Took the model 70 featherweight out today to try 143 eld-x. I tried this load yesterday with 51.5gr of rl26. Upped it to 52.0gr of rl26, got better results even though the 51.5gr load was pretty good. These Winchester have a lot of freebore my bullets are seated at 3.110 for OAL.

Nice. I wanna give the 147’s a shot in mine. Got plenty of 26, seems like the Swede should be an animal with those.

Tag.

I'll give that load a go in my stainless featherweight

My sporter like's Accubonds.

Rifle appears to be shooting great buddy... Is that a BACO or classic? I'm held back a little on how hot I can run the loads in my old rifle. I have tried some 143 ELDX as well. They seemed to shoot well, but I did not have many on hand. Here's how the old girl ran those:

I'd have to double check my OAL, but I'm sure it's longer than yours, since my rifle may be a bit more worn in.. Ha ha.. Heres some other bullets it likes:
140gr ELDM:



140gr SST:


140gr Barnes match burner:


Danced around the X-ring with that load. Not real tight though..

The Swedish mauser is a great cartridge. I have nothing but good to say about it. Don't compare it to the creedmoor either. I like both cartridges very much, but there's no denying the Swedes were way ahead of their time when they developed that cartridge and rifle like my m96 with its fast twist barrel. You should post a pic of your rifle too buddy. Mine is an old one:

Lawrence, mine is in the classic featherweight.

Very nice. Looks like it's shooting great. Nice round group. Did you glass bed it, or leave the hot glue bedding?

It’s bedded a floated Winchester put 1-8 twist on these 6.5 Swede classics. But still put 1-9 twists on the 264 win mags in the classics.

That right there is on my "must have someday" list. What a beaut.

I think they are actually 1-7.75 from what I have seen/read. Odd how a company would spec a whole nother barrel for the same caliber. You'd figure them trying to make money would just try to get by with the same twist to save on redundant orders.

But my 9 twist 264 shoots darned well so I am not complaining too much.

I measured mine I got 1-8 but 1-7.75 close enough to 1-8. My 264 shoots 140 AB pretty good. But Like you why did Winchester use two different barrel twists.

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like a smart ass with the correction, I was just surprised they did the Swede so well. Hell, they put a 1-8 on my Supergrade 6.5 PRC.. Seems silly to have all of the different barrels, but whatever. Krieger makes new barrels everyday.

FN 98 Mauser Swede with Shilen barrel in a McWoody Classic Edge, Canjar trigger, Conquest 2.5-8x32 in Talley steel rings.

Loves the 139 Scenar in Lapua brass over MRP. It's a keeper.

DF

Scotty, its probably just old school mentality. Thinking the 264wm had to have a certain twist rate. Remember when the 244 remington came out, they found out the twist rate sucked, so they changed it and ten renamed it the 6mm remington? Their old school mentality led them to believe twist rates were set in stone for each cartridge, or something. The 6.5x55 was developed 130 years ago, and for the most part, the swedes chose a good fast twist rate: 1 in 7.87". Probably why Winchester chose a similar approach with their 1 in 7.5 or 1 in 8. I'm assuming they chose slower twist for the 264 because its quite a bit faster than the swede. So reaching optimum rpms to stabilize the bullets, were attained with the 1 in 9 barrel. Now days guys are shooting longer heavier bullets in rifles chambered in the 6.5 PRC, so a faster twist rate is desirable. I know I'm preaching to the choir though.

For sure. But you'd think company penny pinchers would just run the twist that works for them all. No real matter to me, but I find it interesting, especially in 2021.

I saw that not to long ago the 6.5 cm and 6.5 prc come with 1-8 twist. Good ol 264 still has the 1-9 twist.

Yup. Just dumb. Wished they’d put the 1-8 on the 270 Winchester like they are the 6.8 Western. How cool would that be? Talk about opening some doors to the old bird!

A few comments on this overall thread,

The 6.5x55 is NOT "the Swedish Mauser" cartridge--or worse yet, "the Swede." It was co-developed by the Norwegian and Swedish militaries, when they belonged to the same "combined kingdom." (That said, by a Norwegian, it is also not the 6.5x55 Norwegian Krag.)

