To the guy by the name Donnie Isaacs.
He has harraased me since Thursday over a sale of a ruger #1 in which when the rifle left here it was 90%-95% .
I have more than one witness to the fact to the condition of said rifle.
He has done it to more than one person after u google his name. There's a list of problems with this guy

Don't know him but run across him everywhere there is guns for sale
Forums, auction sites etc also known as privatepilot IIRC

He's a grade A [bleep] douchebag!

good to know

When I see info like this, the first thing I do is go to the User List, find the user name, click on their profile, and then use the "block user" function. This at least lessens the chance of me being scammed by them in the future.

Thanks for sharing.

Where is he located? I think I had a dealing with him on another forum.

What's his screen name here?

thats a good reason to take photos of it and keep them until the item is received on the other end , especially when you get into the hundreds of dollars

or better yet take the photos and send them to the purchaser too , sometimes things go awry no matter what

So he's saying the condition is less than what you advertised and wants some money back??

To ignore him we need a user/screen name??

Privatepilot = Donnie Isaacs = [bleep] douchebag!

privatepilot. I remember now he wanted me to send some money back to him, he claimed that he paid too much for the gun. He has a FFL and is a dealer.

Here he be: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/users/14052/privatepilot

I've seen the name on guns america or guns international. I wasn;t sure of his reputation until now. Thanks for looking out for the rest of us.

you gotta be [bleep] me. i fell for it and bought the guy a stock. he said the bolt came loose in shipping and scratched the stock. i honestly assumed it did and bought the guy a new stock. he seemed straight up to me.

i guess i'm naive.

Thanks for the info good to know

His screen name here is "private pilot"
He's been threatening me with small claims court n saying the rifle was worse than I told him I have every email n pic of the rifle n more witness's than I wanna count as to what the condition of the rifle was the day I put it in the box n shipped it.
He has been trying since the first day to get me to give him something extra in the deal n I wont budge on it.
First class douchebag at its finest.
I have bought n sold a few things on this site n haven't had one problem with anything I've sold being not what I said it was.

If it tells you anything, he's the ONLY [bleep] I still have on ignore after all the years I've been on this board! Not even Larry Root or TRH makes that list!..

Pretty sure he'd have to file it in your county of residence....not his. Dare him to file on you and kick his ass in small claims court in your own backyard. It really wouldn't be worth his time even if he's right....which he's not.

If there was an inspection period as part of the sale agreement, then that was the time for him to voice his concerns and return the rifle minus shipping. Otherwise, he and his "small claims court" can f*ck off. The deal has been consummated at this point.

Sounds like this guy needs to be blacklisted.

Do you have his phone number? Maybe he could use some suggestions on where to go?

I never gave a check it out period.
I Knowed what the rifle was n how good of condition it was in.
he has done it b4
Google his name n u will find basically the same snails I've got to a guy on Carolina shooters

Then your only obligation was to provide him with the agreed upon rifle for the agreed upon price. I wouldn't sweat anything else other than to make sure he gets blacklisted. He can start selling with the sodomites on Glocktalk and the other [bleep] boards.

Pretty foolish on his part, if you think about it.

You'd think he'd find better places to go scam people than a forum full of guys that have guns.

Kind of shows his mentality (or lack there of) right off the bat.

I never gave a inspection period on the rifle in the sale.
I Knowed the condition of the rifle n what shape it was in .

He is located in Missouri

Another one on ignore..

i ran into him on another site he wouldnt stop emailing me and told me my gun was worth nothing and would do me a favor you know the type. well he turns out to be a buyer for a big online gun sales place. i dont know the name he told me about it i checked him out.if you get a return better make sure its your gun i heard he has pulled the switcharoo on a few guys

Im seeing a pattern here.

Sounds like the same guy that got me to refund some money on a tang safety Ruger m77 RSI about 2 years ago. He said that he stock was damaged due to poor packageing. I believe that I "over package" guns and parts that I sell and have never had an issue. He sent pix and threatened me with suit as well. I thought I might have made a mistake and sent $120.00 back.

When it was all said and done, I looked at the pix of the stock and I am pretty sure that it wasnt the stock that was on the gun when I sent it.

Stick to your guns, if he is the same guy, he's a flippin crook!

I looked for his name and in his info page there was a link to a web site named gunpickers.

Seems he been doing this all the way back to 2006 from my understanding.

Only 4.5M for nosepickers.com
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MakeBestOffer&rev=0&itemId=220926972720

looks like a deal.

I just found out how to use the ignore feature. Thanks for the tip. Shame.

Ignore his requests and post his phone number and any and all addresses he used. This all sucks for sure, but it ain't getting moe clearer to understand.

Not cool definitely needs a good ass kicking

[email protected]
660-731-5766

Just added him to my ignore list.

I sold him a Weatherby a few years back and the sale couldn't have been smoother. I even got more that what the rifle was worth.

People can change, but the internet sure makes the world a small place when become a cheat.

I know Rick doesn't like to get involved with dealings here but he should consider banning this ass wipe for the protection of his members. Actually, if he had screwed me I think I would go around to every site I knew he was on and try to get him shut down.

Tell him you will see him in court. He is posting FFl info on cheaper than dirt.

Isaacs Guns Llc
(660) 731-5766

Location: 401 S Main
Bogard, MO. 64622

Mailing Address: Isaacs Guns Llc
401 S Main
Bogard, MO. 64622

sounds like anyone who got taken by him should be contacting the people who give out FFLs.
I sure they would be damned interested in his activities.

Maybe you need to talk to some of the good ol' boys in Skidmore and have them go down and have a "talk " with him.

Just put him on ignore; my first ever.

same thing he did to me. probably uses the same stock pic on all his victims.

Ditto


Sounds like a real piece of work

he stalks a site called midwestguntrader outta kcmo

Me too. I have put more people on ignore in the last two or three weeks than all of the years that I have been here combined. miles

Looks like 98% of his posts are in the classifieds

Had a transaction with him about two years ago,no problem at all.

Nearly did a swap with him recently, but the price of his trade went up considerably when I showed interest in the particular gun, I did a "Never Mind" on it, not too surprising reading these comments. Shoot Straight or Don't Shoot at All"

He tried that crap with me on a pistol I sold him.

Not saying he did or did not do anything incorrectly, but I surely wouldn't want many of you guys on a jury in a jury trial.

I would agree that it is fraudulent to claim that something isn't what it is. However, I would also state that gun condition is a very subjective thing. Objective standards are far too often analyzed by subjective means! What may be 95 % to one person may be 85 % to another person.

In this type of case if I were the seller I would have just told him that if he were not happy with the item to please return it to me, and I would have refunded his money, less postage.

Moreover, there is nothing wrong with trying to get the best deal you can get when you buy something used. To try and get a good deal is not "crap". EVERYBODY on here does it. Everybody seems to resent it when a person is trying to get a good deal from them, but resents the seller as being a dickhead when they won't make a good deal.

Its the human condition. It has been going on for time eternal, and it will continue to go on as long as humans roam the earth. Get used to it.

Another for the ignore list.

Can anybody PM me with the ignore info I need to use this function please. Can't find it. Thank you for the heads up.

Click on the posters handle example 22WRF it will give you choices click on profile and there are choices again click on ignore and you are done!
Pete

I think its a good thing to be put on ignore by people who are idiots. That way I don't have to listen to their bullshit anymore.

22wrf, You are a piece of work. Running your trap got you in trouble over on accurate. Looks like you can't help yourself. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. IT IS A DUCK. The guy has a real bad record of saying that things aren't what was advertised or damaged in shipment. Quit with the subjective crap. I have done quite a few deals both buying and selling and have not had but maybe a one or two of times when I recieved something that I thought was not advertised as what I got. In one case I sent the item back as the bell on the scope was bent. The other I just chalked up as doing business over the web.

