumping the String"!
It's more common on Longer shots, naturally, as it gives the Animal,
a little more time to react to the Shot.

Being that proficient at his comfortable Ranges, I wouldn't stop,
taking those shots, as Long as He's that proficient at those Distances! IMO!

Arrows are loud.

I would say that he needs to cut his distance down to a reasonable 30 yards...
The sound will get there 4 times faster than the arrow. Targets don't move.
And if it does survive, great. We really have no way of knowing. But it is not a healthy elk. Now it is a wounded elk that is now vulnerable to infection and predators.

U R gonna miss every shot U don’t take.

But some shots shouldn’t be taken.

Everyone gets to learn this deal.

I got a lesson the last couple of days .

I sure wish illuminated nocks were legal in Idaho.

BTW …..I doubt a pass through brisket hit will be lethal. U got excellent drainage.

Talking about misses or lost game is not like confessing your sins.

There are very little redeeming qualities.

Happy Holidays

And shoot to kill.

We (Son and I),do spend a lot of Time, and effort, getting our gear as quiet as possible, so much as,
shooting together and advising each other on sound quieting techniques!
It's actually fun, and enjoyable to be able to spend that time together,and learn new techniques.

It's not for everyone, and Maybe a small percentage, as it does take a lot of time and practice to,
properly do it right, as the longer range shooting takes a lot Longer, (naturally), to perfect.
It takes a lot of Self Discipline to to practice long range hunting, shooting Techniques.

As a Rule Most Game is taken with a Bow under, or within 30 yds.
and I'd much rather take game within those Ranges, but Just in
case, I'd like to be able to get an Animal, successfully, and not wound it,
Rather than not get it, and not have that close to perfect shot,
that we'd all like!

Different Strokes

HS58

I doubt the bull saw the arrow , sound of the limbs thunking probably caused him to jump. I had a friend that shot a bull of a lifetime like that and we never recovered it after looking for two days for it as well. I'll bet it was hit in the same area of the body.

Fifty five yards is a long shot, regardless of how accurate you are on targets. Stuff happens.

I figured this would get some grief, but thought the real animal/real shot info was worth swapping with real hunters. Of course we will differ and disagree, otherwise no point in rehashng it, but we may learn or see another angle on it. The young man has passed a good many shots he considered iffy, shots many bow hunters say they would have taken. He’s disciplined and can live with his decisions, though of course wishes he could bring this one back.

Yep, 55 is long for any bow. I limited myself to 30 yards most of the time when hunting with a recurve decades ago. Parrallel to the long rangers with rifles, bow hunters now have vastly superior technology, with attendant ethical decisons about how far to use it.

Re the elk’s move: could be that he never saw the arrow and most such misses IME were from an animal reacting to sound. He said this one locked his eyes on the incoming arrow and appeared to be dodging away from the arrow with the suck back flinch. Who knows.

FWIW I have killed one 6x6 bull elk with a healed over broadhead in its shoulder, plus an old buck with an arrowhead in its chops against its spine, long healed over and encased in gristle. I’d give high probability that this bull recovered. By the time they gave up tracking him late on day 2, he was feeding, had joined a small herd, would lie down and leave hardly a trace of blood in the bed, and get up and move on long before the trackers caught up. He got up on his own, not jumped from the bed. Cut, yes. Fatal, very unlikely.

When hunting out west one often has to “stalk” the game.

These animals are not wound tighter than an 8 clock ready to spring like white tails that are under pressure like back east.

Often they are curious……the curiosity is over whelmed by fear eventually…….usually it’s about 60 yards they become uncomfortable. An elks vital area is perhaps 2.5 to three times as large as a whitetail doe.

If 30 yards is acceptable to whitetail hunting ……….
using minute of angle theory wouldn’t 75 yards be “acceptable “? For elk?

Just braying.

Interesting, especially the observation about them getting nervous at about 60 yards.