When Remington screwed up and introduced the .244 with a 1-12 twist, they did NOT "correct" it by reintroducing the cartridge as the 6mm with a 1-10 twist. Instead they used a 1-9 twist--and at the same time started making their .243 Winchesters with a 1-9 twist, so they didn't have to produce barrels with two different twists.

The standard .270 Winchester 1-10 twist will handily stabilize spitzers in the 170-grain range at elevations 4000 feet above sea level--and probably somewhat lower. I know this because I've done it.

Cool stuff there MD. Didn’t know about it being a joint venture.

Also didn’t know that Remington used 1-9’s for their 243 Winchesters. I knew they use 1-9 1/4’s now but didn’t know about sharing the 1-9’s between the 6 and 243 back then. Any idea when they made the switch? Wonder why they settled on a 1-9 1/4?

I’ve tried the 170 Berger’s at near sea level and about 1500ft above in a 270 Win and 270 WSM with oblong’ish holes, keyholes and zero accuracy. Amazing what a few 1000 ft will do.

How’d the Berger’s hold up out at longer range for accuracy for you with the 170 EOL?

I agree.

3.110 is a good seating depth for the 147 IMO it puts that bullet in the case neck just perfect! Nice
load you ended up with. At 52 grains of RL26 I'd guess its pushing around the 2900 fps mark!

I have found RL 23 to be a phenominal powder in the 6.5X55 with 140, 143, and 147s as well

Trystan

My thoughts on the difference in twist rates, by Winchester...

1. the 264 Win Mag, still gets the old one in 9 twist, because it has enough ooomph to stablilize the long bullets in that twist range, but yet if it had a faster twist rate, with the amount of powder it can hold, I'm sure a 1 in 8 or faster, would vaporize 85 to 100 grain bullets ( most of them), especially running them at 3500 to 3700 fps or more.

2. The Swede/ Norwegian 6.5 x 55, getting the 1 in 8 or even 1 in 7.25 or 1 in 7.75, follows the old factory traditional twist, which was developed to shoot 160 grain bullets,
so it fits traditional, which allows the twist to make up for the more powder used in the 264 Win Mag... yet with the usual velocity recommended within the 6.5 x 55, it is not going to vaporize varmint weight bullets.. so the twist of 1 in 8 or faster, takes in consideration for 85 to 160 grain bullets... the 264 Mag's velocity potential with these lighter bullets, was not its original focus, and is definitely overkill, pushing the lighter bullets two hard.

3. yeah it might be cheaper just to use one twist rate, but I think that decision kind of cost them business the first time they tried it, with consumers tried to use mega fast velocities with those lighter bullets... if they didn't vaporize out of the barrel, when they hit a deer or elk, they were like a mini grenade, making a big but shallow hole in the game... and if the game was recovered, I am sure it blood shot a lot of meat. I shot a deer at 300 yds with the 260 Rem, with a one in 8 twist ( Ruger 77 Mk 2), with a 100 grain ballistic tip, leaving the muzzle at 3350 fps.... it hit right behind the shoulder and dropped the deer. The opposite side of the deer, had nothing but blood shot meat, which had to be scrapped, wasting half the meat. I could have imagined what a 264 Win mag, would have done with that bullet and another 300 or 400 fps M.V. the whole deer would probably have been wasted....

4. Winchester evidently learned the first time around.. what a concept in the gun industry....

Did Winchester ever put 8 twist or faster in the 264?

Even saying that, the 6.5 PRC isn't very far behind the 264 in speeds and no one is worried about that one tearing up lighter bullets. I guess it doesn't matter though, cause as you said the 1-9 isn't horrid with the 264.

Historical info notwithstanding, seems the "Swede" label has stuck.

When someone is talking about rifles and mentions "the Swede", people know what round you're talking about.

Thanks for that historical profile, JB. Helpful and informative as always.

DF

Well ph ucking excuse us! Did you type that in your Hugh Hefner robe with your monocle?

This is from nosler load data
6.5 X 55 SWEDISH MAUSER LOAD DATA
Western powder
6.5 X 55MM SWEDISH MAUSER
Hornady
6.5 X 55MM SWEDISH

So with all that what are we supposed to call mr smarty pants? With the 270 for those us not living a mile high 170 will not stabilize in a 1-10 twist..

Don’t evah question the muledeer! He said the 170’s will work and by golly they will work lol..

