For those of you that use the CDS dials, how well do they work for you? I have a freshly built 280 Remington that I'm going to use primarily on fields, and a very long power line cut. Shots will be out to 600 on the power line.

The ease of just dialing to the yards on the dial is what I'm interested in, as a deer crossing a power line sometimes doesn't allow for a lot of time.

So, are they as accurate as I'm hoping for? Will they put me on a 8 inch plate as well as my SWFA's, and Athlons with dials out to 6-700 yards?

I'm specifically thinking of the VX3HD 3.5-10x40

Real world experience appreciated. Thanks

I have a couple, I've tested them out to 600 (that's a LOOOOONNNNGGG shot in Coastal Georgia!!) Yes they work as advertised and intended,

You send Leupold the info and a dial is laser engraved for your specifics.

Yes, they work - takes the "math" out of the equation,

That's good to hear. The big Ag fields that I hunt aren't a problem with a turret scope. Most of the time, there is plenty of time to range, plug in the numbers, and then dial. But cutting out the app step out would be nice when a deer is crossing a 50 yard wide power line cut.

My furthest steel gong is 370 yards. Primary rifle is a Rem 700 KS chambered 270, with Leupold 2.5x8-36 CDS on top, zero'ed 1" high at 100 yards. No issue hitting the 370 yard gong, first shot, cold bore by dialing the CDS dial. I just tape my "dope" to the stock of my rifle.

As long as the erector tracks and your MV is temp-stable and consistent, the CDS concept will get you within about 0.5 MOA of your desired POI, depending on atmospheric conditions.

Will a CDS dial be as accurate at 600-700 yards in all conditions as your SWFAs with a good ballistic solver? No. You give up accuracy and versatility for convenience and simplicity. Will it be accurate enough in any condition for your needs? Well, that’s for you to decide. Based on my experience, I’d also have a lot more faith in your SWFA’s mechanical reliability than a CDS scope.

Why not just put white tape on your SWFA or Athlon elevation turret and mark distances, if you’re wanting a CDS-style solution? You’d combine the mechanics of the SWFA/Athlon with the ability to easily change the tape if atmospheric conditions or your load change.

I would do the tape thing to a scope you already have and trust dialing. In concept the CDS is a nice idea and I like the zero lock, but.. I have found that predicted dope isn't always perfect. it might be the scope doesn't dial exactly to spec, or your bullets BC isn't right or temp humiidity/altitude or MV is a little off.. it seems as the range gets out there I do better with confirmed dope than the theoretical dope on a CDS dial. If you live near where you hunt..confirm your dope and make a tape.

Lettering on a turret,doesn't enhance the erector. Hint.

I'll greedily take an etched reticle instead and simply paste it as I please. Hint............

Id trust the mechanical reliability of the SWFA over the Leupold as well. I've had 2 Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 with CDS fail. Not a good track record there. The only thing the SWFA is lacking over the Leupold is glass quality, but that's great if you want to see your misses on a nice buck when your CDS takes a chit on you.

The cds scope I had did work in the limited use I did with it. Leopold uses very small dinky threads to hold the turrets on with their low end scopes. As in it’s only held by 1.5 tiny threads.

For what you wanna do I would get a nightforce nxs compact or a Zeiss v4 if you can handle a bit more weight. Out of 4 swfa scopes. Only 2 of them tracked perfectly. Not good odds.

Ammo velocity and bullet trajectory change with temperatures and air density, which CDS dials do not take into account.

Learn to use turrets with corrections in MOA or MILS. An hour of time reading is enough to grasp the concepts and end up with a far more useful and precise tool.

Correcting for elevation is easy, wind is the invisible hand that moves the bullet and is the real challenge.

Correcting for wind requires learning plus practice.

There is no substitute for practice.

If only in "fairness",I've nearly a hunnert SWFA scopes and have yet to have an "issue",though I actually fhuqking shoot. Hint.









Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Leupold is perfect for limited use.

I had one on a .243, it worked perfectly out to the 600 yard mark.

I have CDS scopes on several scoped rifles- a .280, a .270 WSM, a .30-06, and two 6.5 PRC's. All work to perfection. I have also found that a lot of my handloads are so close to each other ballistically that the same CDS dial works for several different bullets in the same caliber.

The LESS you "know","see", or "do",the "better" CDS is. Hint.

