Hey all! I recently did a transaction with an individual here on the 24 Hour Campfire. It was for a bunch of .223 brass, and loaded ammo with dies, shipped separately, to his residence which arrived on time. The Rifle I shipped 2-3 day Priority, INSURED to his FFL, and has not arrived, I shipped it 2 to 3 day priority and insured, and it has been 11 DAYS, and counting, with the USPS not knowing where the package is. ALL they can tell me is that its not at my post office and in transit. The person I shipped it to did a check with the numbers I provided him from my USPS, and it showed me dropping off the package and no scanning in between. I WILL NEVER SHIPP A FIREARM OR OTHER PACKAGE,WITH THE USPS. THE USPS IS A TOTAL FRIGGING JOKE. I PAYED FOR A 2 to 3 DAY PRIORITY PACKAGE INSURED FOR $300.00 AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THE PACKAGE IS. I want the individual to get the firearm because if after the 30 day requirement for fileing a claim, iff reimbersed Ill have to pay the buyer his money back and Im out a RIFLE. Just a heads up to anyone shipping anything through the USPS. {BEWARE}

i have had the same thing happen with ups except it wasnt a gun but they damaged it after 15 days in transit and i filed a claim and they said it was inproper packaged even though they did it and they wouldnt cover it.

Me too.........to the tune of $600/I never use ups.

to get top shelf handling with usps, you need to insure for a grand...sux i know.

USPS has been great for me. I will use them everytime. Send it Registered and insured. Registered requires a signature by ALL who handle it. Very easy to track. Never have had a problem.

I use USPS all the time but once a $300 stock took like 15-18 days by priority. Happens once in awhile.
Dave

Never had a problem shipping guns or what ever by USPS Priority or otherwise. the only way to go to & from Alaska. I'll not be using UPS again anytime soon. Just sent a package to Montana via Priority mail last Sat afternoon He got it Monday. Now that's service!!! --- Mel

NEVER use USPS!!! I make hand made hunting knives as a hobby. A year and a half ago I shipped a beautiful knife to New Mexico to a client and it never showed. It was insured for $500. I filed the necessary paperwork and I got a reply that they would not pay the insurance claim because "you can't ascertain the true value of something that is handmade"! Godamighty! I responded to their letter with pictures of the knife, certified appraisals, copies of invoices and correspondance where price was agreed on and got another letter that said "We still cannot properly determine the value. Claim denied" Further correspondance has just plain been ignored by the USPS. I ship UPS from then on with no problem. I am contacting our US Senator's that I happen to know and am going to get to the bottom of this. USPS can kiss my royal a$$.

I had the exact same thing happen in 06 I shipped a rifle priority mail and it got to the smith's 18 days later I called the post office and got the typical run around,it finally showed up safe,I wouldn't sweat it to much yet it should show up soon!I hope your out come is the same as mine! I use UPS now.

yes same type of thing afew years back with a bow on ebay item damage not proprley packed not covered. wife packed it this was her full time job at a gun and ammo place that was all she done pack ups items ups B.S. never again shipped ups that been over 150 items ago no more shipping issuses

That is exactly the way I do it. I also insure every rifle and scope I sell or trade, at my own expense.

If you collect the insurance and refund his money, how are you out anything unless you underinsured the gun, you were paid twice for it and refunded once, or am I missing something?

USPS has been great for me. I will use them everytime. Send it Registered and insured. Registered requires a signature by ALL who handle it. Very easy to track. Never have had a problem.

The above is my experience exactly, unlike a couple of rather unpleasant experiences with UPS.

The problem as I see it is that you just need a rant to get rid of your frustration. Chances are that it will show up perhaps not as fast as you expected, but nevertheless even if it doesn't it is insured and you are only out a little time without your money.

The good thing about sending it registered and insured is that when handlers know they can be tracked then they tend to take pay more attention, which insures that your package will more than likely arrive on time and intact.

I mostly use Fedex for my shipping. And all items are insured.

A few months back I sold a gun to a 24campfire member and the stock arrived damaged. I filed a damage claim and 17 days later, I got the gun back and the full amount of the claim.

The 24 campfire got his money and I got the gun and the ammount of the claim. Worked out good.

You shipped loaded ammunition via USPS? Umm...