Grandson R. spotted the bull at 90 yards. He began to stalk it while his Dad edged back a ways and called. The bull came toward them in short moves with R. stalking closer when possible, but it hung up at 55 yards and acted as if it was going to leave.

He has a rifle set up for long range and shoots it well at 1000 yards. Opening day of deer season he had a decent buck in alpine huckleberries at 675 yards but was sure he could stalk closer. He killed it at 330 yards.

With archery, flight time is right up there with accuracy in the priority list.
Even with fast compounds, arrows ain't bullets.

Eastern tactics ain’t western tactics.

A lot of great points, brought up for Discussion.
Yes there's a big difference in how, the White tails react, compared to Elk!
Although, there are several similarities, between the two species.
I know for a Fact of an Eastern Hunter, who Shot a nice 330 inch Bull at 97 Yds 2 yrs ago! (No BS)
He's also a very good Hunter, and works hard at his hobby, and enjoys it,

HS58

Thanks for posting. If nothing else, your post stimulated some discussion. And I've got to say from reading your posts, if the grandson didn't "fall too far from the tree" I have no doubt he's an ethical hunter.

After thinking about this deal,

I have the following observations:

If you want to learn about this

As in every failure should be a learning opportunity.

You stated the grandson could tell the elk was acting like it wanted to leave.

I.E. agitated.

My suggestion is to:

1. De escalate the encounter……get small, dont move much.

2. Don’t shoot at an agitated fearful animal…..they will be prone to jump the string.

A 60 yard shot at a un alerted or unaware elk is certainly feasible.

If the animal is alerted and nervous …….

Maybe not.

Temple Granden has a lot to teach about animal behavior……

A hunter can maybe learn a lot.

Decoys for rutting elk can help.

and slow.

I was proficient in the 80s to 100 yards with a bow. The old round wheel bows. LOL.

And after quite a bit of hunting decided that while I could shoot, that bad things happened often past about 15-17 steps. So I started to limit my shots even though I was capable. Didn't have an issue after that.

Its one thing to be proficient. But noise of the arrow and time of flight can get you.

Watch animals. Even relaxed calm ones. Often when a bird flies by they flinch, Caught off guard.. They have to be that way to survive.

Now go listen to and arrow coming at you. With HUMAN ears that suck. Feathers are crazy loud. Vanes quieter. Factor in that I can flinch a tiny bit hearing an arrow coming.

Just makes no sense to push the limits.

Get close. And the shot is easier, and will work to almost 100% of the time then.

I won't go on a guided bow hunt because I'll be expected to shoot X yards. I have my own limits.

And if I don't get the shot I want, which is the same with any weapon, I won't shoot.

I"m not preaching, but simply saying from experience long with noisy slow arrows is not the thing. Especially when you consider speed of sound at 1100 fps and a fast arrow at 300.. you get the idea.

How many elk have you killed with a bow?

60 yards = 180 feet

Average bow speed 200 FPS

Maybe 25 years ago. It's been a long time since I have seen a bow other than a recurve or long bow shoot a hunting weight arrow that slow. Heavy aluminum arrows included.

Agreed

Were shooting just shy of 300 FPS with Carbon Arrows, and all of our Equipment Tuned to the Max!
I also left the Heavy Aluminum arrows Yrs ago to Carbon Arrows, completely changing all my Equipment, and Really updating and Changing with the Times!
We build our own Arrows, weigh everything, in Grams/Grains, Do all our own Tuning, as Mainly, Bow Shops are a thing of the past, like Everything else, especially good Bow Shops!
I really Don't need someone to BS me on my Gear, just for a Buck, and then when I'm in the Field, something might Fail, and I might not know why.
This Way My Son and I know our Equipment, and can Compare notes, and were able to spend the Time Together, as a very Rewarding Hobby!

