All 35 Whelen 225 TSX, 55 gr Varget, CCI 200.
Left to right:
Moose 225 yards. Shot below tail going away found in neck. Fell dead in 10 yards
Elk 260 yards. Shot behind last rib, found under skin in neck. Went 30 yards
Mule Deer 285 yards. Shot just to left of anus, found behind breastbone. Went 40 yards.

Three one shot kills that were not the storybook broadside shots illustrated in some bullet ads. Those razor sharp petals sure mess things up.

You're big on the THS huh?

They sure didn't expand much, but obviously they worked well.

Obviously photo shopped. I keep reading that TSX's are too tough and don't kill well. Plus they're terribly expensive-didn't you waste about $3.00 there? Truly, great pictures. Thanks for posting them (but my Whelen likes the 200gr TSX's and I haven't recovered one yet) Congrats on the critters.

Ok I have to ask, whats up with the color? I've never been able to recover a TSX/TTSX/MZ from a animal.

Yeah, expansion isn't much to get worked up over for sure.

All recovered from dead animals

I've recovered $0.10 Corelockts from dead animals that looked better...

They expand much more if driven at higher velocities.Is the one below more to your liking?

Two of three shot up the azz? Congrats... I can wait for a better shot.

Here's one I recovered expanded on the right (elk)... and one on the left that didn't open (antelope). That's a problem.

And of course, the one on the right was at close range/high velocity.

When things get far they start looking pretty much like expensive pencils... sort of like the 35 Whelen projectiles in this thread being bragged about.

Ah, here's a recovered Corelock

Another expensive pencil (elk):

Was the one on the left recovered from a live Antelope?

Also recovered from a live animal?

The TSX's shown here that didn't open are all bananas. Noses are bent over like they were beginning to keyhole at impact. I will bet they were recovered because they tumbled inside the animals, didn't break up and created quite a bit of damage. My question is why did they tumble? Too long for the twist rate, too low of a velocity or other factors?

You left out one possibility... shot into a dirt mound behind a target. Funky colored bullets.

Minimaly stabile at impact is my bet

That is some crappy expansion or lack there of!
Live animal or dead still crappy.
Point is they would not instill any confidence.... for me anyway.


And what is up with the brick colors?

The pink bullets look like they were soaked in something during cleaning that leached the zinc out of them. IIRC loss of zinc turns brass pink.

Just did a quick guesstimate on impact velocity of the pink bullets, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1900 fps. That may be near the bottom of their operating range explaining limited expansion.

Modern bullets are all junk! Even the original X!!!




All pulled from moose, only one of which moved from the tracks he was in when struck.

Guess which one of these accomplished the least? (Hint: it wasn't the Core-Lokt. )

Most of the X bullet failures were with the original X bullets, the TSX's seem to perform a bit better. Looking at Brad's photo it seems that they're still not completely reliable. I know a guy with a .375 original X bullet that looks like the one on the left from Brad's photo, he recovered it from an elephant and has it sitting on his mantle. Two guys I hunt with lost good bucks that they shot with the original X's, both no longer use them. Since neither deer was recovered it's obviously impossible to say for certain what happened, but both are very experienced hunters/riflemen with multiple good bucks to their credit, so when they say they made a good shot I believe them.

For what it's worth, I believe the major problem with the X/TSX design is the hollow point. It relies upon hydraulics to initiate expansion where a solid material like lead or plastic in the tip would likely initate the expansion better. My gut feeling is that you probably don't see the expansion problems out of the TSX with the plastic tip since there's something there to be driven back into the cavity to start the expansion. I think the hollow point design is the main problem with these bullets. I would consider using the tipped TSX, but I'm not touching the hollow point ones. There's too many good bullets out there today to rely upon a bullet with a questionable history like the X/TSX.

I always get a kick out of these threads that start with a picture of an expanded X bullet offered as some kind of proof that they will always do that. It ain't the 98 out of 100 that expand that are the problem, it's the other 2 that screw you.

I agree.
Good post Crow! Hopefully the TTSX will eliminate the expansion issues.

I'll add my modest X collection as well. I also agree with the hydraulics of the hollow point. The bullets from my backstop demonstrate the concept.