No they didn’t and why use a 100gr ballistic tip when their are way better bullets to use. I also doubt anyone is really using the 264 as a dedicated coyote gun this isn’t 1960-1970 times have changed slot better options out their.

The heavier high-BC .270 bullets have done fine from 1-10 twists at longer range at our local elevations.

One of the most common misconceptions about downrange ballistics is that bullets start to "destabilize" as range increases. Instead the opposite is true--at least until the bullet's velocity drops to around the speed of sound, when strange stuff starts to happen. But that's at around 1200 fps, and doesn't occur until far beyond most hunters shoot. This because there are two contrary forces involved in bullet stability--air pressure on the front end, due to velocity, and the rate of spin. The pressure on the front end drops relatively quickly, due to the velocity drop, while the rate of spin decreases far slower. Thus the destabilizing effect of front-end pressure drops far quicker than the rate of spin, the reason bullets become more stable as range increases.

The reason many shooters (especially hunters) think bullets start to destabilize at longer ranges is relatively larger groups when they "test" their loads at, say, 300-400 yards. But this is due to wind-drift, which increases twice as fast as range. For instance, if wind-drift for a certain bullet is 2" at 200 yards, it will be about 8" at 400 yards. And even 3 mph breeze (which many would call "calm") works this way.

From what I recall, Remington increased the twist rate in their .243 barrels when they introduced the "6mm Remington." I suspect the reason for the 1-9-1/4 listed twist is due to a slight variation in the button-rifling equipment, probably related to the "button." Rifling twist used to vary considerably more when all factory barrels were cut-rifles, due to the adjustable sine-bar machinery used back then. The supposed standard rifling twist for the .250 Savage was originally 1-14, but have owned an old Savage 99 .250 that had a 1-15 twist.

Don't really care what various companies call the 6.5x55; if they want to that's fine with me.

But "common use" does not make terminology correct. A good example is using "caliber" instead of cartridge. Caliber means bore/groove diameter, not cartridge. Yet several dozen rifle and ammo manufacturers use "caliber" on their websites, when they actually mean chambering, or cartridge. Here's my most recent list:

Barrett Firearms
Federal Ammunition
Fierce Arms
Franchi
GA Precision
Heym
Hill Country Rifles
Holland and Holland (calibre)
Hornady
Howa
H-S Precision
Kimber
Lapua
Lyman
Mauser
New Ultra Light Arms
Norma
Rigby (calibre)
Ruger
Sako
Sauer
Shaw Barrels
Smith & Wesson
Speer
Tikka
Weatherby Rifles
Winchester Rifles

This doesn't bother me as much as it does some people, but there it is. But as somebody or Norwegian descent I do get a little weary of hearing of reading "Swedish Mauser," when the cartridge was neither until Norway and Sweden started making or ordering rifles. And even then it wasn't solely the cartridge (not caliber) of either Norway or Sweden.

MD "Thus the destabilizing effect of front-end pressure drops far quicker than the rate of spin, the reason bullets become more stable as range increases." From above. Is this what we use to call a bullet going to sleep at a longer distance. I seem to remember that and a lot of people more than snickered at it but it was a long time ago.

BTW . I do have an original Swede Mauser I bought back when they were $69 I think and the carbine version was $39.It was shipped to my front door. without any checks .I think I order it from an ad in the"Shotgun News" maybe in the 80's.

You paint the picture very well. Its been called the swedish mauser for fu cking ever and will continue to be called that. Let the Norwegians cry.

I have a five digit Win Classic in .270 Win with a 24" original barrel. I loaded 170 grain Bergers with RL 26 powder and sighted it in at my local range at 1300' elevation. Very accurate under .75" three shot groups. I also shot it at a friends range at 2500' elevation on my way to an elk hunt this fall. I had no problem repeatedly hitting 6" gongs at 300 and 400 yards using a Leupold 3.5-10x scope with B&C reticle. On paper at 200 yards it shot consistent with my 100 yard zero at 1300' elevation. I think my mv was about 2800 fps. In that rifle with that load, it clearly stabilized those bullets at those elevations.

Reckon the Norwegians have been relegated to 6.5x55 stepchildren?

Maybe even red headed step children….

You’d think with their contribution to the project, they’d
get at least some token recognition.