I once Shot an 8 point Buck, white Tail, at 8 feet, away from me, as I was on the ground Still Hunting, a Corn Field in Ohio, with my Buddy, in my Favorite tree, about 300 yards away, on some Land that a couple of Farmers used to let Me Hunt, with Permission. I figured that I might be able to push some Deer his Way.
I watched that Deer walk in towards me, for a good bit, and then at about 3 yds, (8 ft. really), I drilled Him. I was Probably shooting around that 200 FPS, as was said earlier.
I was Using a Jennings Forked Lightning Bow, from the old Days, at about 62 lbs draw weight, and 140 grain Rocky Mountain ,4 blade Razors! That arrow blew clean through the Buck, Naturally, at that close Range, as the buck, turned Broadside, on an old access rd. next to the Corn. I used to still Hunt a lot, in Ohio, Bow Hunting, when I wasn't in a tree stand. It really, has Helped me Elk Hunting out West, as Still Hunting, is Mostly the preferred method, as most of you know. I'm no expert by any means, just another Hunter, who Enjoys the Sport, and is willing to share some experiences, and stories, and always willing to Learn from others, as I swore Back in the Day, I would only, shoot with Fingers, and Here I am, with a Release, as my Son Bought me a New Scott,
Finger Release for Christmas. Today, there are so many products on the Market, and were all a little Different. What might work for me, isn't necessarily, what you might like, or what works for you!
JMO!!!
Safe Hunting!

HS58

But how fast does an arrow decelerate?

If it leaves at 300 what is it doing 50 yards out?

But I totally agree the animal at 60 yards out has less than 0.75 seconds to react.

Good question. Faster than you'd think is my answer.

Just a lot of really good info and conversation here!
So we did some more shooting today, and getting adjusted more to the newer set up than I'm accustomed to.
Shooting some arrows through paper at a very close range, just to tune the bow as close to perfect as we can get.
Stripped the fletching off of an arrow, and made up the difference in weight, with a little electrical tape.
This has been our system for a long time, and it's not only proven but it works very well!
So it tells us the path of the arrow and helps us to tune the bow with the arrows,and visa versa.
Current set up; Bow Tech-Reign 7
Arrow Weight 377 Grains
Arrow Speed 277 FPS 64.2 Ft/Lbs. Arrow Drop
10 yds. 272.54 FPS. 62.1 Ft/Lbs. " " .5"
20 yds. 268.14 FPS. 60.1 Ft/Lbs. " " 0,9"
40 yds. 259.52 FPS. 56.3 Ft/Lbs. " " 1.8"
50 yds. 255.3 FPS. 54.5 Ft/Lbs. " " 2.3"
100 YDS. 235.06 FPS. 46.2 Ft/Lbs Arrow Drop 5.1"

So the plan is to keep working on Form, and Conditioning all Winter, and By spring to be able to Crank the Bow,
up Gradually, increasing the poundage, and everything else that will change with that along the way.
My Personal Goal at my older age is to eventually get up to 70 Lbs. Draw weight, and 300 FPS. Arrow Speed!
Naturally everything else will change with that and the Arrows will be quicker, and won't drop as much!
It's a Huge time commitment, and Dedication, like anything else, and I realize that it's not for everyone.
This is just the way My Son and I do it, along with a Few other guys, and it's a challenge.
It's not for everyone, and again, there's a huge Dedication to practice, and Time commitment,
almost to the point, it's a life style change, as far as dedicating the time to shoot, and practice, and keeping in shooting shape, and Condition!

OP

They don't see the arrow and duck under it, there's plenty of videos of game jumping the string without looking.

They hear the startling noise. They hear the bow. They hear the arrow. It spooks them and they bolt.

In doing so they squat down to get a good launch, as everything else does, even people. Everything gets lower, gets their CG down, so they can push off. That's all they're doing. It isn't The Matrix with Neo dodging bullets he sees coming.

The speed of sound is ~1125 fps, the noise is getting there far sooner than the arrow - with animals that are always on alert for predators 24/7/365 with phenomenal hearing and reflexes.

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Once Again I do Agree!