Recovered from my clay pit backstop.




Shoulder blade "damage" from a 25 cal 100 gr TSX driven to 3300, shot at ~ 100 yards. You can't get your pinky into the hole.............

62gr TSX, I can't get my junk through the hole...

You can be sure they ain't discolored from blood.

Actually, dickbrain, they were run thru a washing machine tied in a sock and then soaked overnight in CR 10 to make for a pretty picture.

You keep shooting that cup and core crap... it will soon be banned and then what will you do?

As for blood stains, do you soak your bullets in Tampex to make them look "cool"?

We have three dead animals in the freezer, you have
BS, somethings just never change. MO called yet?

Still hyping that slant eyed crap in Texas?

Here's the message: If you have no facts or nothing to contribute why don't you just STFU and stick to being a campfire guide as nothing is every killed there but a cheap 5th of Texas rotgut.

Whom was your post directed toward?

Lots and lots of different voices going round in that head of his. Hard to tell who he talking to.

One thing is very clear and that is how far you have digressed from a couple of years ago. I do know one thing for certain and that is you would never address me in that tone FTF.

didn't someone else post these?

???????

Had I found those bullets in one of the animals I shot, at the ranges you shot them at. It would only take one for me to figure out that that bullet is to tough for the caliber/cartride you are shooting it out of, But amazingly you have recovered 3 and still do not get it. I am sorry but that is just plain stupid.

I know you will say that it is a dead animal so the bullet performed NOT TRUE the bullet did not expand and you were shooting it at a modest range. Don't get me wrong the bullet is working just fine it is the guy putting them in the rifle that is out of his mind.

I think they would do well from a 358 RUM.

I've only used TSX bullets in Africa, shot through my .375 RUM. One trip I used 300 gr, another trip I used 270 gr bullets. Out of 18 animals, I only recovered these three TSX failures:

The one with the broken off petal went full length through a Kudu...front shoulder to opposite hip.

The results of the other 16 failures are either on mounted on my walls at home or at my taxidermist.

Barnes bullets don't always kill on the first shot.



Barnes TSX Midway Review

Your point? Assuming you have one

I'd be willing to bet that Brad hates Barnes bullets because he's never shot anything but factory stuff... Bullshitt from Bozeman...Again...

Well I've recovered a couple...this is a pick of a (early) 53 gr. .22 XFB recovered from a blacktail & I figure the velocity was somewhere around 1900-2000 fps. JJ Hack did a write up a few months back of his experiences over in africa with the TSX & they pretty much mirror mine.
Those banana bullets are funny...they HAD to be wobbleing pretty good to do that & regardless of the make or composition of the bullet, if it is wobbleing either from lack of sufficient twist or deflection due to brush, it is gonna do the same thing be-it a partition, corelokt, whatever...You guys that are posting those pics are only reinforcing my opinion that you really do not have a clue...

Perhaps Barnes and a few other bullet makers are getting the formula correct on copper bullets nowdays! However, I been a victom of the marketing readeric since 1995 and have tried several rifles in various calibers, using the BARNES X bullet, Blue XLC bullet and it is always the same old song and dance routine. Bullets do not shoot accurately in rifles, nor do they open or mushroom out as they should.

I have lost a couple of nice trophy's along the way down the yellow brick road with Barnes bullets. I myself have run them through my media tests and water tank tests. My results still proved that Barnes never got it right in comparison to what a Nosler Partiton does in dependability of being accurate and the bullet mushrooming out on big game animals.

I am still a skeptic on copper bullets! If they don't open up on your animal, chances are they will never be recovered for comparison sake. My water tank test is the best I have seen so far and I am not holding my breath on anybody's pure copper bullets outdoing a lead jacketed bullet.

However, I hope for the sake of the hunter who purchases their bullets, they can finally get things 100% correct for a change. I won't be holding my breath or discarding my TBBC, Swift A Frames, Woodleighs or Nosler Partition bullets any time soon, gentlemen of the pure copper bullet!!!

Shot placement is still more important than the type of bullet. Just ask Lawrence Root.