I bought a gun from him maybe 2 years ago with no problems,but it was a FTF deal so maybe that helped. I hate hearing that somebody is trying to jerk people around here though.Its always that 1%.

OnPoint

I might listen to you if you were capable of making an argument on the subject matter itself, and leave out personalities.

By the way, the explanation that I got for being kicked off AR was that I was "too good" for the forum.

Regardless, I stand by what I said above. I am not saying the poster was incorrect. What I am saying is that we have one side of the story on the actual transaction, and we have the human condition. Both are subjective, as is your characterization of my character.

Thank you for that! Good Sunday all.

Complete terms of the sale should've been hammered out and agreed upon by both parties prior to the sale. The basic terms of this one were met: the seller offered to sell the buyer a Ruger No. 1 at a set price. This was done and the sale completed. Now the buyer wants to go back and adjust terms of the sale. You need to think of the bigger picture.

you can also click on user list on the top of the page then search the name and then click ignore. This would be if you can't find a post from the person in question. That is what I did for privatepilot.
gary

Bricktop

From what I have read, it appears seller agreed to sell said rifle of a certain condition. I agree that whether its a Ruger, and whether its a No. 1, and whether its a .243, are all objective and quite easily agreed upon. All I was trying to point out is that it is possible that there was a misundertanding about the subjective condition of the rifle. I don't see it as the buyer wanting to go back and adjust the terms. Rather, I see it as the buyer complaining about whether the original terms were met.

1. Nobody here knows exactly what happened except the buyer and the seller.
2. What a buyer or a seller did on any previous transaction does not mean they did it on this transaction.
3. We have not heard the other side of the story.
4. I AM NOT SAYING THE POSTER IS LYING. I am saying that based on my experiences in working with people there is a huge disparity in what people say and what they mean, and what they want and what they expect.
5. Therefore, my main point was that it might be a little early for many on here to jump on either the buyer or the seller until the entire thing plays out and everybody is heard from.
6. Nevertheless, there will always be those who will rely on ad hominum argument because they have nothing else to say but they want to be heard.

Yes, I went that route first, but just had a brain fart and couldn't get it done. Oh well, aging I guess.

What I find quite interesting is that down through the years there have been many people who have advised me that they were going to "put me on ignore", and yet the next time I said something they didn't like they commented on my post.

That tells me that a lot of guys like to talk about their big dick but don't have one.

Ok. Question. If I ignore someone, will I still see their posts? It says I won't, but I have observed the same thing as above. What gives? I assumed "ignore" meant that a user could no longer PM me but I would still see his posts. Just trying to get clear.
Never mind, I see how it works now.

I'm sorry, but are you having difficulty understanding what you've "read?" I don't see anywhere -- ANYWHERE AT ALL -- that there were terms for an inspection period. I do not see that there were terms for a return or redress of any discrepancies if the buyer didn't agree with the condition. Savvy?

The basic terms of the sale were met. The buyer now wants to add additional terms. GAME OVER.

The guys here that say they have been burned by this guy are legion. I mean c'mon.
At what point do you say hmmmmm?
I've dealt with smalljawbasser and he is a top shelf dude...if he says the guy burned him, I'll take it as gospel and avoid this seller like the plague.

When somebody posts that you have on "ignore", you have the option of clicking on a link that will toggle their post on and off. So it will advise you that you have them on ignore and will give you the option of clicking to see what they posted.

Buyer saw pics. Buyer bought gun. Buyer in this case didn't ask for more pics or more detail. Not hard to understand that buyer is trying to rip seller off. Especially not difficult when he's got a history of ripping people off. Kinda' like an underwriter analyzing a loan to somebody that has declared bankruptcy in the past. History has a way of repeating itself.

with all due respect, apparently you didn't read the whole thread. this is not the first time this happened, there are at least 2 more of us who fell for the same ploy, and likely even got sent the same pic.

i tried to get him to send the rifle back to me for a full refund, but he didn't want to. said he was a collector, (this was a minty tang safety .220 swift), blah blah blah. i tried for 2 weeks to find him a new stock, but couldn't, and finally refunded him about $150 IIRC.

i did sleep like a baby though, as i'd rather the guy scam me out of $150 than have to worry about me being in the wrong. heck, i had a guy here do almost the same thing after a FACE TO FACE deal! i guess i'm an easy mark.

I was only speaking about the poster's predicament.

As I stated, what the parties did with other people in other transactions is not proof of what happened in this transaction.

"I'm sorry, but are you having difficulty understanding what you've "read?" I don't see anywhere -- ANYWHERE AT ALL -- that there were terms for an inspection period. I do not see that there were terms for a return or redress of any discrepancies if the buyer didn't agree with the condition. Savvy?"

Bricktop:

Have you seen the printed contract between the parties? Was there a written contract between the parties? If not, how do we know the terms. Is not a contract a manifestation of "mutual" assent. Here we have only heard from one party to the transaction.

Again, as I stated, only the two people in the transaction know exactly what the terms of the transaction were. And as I stated, we have not heard from the other party as to his interpretation of the terms. Therefore, as I said, it seems premature to make any sort of subjective determination of what happened. SAVVY?

22WRF, You just can't help yourself can you. Guys he will keep on and on and on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!

Onpoint

I am happy to respectfully discuss anything with anyone for as long as they wish to discuss it. Or, in other words, yes, I go on and on and on and on and on, but only if someone else goes on and on and on and on and on.

We got it the first time.Yes there are two sides to a story. But having a track record, that is what is showing.

"i'd rather the guy scam me out of $150 than have to worry about me being in the wrong."

smalljawbasser

I respect you for that.

Talk about a threadjack. Geez

Well as for the user in question "private pilot". I thought I recognized his user name. Turns out i sold him a 1/2 ounce Gold Eagle a few months ago. No complaints on my end about him in this transaction. No problems at all. Can't speak to any other experiences with him other than my own. YMMV

I don't know what that is, but it sounds bad.

22WRF - funny that you felt the need to white knight for a guy that several upstanding members here have said tried to [bleep] them out of their money. Seems like you just like a good argument.

Must be one of those "birds of a feather" things.

I would definitely not do business with 22WRF after seeing how he held up for the private pilot guy.

Just how f*cking stupid are you? Has anyone ever quantified that for you? On a scale of 1 to 10, with a 1 being just f*cking dumb and 10 being a blithering idiot, where do you rank?

As I recall, the seller stated he never agreed to any inspection period, did he not? A yes or no answer is all that's required.

I also recall that the deal was brokered via an internet message board, was it not? Again, a yes or no answer will suffice.

Since this transaction was brokered via the internet, logic -- that quality that you desperately need at this point -- would dictate that like the vast majority of transactions brokered via this internet message board, the terms are set via verbal or email agreement. Would that be correct? Yes or no?

And it appears that those terms included the sale of a rifle which was completed, does it not? Again, try and dig out a yes or no answer the best you can.

And it also appears that the buyer is now trying to change the terms of the sale upon completion of the deal, does it not? Yes or no, please.

GAME OVER, DUMBASS.

Bricktop, You are wasting your time dealing with 22wrf. This guy is a tool. He can't help it.

I know, I missed this earlier:

Does that mean we're all pulling the strings that control him? Because I understand that little bit of "brilliance" to say that he can't restrain or in any way control himself from making a response.

No one gives a F*CK if you have any "respect" for them. No one here holds any respect for you, [bleep].

Back to pp
I had a dealing with him several years ago on a 25-06 sendero that was to be NIB. Well it wasn't. The floorplate had all the bluing missing at the hinge. He did send me another floorplate and I had to return the messed up one. I said "Self never deal with this guy again" I didn't and I won't. I sent a PM to a fellow dealing with him (PP) over at AR to keep an eye on him.

