Have a couple rifles that could go this route. Too much fuss for little gain? I know it could slow down case trimming. 80-100 fps increase?

IMO, not worth the gain.

Have used the.243 A.I. a bunch, they work great but I wouldn't do it over again, I would fast twist a standard .243, to shoot the longer heavier bullets and forget the A.I. the twist takes the .243 in to another world. not the A.I. or get a 6 CM problem solved. Rio7

I like the 243 AI a lot. But I don't think you're going to notice much difference over the parent, except in the lack of trimming. I certainly saw velocity gains with top loads and slowest powders. Impressive gains. I'm probably loading pretty warm, though.

I like to try novel things. If you're the same, go for it.

Should add that I got a 1:8 25" barrel to shoot the longest bullets. That makes more difference in my mind than just hogging out a slower twist.

What are the EXACT particulars,of said platforms? Make/Model,stock,feed style/base/rings/glass and finally the application(s) for same. Hint.

I of course,shoot both. Hint...............

I just built a 7-08 this year. Considered the AI, but decided against it. If you’re hand loading, and want the slight improvement, you could do the 7 SAW. It is pretty much the same as 7-08AI, but WTO has brass in stock for it typically. The brass is made by Alpha so it is as good as you will find.

In the 243, I’d do exactly as RIO7 said…..6 Creed makes that easy and minimizes mag box constraints.

Montana 7mm08, 22" barrel Tract Toric 2-10X42. Deer hunting, big cutovers, steep mtn areas, power lines, long open mtn ridges

In a Montucky,you are hamstrung goodly,by COAL and RPM. Rather than push schitty projectiles faster,I'd be inclined to up BC instead,because it will connect far more dots and by default. Plus you'll lose(1) round of mag capacity,within said transformation,in that platform. Hint.

GOOD brass and bushing dies(expanderless,wearing .003" constriction),will capably nip trimming. While far from ideal,the Hornie 162's('Max,BTHP,EDL-X and M) leap nicely and I'd be in ELD-M Mode,at 2700fps ala '17. Hint................

Why the M over the X?

The biggest reason I AI’d a 243 was bbl life—something 243’s fall a bit short of. I used a new T/O Rem bbl on a M700 receiver which has a 9.125 twist, good enough to stabilize 103g Hornadys at the 6k altitude of my shooting range.

According to a good friend who is a 6mm loony a 243AI has a significantly longer bbl life. He borescoped my bbl at the beginning with his Hawkeye, I now a have Teslong, and compared to another new 243 M700 I have there is definitely less throat erosion/surface cracking with a comparable number of rounds.

I’m about to do this with another 243.

As far as velocity goes I wasn’t really looking for any big gain in velocity so my loads are running 50-75 fps faster with RL26.

In like diameter/mass,the ELD-M BC's are better than ELD-X's. As a 7-08 goes,it's exceptionally projectile friendly,due the launch speed of same and the increased BC,simply retains more of the initial,in exchange for higher impact velocity(less drop/drift too). Hint.

To be "nicer" to barrels,one can't increase case size/capacity at like pressure and have them "wear better". Hint.

In a 700's confines,I'd rather be squirting .620 BC 112's via Seex Kreed,than anything in 243 or 243AI. So I'd happily rebarrel in kind,rather than punch out an OEM,mainly because I've done it both ways and more than a few times. Borescopes likely hurt more than they "help",because visual seeds ain't mechanical connections. "Accuracy" and "life" can't be "seen". Yesssssss...I have a fhuqking borescope. Hint..................(grin)

I built a .243 Ackley to chase speedgoats and it works well for that. I also made it something of a monster to haul in the field, with a McM A5 stock and a heavy contour barrel.

I can't remember why I went this way but I can't really recommend it to anyone else. For me, it was just scratching an itch.