DF

History is rife with inaccuracies, but Swedish Mauser is fine. These rifles were made in Sweden and Germany. The English language is always evolving.

In the US, the term "Indian" is an inaccurate description of indigenous people. India Ink was actually invented in China. The list is endless.

This is my Swede. His name is Lars.

Maybe we just call it the 6.5 SKAN for Scandinavian.. Giving everyone some kudos....

There ya go...

The 6.5 SKAN.... Inclusive...

No redheaded step children...



DF

Everyone gets a trophy these days I guess.. Might as well give the Swede one 100+ years later..

C'mon MD... Really???
Gonna insist next that the Swedish Bikini Team isn't Swedish?

Now, now....

Beretzs, in a masterful stoke of international diplomacy, has just solved this thorny issue.

The previously mislabeled "Swede" in now to be called the 6.5 SCAN....

He could well get the Nobel Peace Prize for this stroke of diplomatic genius....



DF

I love my 6.5x55 in Husqvarna action with an unknown 1:9 twist barrel. Worked very well with 129 Hornady. Was someone's else's "project" that I gladly resurrected.





I think after having married in to a Norwegian family with some Swedish mixed in, It should be called the 6.5x55 Scandihoovian,

BTW, I am of German, French and English descent but am 100% American.

I too have not had problems stabilizing 170gr out of my 270's at 3500 feet elevation.

Wow! Now that’s a buck! Awesome CRS

Last year's buck. The right buck never showed when I was carrying the 6.5 this year.

Too late, it’s already been done. That’s the label Hornady has been using on their 6.5x55 die boxes for quite a while now. 6.5x55 SCAN.

Hey Mule Deer, should the 6.5x55 bear any geographic qualifier at all? Seems the bullet, brass and die makers have chosen their individual favorite nomenclature based on propaganda.

I don't have access to the ammo or my manuals at present, but I seem to remember that the 6.5 Swede case head was a different diameter than most brass based on a -30-06 case.. I think it was smaller as I could not make 6.5 brass from a 30-06 case. It has been a long time ago so it might have been the opposite.

However, my question is: are new rifles chambered for the 6.5 x 57 the same case head as the 30-06 head diameter or are they the same as the original 6.5 Swede ? I can check both diameters tomorrow. I have some Norma 6.5 brass that I bought back in the 80's when I first got the rifle. I will also check the nomenclature on the Norma box and the case head.

The 6.5X57 is the same .473 as the 30-06. The 6.5X55 as originally setup is .480. European brass will be the .480 rim, American and some others will be .473 rim diameter.

Thanks

I wanna see some flick knives and more attitude!

Lars, my rifle, does not like to be called a 6.5x55mm. He abhors the other names - 6.5x55mm SE or SKAN. He prefers to be known as 6.5 Lars, the Impaler.

His cousin in Germany likes to be called a 6.5x55 UNIMOG. I got a red deer with one. This one was built in 1948 and is now surplus. Despite its age, the Unimog is very potent 6.5.

Oh wait. I was wrong. It is a 7.7 (303).
.

Mr Smith Beat me to it... I shot both rounds... I neck down and trim 06 Nickle cases to make 6.5 x 57 brass....

I have a 6.5 x 55 on a Win 70 Featherweight, with a Pac Nor barrel.... the action is a Win push feed...

Winchester brass in the 6.5 x 55 is the European specs, and case head.

Remington 6.5 x 55 brass has a .473 case head.. so in that rifle, I always use Remington Brass....

Winchester brass doesn't always eject correctly.

Aww….

And I was about to nominate him for the Nobel.

DF

A fun article by Philip Massaro about what your favorite rifle cartridge says about you.

Be forewarned - he may have inadvertently mentioned "Swede" in there so have your blood pressure medicine nearby ....

What Your Favorite Rifle Cartridge Says About You

Holy crap. Those were pretty damned funny!

Fun article,

But, what if you have them all, your fav being the one you're holding at the moment....?