No need to ask anyone, I thought that was given. It is just that the better bullet always more angles inorder to place the bullet into the kill

Just wondering how you loose nice trophys and blame the bullet. There isn't one bullet out there that is impervious to failure, I shoot the TSXs and older Xs and the XLCs all with 100% confidence. If you loose a trophy you better start looking at yourself the shooter as I haven't seen anything bullet proof but I have seen people that claim to be shooters who can't hit a bull in the ass. My 10yr old daughter shoot lights out with a 22-250 and the 45gr TSXs and deer are dead, so bullets don't loose trophys HUNTERS DO!!. HAPPY HUNTING

THATS the bottom line right there.

I wouldn't bet a whole lot on that.................

Clueless in Tennessee.

Sometimes yes, but your statement is not an absolute. Bullets can lose animals. Even with perfect placed shots. I have seen it.

If the animal was lost, how did you determine the shot was placed perfectly?

Powerguy,




It's not nice to bring a logical question into an emotional argument. Logic is for reasonable people. but then, you already knew that.

I said I have seen it. Hence it is not an emotional argument sir. I saw a bull elk smacked in the shoulder with a 160 gr Sierra Gameking from a 7mm rem mag. I was the spotter, I saw it hit. Never found the elk.

Am I the only one who has seen a bullet fail? Gotta be kidding right?

Your comments really are a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
You haven't seen anything and btw your pants are on fire.


You remind me of the poster here who said he saw a mountain lion
dragging a domestic bull up into a tree. "I have seen it".
LOL!




Nothing wrong with the hp.

The real problem is the owner of Barnes Bullets who cannot buy good copper consistently for making bullets. Randy's own admission.

When they work they are great but they are obviously inconsistent.

Interesting how you know my life's experiences better than me.
How can I possibly argue with that ?

And by the way. Someone seen a bullet fail is he same as a mountain lion dragging a bull?
Is this the only way you can respond to a post? Calling people you do not know ignorant and untruthful? Why so much anger my boy? Get some pro help man. Be happy not angry.
Now turn that frown upside down and see a therapist.

I've seen a perfectly placed bullet that would have lost a critter if I didn't plant one in him.

I wonder if those pink TSX's were soaked in hydrogen peroxide?

I am with you Iraklion. I have seen it too. However I also think the shooter plays an equal part in both shooting ability and choosing a wrong bullet/round combo. I have skinned more than one bull with bullets lodged in the shoulder and scared over from seasons past. They have mostly been 24 and 25 cals (I suspect from deer hunters happening upon elk) but I have found 27 and 30 cal lead core bullets as well. Whether these "failed" bullets were fired from a 30-30 or a 30-378 is impossible to determine but regardless it lowers my confidence with cup and core bullets on elk. This is why I don't recommend shoulder shots on elk with "deer" rifles and cup and core bullets.

My experience with TSXs is limited but successful. However many people I know who've hunted the world, from Marco Polo sheep to many species of African game and the big bears ALL swear buy them. I HAVE to take their opinion seriously. Having said that, I think TSXs (and not so much TTSXs) like velocity and since I am convinced speed kills, it's a perfect recipe for me. At 3250 out ofmy 300 Weatherby or even 3000 out of my H&H, they FLATTEN game, always exit and leave nothing but jelly inside. For my 06, I'll stick with Partitions or Hornady Interlocks. jorge

They do seem to have quite a reputation. The main reason I avoid all copper is that I refuse to give in to the "save the condors and eagles" frame of mind (and thus have no experience with the TSX).

Load up a TSX and flame a condor with it....

Dog...First of all Semper Fi!

I agree also. Shot placement and bullet selection are in fact pertinent and paramount.

All I m saying is that sometimes bullets fail too.

Oldma42: Why on earth would you aim your Rifle at the "anus" of a Big Game Animal then pull the trigger?
Is it your intention to RUIN all the meat possible on said game animals with each shot you take?
Start actually HUNTING and quit "shooting" Game Animals would be my first suggestion to YOU!
Sheesh man!
HOld into the wind
VarmintGuy

These bullets at 225, 260, and 285 yards shot out of the smaller cased Whelen may explain why this:



happened at 540 yards with the larger cased 340.