If you simply shoot 100yd paper,one will CERTAINLY see that Reupold hasn't the mechanics or mechanisms to arrange such. Placing a sticker upon an erector,do NOT "enhance" it's mechanics. A bumper sticker doesn't make a VW into a Porsche,if only OBVIOUSLY. Hint.

It is funnier than fhuqk,when Drooling Fhuqktards embrace these notions and swoon same. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

If you give them the specifics, the Leupold CDS can be made to take expected atmospherics into account (altitude/barometric pressure, temp, etc) and your bullet’s velocity and BC (published, tested, or your own drop figures). The dial is only as good as the info you give them. I have a few and they’ve worked fine for me out to 500 yds or so.

NONE of which makes a fhuqk,because the internals are compromised. Hint.

NONE of you gals have actually shot them on paper,which is funnier than fhuqk. Hint.

It is funnier than fhuqk,that you swoon a sticker for a fhuqking turret,who's erector is a Goat Fhuqk. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Yep, they work fine if set up properly and used properly.

IF your atmospheric conditions never change.
IF your velocity is very consistent - read - you never change factory ammo, never change ammo lots, bought a lifetime supply, and/or handload to tight specs always using the same components.

And the biggest one of all:

IF the scope works as designed. Holds zero and tracks properly. Roll of the dice with the scope in question.

You like all those IF’s? Rock on with your CDS.

If you use a data card taped to your stock, you’re assuming one, maybe two sets of atmospheric conditions too …

If you must get one, why not just use a MOA dial instead? It is just as fast. You still need to verify your dope .

I don't have a CDS on a Leupold but I do have a Kenton turret on an SWFA. IME it is good to about 450-500 yards. After that atmospherics affect ballistics enough (as several others have correctly pointed out) that I use Hornady's software and count clicks.
Contact Kenton they can make a custom turret for your SWFA.

of course! But taped on dope charts are not etched in aluminum and are free and unlimited.

You can get an MOA dial.
You get a free one.

Ok, I didn't take into consideration atmospheric conditions. This rifle is going to be hunted at sea level and 45 degrees in Virginia, then 9000 ft plus on our newly acquired property in NM, and the upper peninsula of Michigan. I'm pretty sure the CDS won't be able to keep up.

I just found another 10x SWFA SS. The turrets just plain work on everything I have them mounted on. I appreciate all of the input, but I'm staying with what I know works for me.

I don’t remember exactly but Leupold can tailor it for altitude. I think it was either 3000’ or 5000’ increments.

For all practical purposes Virginia and Michigan would be very close. 9000’ would need a separate dial for sure. If you haven’t already, get a ballistic app and dink around with it, changing altitudes, temps, etc and see how they affect the trajectory, velocity and energy.

Swfa night force athlon tract maven

Yes, One. Then what?

have not read the replies thus far but it's like a lot of other stuff they're only as good as the information they're fed when they're made.

The CDS dial (or any other range-specific dial anyone cuts for you) will be every bit as accurate as the atmospheric dope the mils or MOA calculations were based on. When those atmospherics/depression angle change, then the ranges etched on that dial will no longer be precise.
I think I have cracked the code on this process. My Leica binocular's laser range finder has a feature where it corrects the laser-measured slant range to a sea-level horizontal zero depression angle range. Leica calls this "equivalent horizontal range" but I imagine there are many other outfits whose systems do the same. It displays both the raw laser slant range and the corrected range in its display. So I just have my dials cut to sea level, standard day, and then dial to the Leica "equivalent horizontal range" shown in the range finder.

How much does the MV of your load vary from coldest to hottest conditions in which you shoot?

It has worked for me.

You can purchase another ….

Thats why you enter the average temp, average elevation, etc. Or you could have multiple dials made for various locations, conditions, if so desired.

Right. The rangefinder is doing the trig (cosine) for you to show the horizontal range. E.G. if your target is 30 degrees below the horizon the horizontal distance or cosine is .87 that of the slant range. So if the slant range is 500 yds, you would hold as if it was 500 X .87 = 435 yds

I take the easy way out and only shoot at stuff out to about 350 yards.

I don’t have anything else to compare them to. But I have 3 and they work for what I use them for. I’m not homing anything out real far.