I have two, the 280 AI and 338-06AI. I like the fact that the 280 AI is a recognized cartridge and it doesn’t need fire forming when you reload and buy the brass. The 338-06 AI is noticeably better than a standard 338-06. At least I noticed an advantage. The cool thing about the 338 is that it’s a nice alternative to a magnum and you only charge 58-60 grains of powder instead of 90+ in the magnums. You don’t feel as guilty shooting it a little more since you get more per pound than a magnum. I am considering getting a 22-250 AI built because the new heavy, 80+ grain bullets look very attractive in that package especially since it’s 100+ fps faster than the un-improved. It looks dang sexy too, maybe the cutest cartridge I’ve seen. I considered a 223 AI but decided against it since I have the 223 in a bolt and a few AR Varminters and it would be so close to the performance I’m used to that it’s not worth it for me. The 22-250 AI will meet the goals I have in a 224 caliber and save me frustration and clutter when loading. Fire forming does suck sometimes though. I have a 22 K Hornet and I think I would have been better off with a standard 221 fireball. I fire-formed about 600 pieces since I’ve had it and those are shots I can’t get back and could be called unnecessary wear and tear on the barrel.

I've had 'em(243AI's) in all shapes/sizes through the years. Original impetus,was to add some velocity and not exceed OEM confines,if only because there was no real good way to do so. Hint.

These really are THE Good Old Days,due the advancements in range determination,projectiles,barrels and scopes to guide same. Back when everything was a series of guesses,business was conducted differently,because there was no "options". I can now shoot far lesser powder charges,with better ES/SD's and vastly improved BC's,while basking in the sanctity of far greater effective range and much improved terminal effects. Win/win/win. Hint.

I've got quite a few Seek Kreeds,none slower than 8" RPM or faster than 7". No thang to squirt .620 BC's at 3050FPS from a 21-incher and that is Big Medicine,with a pile driving ass. Hint.

I of course have a pile of 22-250AI's and I think (5) 224 Speedmires,none slower than 8",nor faster than 7". Last I counted,I had (13) 223AI's and prefer it for Utility. None of them shoot anything less than a 75 ELD,with many aligned for 88's and 90gr Beer Cans(.585 BC). Have a "few" 22 KHorn's too. Hint.

RPM/COAL/Throat Geometry,are what connect dots,if only because like always...bullets matter more than anything else. Hint................

Nice post, Larry

Stick, as I mentioned my main objective was bbl life. It seems shoulder angle is also a factor in throat erosion and the 243 has the shoulder and short neck to promote that erosion.

I also have less than $200 into two new Rem SS T/O bbls, and SS lasts longer than cm bbls. The Rem twist limits me to lower BC bullets, but is still better than (most) factory twists.

Someday I’ll probably go the route of a custom bbl, a 8 twist 6 CM, will probably be my choice.

For now the 243 AI is plenty fun and goes where I want to go.

mouthtexas,

You are sucking the wrong ass. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............





'pine,

Oh believe me,I get to HEAR it all and them some. My "trouble" is,I shoot it all. Hint.(grin)

I live in THE World's highest density per capita,of 243AI's,whether punched OEM spouts or Custom. Can't cuss it,but having BT/DT and with ALL the T-shirts,less IS more. Big Green has long done the 243 Win righter than most and lots of us here,punched 'em out. BC will simply RELIABLY outpace case capacity and a Skookum 6BR will reliably blow fhuqking minds(I've a few). Hint.

The Hornie 103 has a .512 BC. The Hornie .224" ELD-M has a .545 BC and same in a Vanilla 22-250,will outpace a 243AI/103. "Probably" easier on barrels too. I shoot it all and often side by each,which do tend to reveal muchly. Hint.

Less is soooooooo very often more..........

Lets all do more with less... Stumpy puts on a suit and tie and joins corporate America?

That saying went out the window 22 years ago Stumpy....even when you make sense.... you still make NO SENSE...

Only you can put that off.... It ain't easy being Schtick, but we gotta give you This... you're always out there battin' even if you only strike out...
once in a blue moon, you actually get a piece of one tho...

how long did it take you to figure out BC, matters more than powder capacity? that's so simple, even Hutch can tell ya that...

Oh, wait a minute.. now I get it... you tout that because you learned the obvious from your Dog.. the image get clearer....

Get Hutch a bone for us, for helping you out once again... you're sure lucky to have such a smart dog.. now if you'll just stop drinking and get around to taking a bath once a month, but ol Hutch would be a lot more happier dog...but we won't hold our breathe on that one....

Pleasant dreams Stumpy.. hope ya don't wake up on the concrete face down in front of the fireplace again in the morning, with mayonnaise all over your ass, and a pair of quarters in your hand...

Shefire,

Pardon wares that exist,while you wax eloquent on your Manic Delusional Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?