Bricktop-I think you are candy-coating this thing with 22WRF, Why don't you tell him how you really feel. You usually use a lot more adjectives than you are tonight.

I found an add where Donnie Isaacs, aka Privatepilot aka Private pilot2 aka Privatepilot 001, had placed four years ago on Longrangehunting.com for a #1 Ruger in 7mm STW just like the one my buddy, Pety221, sold to him. I inquired about the rifle and then sent him another email stating that I was sorry that I had got so excited that he had the rifle I so desired that I failed to notice that the post was four years old. Greed took over and he replied, "Coincedently I have one I am considering selling. I will send you details if your interested". The trap was set.....

Donnie, "Yes Sir, I have two left. One is my shooter and one was a spare that I have decided to sell. I will send you pics tomorrow. The stock does have some dings in it, nothing major."

Me, "You have another Ruger #1 in 7mm STW for sale? Wow! Seriously? How much would your take for it? Yes, please send me the requested info along with pics please."

Donnie, "Attached are the pics of the rifle. I will take $875 shipped for the rifle."






[img:ctr]http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/longarch/Ruger17mmstw7.jpg[/img]

Me, "Cool! I will not be close to a computer till around 3:00 EST so please don't think I'm not interested and sell it to anyone else. These rifles are hard to find and I don't want to miss out on this opportunity. Thanks"

Donnie, "I would rate the condition about 90-92% +"

Me, "Thanks for the pics. Do you have any idea how many rounds you've put down the tube and is the buttstock the only noticeable scratch on the stock and scratch on the it including metal? "

Donnie, "That is the only noticeable scratch. There are several other indentions in the wood, but they are not through the finish and I can not get them to show in the pics. The metal is clean. I would say 75 rounds or less"

Me, "Thank you Donnie Isaacs aka Privatepilot aka Privatepilot2 on many gun-related forums. The information you have provided due to your greed is all my friend Don (Pete) Higgins needs for his legal records. You have clearly stated the condition of the rifle as being better than what my friend stated when he sold it to you. For an example you are stating that it has only 75 rounds down the tube which you know not to be true. You have also stated that the condition of this rifle is in 90 to 92% original but yet you are attempting to squander money from Don stating that the rifle is in much less of the original factory condition. If you continue to harass him about this rifle. I will certainly post your shady dealings on all the gun-related forums that I can join with links to your banning from Carolina Shooter's Forum and probably others. I'm sure Rick will remove your access from 24hr as well due to the following post and my PM request with all the forwarded email responses from our conversations as well as the threatening emails you sent Don (Pete). I also intend to contact the ATF and report your not-so-honest deals so they can review and possibly revoke your FFL status due to your ugly schemes. You sir, are a disgrace to all, having no morals or ethics but simply a greed that over-rides good judgement. I hope you anus is the diameter of a pin head following this email. Good day sir.

Jeff aka Longarch

It is amazing what you can locate on the Internet if you are smart enough to use it...........

Isaacs Guns LLC
(660) 731-5766
(816)-868-6672
401 S Main
Bogard, MO. 64622
[email protected]


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220926972720

http://www.gunpickers.com/categories.php?category=Firearms-Modern&parent_id=1872#b8bfc41c2fe8


I love this post...... It really shows your true colors.

http://www.carolinashootersforum.com/showthread.php?t=95626


Here's a few forums for me to start with..... All of which you are a member.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/member.php?u=37470
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/pro...amp;sid=37e36ae3f64f0c5dd5ea43e33739cd59
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/member.php/9052-privatepilot
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/members/privatepilot.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/members/privatepilot/
http://www.tallygunforum.com/forum/member.php?u=7137
http://www.tallahasseegunforum.com/forum/member.php?u=7137
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/members/privatepilot/
http://www.shootingworld.com/bbs/me...amp;sid=0d052d12e9b1f93130c6770f3426730c
http://www.carolinashootersforum.com/member.php?u=7229
http://www.hoosierhunting.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/profile/2257.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums
http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/index.php
http://www.shooterslegacy.net/forum
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/members/privatepilot/
http://smith-wessonforum.com/members/154755-privatepilot2.html
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/pro...amp;sid=65acd9856eb5d8a54ab79d37f628370c
http://www.nylonrifles.com/forums
http://www.gunauction.com/shop/gunshop/privatepilot2
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php
http://www.gunbroker.com/ (privatepilot 001)
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/users/14052/privatepilot"

I fully believe that Donnie intended to ship Don's (Pete's) 7mmSTW back to him resting in a different stock.

If anyone here wishes me to forward the actual email's to them, just PM me and I will.

Jeff

I see something very clear here. I understand fairness and both sides ect, ect...

But what are the chances that so many folks misrepresnted items for this guy to request money back so often?

Some scum feed off the good character of others because they can get away with it some of the time. That helps the bottomline $$$ on a deal. Period.

Most of us would bend over backwards to make things right when things go wrong. The scum understands this clearly and uses it to their advantage. What would make somebody such a total loser?

holy carp, Longarch! Well done!

I did a "best offer" for $1.07 for his $4.5 million dollar website on ebay. Hope I don't win.

22WRF, better get on the phone with Donnie Isaacs and the NAACP and make sure he's well defended here. Surely the overwhelming majority of upstanding 24hcf members can't be right!!

I sold Donnie a Sendero the other year. He was a complete ass and didn't seem to be real up to date on ffl regulations.

N that is the rifle I sent him.
Thanks jeff n Egbert
I rest my case
N to Donnie as I said in the last email shoot her she's yours .

Hey, Anybody see Donnie on here trying to explain his side.

First, I never ask for any money back. I ask to ship the rifle back. I stated that the rifle was not in the condition he stated it was, which it wasn't. When I buy a rifle and am told it is in a certain condition, that is what I expect. I do not misrepresent my items as my feedback on ebay will show. Second, I have two of these rifles. I can post pics if needed. The rifle I will be selling is exactly as stated, less then 75 rounds and 90-92% condition, 63 to be exact and I have the load data if anyone wants it. I ask to send it back and was told it would be sold to the highest bidder and that he didn't have the money to refund me because it was already spent on another gun. I have all emails if someone wants them also. I will not be in a pissing match here. I have had many great transcations, and yes a few bad ones, even scammed for $650 on a Kimber pistol in Florida.

Again if anyone is interested in Don's (Pete's) emails to Donnie or mine just PM me. The round count is incorrect and Don (Pete) stated that the conditin was 90-95% and Donnie was attempting to sell the same rifle with a 90-92% rating. Hmmmmm, that sounds like the condition was the same if you ask me so why Donnie are you not satisfied with your rifle. You accepted the emails from Don (Pete) but continued to press hime for more stuff to go with the sale. I guess you wanted more stuff for your other rifle. If the rifle is such a disappointment to you why are you attempting to sell it for $875? That's a good profit for you. By the way, I hope you piss straighter that you do business. You are simply below the standard we wish for on this or any other site.

Jeff

Did you or did you not have terms for an inspection period?

I was not satisfied with the rifle because it was not as described. Like I said, if someone tells me a rifle is 90-95% condition, I expect that. I understand that there is a little difference in people's opinions, but it shouldn't be that much. I ask to send the rifle back!!!

No, I guess I didn't get clear terms on inspection period, but I certainly will from here on. I assumed and I shouldn't have

You lying a$$hole. I beg interested parties to request a forward of the original transaction emails. If the rifle was stated to be 90-95% and you're unsatisfied then why are you attempting to jack the price up $225 and sell it as 90-92% original? Are you denying our emails as well? I'll post Don's (Pete's) picture that was sent to you this afternoon when I get home for all to see there was no surprises for you.

I am not denying anything, what are you talking about? Do you not get that I have 2 of these rifles? Can you not read that?

Funny that the chit you sell is as is, but you expect everyone else yo bend over backwards for you. Go [bleep] yourself!