DF

Here are some photos of ammo boxes of Norma commercial ammo and unprimed brass, etc., purchased in the mid 80's. Notice it is marked 6.5 Norma







The commercial ammo head stamp is Norma Re and the unprimed brass has only Norma, both 6.5x55. The rim diameter is .477 measured on a 4 place micrometer



This is some of the original military ammo which I assume is a 175 gr bullet. Rim diameter on these are .477



Here is my $69, 6.5 Swede. Original barrel, cut and recrowned at the 1st step. Richards stock. Turned down and reshaped bolt, Buheler Safety, Timmney trigger, and cocking conversion, 6X fixed Leupold scope.It shoots the Sierra GK 140 gr with 46 gr of H4831 very well, but does even better with the Nosler 129 gr AB and 47gr of H4831

Cool pictures Saddlesore.

And what would the author have to say about the 6.5 CM? I guess the article implies that in 2015 there weren't the numbers of 6.5 CM as there are now.

May not be too bad.

After all, he didn't mention "gay" when describing the typical .270 owner or the round.

I guess he isn't a Fire contributor, or he'd have known better.....

DF

Not military, just older cupro-nickel (or even possibly mild steel- check with a magnet) jacketed soft point hunting ammo. Undoubtedly 156 or 160 grain bullets. The original military load was invariably a long 156 grain RN FMJ bullet shaped such as these. Sweden downsized their FMJ military bullet to a 139 grain spitzer sometime soon before WWII, dunno what Norway did in that regard.

Figured it was military as there is no cartridge designation like 6.5 x 55.I have 6-8 of these.Not magnetic ( checked) None have Mfgr stamped, just some numbers and letters Too tarnished to get a good photo

Figured it was military as there is no cartridge designation like 6.5 x 55.I have 6-8 of these.Not magnetic ( checked) None have Mfgr stamped, just some numbers and letters Too tarnished to get a good photo

Thanks Puddle. A good link and a fair assessment of the cartridges.

saddlesore, I had forgotten about the 6.5 Norma. We had a lot of it here, but most people passed on them because of the price.

Don't forget, "the Sweed". It's a campfire thing.

Or "swedes'. It's what the Brits call rutabagas. They also call it a Swedish turnip.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

Humorous, I have 3 on the list at present, but my favorite isn't on it. Wonder what that says about me?

I liked the "you never go anywhere without a belt"

It's only later that I realized he was referring to the brass, and not the booze...

Steve. I have to confess .The box of 6.5 Norma was a given to me.I only bought the unprimed brass.Not a lot of choices back then

That's true. In Canada, I recall having a lot more European product on the shelves. We also had Cdn made Imperial ammunition and other stuff. Different times for sure.

Per the Nosler Manual. the 6.5x55 rim size is .480 and the 30-06 is .473 if that helps. U.S. 6.5x55 brass has measured .474 for me.

A sampling of my Lapua brass yields .478".

Ahhh, go ahead. Formalities are pretty loose around here.

That's about what my Lapua brass is too. I have mentioned this before, the Lapua brass will not fit in my Barrett. Several brands of American brass will.

I guess American manufacturers decided to economize in scale by switching 6.5x55 head diameters to the standard ".30-06" head diameter. But really, would it have been so difficult to keep things standardized with the Scandanavians?

Back 40 years ago when I first started playing with the cartridge, brass was hard for me to find so I resorted to making it out of '06 brass. Upon firing in the chamber of my M94 Swedish carbine it bulged quite noticeably at the web, so I bit the bullet and started sniffing out Norma brass and life was good.

I just stay with Lapua brass with mine, have enough to go the distance.

DF

[quote=gnoahhh

Back 40 years ago when I first started playing with the cartridge, brass was hard for me to find so I resorted to making it out of '06 brass. Upon firing in the chamber of my M94 Swedish carbine it bulged quite noticeably at the web, so I bit the bullet and started sniffing out Norma brass and life was good.[/quote]

All I ever used is Norma after I tried the same thing

My Ruger carbine likes both the 139 gr Scenar and the 160 gr RN Hornady IL with a dose of RL22 or IMR 4320 in Lapua cases . I bought 500 Lapua cases and 5000 of the Scenar's when Osama 57 states got in office the first time . I have a hand full of 96's and a CG-63 also , they seem to all prefer the 139 gr Scenar with the exception of one rifle made in 1899 . It does it's best with the 160 so far but I have not tried anything heavier than that in it .

I too laid in a prodigious supply of Lapua brass and 139 Scenars. Luckily, cost-wise, my Ruger 1A likes 129 Hornadys too. I guess I could say I'm pretty well set for the long haul also. IMR 4831 is my poison of choice.