The CDS in yards is for low IQ morons who are too stupid to figure out drop in MOA or MILs for their load and dial it

In off season I shoot at elevation around 1000’ and hot as fu*k low desert.400, 500 and 600 yards off the bench . My CDS is designed for something between my deer and elk camp Which is around 4500ish elevation and I think I have 40 or 45 degrees Fahrenheit. Yet, Somehow I can connect on the gong at 1000’ elevation at 60-90 Degrees temps.
Unless you’re going to want to shoot sub moa past my max distance of 600 yard and you can live with 1.5 moa. I wouldn’t stress it. 8” pie plate at 600 is a kill on game.

Or for people who aren't anal.

More for people that are shooting a 24" plate vs the ones that are shooting a 2" plate. You may think that is "anal", when others are thinking precision and hitting a smaller target, with more regularity.

So, it's for shooting Plates. The CDS works fine for people who hunt a big game animal or several every year and don't want to Get Anal about dials. They make white trucks. They make black trucks...whatever suits your needs.

No kidding. A dope chart taped to the stock is nothing different, just slower to use. Still figuring in approx velocity, approx elevation, approx temp, etc, etc.

Not sure how fast someone can run a ballistics program on their phone while an animal is standing out at 700 yards. Even then it is still a guess on some things. Could be updrafts, various cross winds, etc.

Doesn't matter if you are calculating in MOA, MIL, Inches, Centimeters, fractions of a foot, or whatever. Still have to consider all variables, and raise the aim point to the location of the intended impact point.

Or you can use a Christmas tree reticle and do the same thing. Still raising the aiming point by counting dots or hash marks, and guessing on the variables.

Slower, but more precise. I can print a DOPE chart with 5 yard increments, but the CDS dial only has so much space for distance markings. Between them, a guy has to guess within a couple of clicks.

The more variables you can eliminate or bound, the more closely your POA and POI will match. I mentioned this early in the thread, but I’ll say it again, with a CDS system you give up accuracy and versatility for convenience and simplicity. A Kestrel or a phone app can take MV variation per degree F, update atmospherics, etc. Slower than CDS, yes, but a 700 yard shot at big game shouldn’t be rushed, anyway. As I said before, out to about 600 yards the CDS system will likely get you within about 0.50-0.75 MOA of POA. If that’s good enough for your needs is for you to decide.

I don't think those that have them are trying to hit a 2" plate. We're trying to hit a 8" circle on a deer, elk, etc...at whatever yardage they're at. I do think the CDS does that as advertised. Does it happen with precision? I donno because I haven't tried it. I haven't tried it because it does what I ask of it, with a reticle my schitty eyes can see.

Exactly correct.

I've left the majority of my CDS dialed scopes in MOA, and use a dope chart just because I change loads and didn't want to buy more dials.

A friend of mine has one on his 300WSM and I've seen it work for him very well during an Antelope hunt a couple years ago and in practice. My "backyards" range goes out to 760yds. In prep for hunting season I'll put steel plates out at varying distances and we'll practice from field positions from 200-600+ yards. For those sessions his dial works very well on an 8" standard kill zone.

The biggest advantage I see is speed. I can't laze, check a dope chart and twist a turret as fast as he can laze and twist a turret. The turrets still have 1/4 MOA graduations, so you can "refine" + or - in 1/4 MOA off the yardage mark.

My solution to need for speed is the B&C reticle and the CDS dial left in MOA. Out to 500yds the B&C works quite well, especially when pared with Strelok so I know what the absolute distances are.

True, but wondering which scope allows you dial in 5 yd increments?

After reading all this, I double checked the name of this sub forum, and sure enough it is still called Hunting Optics🤔

I love the MIL/MIL setups for sure, but I've lost count of the number of hogs myself and a couple of buddies have whacked with a CDS scope. It definitely has it's application, just like every other piece of hunting gear does.

The inverse argument (which is the one I’m making) is that for a given distance, a DOPE chart can tell you an exact solution, rather than guessing within a click or two between distance markings. The DOPE chart and CDS dial would essentially be the same if the chart were printed in 50 or 100-yard increments. Again, assuming mechanical integrity, I’m not arguing against the CDS concept, more pointing out the trade-offs. For some, it may be the best option. Though, I do still think that the tape idea is more versatile and adaptable.

The HILARITY of the situation,is the schit erector mechanics,that CDS is cobbled onto. The script on the turret is moot,but internals are not and that's where Reupold sucks copious ass. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............

The best some can do is hunting 2” steel plates.