I can post actual pics of Don's rifle with dings in the wood and scuffs on the metal that he never sent to me. I have no problem with that. His rifle is not as he described it.

Waputi, I don't expect anyone to bend over backwards for me at all. Like you and everyone else, I want to get what was described to me and what I paid for.

Seems you have a short memory. Remember that defective range finder you sold me and the hassle you gave me about returning it and the money it cost me? You're a lying sack o'chit in my book!

Bad track history dude. I doubt you will have very many folks on this site doing business with you. Seems like this happens alot from all the posts above. Would you like to explain them also. Here's your chance.

I can not only read that and from the other persons responses on here speaking of their dealings with you, I fully expected that you would have switched the stocks when you sent Don's (Pete's) rifle back. You only changed you mind when you thought that you could sell me the rifle for a $225 profit. Please go ahead and post pictures of "the other rifle". Especially the stock.

Jeff

part of the problem here, especially with guys like Bricktop and other of his cohorts, is, as I previously stated, the use of fallacies of irrelevant evidence and material fallacies of reasoning.

The most common being Argumentum ad Hominem, which of course is an appeal to ridicule. It is very easily seen in any discussion, and especially on internet boards.

The fallacy is that of shifting a discussion about an issue from the point being discussed to the personality of the opponent of the discussion. Instead of dealing with an opponent's thesis on the merits (in this case my thesis on the merits was to wait for both sides to speak and to hear all of the evidence before making on decision on this particular case) the fallacious arguments start attacking my reputation and moral character, refer to my low intelligence, possible inferior social position, lack of education, and other similar personal shortcomings. All of these things of course have nothing whatsoever to do with the original thesis on the merits.

Another popular one here on 24 Hour, and one that is going on here in this discussion is Argumentum ad Populum, which is appeal to the masses. If one goes back and reads many of the long arguments on this board, one can see that this method of argument is very popular here becasue guys seem to post in bunches or packs or whatever you would like to call them.

And arguments which depart from the question under discussion by making an appeal to the feelings and prejudices of the miltitudes are known as populum fallacies. These arguments often take the affirmative form of appeal to others to respect the persons superiority to argue for the rest of the group.

All of this is fine. It doesn't bother me because I know what it is, and know that it comes from people who can't make a reasonable argument without involving personality. In many cases, such as with Bricktop, it proves that they know how to swear but sometimes not much else.

Once again, from the very begining, I did not take any sides in this case. Rather, I suggested that before making a determination on this particular set of facts, it would be wise to hear from both parties. That was it. And I continued in the discussion becasue I am aware of how important that is. Nobody here would like to be judged on a specific issue based on whether they were less than sufficient on a separate issue, for if that were the case, then NONE OF US would ever be judged as sufficient again.

I don't know what the answer to the original question in this case is. I see now that both sides are having their say so, and that is good. But one thing I do know for sure is that my character and my education and all of those other things have nothing to do with the original question. Hopefully, the balance of this discussion will center on the true evidence of the matter, and that everyone will make up their mind based stricly upon that instead of personalities or appeals for attack on personalities.

P.S. Am I incorrect in that it is assumed that all transactions on this board have a 3 day inspection period?

Waputi, it wasn't defective at all. You stated it smelled like smoke, which I don't smoke never have. Look at the 4th or 5th feedback down on my ebay, it worked fine for that gentleman.

Switched the stocks, lmao unbelievable.

Here goes f*ck face, the dickhead who can't control himself. If anyone replies, an involuntary response is emitted from him.

Bricktop

Thanks for continuing to show that you know how to use foul language. I am sure there are many here who appreciate it.

And thank you for immediately proving that you are using Argumentem Ad Hominem.

I second this!

Privatepilot douchebag, GO [bleep] YOURSELF!

Then what the f*ck are you talking about with this "take him to court" bullshit? He satisfied the basic terms of the transaction, did he not? Did you think you were going to hire expert witnesses and have an O.J. style trial for a sub-$1K gun transaction?

Here he goes, I'm pulling the string again. He's gonna reply; he can't help it.

No the pictures I posted are of Don's stock that you sent. I don not deny that. He also sent you a picture of that same smudge/scratch with your and his original agreement. I said that you more than likely WAS going to swap the stocks. Go ahead and post picture of you other rifle's stock. Let us see. We can draw our own conclusion to the matter. By the way you are still not asnswering my questions.

Jeff

That POS wouldn't range houses beyond a few hundred yards, and smelled like an ashtray is what I told you and all you wanted to do was argue about it. Like I said, the chit you sell is sold as is, but you expect everyone else to bend over backwards for you. Also wanted to add, EBay feedback doesn't mean chit anymore because they've done away with the ability to leave negative feedback, so their ratings aren't accurate.

Not my first rodeo, but definitely my last dealing with you.

Nope not at all. I assumed three day inspection was part of the transaction and when he told me he already spent the money it pissed me off, that is bs. Like I said, I assumed the three day inspection applied here, that is my fault. I should have specifically asked about the 3-day inspection. Noted!

Bricktop

another appeal to the Masses

I think it is you who replies because you cannot help it. You want everyone to think how "cute" you are and how smart you are, so you use language and arguments that you think will make you sound cute and smart. Its a very common thing. Used alot, of course, by politicians and people who claim to be leaders.

Do you think it might be possible for you to enter one discussion without commenting once on the personalities of the other people in the discussion, and stay strictly on the merits of the discussion?

Waputi, I don't smoke. I don't understand that at all, stated that to you right from the beginning. I will still argue that

I agree totally. I do believe Donnie follows throught with his sales accuratly. It's his buying method that I question. He almost always asks for above and beyond the original agreement and when he doesn't get it, he comes back with threats of lawsuits. What a wiener.

Jeff

I have sold a lot of items here on 24 and have always assumed a 3 days inspection as well.

I keep assuming a supermodel is going put me up as a kept man, but it ain't happened yet and I ain't getting any younger. I think I'll sue, too.

I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that approaching your seller with an accusatory tone didn't help much either, did it?

There is no "understood" inspection time required with a sale. Only if stated in the original agreement. I agree most of us on here are willing to give an inspection period if the buying party agree to pay shipping. I'm sure all my brothers and sisters here would say the same. There was no inspection period with this purchhase.

Donnie,

Answer my question please.

Jeff

I obviously didn't start out like that. I was told if the rifle was sent back it would be sold to the highest bidder and my money not refunded.

I should ask the same of you.

I "assumed" a 3-day inspection period on that POS rangefinder and was told not to send it back, but did anyway.

Well, if there were no inspection period, then the only questions left are whether there was a verbal promise that the gun was in a certain condition, and then whether it was not in that condition. As I stated in the begining, condition is a very subjective thing, which is why there should have been an inspection period. None of this would have come about, including all of the swearing, arguing, and hard feelings.

There is always an assumed inspection period. I am sure everyone who buys something here assumes that when it arrives they have an inspection period. I have assumed and will not anymore.

Privatepilot

Was there a specific promise that the gun was in a certain condition? And if so, why do you say specifically that it was not in the condition you thought you were told it was in?

I will submit all emails to whomever needs them with the original pics of the rifle.
I never gave an inspection period of any sort.
U take the pics he sent longarch n the pics I sent him tell me its not the same rifle n I will glady offer my name here up for banning.
after u have read the original emails .

Isn't the very definition of assume counter to your argument?

assume: 1.To authenticate by means of belief; to surmise; to suppose to be true, especially without proof.

Gun was described in a certain condition and yes I do not think it is in that condition, so I ask to send it back.

I agree. I think the assumption argument fails here. I think that an inspection period means that a person can look the item over for a few days and then send it back for little or no reason. From the postings of the seller here it appears that was not offered, and if it were not offered then it could not be accepted.