I'm not convinced that a meaningful improvement has been made in the TSX in terms of terminal performance.

On needs to know how to much the right bullets to the right cartridge.

I began using the 100 grain TSX in my .257 RBTS based on recommendations here off the Campfire. My Ruger M77 MKII would not shoot any 100 grain bullet well - the recommendation here was to try a TSX and RamShot Hunter powder. Bingo - great combination in my rifle. That rifle and load combo has killed two whitetail does this season; a shoulder shot was DRT, a heart shot (heart parts all over the lane) went 30 yards. Two rounds, two deer, and accurate too - can't argue with that.

If that's not a drunken post, I don't know what is

Yeah, that's me, no handloads, factory only... too funny.

This is the same guy that comes into the LRH forum and gives guys crap for taking long shots and claims they are unethical. then posts up this crap.

What a D-Bag

Don't be too harsh, his dad may not have told him the front end was for shooting, the rear end is for eating.

same same, 257 Roberts, 100 TSX over 46 grains of H4350, light recoil, accurate, and deadly.

Nice load.
BTW, folks just as an FYI, I ignore any posts from 858 as he has followed me across every internet site trying to make trouble. Obviously a case of an unbalanced mind. Thanks.

Sometimes yes, but your statement is not an absolute. Bullets can lose animals. Even with perfect placed shots. I have seen it. [/quote]

So why is it than an arrow thru the lungs, with no expansion, and a whole lot less shock, kill animals but a bullet that doesn't open up to 1.5X bore diameter doesn't? I'm confused. If the shot was perfect, it would have pierced both lungs(fatal) the heart(fatal) the spine(fatal) or the brain(also fatal) If you don't find the animal, then apparently you didn't do your job, don't blame the tool. At least that's what I was alway's taught.

Sir:

An arrow through the lungs and a non-expanded 308 caliber bullet through the lungs are two totally different situations. The arrow will in fact make a bigger wound channel and it will cut like crazy with the razor sharp edges.
Now the bullet (theoretically non expanded) will go through with little damage. It will look like a knittting needle hole through the vitals.
The animal will give up the ghost eventually but not anytime soon.
I have witnessed wounds like that in deer.


[Specifically a doe at 200 yards with a 180 gr Scirocco from a 300 Rum (mv 3250 fps). Looked like a hole with very minute tissue damage around the hole. In this particular situation the first lung hit looked like a knife wounded it. By the time the bullet traversed to the second lung and shoulder ---all mush! Wierdest thing I ever saw.]

Anyway, if both situations were equally destructive (or lack there of) bow hunters would lose their game consistantly.

A Muzzy through both lungs is more like a 45-70 500 than a high velocity expanding bullet. Both kill by bleeding out the animal like a knife wound.

A .308 non expanding bullet through the lungs will indeed make a much larger hole than will a knitting needle. Have you ever shot an animal with a non expanding bullet in 30 cal?

Have you? If so why? I mean please explain this why would you?


Am I the only one who feels strongly about this? Why do some states outlaw this?

The most dangerous game inthe world are routinuely shot with solids. Yes I have used non expanding bullets mostly in a handgun and they are very effective

Cast or FMJ's? You know the difference right? Cast bullets for big game hunting absolutely. Very effective.
FMJ?s Heck no not for me. You can not compare both due to meplat differences.

Of course I know the difference. Belt Mountain Puch Bullets have you heard of those?

Holy Bat Shiit Batman, can't believe folks can't know/grasp what and how a BIG cast bullet works.

Still laffin over the "Cast or FMJ's? You know the difference right?"

Thinking he asked the wrong pilgrim that question. I could understand asking JO.

Steelhead.


FMJ's for deer elk and moose from a rifle man? You agree with this?

we're talking rifle here.

You said a 308 cal FMJ remember?

You compared them to a kinitting needle, remember?


In the 60's when I was young and had not heard that a FMJ would not kill and could afford what I could afford I and a feww friends killed several Deer and Hogs with Millitary surplus FMJ bullets very dead very fast. Place them in the kill zone and they are MUCH MOORE than a Knitting needle

I've killed a few critters with hard cast bullets fired from rifles, will most likely do it again.