Same here with 139 Scenars and Lapua brass.

Have you tried MRP? It grouped the Scenars tighter than 4831. It’s pretty close to RL-22 burn rate.

DF

The real penny pinchers shoot wc872 under a 140.

My jug of 872 is about a clone of my 869. Those both work great in the 26 Nosler, identical loads perform identically. Those, especially the 872, reportedly can vary from lot to lot. So, your 872 may or not be a clone of 869.

That one may be a tad slow in the Swede (er SCAN....). You'd think it would be at its best with the heavies.

I would guess you'd be leaving some performance on the table with that one. But, I haven't tried it. Did you clock that load?

DF

Well, for the life of me I can't figure out how to post images directly from IMGUR, but here's a link to the album of my Swede.

https://imgur.com/gallery/LrNFN1l

I had a cheap Axis I rebarreled to the cartridge, just to be different a few years ago & feel in love with it as a deer & antelope killer. Last year, I decided I needed another project & not having owned a really classy looking gun I figured I really ought to rectify the situation.

It started out life as a horrifically neglected & Bubba'd Sears model 52 that I picked up for literally nothing. I had ER Shaw profile & chamber me a 20" tube, to match the original profile. I picked up a nice lump of walnut on ebay & shoehorned the action into it while Shaw's were doing their thing. I had to scour the intrawebs to pick up all the missing parts (single piece bottom metal, ejector & extractor & a few bolts & screws) the hardest part to source was the flush mount sling mounts & matching swivels from an M70 Supergrade. Good lord but those things are expensive! I sent all the metalwork away to Gareth West at GT Customizing in Casper WY to be mirror polished, blued & certain parts color case hardened. The stock took a trip to Minnesota and had the checkering hand cut (Ahlman's, if I recollect)
Once it all came home, I bolted it all back together & mounted a Leupold Fx3 fixed 6 power scope & hit the range.

My 2 pet loads involve Prvi & Lapua brass, 129gn Hornady & 140gn Berger bullets, both over healthy doses of 7828ssc

The rifle ended up quite a bit heavier that I would've liked, but it's an absolute pussy cat to shoot & I finally own a gun that I'm just as happy looking at as I am shooting.

Once you have your photo downloaded to Imgur and saved, go to that image and click on it.To the right you will see a series of boxes. Select the one that says BBC code ( for forums) and click on the"blue "COPY" box to the right .

Go back to the 24hour forum that you want to post in and put your cursor where you want the image and click on " Ctrl and X " at the same time.

I have a couple of 6.5x55s . One is a project rifle, A Swedish Mauser, M96/38 , made Husqvarna in 1944. It even has a Weaver 4x , a 60B,which worked well.. I had it rebuilt years ago and never mounted. A gunsmith friend of mine had a comment, "How come the guys in El Paso could make a scope that tracked, whereas those in Beaverton Oregon couldn't ?" Mind you, with 4x, I needed fat lines. I make up my own targets from dollar store poster paper and a Sharpie , this time it was the 1" Sharpie.

I was very pleased. The rifle is a true project. It started out as imported from Sweden sporter . It had a side trigger block safety installed. There must have been a kit available in Sweden. I was unsuccessful at converting it to cock-on-open. I followed the instructions too closely., they were more of a general idea ,so I ended up messing up the bolt. I found a turned down bolt on the web, and then checked the headspace.The gauge was a month clearing custom , held up on both sides. I then fitted and bedded it to a gunshow find , Husqvarna 1600 stock. That original stock proved that not all Swedes had good taste. The shimming the scope bases took some trips to the range. I don't think I will make a hinged floor plate, but I will make release button. They are easy, just a piece of longer 1/4" round stock with an offset oval at the end .

The project rifle rewarded me with an good group, on target no less. . As it was raining, I didn't chrony it. I had a heel of left over RL-19 and a few Sierra 140 BTSP . I still have some RL-19 so next load will be Core-Locs 140s. I'm using up a mixed batch of bullets bought at a gunshow. I used 44grs of RL-19

I shoot this in my 1920 Mauser 96 6.5 Swede for fun at the range.
50 grains WC872 under a Nosler custom comp 140 gives 2350fps. Definitely not a top performer, but 8 pounders of wc872 were what, $39? Tough to be more economical than that!