But there still remains the issue of condition. Yes, photos were sent. The question remains, did those photos adequately show the condition that the item was described as. if they did, then the matter is over. If not, then the buyer has a valid claim.

That was quoted to you by the FFL dealer following your continued raging accusations of a civil court law suit. The decision was reversed when we did a little research on you other dealings. I say bring your a$$ to Chattanooga and sue. I would so enjoy Don reaping the benefits of the counter-suit.

Again, do you deny any of the posting of our email conversation?

Jeff

I said I assumed. Won't happen again

Seems what's good for the goose, is not good for the gander. He wants an "inspection period", but doesn't grant the same. [bleep] him and 22WRF!

I found it best to never aSSume anything. I always am very intentional with my descriptions and questions. Just as I was intentionsl with my questions to you in our email conversation. You will not find one individual that I have done wrong on this or any other site. Nor have I been done wrong because I read up on an individual before I seal the deal. Heck, I've even PM'd other about an individual with a low post count just to verify his/her credentials.

Donnie, answer my questions.

Jeff

I am requesting pictures of both, I am interested in seeing them, both, side by side in the same picture(s) to avoid a switcheroo.


I suggest you do so, or be banned. Show your cards.... since you offered

I have already answered your questions

What I take away from this thread is who I want on my ignore list. There's reasonable discussion and then there's garbage...

And I agree with you on best not to assume. That was my mistake and I stated that already

No there isn't.

No you haven't. Do you agree that what I originally posted including the picks is work-for-word from our email conversation?

Yes, let's see the side-by-side pictures. I also have the original pictures of Don's rifle I can post.

Jeff

Donnie, oh Donnie, where for art thou Donnie? Hmmmm. Must have bled to death after trapping himself and having to knawl his foot off to escape.....

First off...

Donnie.... Please answer my question.

Secondly...

Per your last email to me this morning...

Donnie, "You better do some more research then because the rifle Don Higgins sold me is not the rifle you seen pictures of. I will send you pics of both of my stw rifles today. Its amazing how you think you were helping your friend out and actually you just hurt him. Don threatened to sell the rifle to the highest bidder if I shipped it back, so I decided to keep it as my shooter and sell my other. I will send pics of both shortly, and will also forward all of the info to the admin at 24hr. Higgins is a piece of [bleep], who doesn't describe his guns correctly. My rifle is exactly as described, even have the load it shoots if you need to know that."

Here's Don's gun. Please try to explain why the pictures that how I posted earlier supposedly are pics of your gun. Here it is in the FFL shop where it was shipped from.







The rifle had and still has not been cleaned as it was before Don shipped it. I personally inspected the rifle and requested he clean it before he shipped it to you. I'm now glad that he didn't. It has the same butt scuff that you claim your rifle has. Man, you just can't come clean can you.

Donnie I will say this to u I do not own or have I ever owned two number 1n rivers of the same caliber matter if fact that was the only one I have ever owned n there's more than one person that can relay that fact I am personally a remmy man n always have been as such.
Secondly u sir need to b careful as to who u try running b.s over cause if the person that reading it can read better than u can write it u usually end up stepping in it yourself.
Because of the email u sent stating the fact that my ffl guy had spoke to u that very day happened to b sitting across the counter at the time u sent the email.
The rifle I sent u was n is the very same rifle u were trying to pass to jeff as your rd own personal shooter.
The scuff mark matches n two if u will zoom the pic of the right side of the rifle at the action there is a minor scratch across the face of that part.
Its not hidden n any of the pics.

BT, might be your lucky day, Seal's previous squeeze seems to have an opening.

We already know her choice in men................

She's used and I can't sing.

I tried having a dealing with Donnie, it was horrible. He is a typical salesmen. His stuff is worth gold and mine was not worth pennies. Little word of advise.
A good salesmen should always tell the truth,that way he doesn't need to remember what he said.

i told u i had another rifle on the way that the money was needed for .
i never gave u an inspection period of any sort in any email!
u had been looking for something for nothing since the begining of that transaction " wanting brass dies n what not "
n told u that i wasnt giving anything up because the rifle i had ordered was in the same exact caliber .

I keep seeing Private pilot logged on, but no pictures like he promised to post.


Donnie, put the pictures up like you said you would if someone asked, 2 of us have asked the magic words. Can't be that hard to lay both guns side by side and snap pictures for all to see.

ALSO BEWARE OF "GUNSWIZARD" ...... another guy just like PrivatePilot


All of this sounds exactly like what I came across with another seller on here: who goes by the name "gunswizard"

He called a guy out on here, using his real name and address.... and the guy is not even a member on here, nor did the deal occur on here. He just posted in multiple forums trying to force the guy to give him money. On the claim that..... wait for it..... " the bolt was packed loose and damaged the stock" just like the others said, and also that the stock had been shortened and he could not tell from the photos provided before the sale.

See this post:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ging_Michael_Frane_Torrance_#Post5407244

I ended up calling the guy and informing him. He stated that the sale did not occur on this forum. That he had sent the buyer "gunswizard" a full account of the rifle and it's condition, that he did NOT ship the rifle with the bolt loose, that the bolt was in the receiver when shipped, and that "gunswizard" never sent him a photo of the damage, but demanded some money be returned to him. Further that "gunswizard" did not want to return the rifle to the seller.

Sounds just like he could be brothers with privatepilot to me.

Serial #'s - 133-83175 & 133-83742, you can verify the rifles are both ruger stainless/laminated 7mm stws

I am done with this transaction. As pety221 stated above he did not specify a inspection period, and I can not refute that. Once again I assumed a 3 day inspection and I was obviously wrong and when told the money was spent and if I returned the rifle it would be sold to the highest bidder I got pissed off and this got way out of hand. It is what it is. I asked for nothing other then to return the rifle the day it was received, to which the above reply was sent!

I ask if you had any brass to include in the deal, never stated anything about dies. I think a lot of people ask about brass when dealing with guns, I know I have been ask numerous times.

I have had many great transactions and I will have many more. I have learned my lesson and will make sure to clarify an inspection period going forward, and I will certainly not buy anything that doesn't have one. That should have been a red flag for me right there. Once again I assumed all transactions did and I should not have. Lesson learned!

I don't remember anyone asking for serial #'s. If memory serves me correctly you were asked for side-by-side pictures. I agree that you have made one correct statement, "I have had many great transactions and I will have many more." Most, if not all, of these are sells not purchases on your behalf. Several on here have admitted to supplying you with compensation of some sort following a sale to you. You are a scammer and apparently proud of it. A scammer that can't produce any evidence of a any good on your behalf. Be prepared to see all the emails between you ad Don show up here. I want the world to know just how low of a snake you are.

By the way you never answered my question, "Did the posted email of our conversation state word-for-word the entire conversation?"

Jeff

I ASK TO SEND THE RIFLE BACK, NOTHING MORE!!!! I AM DONE WITH THIS!

PP you might as well quit pizzing in the fan , you got it all over yourself , yer soaked.


Mike

Gentlemen you have your answer. He can't produce the pictures. I can come up with a serial number for a Ruger #1 laminated stock in 7mm STW that I don't own too if you like.

BTW..... WE are not done with you. I don't want another individual to ever be scammed by you again. Stay tuned for Don's word-for-word (censored) email conversation with the scammer better know as Donnie Isaacs.

Jeff

I have both rifles just as stated and have learned my lesson with the inspection period.

Good deal. Now post close pics of your rifles stock. especially any damaged areas/scuffs/scratches.

Jeff

Word-for-word (Censored) conversation between Don and Donnie

Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Don Higgins, "Here is a couple I can take more later.
Shoots really good n surprisingly nuff very lil kick to b what she is "





On Dec 28, 2011 4:30 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "How bad are the dings in it? Make it $625 and you have a deal"

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Don Higgins, "Dings aren't very noticeable at all.
But ill have to stand on 650.00 "

On Dec 28, 2011 4:37 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Do you have any brass you would throw in?"