Huh!

No USPS, 223 can't kill deer, Big Ten is great, yep end of days is near........

I always ship firearms thru USPS insured priority and never had a bit of trouble with em.................

priority these days means pretty tape on the box. you cant regard the three day thing as rule. they have lost more stuff (letters) on me this year than ever before.

i am still waiting for them to find two MO'S totaling $250. as far as your box goes it will show up i am sure. two weeks isn't really that bad considering the time of year...

they are still the best bang for the buck.

woofer

And skinny barrels don't shoot.

Rock on...

Fedex Ground is the way to go ...cheap and fast. Beats USPS and UPS.

Not in Alaska........

SO iff I MIS- understand you incorrectly. It's OK to pay for 2 to 3 day PRIORITY shipping delivery. And even iff it's insured! AS long as it makes to the 30 day destination delivery date it's ok. Get real! Iff you pay for 2 to 3 day priority shipment then, BY GOD that is what you should get. Any thing lesser is fraud. Thats whats wrong with AMERICA TODAY! The USPS is out of controll, Look at the PRICE OF STAMPS going up EVERY three MONTHS with no FIGHT from CONGRESS. I expect a PACKAGE TO BE DELIVERED TO A VIABLE ADDRESS within SEVEN DAYS iff PAID FOR A 2 to 3 DAY AIR DELIVERY period.

I tried to ship a rifle USPS today and was told that they have changed their policy. An individual can no longer mail a rifle or shotgun. Has to be mailed by a dealer. I called him on it, and he made a phone call right then. They corroborated his story.
They sure haven't updated their website to show this. I mailed a shotgun several months ago.
Melvin

Wish I had your problems........

Melvin,

They're wrong. It's still legal.

I shipped a rifle today USPS Priority.

Handguns require an FFL licensee on both ends.

$bob$

Yeah, that's what I thought too, until today.

I normally ship FedEx ground, depending on where it's going.

I took a rifle in today, and was informed that it HAD to go PRIORITY OVERNIGHT!

I questioned them, saying I had done it in the past. She showed it to me, in writing. (Amongst other things, i.e. no individual to individual, no ammo, etc).

I had committed to shipping the rifle today, couldn't get to the post office in time, so had no choice but to suck it up and send it. The price difference was more than FIVE TIMES what it would have been vs ground.

It left such a sour taste that I doubt I'll sell any more rifles other than face-to-face. To get a buyer to pay the true cost (even USPS insured was over $30, plus a box, gas, etc), or to eat part of it on every deal, pretty much takes the fun out of it.

Oh, I was PI$$ED at FedEx today....

STILL NO DELIVERY! SHIPPED ON 12/28/2007. This SUCKS BIGTIME!

This happened to me last year. The USPS allows up to 14 BUSINESS days for delivery; you've only passed 9.

Only gun I've ever had lost in transit was by USPS. It was a beautiful and very rare Krieghoff Mauser. The seller insisted on shipping USPS.

I'm sure it's sitting in the back of some postal workers closet and he has no idea what this beautiful gem is worth. He'll probably kill his boss on retirment day with it. My only hope is he turns it on himself.

Yea, I hear all the good things about USPS, but they tried to deny the claim on the rifle also. IMO, they're no better than the rest.

Terry

Yep. USPS REGISTERED!

If you send it registered, it will take a bit longer for delivery than ordinarily, because each transfer within the postal system has to be documented. It's really rare for registered packages to wind up in postal workers closets, because they have to demonstrate to snoopy postal inspectors that they handed it off properly.

If you're really concerned, ask for a return signature delivery.



--Bob

Same story at my P/O.

Terry

Hey Hogbuster-

I'm a manager with the USPS. I'd like to help you out. Please check your PM.

Jeff

Ngrumba,

What is the real policy? Straight from a USPS Manager ?

What I have found is no hastle when I ship from my Post Office in Sioux City, IA, the Morningside branch.

But my brother in Bondurant IA gets the "We can't ship guns" runaround from his local Post Office.

Inform us.

Thanks,

F1

There ya go.