Typical .243" bore size outing. Hint.




Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

I’ve been messing around with then Montana 7-08, first one, but it’s a blast so far. I was also wondering how it’d handle 162’s in the little mag box. Seems like it’ll be fine. If 2700 is possible that should work excellent since it’ll get used for bucks and I’d prefer they open quicker rather than later. Thanks

With an improved case, yes trimming will be reduced, however the brass will flow to the shoulder neck area thus thickening the brass at this juncture. Two things happen, you will produce a 'donut' inside base of neck thus requiring reaming, especially when using a bushing set up to size, or if using a Collet die the 'donut' will be on the outside requiring the neck be turned occasionally to preclude difficult chambering.

If you want a bit more velocity at the same pressure, and the two mentioned are short action, (this for Tikka T3 owners) you can change the bolt stop and magazine to one that accommodates a 3.34" oal , depending on the throat dimensions the loaded round can be up to 0.540" longer, if length of bullet allows this.

A 7.7 twist 243 Win is a very nice set up with bullets in the 105 to 115gn range.

AI is to much hassle for the gains that are realized in the 243 and 7mm08.

'retzs,

They are never not worth the first pitch. Hint.



Assmell,

How do you Crossed-eye Drooling CLUELESS Fhuqks,DREAM this schit up? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I have had several A.I.'s including a 243 AI. I would not do them again myself.

I’ll give them a shake out. Should be a wicked combo if they will perk.

I think this little Kimber will get an 2-12 Athlon before too long.

Experience, you are not the only one with that, lol

'lit,

The beauty of The Kreedmire,is that it is essentially a 22/24/264-250AI and excellent brass abounds,ready to roll. So reap 308 case capacity,but in a mechanically superior wrapper and get to bank a fair amount of COAL for better bullets. Win/win/win. Hint...........



'retzs,

Funny you mention that,as I'm gonna yard a SWFA 3-9x off a Kimber Limited Edition Kreedmire today and scope it same. Hint..............




Assmell,

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Please continue doing so aloud,as nothing is fhuqking funnier,than oblivious humor. Feel free to add pics,to quantify same. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

The .243 is a Sako Finnlight 20" barrel.

The Sako is 10" RPM and a bust. Hint..............

Beretzs, I have a Tikka 708AI that has a 20" Bartlein barrel on it. I am using the M+ mags to get a little bit more room. I know I could get even more room if I wanted, but I am not one to chase speed as I am perfectly capable of using my dope chart and dialing, or even using my reticle in a pinch to make longer shots.

I am able to get 2750 with a 162 and Varget and 2740 with the same bullet and H4350. I can get a touch over 2800 with a 150 grain bullet, which is bad medicine for deer.

In regards to the people who continue to say "the AI isn't worth the effort", please explain to me exactly what effort is required? Simply load a standard round, fire it in your gun and then continue to load that fireformed brass until the primer pocket loosens up. Anneal after 5 firings, which is exactly what I do for my standard cartridges. The only thing I don't have to do with my AIs (or TCUs) is trim the brass. As for a ring forming in the neck, I have never experienced that and I have been shooting these types of cartridges for over 20 years now.

It takes many cycles to to realize this, Dasher cases require at least 2 neck turns ( not a full neck turn , but just the thickened portion at the juncture of shoulder/neck, before pockets loosen.

Also create a false shoulder for the initial firing to increase case longevity.

Teekers are HILARIOUSLY Long Actions,whether 223 or 300 Winny,they are the same fhuqking receiver. Hint.

That being said and because bullets matter wayyyyyyy more than headstamps,a Skookum 7-08 SALAMI is easily realized on a Long Action,if only fhuqking obviously. The increase in COAL isn't a "Speed Adder",as much as it is a "Land Jump Reducer". Twist it 8" RPM and throated for 180 ELD's and 2600fps is a breeze,with much Precision and Accuracy. The .796 BC greedily clings to Launch Velocity and slips atmospherics amazingly,while bringing it's pile driving ass along for the ride. Hint.

On a Teeker,I'd go 284Win,long before 7-08AI. Hint.

Any/all Virgin Cases get "formed" on the first trigger pull,though some changes are obviously more drastic than others,if only by literal design. I shoot piles and piles and piles of Improved chamberings and shooting is something I happen to enjoy. That being said,it isn't a concession to gun a chambering who's DOPE is the same from it's Virgin poke,to it's last,as life cycles of brass go. Hint.

