Hey folks, looking to add a night vision scope to my collection. Going to use it for coyotes and varmints, I borrowed a rifle from a friend one night as he has a couple AR's set up for coyotes, it was a ATN but I don't remember the model. The only issue I saw is keeping the battery going in the cold, I'd like to stay around $1,000 if I can. Any recommendations?

I can offer some information on the subject for you.

First piece of advice is to not buy an ATN. Customer service sucks. They won't stand behind their products. Failures are the norm with them.

Not saying they can't make a decent device, just saying there are better out there.

A good choice for entry level is the Sightmark Wraith. It's a decent daylight/night vision scope. https://outdoorlegacygear.com/colle...igital-riflescope?variant=15986263326794

Get a better IR light, and mount the forward if you can. When you shoot, the gun smoke can give temporary white out through the scope because the light picks up the smoke.

Here's an example of daytime use.



And night time use.

Both videos were made through the Wraith. It has video capability, but no audio. Both distances were about 100 yards.



I really don't care for the IR light that comes with the Wraith. A great replacement light is Sniper Hog Lights... the 66LRX. You can see out to 800 yards depending on conditions (humidity, light focus, etc.) https://sniperhoglights.com/66lrx-rifle-light-1-color/

I'd get the "kit" with all the mounting and control options and batteries and charger.

With the Wraith, you see better through the scope than it records video. I think this is true of most all night vision devices that record video. They make a Wraith 4k that may offer a bit better picture, but I don't think it's $300 more better.

Be Careful!

Night vision, thermal, and hunting at night is a rabbit hole you can go down!

First it's a Wraith. Then it's another one.... Then it's thermal! Then it's a suppressor... and on and on...

Lately have been hunting with a Bering Super Hogster thermal.



The link I posted above with Outdoor Legacy is a great place to start. They are good guys that know their stuff, and will always do right by you.

As a side note, I may be selling one of my Wraith setups. Mostly because I'm looking at getting another thermal to put on that rifle. (See? I told you it was a rabbit hole...) If interested, PM me, and I'll fix you up.

So the Wraith with a better light is decent, eh?

I've got a 300BO Ruger American with a can on it.......

Yes!

The light makes all the difference in the world!

Two things about a good light... really there's three.

1) Ability to focus the beam of light to the center of your viewing screen.

There's cheap ripoff Chinese lights out there that have mounts that do not allow the light to be pointed anywhere but the set ridged position of the mount. It is very important to be able to point the light to the point of aim of the scope, then tighten the mount. If you can't do that, you'll be left in the dark with your viewer.

2) Ability to go from spot to flood with the IR light beam.

Spot for brighter focused light at long distances, flood for a more even, wider field of view when up close.

3) Ability to dim and brighten the IR light.

This is important when hunting in brush, trees, through fences, etc. High humidity as well.


A decent light should have all the above!

Have you had a chance to look at the 4-32X Wraith? Bunny sniping in the dark seems it'd be a good time

Rockinbar, what thermal is decent for hog hunting?

That's what my two Wraiths are.

Good for coons as well!

Man!

The thermal market is exploding!

Personally, I have and love the Bering Optics Super Hogster. (They are usually on backorder, but Bering seems to get them to the dealers pretty quick, so the wait time isn't horrible)

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/produ...ermal-rifle-scope?variant=32508616540234

Your thermal choices are only limited by your checkbook.

The Super Hogster I use, can easily identify animals at several hundred yards. That's important.

Some people like more definition to the optic. But it comes with a price.

Several guys I know are getting these IRay thermals...

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/produ...ermal-rifle-scope?variant=32652128288842

Great scope and terrific picture definition. But you could have two Super Hogsters for the price of one of them.

Getting another Super Hogster myself. I'm very satisfied with the scope and picture quality.

Thanks!

Solid advice from Barry.

I have both Wraith models (2-16X and 4-32X) as well as an AGM 25mm thermal. A Pulsar Thermion XM30 is currently on backorder with Outdoor Legacy (good guys to talk with) and looking forward to giving it a try (does not have an objective focus so we'll see how that works out).

Enjoy using both digital NV and thermal....it's addicting and a rabbit hole for sure. The IR light upgrade as Barry mentioned made a big difference (sniperhog light 50LRX my case as well as the headlamp). Pig perforating in the night is fun.

Comparison of Wraith 2-16 to 4x32? Photon 4.5?

I haven’t messed with many of the lower end NV scopes, but looking for some less expensive stuff for shooting, but still scanning with thermal.

Thanks!

Thanks for the info

No experience with the Photon but the Wraith 2-16X fit my needs better compared to the 4-32X based on field of view. Both work great though.

I use a low-resolution thermal monocular for scanning and that has been the tits.

A person can spend big $$$; I've stayed on the low side and have been happy. Some of the high dollar thermal stuff is impressive.