I shipped a rifle just this week. It seems to me, the best thing a guy can have going for him when shipping USPS, is to know the rules and procedures for shipping longarms and cite them to the clerk at the first sign they are uncertain. It's worked for me everytime, though some look at you like you're a criminal......grin

You could answer that question for yourself if you took the time to look it up on the USPS' website. It's pretty well spelled out in plain English.

http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1099754

"11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice."

For one thing, sometimes it takes a while for websites to be updated! When I was turned down trying to ship a rifle recently, he said it was recently decided that the USPS would not ship rifles, shotguns from private citizens. I had only recently shipped a shotgun from this same P. O. I had a copy of the regs from the website, and called him on it. He made a phone call(to who knows where?!) and they confirmed the rule change.
So, what is a person to do??
Melvin

It's said that for a long time. The two paragraphs above refer to shipping firearms that are not legal.

If you read the posts above you would see the problem isn't the legality of shipping but whether or not the PO employees know their own rules. I can read, can you?

Uh, call the postal inspector's office. Your local post office is feeding you a line of crap in the form of their personal beliefs. (Website update my ass. They have the exact same damned domestic mail manual in the post office.) I've been through this and met the same ignorant intolerance. The postal inspector's office put an end to it for me.

You and your local post office need to pay particularly close attention to this item:

"Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns."

My post office has no problem with shipping a rifle or shotgun. My problem is some ignorant, nothead that has probably been on the FED payroll for 30 days and misunderstands the regulation on FIREARM SHIPMENT. He or she probably put a hold on the item or something like that. My only regret is not getting a tracking # and signature confirmation like I ask for at the counter. And the counter person just blew me off I guess. I just ASSUMED it was on my receipt. After checking closely, after a couple days guess what, neither was added to the package. LESSON LEARNED!
Thanks for the input so far.

"1.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice. "

You left off the rest of that regulation about the ATF
Of course they aren't allowed to give opinions on ATF regulations! But they are certainly able to give postal regulations. The above regulation posted is talking about whether it is legal under ATF regulations, which of course they can't comment on.
I'm definitely NOT taking up for the P.O. I have an inquiry in now for an official ruling, which I will definetly print and keep with me.
Melvin

No, I didn't "leave off" anything. The point you're missing is you're getting fed a line of crap from some self-important idiot. I've given a link to the USPS' official policy as well as the quote regarding it. You and the USPS employee can look up the regulations TOGETHER in the domestic mail manual. You're welcome to look up the BATFE's regulations regarding the shipment of firearms and they'll tell you the same thing. Why are you making this so hard on yourself?

Any BATFE office is going to quote you this:

"(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?


A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

Read. Comprehend. Then act. In that order.

Rocky, I found your rifle. Please give me a call at the number I gave you in the PM.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff
I contacted the receiving party and he is going to get his FFL Dealer to sign for it. Im happy to get this resolved without having to file a insurance claim and all that.
You are one hell of a guy.
Thanks agin.
ROCKY

So, uh, what was the deal here?

You have to know the secret handshake

I've seen Jeff stepup before. SUPER!!.

Jeff,
BTW- Has USPS changed regulations? I ship LOTS of stuff and I have two rifles that need to leave in the next week.

Dave

The regulations haven't changed. You can still ship long guns.

Hello Ngrumba
Im currious why the item in question was never scanned as being received, at the final destination?
What does Ngrumba mean or stand for? Sounds AFRICAN to me!
Thanks agin for your help on this situation.
Rocky

Uh-huh. Sounds like there might be a little more to this story than meets the eye.

Ngrumba = "the roar of a Lion" - name given to me by trackers on my first safari.

Don't know why it wasn't scanned. Should have been.

I have talked to the individual who bought the rifle in question an said that he will get in touch with his FFL this evening and sign for the rifle. Keep your powder dry, and your nose to the wind, may the gods be with you on your next SAFARI.
Sincerely ROCKY

Well, after I couldn't ship my rifle, I got a friend who has an FFL to ship it. That was last Wed., 01/09/08. Sent it Priority with delivery confirmation, insured for $2000. As of today, it hasn't arrived at it's destination in Colorado. That's one week for a supposedly 2 or 3 day delivery.I know there was a weekend in there, but does the mail not move at all on weekends????????!!! I paid $56 for shipping, and I think it could have gotten there regular mail in that time.
Will keeep you posted.
Jeff, I may need your help also!!!!!
Melvin

Priority Mail is very unpredictable, and more of a marketing gimmick than a true "service".