Just sayin'..................

Assmell,

What are you HILARIOUSLY trying to "form",at sub 2300fps?!? HINT.

Fhuqking Krieger in 22BR here. Hint.




Fhuqking LAUGHING!...........

With the 2-12 Athlons I’d be hard pressed to ever get more SS 3x9’s. A few ounces more for the Athlon but the rest is a big improvement. Worth it to me.

Solid copy on the 162 loads.

The 3-9's were never my cup of tea,but I ended up with too many anyway. Hint.(grin)

USPS Tracking says I'll have (4) more 2-12's arriving Monday,but I doubt the weather allows same..................

I’ve currently got over 20 firings on some lots of .243AI brass and nearly that on a couple lots of .223AI brass, and have not had any donut issues.

Scott,

Fortunately, the 162 jumps nicely in my Montana 7-08, though I had the mag box and receiver opened up to 2.920” to allow a bit more latitude to play with.

A bit of data regarding drops and hard use. No SWFA 3-9x test yet, but the other SWFAs are a good indicator:
BTR 2-12x
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thr...42-ahmr2-ffp-ir-moa.286981/#post-2830958

SWFA 3-15X
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/amateur-mini-swfa-3-15-evaluation.265643/

SWFA 6x
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/swfa-ss-6x42mm-mq-field-evaluation.278498/

Stick,

I’m curious if you’ve done any rifle-hurl tests with a 2-12x yet? Seems the SWFAs might be more tenacious in holding zero, but I’m curious what you’ve seen.

Some cases would show little improvement. Some will show up much better.
I have the following “improved” chambers:

22-250AI
280AI
375 Whelen AI
375 H&H AI

I like the 375 Whelen AI mainly for the shoulder.

The 22-250AI is one of my most accurate rifles and is a virtual twin to the 220 Swift for case capacity.

The 375 H&H AI has slightly more capacity than the 375 Weatherby. Some say the extra power isn’t needed. But they probably don’t see a reason for the 378 or the 460 Weatherby’s either.

My 280AI in my opinion has the least advantage over the factory chambering.

The two I’d go “improved” in this bunch again is the 22-250 and the 375 Whelen.

I would not improve the 280 again!

If I were going to Africa to shoot Cape or elephant I’d consider the improved 375 H&H. I like this cartridge and I sold my other 375 H&H. Now I’m getting long in the tooth and really have no need for this much power. My 416 Rigby went down the road too.

Regarding the 243, I think improvement would be worthwhile. Partly because I dislike the long sloping shoulder.

Actually,I have not,but probably should. Hint.

Fixed Fhuqkers set THE bar,there is no doubt. Though in fairness,I've never used one in conjunction with a padded mattress,nor with any other Bullet Steering Device. Hint.(grin)

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

Always find some to turn off near the shoulder/ neck junction as the round count goes up.

22 PPC AFI(Alaskan Fhuqking Improved) here,with initial 3-9x. Hint.




Couldn't stand it and HAD to go 2-12x. Hint.(grin)



Just sayin'.................

Good intel fellas. Glad to hear it on both accounts.

The 3x9 SS is almost great. To me, the correct version of it is Trijicons 2-10x36mm. It’s just my opinion but it’s darned near perfect for my use. I’ve got a few 3x9’s and they’ve been great just never seem as great as some others. But they are still a lot of scope for 500 bucks for a 4-9 variable.

At 400 bucks the Athlon Helo’s are running in the same pack. I’ll read through those threads you sent Jordan. So far the handful I’ve had have held up well without a bobble but I’ll admit they haven’t taken any serious whoopings. But they have taken some light spills on gravel and similar and been on point.

Mechanical zero stops,locking turrets and illumination do not suck. That especially in conjunction and extrapolated,to wares that have none of it. Hint.(grin)

It's not a concession,that wares of said attributes set on shelf,ready to ship either. Hint..............

Yup, that’s a great point as well.

I won’t toss my 3x9’s in the dumpster but there’s better now for about the same money.

10yd parallax can be nice too. Hint..............(grin)

I'd just do a faster twist, especially if you have a long action...

or just chamber either one in a NEEDMoor case with a faster twist...