I have one of those as well.

Mine's most useful for walking/stalking.

If we are driving around looking for something to shoot out in the fields, it's not very good.

I plan on using a second Super Hogster for scanning and leave the other mounted on a rifle.

I see a Wraith in my future. 😃

Thanks....I was thinking the 2-16 would be a more useful range of magnification for me, but wasn’t sure on gain with the 28 vs 50mm lens?

I run a high end clip on thermal as a scanner and sight, (it’s something I’ll have to part with down the road, and buy another to keep) but was looking towards running a dedicated NV sight, and mostly scanning with a thermal, as you alluded to.

Yes.

I need to get rockinbbar's address so's I can bill him for the Wraith he's talked me into buying...

LOL

Tag

Why the crazy magnification on thermals? If a 2-10 normal scope works for hunting deer in the daylight why do I need 16 or 32x to hunt pigs at night?

Really and truly, I never use the magnification on my night vision or thermal either.

When you use the base magnification you are looking at your clearest picture.

With the Wraith the base magnification on the one I have is 4 power. You click the zoom one notch it goes to 8 power... It doubles, but the clarity is cut in half. Click it up one notch and it goes to 16 power, but again, clarity is cut in half... so your clarity is 1/4 of what it is on the base magnification.

With my thermal, the same applies.

Most of what I see people using magnification for is looking long distances to try and identify animals. But remember, your clarity suffers when you zoom in, so identification is harder and less certain. I hardly ever use more than base magnification when identifying animals at long range either.

So figure out what device has the best base magnification for your hunting needs and conditions.

Really and truly, you don't need much magnification to hunt accurately and shoot accurately. When I sighted in my Super Hogster on base magnification of 3 power, and a distance of 100 yards, I used a small hand warmer. These are the final two shots...

I currently run a 1x/2x Clip on in front of a 1-4 Trijicon....I’ve shot anything I wanted inside 300 with that combo. I might occasionally appreciate 6-8x, but not at the expense of resolution, either. Super crisp 1x beats blurry 6x, in my book. True optical zoom beats digital, with image quality, also....or seems to me.

I had to work last night, so while sitting in my office i got online and checked out the availability, found one local. It's now at home with me and I'm working on learning how to operate it.

rockinbar, I seem to recall you are using your Wraiths on a .308 AR, and the last time I noticed, you were not having any issues about them handling the recoil (which they are rated for, anyway).

Yessir, the Wraith handles the recoil of the .308 fine. Also have used the Wraith on 7.62x39 & .223.

So - a Wraith 2-16 would degrade to half quality image at 4x (at night)? Well chit.

That's correct.

Not just the Wraith, but any NV or thermal optic system that uses a resolution screen. (all of them)

Thanks... Still likely to buy a Wraith, eventually.

Keep the reports coming! Much appreciated.

The thing about losing resolution as you gain magnification is to get a decent base resolution... The resolution at lowest power.

If it has a better picture at the base, it doesn't hurt to bump it up a bit. The Wraiths are okay for that.

I can see that a man probably needs more than one of these.

Already looking at a 2 power.....

That's impressive

Some of that thermal stuff is really impressive but damn expensive. Would be neat though

Yea, when I dropped 2 grand for a Nightforce, I felt guilty....

Thermal says "Hold my beer" to my wallet.

I have to lead up to stuff like that, and I won' say that I won't have a 3+ grand thermal before it's all over, but I'm trying like hell not to do it now...

I did play with my new Wraith last night in the field in front of my house, but as rockinbbar pointed out, an aftermarket illuminator is needed. Hog Sniper says they'll have some units in stock the 22nd, I gonna keep an eye on their page.

Don't mind the .45-70 cases, another project, done now.

Nice, Vic!

Don't forget to get a bulk package or two of Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries.

Those are the best I've found.

It won't be long until I have my external battery packs ready to go, I hope.

I've come up with a slick way to mount and have a 10k mAh battery system that's rechargeable and will run NV and thermal scopes for a couple nights hunting. Then just plug it in and recharge it!

Keeps you from going down the battery rabbit hole as well...

Dang I was getting ready to start a thread for info on night vision/thermal. I am wanting to get something myself mostly for yotes. Want to stay under $1500. Not needing too of the line, shots are going to be inside of 200 yards 98% of the time. I haven't read up on the Wraith line up yet,but Thanks for the info,gotta do more reaseach now that inwas enlightened on ATN service.

Thanks, b-bar.

I'm thinking along the lines you suggest for batteries, I know they will be a "consumable". Glad you suggested a brand, keeps me from trying out a bunch just to see who's best.

One of those power supply battery-thingies for a cell phone is on the a-list.

Update...bat-trees ordered.

Ye have been warned...(ESP the ATN part..grin...)

