I've got a rifle in .223 with a 1:12 twist barrel that shoots 69 gr. Sierra Match Kings in 1.5" groups at 100 yards, but I only get about 6" groups with 60 gr. Nosler pointed soft points (if you could even call them "groups" because they are all over the place. Now, a 1:12 twist .223 barrel shouldn't even shoot the 69's for crap because it supposedly isn't a fast enough twist to stabilize them.
Both loads were charged with 24.2 grains of TAC and loaded to the recommended C.O.L., which I believe is around 2.25" if I recall correctly.
I haven't tried the rifle with lighter bullets yet, but plan to pick up some 55 grain pills of some sort as soon as I can.
What's going on?

I'd be awfully leery of any 223 that shot any bullet into 6" groups. Something is really wrong there. Never experienced such a rifle. You have more problems than twist rate.

But nothing seems to be wrong when it shoots the 69's. ???

Except for group size. I have many .223 rifles that shoot better than that at 400 yards. I'd be suspect of the barrel for sure. You are not saying what kind of rifle it is either.

Where are you getting Nosler 60 grain pointed soft points?

You have something else going on. And I would be checking screws, bedding and optics first.

That said a good 'ol 55gr vmax or sp should shoot just fine out of about anything. I prefer the 62gr btsp these days...If your gun wont shoot with those, you have issues

They were given to me by a member here on the 'Fire.

It's a brand new Browning BLR. I mounted a Leupold 1-5x20 on it myself and thought I did a pretty good job of it when I did so. If it weren't for the good grouping of the 69's I would remove it and re-mount. I may do so anyway.
FWIW, I'm not a novice rifleman or reloader - master level with Service Rifle - I load and shoot thousands of rounds per year in .223 and with my White Oak Armament upper on my AR15 I get boring 1/2" groups all day long at 100 yards. I don't expect a BLR to match my White Oak, but something seems to be amiss with the 60's. They are "factory seconds", but I shoot "factory second" 52 Hornady's in my AR15 in practice at 100 yards all the time without issue.

A 223 BLR would be a neat rifle!

1.5" groups at 100 for a .223 isnt exactly great either. I wouldnt be concerned about the bullets being factory seconds.

Load up some of those 52's that you have, and see what happens

Yeah, I agree. The crosshairs on the scope were thicker than the dot I was shooting at, so I may have to play around with a gridded target to get things right next time. Plus 5X power is a little bit of a hindrance too. Heck, I may just take the scope off and try it with open sights for a few rounds and see what I get.

I dont really shoot paper all that much, Not into high x scopes either... I have always done better shooting at the corner of something. Kinda bracket the corner with both crosshairs.

Make the effort to get the right target for your reticle/magnification combination, it makes a real difference.

Any recommendations?

try this target:

I just use a piece of blank paper on cardboard. gives you 4 corners to shoot at

A large + sign with the line thickness adjusted to your reticle works well.

Now that's about as simple as it gets. And functional.

Regarding proper targets: It's sad that 10 years ago, when my eyes were younger, I could shoot 1/2 groups with my WOA upper with open sights - and I mean the P.O.S. open post sights on my Service Rifle. About the time my eyesight started going south scopes began being allowed in Service Rifle competitions, so I thought it would be nirvana. Unfortunately, with a scope, I have only tied my best score that I shot with open sights.
Two lessons I learned: 1) scopes don't make you a better shooter, and 2) aging sucks. 😄

you get that thing sighted in yet?

Irons are kind of cool that way, and you are right about eyesight. Since you brought up AR's and how well yours shoots, this is the only one of mine set up with irons. They are flip up's, but they work well..


Less than 1/2 moa for 4 shots in the rain. And since we are talking 69gr SMK, that is what I was using that day. That rifle shoots the same with a scope as it does with irons. In the black rifle challenge here, It held the best iron sight score of 1.085 moa with the 69smk.

Here's the first sentence regarding that bullet from Sierra:
Designed for Service Rifle competition in the M16A2/AR-15A2, our 22 caliber bullets have set an incredible number of new national records.
No wonder it works so great in my old bushy 20" HBAR:


mathma's suggestion for using the correct size target for the reticle is important. I don't know the accuracy/precision capabilities of your rifle (BLR). Never messed with one. Maybe they are just mediocre shooters???

never miss an opportunity do ya?

I hope to tomorrow. 👍

OK gentlemen, here's what I got figured out on this BLR. It shoots pretty decent groups (around 1") IF you let it cool off between shots after the first two shots.
I loaded up some 52 and 60 grain bullets that I know shoot lights-out in my heavy-barreled White Oak floated upper and put the BLR through it's paces. I would fire 3-round groups and my buddy that was spotting for me through the spotting scope would growl in dismay on every third shot. In between my shooting we were messing around with his 22 Mini-magnum Marlin (a short barrel 22 mag rifle), allowing my BLR to cool down a bit. Every time we would go back to my BLR it would stack the first two shots within 1" of one another and the 3rd shot would be low and left by 2"-3".
I guess I've just been spoiled by my White Oak match grade free-floated barrel, which will stack rounds on target all day long regardless of how hot the barrel gets.
I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the BLR or not. It's accurate enough if you take your time shooting, but it's no prairie dog town varmint rifle.

Now I'm curious about the 60gr Noslers and if they'll be accurate enough for deer. You'll likely only get 1-2 shots at a time..

Good luck!!

It was the Nosler 60's I was shooting today. Yes, they are accurate enough to get it done on a deer - at 100 yards, at least. 😏

Seems somebody on here pulled the barrel band and floated the forend a blr a while back

The accuracy of the 60 gr Partition was never anything stellar, in any gun.

Right on cue.........

Nosier bullets are probably not going to shoot with a Sierra. Sierra and Berger are the best shooting factory bullets. Hornady is 3rd and nosler behind that. I get more flyers with noslers across the board

Nosler lists data for the 60 gr BT using a 1:7" twist test barrel. Maybe they know something - then again, maybe not.

Folks who actually shoot,savvy that weight is all but moot and it's all about projectile length,whe factoring stability. Hint.

The Nuzzler 60gr NPT is .790" long. The Nuzzler 60gr NBT is .858" long. The Nuzzler 64gr NPT is .800" long. It'll "surprise" nobody that shoots,that the 60 NBT requires more gross RPM. The Nuzzlers as a whole,are an easy pass. Hint.

Just sayin'............

So for a slow twist barrel like a 1:12 one should be looking for as short a bullet as possible, regardless of weight?
If that's the case, then a boat tail bullet may work well if you want to get the weight up while keeping the bearing surface shorter. Or is it the overall length that matters, not the bearing surface?

I would simply Start At The Fhuqking Start,if only as per always. I'd MEASURE the ACTUAL twist rate and go from there,as an opening move. Hint.

Nuzzlers would be amongst the LAST projectiles I'd use,to factor the inherent aptitude of a platform. Hint.

What's the application? Hint...............