Pay extra with FedEx for overnight, and you get a guarantee, with tracking. Pay extra for Priority, and find out that all it really "is", is a 2 to 3 day "average", with no guarantee, and no way to follow it, unless you want to pay even more for some sort of tracking.

After this, I will no longer ship a gun. Period! When I offered this rifle for sale, I put in the ad, local sale only. I let a guy in Australia talk me into shipping it to an exporter in Colorado, to be shipped to him. I reluctantly agreed.
It's just too much hassle and worry, no matter what shipper you use, and I will not go through this again. Not to mention the exorbitant costs they want to ship.
Melvin

I gotta agree with you Melvin.

My last couple experiences haven't been great, and have soured me on shipping guns.

I'll still ship scopes, parts, etc, but I think after this, my gun sales are just going to be local. Too much hassle and expense to make it worthwhile any more.

Good plan. You should just give up. Tuck your tail between your legs and go home.

You know, there are some people that try hard to be A**holes, and then there are some to whom it just comes naturally!
Melvin

And there are some people who are weak-willed. You really should just give up on shipping a firearm. It's obviously much too difficult a task for you.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into doing anything they don't want to but I will say this about USPS. As most guys on here know I buy and sell a lot of stuff to try out. I ship as much stuff privately as what everyone can see and I have been VERY satisfied with USPS Priority. In all honesty I have probably shipped 200 items in the last year or year and a half and all but 2 arrived in 5 days or less. One stock took 13-14 days for no known reason and a rifle took 5 days. All the rest took 2-3 days. This is rifles, stocks and optics. I alwasys package well and make my own label in Excel, large and easy to read. I know full well that stuff happens but I don't think it's the norm. I DO NOT use parcel though because it can be 7-10 days I don't like it to drag out that long.

It helps that my PO folks are pretty good people too.....
My .02
Dave

I agree, some postal employees do not scan packages as they should. I mailed a rifle, priority, to MT from AZ a year ago. Tried to track it using the on-line tracking service. The package was scanned as received, never scanned delivered, or any point in between AZ and MT. I called the recipient in MT and was told that yes the package had been delivered, on time and in good shape. I then called the Postmaster in MT, mysteriously the package was scanned into the sytem, as delivered, the next day.

I still prefer Priority mail to other means, and have received good service on all but a few shipments. Those few have been breath taking though, and generally assiciated with human failing. That's just the odds associated with human transactions.

Well, the rifle showed up at it's destination today. 7 days exactly after I mailed it.
Will not go through this again!
Thanks,
melvin

Kampfeld Customs mailed my rifle back to me an individual with no problem,last week.

Yeah, we know. You already informed everyone that you're a quitter. Ad nauseum.

I also can't understand what the big deal is... I ship and receive all kinds of stuff through the USPS and have never had any problems going either way.

Methinks some of us here are too easily discouraged.

When I move to a new area I find myself having to politely educate the people at my new PO as to laws and USPS policy because many of them have NEVER shipped a rifle but once they're "on the program" I never have any more problems with them.

It's really quite easy and worry free. I strongly suggest that you always insure packages. I think it must get them special handling because I've never even had a damage problem either.

It can't be all luck that after years and years of buying and selling and shipping stuff that I'm continually lucky.

I think that also packaging is VERY important and I go through a lot of Scotch Packaging Tape rolls dispensed from tape guns.

Note to the newbies... Wal-Mart bags, and many other store plastic bags, make a great and lightweight packaging material that's much easier to handle and store than those infernal styrofoam peanuts. Plus it seems that every household has a surplus of them.

Another idea is to go to your favorite gun store and ask for rifle shipping boxes. Many people just ask the stores to throw away the box and packaging materials when they buy new rifles so they're eager for you to cart them off and save them the trouble.

$bob$

Here's another tip: DON'T PACK YOUR GUN IN A BOX THAT SAYS "GUN INSIDE" OR MARK IT TO INDICATE ITS CONTENTS.