First it’s “entry level”...
Then it’s middle of the road...
Then it’s dual NODs and a thermal...
Then it’s NV/Thermal overlay NODs...
Then it’s clip on thermal/NV...
Sell everything and go full thermal...
Damn I miss my NV...sell everything and start over...
Back to weapon mounted laser/illuminators and NODs...
Buy more thermal...

Rabbit hole for sure!

I hear you on the aftermarket illuminator. But how far did the Wraith illuminator work for you?

General question here.

I've got a 5-year-old Elusive Wildlife Kill Light 252 that came with red, green and white LED modules.

Anybody know if Elusive Wildlife now has IR LEDs that can drop in? I sent them an email but haven't heard back.

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

#1 Enabler. *grins*

I think a lot has to do with marketing - many folks think more is better........until they use it.

I'll take the lowest end possible and if the top end goes north of 10x, I couldn't care less.
FOV (at least for me) is paramount when using the riflescope atop the gun to scan as well - but that's for coyotes where one might be looking over a lot more ground than perhaps focused around a feeder or single meadow/field.

You forgot the gun part...

The part where you have certain calibers and cartridges you just HAVE to see how they work.

THEN you of course need thermal/NV to go on them.

And AMMO to feed it all.

Maybe.

If they standardized all their modules containing the LED's starting when you bought theirs...

I'm sure they'd rather sell you a new light though.

LOLOL.
Yes, I did forget to mention that. And nothing I have in the safe is suitable for any of it.

Rabbit hole is right. But I've been looking for the right excuse to offload some of the things that don't get used much these days.
I believe I've found it.

Saw an ATN 3-14 at Cabela's last night it was marked at $699. Gonna keep shopping around for a sightmark.

I bought a 2X Wraith a month or 2 ago. Took it out several nights to test it out, and decided if I was going to need a different light, I might as well jump in with both feet & put the coin into a thermal instead. One of those nights it was below freezing, and the eyepiece fogged over, rendering it useless. How the hell are you supposed to kill something while set up calling coyotes, scanning for incoming, and it fogs up? The answer I guess is to drop a couple more grand for a dedicated scanner.....

Most research seemed to show thermal is/was favored over NV. The Hogster 35 is on my radar, but I'm not sure if I want to do it this late in the season. Too bad hides weren't worth more around here to help the cause.....

Don’t even bring up the gun end of it...😬

Sometimes it's just temperature, humidity, etc. that fogs them up. Glass of any sort will.

I was using a handheld scanner last night, that I made up yesterday of my S. Hogster on an auxiliary battery and handle, and it was fogging up while scanning too. (Gonna start carrying a lens cloth now)

This is what was fogging...

Thermal wins hands down for a dedicated hunting optic...

What you say makes perfect sense and when it comes to good IR lights it’s more than just how bright it is. The light needs to be able to “cut” through photonic barriers...IE..fog, humidity, dust, smoke, and other light etc.

There is a considerable amount of image quality in the Super Hogster over the 35. Little more money, but it being a 12 micron pixel pitch makes a big difference IMO.

I wasn't aware of that difference. So that coupled with the higher 2.9X base power probably does make more sense....gulp.....

Just doing my good deed for the day....😂

I do think for your style and the type of country you would be hunting the 2.9x base magnification would serve you well.

I don't get to go hunt at night enough right now to justify spending the money for a Super Hogster. It's good to be able to read about the pros and cons with the nv scopes. I don't doubt it being a bottomless rabbit hole,but I am eyeballing the Wraith 2x and 4 x pretty hard to get my foot in the door.

I really didn't do a comprehensive check, but I could see things in the shadows about 75 or so yards away. One problem I had was a streetlight wanted to white the screen out if I turned to far in its direction.

I didn't see if the OEM illuminator had the ability to control the beam, either.

I did see where if I tried to look in the bushes about 125 yards away, I could see where either tightening the beam or more illum would help.

After using the OEM illuminator, when you get a better one, it'll be like... "Oh Yeah! Someone turned on the lights! I can see!..."

I ordered a Wraith about an hour ago. You guys ...

Geeze, a Max Million and a 6x42 is so unworthy.... I don't need more rabbit holes! I am out!

Blame bbar, it worked for me.....(grin)

Resisting......

Bbar, ya need to PM MtnBoomer....tell him about all the fun to be had....

It is lots of fun!

But the most interesting thing about using the Wraith, or night vision is seeing nature unaware at night.

I've hunted at night most of my life, but with light. Animals know you are there, and everything you view lets that reaction show.

It's really very amazing to watch what goes on when nothing is aware you are watching.

Stop it! 😁

Own the Night....Said every SF Operator.

😬🦫

Rockinbar, with your aftermarket IR illuminators are you staying with 850 nm, which is what the OEM illuminator is?

Have you tried 940 nm?

Tag. Just ordered a Wraith...😁