On Dec 28, 2011 4:41 PM, Don Higgins, "No sir Im not reloading at this point need to tho"

On Dec 28, 2011 4:42 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Any ammo?"

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Don Higgins, "Have a box of nosler custom but have a new rifle coming in this caliber next week "

On Dec 28, 2011 4:54 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Dam* lol. What kind of rifle did you get it in? I will take it for $650 if you will send me a couple pics of the dings"

On Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM, Don Higgins, "Model 700 black on black
K gimmie a couple of hours to get home. Standing watching a clear cut at the moment lol
My addy
Don Higgins
*****************
*****************
Prefer a usps money order
Rifle is yours"

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Don Higgins, "Fax a copy of ffl castles outdoors at 423-658-0008"


On Dec 28, 2011 6:07 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "It is my Dad, attached is a copy" PIC REMOVED FOR LEGAL REASONS

On Dec 28, 2011 6:27 PM, Don Higgins, "He wont accept it from me in a email needs to b faxed to him sorry. Only guy I deal with"

On Dec 28, 2011 6:29 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Ok I will fax too"

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Don Higgins[/b, "That is of the smudge mark."

[b]On Dec 29, 2011 2:50 AM, Donnie Isaacs, "Money will go out tomorrow"

On Dec 29, 2011 5:25 AM, Don Higgins, "K thanks"

On Jan 3, 2012 8:15 PM, Don Higgins, "Received money order today will try to have it sent out tomorrow evening if at all possible thanks again "

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Don Higgins, "Could u send me a number to send the ffl dealer im using too? "

On Jan 3, 2012 9:27 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "A phone #? 660-731-5766 is home/fax"

On Jan 3, 2012 9:39 PM, Don Higgins,"K ill have him send it in the morning "

On Jan 4, 2012 4:40 PM, Don Higgins,"Rifle is in transit.
Via usps
Delivery confirmation number is
03103490000084126997
Insured for 650.00
Thanks again "

On Jan 10, 2012, at 1:15 PM, Don Higgins, "Has the rifle made it to u yet? "

On Jan 19, 2012 1:47 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Don, rifle made it yesterday. I am not very please with the condition. The metal has marks and the stock has numerous marks that are very noticeable. You stated they weren't. Please advise"

On Jan 19, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Don Higgins, "I didn't n still don't believe they where that noticeable. I sent the pics n u accepted them."

On Jan 19, 2012 2:07 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "You didn't send pics of everything on the rifle, one spot which i was fine with, but there are numerous others. If thats all you have i will probably put it back in the mail to your FFL"

On Jan 19, 2012 2:19 PM, Don Higgins, "I do not have the money to pay u it was spent on the rifle that was on the way."

On Jan 19, 2012 2:37 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "I am not sure what to tell you Sir. I am not happy with it and will not keep it for what I paid"

On Jan 19, 2012 7:06 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Unless something else is offered and accepted, the rifle will be back in the mail to your FFL probably tomorrow."

On Jan 19, 2012 7:35 PM, Don Higgins, "Rifle will b returned to sender soon as its received.
The ffl dealer has been notified of that fact. "

On Jan 19, 2012 8:02 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "And then we will go to court. Your choice"

On Jan 19, 2012 8:09 PM, Don Higgins, "I gave u a accurat description of the rifle n u agreed to it.
I have every email n pic of that was sent back n forth.
There is no way anyone would take a legal side against it.
U been hunting summin for nothing since the beginning of this n I will not offer or accept anything else "

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "No, you didn't give me an accurate description of the rifle. You sent pics of one place that was scratched, and I was fine with that. However, the rifle has numerous scratches throughout it and several places on the metal. And yes, they will take action, trust me. You better do your research. I have been hunting for [bleep]. You sent me a rifle that is absolutely not as described. I will have tracking info for you as soon as it ships. And I will personally be speaking with the dealer, he certainly will not jeopardize his FFL over something like this. Trust me, I have all emails describing its condition also, you need me to send them to you?"

On Jan 20, 2012 3:49 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Spoke with your dealer. He will not jeopardize his license. I have also notified my ATF agent and she will more then likely be contacting you and him. The rifle will be back in the mail to him Monday morning. Let me know when it arrives."

On Jan 20, 2012 5:02 PM, Don Higgins, "Hmmm considering the fact I have known him since we were lil kids n the fact that I hang out there quite often n was sitting there when u sent that email. I have only to say to u rifle was sold as is u accepted it take it n shoot her!
Cause personally I see u as a damn liar !
Good day to u .
N enjoy your rifle"

On Jan 20, 2012 5:30 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "Well your full of sh*t let me tell you that and you will see when it shows up next week. I have no problem going to small claims court if needed. We will see how this works out for ya. I will email tracking,Monday. See you in court"

On Jan 20, 2012 5:35 PM, Don Higgins, "Go f**k yourself n have a nice day lmao.
N btw if rifle will show up in the mail it will b logged n sold to highest bidder."

On Jan 20, 2012 6:12 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "I don't care who you sell it to. I will be getting my money back, trust me. Check the laws. I will have tracking info for you and your dealer Monday. My ATF agent will be in contact also. You made a big mistake. And what kind of POS doesn't describe their guns accurate. You wont last long. See you in court!"

Date: Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Don Higgins, "K"

Thanks for the info. I too will have him on ignore. Good to weed out bad apples before someone else gets scammed.

Appreciate the way you guys take care of garbage here. Thumbs up from a newbie

Where are the panned out pictures, side by side? Where are pictures of the "undescribed damage"?

I think with the vast amount of negative info around, this is pretty clear cut.

I won't be making any dealings with privatepilot.

Read the whole thread; what a train wreck!

Seems that I'm hitting the Ignore button more and more lately (a certain TN crowd....), and now have found two more.

I'm not that hard up to sell or buy anything to have to deal with these two, and their "assumptions"...

"On Jan 20, 2012 6:12 PM, Donnie Isaacs, "I don't care who you sell it to. I will be getting my money back, trust me. Check the laws. I will have tracking info for you and your dealer Monday. My ATF agent will be in contact also. You made a big mistake. And what kind of POS doesn't describe their guns accurate. You wont last long. See you in court!"

I guess we'll see if he really is a man of his word. I for one highly dought it.

A very valuable lesson learned.

When you buy something, or sell something, over the internet, realize that it is not the same as an in person transaction.
1. if you are the seller, insist that if the item is going to be returned it comes back in the same condition as it went out (and make sure you can document the condition), and also make sure that the buyer will pay for the return.
2. If you are the buyer, make sure that there is an inspection period, and make sure you are prepared to pay for the return shipping, if necessary.

No gun is worth the bad blood that this transaction caused.

Blame yourself for most of that, dickhead.

you still don't get it do you? this doesn't have a thing to do with anything you said. it's a case of a scammer, with a history of scamming.

maybe you should sell him a rifle, and let's see if your "bolt was loose in the package" too...

It has everything to do with what I said because if the seller and the buyer would have agreed on an inspection period this would never have happened.

I am not saying the seller did anything wrong. But I don't believe the buyer did a whole lot wrong either in the sense that he wanted to return something that wasn't to his liking. Selling over the internet is, at best, artificial, and requires an inspection period. If most people who post here ordered something from say Cabela's or Gander Mountain and received it and didn't like it they would scream bloody murder if they were not allowed to return it. I've read many stories on here from people who have actually admitted to abusing equipment and then returning it. If you go to a Cabela's store you can go into their bargain caves and see lots of merchandise that has been used heavily and then was later returned.

I think that the evidence shows that the buyer should have acted differently. He shouldn't have assumed that he had a right to return the item, and he shouldn't have threatened legal action. It was his fault that he didn't insist on an inspection period before the sale took place if he wanted to be able to return the gun at his own expense.