Ain't talking about FMJ

FMJ



Not FMJ

I also don't see where JWP said FMJ.

It was here. FMJ's for big game.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3523621/3/587_Mulie

FMJ's for big game! The most absurd thing I ever heard.

Anyway JWP. I am done with this silly thing. Use what you want dude. Tracers incindiary, whatever.

Better yet re-write history. I am done with this silly thing. Your posts are indicative of your IQ.

I only responded to your analogy that a FMJ through the lungs would do no more damage than a kniting needle which is BS

Te follow quote illistrates the point





http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3523621/6

Put this stuff in front of the guys on the Long Rage [Range] Hunting forum.

They have an answer to everything, and it is always to just keep shooting [THEIR WAY]!

The LRH guys don't want to get closer; no bragging rights there. And, they will only walk that long ways to where the game stood, NOT to where the game ended up.

(No bragging rights either in telling about follow-up hikes caused by long range-low velocity-bullet failure stories)

You know this how? Do you have experience in long range hunting? What is you experience with low velocity bullet failure?

JWP,

Don't give the guy the time of day he is a troll, Just like the author of this thread. Let them live in there own little world where they know everything. Plenty of good folks here to converse with.

As far as I'm concerned, jwp need not prove anything here. His record speaks for itself. I'd bet he's forgotten more about hunting and shooting than this clown ever read.

I think the color is cool. The fact that you got 'em from dead animals says a lot, but lack of expansion does too.

These ultra premium bullets were developed to fill a niche in the market left when cup and core bullets didn't perform in super fast magnum cartridges. In my opinion (and I believe that everyone is entitled to their own) that is where they shine.

I personally don't care for the wear and tear on my shoulders and ears so I don't shoot magnums... to say nothing of the wear and tear on my wallet that these little chunks of gold would introduce.

Cool bullets. Definately make for sweet pics when driven fast enough. Those Whelen bullets woulda looked a lot cooler if they'd have been Interlocks or even Partitions shot quartering-to or -away... in my opinion. Even so, dead is dead, but in a Whelen I think there are better nails for that particular hammer.

Thanks for sharing!

Nice friendly thread here.

I don't have a dog in this argument or a desire to be involved but in my (limited) experience with FMJs they don't do much damage unless bone is hit. I suspect this beaver is no exception. I shot a few coyotes with 223 FMJs and they usually ran a good hundred yards before they died. When they did die right there, they were hit in the head or shoulder and bone splintage looked to be the cause of the massive damage.

I have also seen the same thing with dogs hit with my 340 Wby and tough "elk" bullets. With a .338 bullet through the lungs they don't just fold up instantly like they do with a good expanding .224 soft point.

just got back from RSA. My Son shot a Kudu, Zebra, Warthog, Duiker and an Impala with a 7mm-08 using Barnes 140gr TSX's @ 2800 fps. Very minimal expansion. 4 out of 5 animals were shot thru the heart. The Zebra was shot thru the shoulders-Heart. 7mm hole in and 7mm hole out. Ran 120 yards before it died, not a single drop of blood!!!
I used .338 WM 225 TTSX's .338 hole in and about 3/4 inch exit hole, lots of blood.
Any one else experience similar problems with the TSX's
Mike

I'm going to be developing a load for 225 gr. Tipped TSX's for my wife's .338 Win. I suppose it will fail as badly as all of the old original 225X's did on all of her one shot kills! I believe she's somewhere around 6 or 7 elk, 1 bear and 1 moose. Pretty poor performance by any measure. memtb

I wouldn't know if they failed or not. I've never recovered one from an animal, and every one I've shot with a TSX died almost where it stood.

Try the 110 grain TTSX for the 7-08 @ ~3200fps. You'll get much more expansion with the extra speed and the bigger nose cavity + polymer tip.