Yeah, that sounds like a no-brainer, but my local post office told me about an incident about a year ago or so with a customer who just couldn't understand why they -- the USPS -- wouldn't accept his rifle for shipment. It seems this person was trying to ship his rifle in a green Remington box that said "Model 700" and "Firearms Safety Begins With You!" all over it. They tried to explain why they couldn't accept it due to the packaging, but the customer wouldn't hear any of it.

You'd think it would be obvious to anyone.

You shouldn't flatter your perceived reading skills. The two paragraphs I quoted are the regulations regarding firearms that are mailable by individuals. (I.e. non-licensees who wish to mail long guns.)

The regulations to which you are incorrectly referring, i.e. the so-called non-legal firearms states this:

"11.0 Other Restricted and Nonmailable Matter

11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms

11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6."

If you had read my post, you would see that the purpose of posting this regulation is to give someone a footing on which to base their explanation or argument to an uninformed USPS representative.

Are you able to read that?

I prefer to ship rifles in the original factory shipping box when available. The box is designed to protect it.
When you ship a rifle registered, the postal employee, always hands me a roll of brown tape and a wet sponge to seal all edges, and cover all writing on the box.
It's really simple, USPS Priority, Registered, Insured for $700, cost me $26 to ship about 900 miles.
Seems fair to me, and fairly worry free.

I want to speak up for USPS employees! They have a bzillion regulations to keep up with and we certainly can't expect to know them all.

A year or so ago they received a directive not to mail any handguns unless the sender was an FFL licensee and there was a lot of confusion because it wasn't clear that the directive didn't include long guns.

Please be patient with them folks.

It's a very hard thankless job and can get worse fast when one of use cranky gun nuts get's his dander up...

$bob$

+1.

I used to get some grief when mailing firearms (and I mail a lot of them). It took nothing more than making an effort to get to know the employees there, and letting them get to know me. Now they are fantastic to work with.

I can tell you that if you immediately tell the employee that they are wrong about the regulations, they will most likely dig their heels in and "prove" that YOU are wrong, no matter what the truth may be.

A little tact and respect can go a long way when dealing with government employees.

Yes, the box is great -- provided you adhere to the regulation regarding there being no label or marking on it that would indicate its contents to be a firearm.

Wrapping the factory box with brown shipping paper is a good plan.

Though you'd be surprised at the people who think they can simply slap some tape and a mailing label on the box and send it on its way.

I've had at least 5 dozen show up exactly that way.

Actually, that's not that great of a plan. The USPS recommends that you don't use wrapping paper, string, string tape, masking tape, or duct tape when mailing boxes. They get caught in the automation machines, and can very rapidly get crunched. Everything (including large parcels) are automated now. In San Diego alone, we process over 30 million pieces of mail per night.

I'd recomend turning the box inside out if it says "Winchester" or some such identification as a firearm. Personally I use 3M clear wrapping tape. It is stronger than the box.

I've shipped rifles many times, and don't hesitate to use the USPS. Just shipped a rifle this week.

Jeff

That's just asking for trouble.

I have used the USPS also, but I have purchased a rifle that was shipped or recieved on 1/1/08 with tracking number. I have never gotten an update and still have not recieved the firearm!13 DAYS from Idaho to LA. Come on!! I'll never ship a firearm againn with the USPS.Thanks for the vent!:(

Huh????

I've never had problems with the main UPS places, the UPS store doe suck.

So what's the tracking number... post her up .

Spot

The UPS Store is NOT UPS!!!!!!!! They are franchisees of the chain formerly known as Mail Boxes Etc.

Item was recieved in Idaho on 1/04/08. Haven't gotten an update or the gun yet. VH599144148US

That's a USPS tracking number... Results are...

------------------------
Label/Receipt Number: VH59 9144 148U S
Status: Acceptance

Your item was accepted at 12:57 PM on January 4, 2008 in POCATELLO, ID 83202. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later
------------------------

$bob$

OK... Here's the plan.

Print what I just copied and pasted above and take it to your local Post Office and ask them very nicely if someone will please do an quick internal check to see if they can confirm where it is.

It's a little known fact that they can do that.

They're not supposed to do it for YOU but if you handle it right they might.

You'd better dang sure hope this was insured for full value so the USPS will have a very serious reason to try to find it.

$bob$

It was insured and the shipper is supposed to check this morning.I do appericate the help.