But I don't look at this as scamming. Rather, I look at it as poor communication between two parties to a sale. If the seller doesn't want to partake in a sale where there is an inspection period then that should be abundantly clear so that the buyer can make a decision whether to proceed based on that information.
It should all be in writing.

Very simple. Either I can return the gun at my own expense if I don't like it, or I can't return the gun at my own expense if I don't like it.

Another thing that this thread shows is very poor manners. If people insist on arguing by the use of Ad Hominem arguments and appeals for ridicule, nothing will ever be decided in a rational manner. It doesn't do any good toward arriving at a reasonable conclusion when people call other people names in order to look cute for their friends.

Moreover, what has transpired in the past is not evidence of what has transpired now. To think that is to have a fallacy of irrelevant evidence. To prove point A, which is at issue, the speaker instead tries to prove unrelated point B, or instead of trying to disprove point C, he disproves point B. Oftentimes people think that they have proven their own point by disproving the points made by their opposition. For example, in a murder trial, a prosecutor might be guilty of the fallacy of irrelevant evidence if instead of proving the accused guilty of murder he instead proves him guilty of other unrelated crimes.

I told you guys early on that 22wrf will just go on and on and on. He just can't help himself.

I believe you're looking through a glass darkly. Can you honestly see nothing wrong with "the buyer's" comments, threats, non-replies to questions here, non-posting of pics for verification, and past dealings with several here on 24hr? 22WRF if I ever commit a crime worthy of punishment, I definitely want you and your closest friends on the jury. You speak as a forked-tongue politician. Running around in circles never saying anything out one side of your mouth. The only thing I can agree with is I too wish "the seller" would have replied with more words but have you ever used your phone your cell phone primarily for email responses. I'm sure you to would be brief especially when you expect no problems with the deal you're working on.

Jeff

Jeff

I am not a judge, that is for sure. But I do know a lot about the human condition and human frailty. I think the buyer here had remorse when he received the gun. I think he felt he paid too much for it because he probably wanted to resell it needed to get it for less than he did in order to make his sale.

But I think every single person who posted on this thread has done the very same thing in their life, not just once, but on many occasions. I think everybody has made buying decisions that they later felt regret for. And I think that everyone has gotten into arguments about wanting to return something that they regretted purchasing.

But I don't think the intent was to scam. I think the intent was to rescind a bad decision. And hopefully the buyer will from now on structure his deals more carefully, and hopefully everyone who has read this thread will structure their deal with a clause that allows for an inspection period.

But I did not come to these conclusions until after I saw what was offered by both parties, and I did not come to these conclusions based on what happened with other transactions by either party.

I think his past history proves his intentions. Did you not notice that he attempted to sell me my friend's rifle stating that it was his other rifle. I fully believe he intended to swap parts until he was please with the rifle he would keep and send the my friend's rifle back looking a little differen't than before it was shipped. Please go back and not only read my posts but read the others that he scammed into either sending him compensation or a replacement of some sort. He, being a reseller, came out way on top in each of those deals. I believe you are good with writing words sir but not at reading them.

Jeff

Cold bore that is your right n I decision to block me n id nt care either way.

Jeff

I read the words, and I would suggest that we both have a different perception of what they mean (which is far different from what many folks do here when they call somebody a name becasue the other person doesn't agree with them).

For reasons I don't know, Guns seem to bring about human emotions and human behavior that are not present in other areas of life.

People will buy a $40,000 pickup and beat it up hunting in the backcountry, but they won't take a nice gun out hunting for fear of scratching it up.

People will accept many other things with exchanged parts, but won't accept guns with exchanged parts.

People will run an ad for guns for weeks and weeks and weeks at the same price so as to not take a dollar less than they paid for it, but will sell their cars for thousands less than they are worth in order to get a different car.

And yes, I am guilty of all of these things myself.

I think all people seem to want to be less and less responsible for their own actions. To rely on somebody else to fix it.
Its becoming part of the human condition.

Here they buyer made a mistake. Not on purpose. And he wanted to the seller to fix it for him. But he should have made that clear from the start with an agreement for an inspection period.

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable. Well, I feel justified with my decision. I believe that evidence speaks for itself or rather shouts in this case. I suggest sir that you sell Privatepilot a rifle in the future using another name other than 22WRF and see how he attempts to deal with you.

To all that have been wronged by Donnie Isaacs aka Privatepilot, I request that you send Rick a PM stating what happened and request him to be banned from this site. My thanks to all that chimed in with sound mind and a clean conscious.

Jeff

Jeff

If I have occasions to either buy something from Privatepilot, or sell something to him, I will judge my transaction with him based on my contract with him, not on anyone elses transaction with him.

I learned two things and affirmed one.

I learned 22WRF assumes a three day inspection, so I'm not selling anything to him because I have no idea WTF he got that idea.

And I learned privatepilot will never be dealt with by me.

And I affirmed Bricktop is one of the funniest [bleep] on here.


Travis

Deflave

I have learned something too. I no longer assume a 3 day inspection. Now, I will both offer one and require one.

And I learned that a lot of people like to show off by using the "[bleep]" word on the internet.

What the [bleep] does that mean?


Travis

It means you seek acceptance from others that use the same words. It means you want to look cute. It means you want to sway people to your opinion by using words instead of using logical argument.

not to mention she doesn't date GED holders

So I guess you're out of the running.

Well [bleep], I had no idea.

My logical argument tells me that anybody that assumes they have some sort of three day grace period without a seller, is not very logical.

My logical argument tells me privatepilot contains all the drama of three ex-wives and a Jerry Spring episode.

Better?

Travis

PS-I don't need to type to look cute. It comes naturally.

The bigger picture is this means your ass needs to stick to more appropriate tasks for a "man" of your "talents." Like organizing your sock drawer. Or folding your underwear.

Bernie Madoff wants to know if you have any money to invest!

Bricktop, Deflave, and Kansasbound

Thank you very much for providing me with some humor and good fun on this gray winter day.

Anybody from Pinedale, WY?

That is exactly what I was wondering.

LR.........RU there?

What's up with all this "human condition" , "seeking acceptance" , "human emotions" stuff ? Is Oprah around here somewhere ?



Mike

He's a bit of a bitch.

Nope, not you. The other "TN crew", and the two jokers here.

Common guys, keep it going. I've learned one this from these (10) pages. That is, how to put someone on ignore!!! And it ain't BT!

The most interesting man in the world... on opinions.

Well I'm not as educated (I'm sure my wife would agree) as 22WRF but I'm Think'n he just called Bricktop a homo!

22WRF isn't as educated as 22WRF thinks he is, hence his ass being schooled in this thread and being booted from AR.

I don't need a lot of education to discuss issues with guys whose main form of discussion is Ad Hominem. Those sort of folks do well in an internet environment where they don't have to come face to face, and where most of the educated people don't bother to read what they say. They would do poorly using their form of communication in formal settings where they would in fact be laughed out of the room.

If schooling is showing everyone how cute you are, and that you know how to swear, then I supposed I am being schooled.

But many very intelligent people, most far more intelligent than I, have been kicked off of AR. Not because if their intelligence, but rather because of the moderator's lack of intelligence. And many of those same people post here on 24HOUR.

There he goes!!!! I pulled the string and now our toy dickhead responds!

THAT'S RIGHT, I MADE IT HAPPEN!!!!! 22WRF CAN'T CONTROL HIMSELF, IF SOMEONE POSTS, HE HAS TO RESPOND. BY TRANSITIVE PROPERTIES, I AM NOW LORD AND MASTER OVER 22WRF. I WILL CONTINUE TO FORCE HIS DUMB, F*CKING ASS TO KEEP RESPONDING. HE CANNOT CONTROL IT, I AM PULLING THE STRINGS, I AM MAKING IT HAPPEN!!!