I picked up a box of those 110's to try out this year. They are practically the same length as a 140gr BTSP. Seems like every time I hear about a TSX not expanding much, it's the hollowpoint version, is hitting at a fairly low impact speed, and is below .30cal in diameter. I have had no expansion problems with the standard TSX, but I've only run them at high speeds (3,300+). My TTSX experience is limited to .308 and .338 versions, but MV's were at 2,900fps and expansion was always good.

I have been using the ttsx for a few years now with no complaints. Shot a wild boar in California with my 284 win loaded with the 140 ttsx, hit him in the neck, one shot kill with a one inch plus exit hole. Last December I shot my first bull elk at 270 yds with my 300 wsm using the 165 ttsx, it runs 3160 out of my Win m70, hit the shoulder going in, found bullet in hide on opposite side, dropped in his tracks.

Tail Hunter,
Thanks for the advice. I will try speeding up the lighter bullet and switch to the TTSX. Like I said in my original post I was very satisfied with the performance of the 225 TTSX I used in my .338WM. It was the 140 TSX in my Son's 7-08 that did not expand.
I normally shoot the TSX/TTSX's in larger calibers (above .338) This was our first go at using the TSX's in the smaller caliber.
HMMMM! Maybe if I am stuck on using the 140 grain bullet I will just have to go out and buy a 7mm mag or a 7mmSTW. LOL!

I've only shot two cow elk with my .35 Whelen and the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. The first was in 2010 at about 150 yards. Elk dropped very fast at impact. Elk #2 was shot with the same load as before and dropped at impact. Range about 350 yards.What can I say when I'm running 100 percent? The load does 2710 FPS at the muzzle.
I have heard thoughthat speed is the monometal bullet's friend regarding proper performance. I realize two cow elk is not much for statisical proof but you can bet I'll most likely be using that .35 Whelen on elk again next year. Well maybe. I have two rifles that haven't been blooded yet and if I don't draw for deer I just may use one of those. JUst have to see how that works out.
Someone commented that theyd like to see a lead/jacketed bullet punch knitting needle holes. Well, I had that happen on the largest bodied Mule Deer I ever killed. Bullet was a Nosler 180 gr. Partition. The first shot cut a narrow groove in the top of the deer's heart without actually puncturing a hole in it. Shot #2 punched through both lungs. When I opened him up, the holes in the lungs looked like I'd poked him with a #2 pencil. No other damage except that tiny hole. I broke his neck with the last shot. So yes, stuff does happen and sometimes bullets just don't behave like they're supposed to.
Paul B.

I used the TSX 130 .277's on at least fifty plains game and had inconsistent expansion. This was over about an eight year period. About one in ten either expanded less than expected or the nose riveted to one side and failed to expand. The new TTSX seem to have solved that problem. Have used both 110 & 130 without problems.

Don't go lighter with the -08 unless you're just shooting the lighter animals. Try the TTSX instead. The old original 140 XFB in the 7mm-08, (not the later sleeker ogive XFBs), had a perfect track record in my 7mm-08 on an uncounted number of caribou. That bullet was responsible for tipping many of those animals over right on the spot and I never recovered a single one of them. In my first outing with the 120 TSX (and TTSX), I recovered one of the TSXs in a caribou. Expansion was minimal and the animal, though the bullet cut a long, eventually lethal path, benefited from a finisher. The double-Ts seem to have a bit more 'whack' to them.

I shot a bull elk with a .338 cal. 185 TTSX at an impact vel of ~2600. Two quick shots actually. Surprisingly small exit wounds, but the internal damage was significant. I got tremendous blood from one shot and zero blood from the other. Both went through lungs. Total distance traveled was ~20yds. It worked, and very well, but I was surprised at how small the exit was. Had to dig around in the fur to even find it.

I used 200 grain TSXs in my .300 Win. Mag in Africa recently and thought I'd share my experience:

On the larger stuff, they made smaller exit wounds than the smaller animals. I'm talking like .6 or .7 inch exit holes. Also, the one I recovered on the off side of an eland had mushroomed, but not as much as I like to see.

My conclusions:

1) Even the .300 WM doesn't have enough oomph to expand a 200 grainer properly on bigger animals (although this eland shot was at 250 yards).

2) And, the bullets were doing max damage about the time they exited the smaller animals.

!