There he goes!!!! I pulled the string and now our toy dickhead responds!

THAT'S RIGHT, I MADE IT HAPPEN!!!!! BRICKTOP CAN'T CONTROL HIMSELF, IF SOMEONE POSTS, HE HAS TO RESPOND. BY TRANSITIVE PROPERTIES, I AM NOW LORD AND MASTER OVER BRICKTOP. I WILL CONTINUE TO FORCE HIS DUMB, F*CKING ASS TO KEEP RESPONDING. HE CANNOT CONTROL IT, I AM PULLING THE STRINGS, I AM MAKING IT HAPPEN!!!
_________________________

No, I don't have to respond, I choose to do so. Because you've distinguished yourself as such a likeable, clear-headed, and upstanding little "man." A neat little person who posts brilliant and well-thought out things like this:
And I don't need the internet to tell a f*cking moron that he's, well, a f*cking moron. Because it's hard to take exception to the obvious.

No, you don't choose to respond. You cannot help but respond because of your childish need to show others how cute you are, because of your need to show ohers that you have a vocabulary of foul language, and because of your need to seek acceptance from others.

I am happy to keep discussing these problems you have for as long as you want.

No, I'm making a choice, though you keep stating you will continue to respond as long as anyone responds to you. I'm checking your level of dedication. I'm headed to the range shortly to chrono some loads, but I'm sure you'll have plenty of hot air waiting for me.

Hell, I might even post on AR a little later. Care to join me? Oh, that's right, YOUR ASS GOT BOOTED. Ain't that a bitch?

Here you go guys....a thread just for you.

Bricktop $ 22WRF

Bricktop

No, your not making a choice. You can't help it. You have a strong need to show off, to brag, to have others join you. And you cleaverly do so by turning discussions away from the real issue by attacking personalities. Its a very classic behavior, and you know it works well on the internet. "hey everybody, look at me, I'm Bricktop. I know how to say [bleep] on the internet, and I know how to win arguments by calling the other guy an [bleep]."

Have fun over on AR. That place deserves guys like you.

Look 22WRF. An enticing thread just for you and Bricktop.

Yep, Always someone else's fault!! What does your fancy edumacation say this is?

"Yep, Always someone else's fault!! What does your fancy edumacation say this is?"

This is the quote that I was given as to why I was kicked off AR.

"You are too good for this forum"

Baically, what that means, is that I was kicked off AR for the very same reason that I will probably get kicked off here, which is arguing for justice in a proper manner, thereby causing distress to many of the other members who chose instead to use foul language, look cute, and make ad hominem arguments.

"Basically" it's called SARCASM -- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm -- and then, as now, it went WAYYYYY the f*ck over your head.

Another false analagy.

Because the dictionary gives a definition, and you attribute that definition to this case, doesn't make it true.

Please Brickhead, keep on showing us your challenged logic, and thank you again for continuing to show us that you know how to say the word f*ck. I am sure that many members with younger kids who read here appreciate it.

I told you guys early in this posting that 22wrf will just keep going on and on and on and on!!!!! He just can't help himself..

Kevin always has to have the last word...

seems to me that you have posted this very same thing about 4 or 5 times, as though you have to go on and on and on because you can't help yourself.

In case you hadn't noticed, I am not the only one still posting on this thread. Why not address those folks as well?

Donnie Isaacs

http://www.facebook.com/people/Donnie-Isaacs/1167318586


Here ya go 22WRF. Friend him on Facebook.

I think they're in a relationship. Together.

thats good to know

the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior

I will never buy nor sell anything from/to Donnie Isaacs.....NEVER!

22WRF is working on having the same status with me for defending him. That's not the way human beings treat other human beings....no matter who they are or where they're from.

Longarch on a recent move:

Are you stooping to arguing Ad Hoc Ridiculum, trying to play on his human fraility?

The original inquiry seems to have been taken care of, so I don't think we are arguing anymore. Now its just entertainment.

I have never heard of Ad Hoc Ridiculum. Its called Argumentem Ad Hominem or in English, Appeal to Personal Ridicule.

It was entertainment from about your third post on.

Ad Hoc Ridiculum or in plain english, to make fun of someone when they have their head buried so deep in a book that they don't have enough common sense to realize it.

12344mag

My guess is 22WRF will get thrown off this site just as he did over on accurate reloading. He just can't help himself.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sand%20in%20your%20vagina

Obviously there's a couple on here with Sand in their "Pu**y"


"Complaning about things that do not matter. letting the littlest things bother you."


"A condition causing bad moods, usually experienced by females but also can affect some males. Can only be fixed by a douche!
You're in a bad mood today, have you got sand in your vagina?"

Yep. That's me in the Jeep. I'm not surprised you didn't wave back at me. That cross-member on the swing set must have gotten in your vision.

No, Longarch, that would be you in the Ford.

If you would go back and read carefully what I've said here, I was not advocating for either party. Apparently, from your posts, you think I was advocating for the buyer's position.

From the very begining, I was advocating for fairness based on common principles.

To review:

1. Both sides should tell their story fully before people make up their mind.
2. Both sides should Show their evidence of what happened.
3. What happens on other transactions doesn't prove what happend on this transaction.

Simple as that.

I agree with this totally.....
Take my name out of this thread totally and just look at the evidence.

* Don (Pety221) has evidence presented on his behalf.

* Donnie (Privatepilot) has presented no evidence or will he answer question concerning the evidence presented against him.

* Several other credible members have reported their transaction stating being wronged by Donnie.

*** The gavel has struck ***
*** CASE CLOSED ***

"*** The gavel has struck ***
*** CASE CLOSED ***"

Thank you for that ruling Judge Longarch!

This is the classifieds, Where people sell things,
Take your childish little conversations to the other 57 forums that are available.

Thank you Kenneth. I agree with you.

The only reason for my friend posting this in the classifieds to begin with was simply to inform those that use the classifieds to sell items of Privatepilot's immoral ways. To comply with your statement and to show my support of it, this is my last post to this topic. I realize their is no way to convince 22WRF and no way his last post is his L...A...S...T post on this thread.

Watch and see that I am a man of my word. NO MORE POSTS.

Jeff

Oh, prepare yourself for a bunch of F this F that. Brickhead, where are you?

If you don't want to participate, Don't!

Clueless, you don't "participate" in the classifieds,

You sell things, clear? You have like 30 posts in this thread, and you have nothing for sale.

Just how insecure are you? (Don't answer that on here).

He will......

It think it would be you who is insecure and clueless. Probably because when you read the entire thread you only took away from it what you wanted to, and nothing else.

1. The original poster didn't have anything to sell either! He was the one that was insecure and was seeking advice.
2. Those that wanted to participate did so. Those that didn't want to particiapte didn't.
3. So again, if you don't want to participate, Don't.

Why is this thread still alive?

Right on cue!

Too funny!

Alright, I know this is an old thread and I don't want to drag this out again, but I was looking at guns online, and noticed a gun that is posted in multiple locations with identical listings. One is listed from Donnie Isaacs on Guns International:

Guns International Listing

and one is listed under a different name on Gun Broker:

Gun Broker Listing

Is this the same guy that everyone had trouble dealing with, but he just got a new user name, email on Gun Broker? I am just checking because I am trying to do my due diligence, as the user selling on Gun Broker has no rating yet. Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Brad

Same state, same zip, both listings. Would appear so.

is he from mo.?

yep

yes he is and a he is a total A$$ !

Save yourself the headaches and deal with someone else. Donnie has a bad track record here and I am sure he has had many more issues with others due to the way he does business.

This thread is a year and a half old. I have had many great transactions buying and selling since and have had 0 problems. Give it a rest!

GFY privatepilot

Donnie Douchebag Isaacs is and always will be a [bleep] POS!

Exactly!

[bleep] off!

The Calender has changed, you haven't.