Raging Estrogen Levels and Hurt Feeler Reports,don't "enhance" Reupold erectors ladies. It is fascinatingly HILARIOUS,how incredibly Stupid you Crying Clueless Kchunts are. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

Actually a dope chart can tell you the exact solution for the conditions for what it was made for.. so unless your temp, pressure (also takes into account altitude), humidity remain exactly the same as when you ran the ballistic software, you're using dated data.

Real current data is derived from a ballistic app tied to a Kestrel or similar with current conditions.

At work, we call it the 5 tenants of accurate predicted fires ( I was an Artillery Officer), one of which was meteorological Data.

Bottom line, CDS is for people who don’t know any better. With a little education and better understanding, no one who is well informed uses them. Every single one of the guys that Ive met who uses CDS (or similar) also shoots factory ammo. Which I find funny. Because I then ask them, “so you bought 4-5 cases of that ammo with the same lot # right?” Blank stare. Hell, most don’t even own a chronograph and just use the velocity printed on the box when cutting the turret! Ha! Then they think that cut turret allows them to do magical things at 800 yards!

And I think that brings up the real objection people have to CDS. It’s a shortcut. It enables people to take shots and attempt to do things they probably shouldn’t. Without the proper understanding required to take such shots.

Not ONE of the fhuqking "esteemed" tenants,involves suffering a Reupold erector. HINT.

You ladies are sooooooooo enthralled with "winning" your Dumbfhuqk Tournament,that the horse can't even see the fhuqking cart. Had a visiting pard yesterday,pounding things at 1K with my Montucky Baby 6 BR/6x MQ and he simply blew his own mind. That despite having his 15lb 6 CompMatch PRS Rifle in tow,with 105 Booger HighBirds(XTR2 Mil/Mil '15x). My 20" Waypoint with 112 MB's performed exceptionally to 1400yds+,with the '12x BTR Gen2. The jaunt has him cutting multiple checks and rethinking numerous things. Sig Kilo6's sure are tough on Geovids! Had me simply saying "Toldjaso". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Well, yeah. That's obviously the case for both the CDS dial and the DOPE chart. We were discussing how their resolution compares, not how air density variation necessitates a new set of solutions in either case.

You assume a lot of things that quite frankly, are flat out ridiculous. I've got a couple of buddies with either a VX5 or VX6 CDS that have killed several thousand inches of mule deer with them, no problemo. They are far from ignorant, or inexperienced. In the hands of experienced hunters like these guys, it's quite elementary actually.

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. I know you are correct, and I know some guys like that too. Very experienced hunters, many are also bowhunters, but their technical knowledge of ballistics and shooting is minimal. They know how to hunt and kill, and that will always be far more important in the field, but they also don’t know and don’t care about the finer technical aspects of shooting. Great hunters, not shooters. Shooting long range at a high skill level requires a greater understanding of ballistics than simply hunting. I’ve also killed plenty of inches of mule deer and a lot else with a bow and/or a simple duplex scope at under 300 yards, long before I knew what a milliradian was. Two different skills. Hunting success is different matter. My point is, those who have a deep understanding of the technical aspects of ballistics probably don’t shoot CDS. There are the few experienced hunters who get by on grit and woodsmanship and may choose CDS for whatever reason, and then there are the overwhelming majority of the rest who choose CDS because they just walked out of a big box and it sounded cool.

The real fact is, 95% of all big game animals are killed under 300 yards, so most all of the incessant "long range hunting" ballistics equipment and prep is irrelevant to actually killing stuff.

The typical Reupold CDS,couldn't begin to pass a simplistic 100yd Tall Target Test,but they are "great!" inside the barbed-wire! Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............

No debate there!

But then what fun would this forum be?

And most of the long range shooting equipment purchased is used at similar ranges.


Thread was a glorious failed attempt at Leupold bashing. The arguments against it were more of a benefit of it.

Good point!

I reckon I'll wait until tomorrow afternoon,to mail in my MK4 Reupold Spotter(for the third time). Can they put a CDS on it,so it will "work"?!? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

The first one I got because I wanted to try it. It worked for what I do with it. I have crappy eyes and probably won't ever shoot past 600 yards. I probably won't ever shoot an animal past 400 yards. So, really I don't even need a CDS but they're fun to play with IMO. I do reload my own ammo. But it's not like I'm blowing the factory stuff out of the water, although it's more accurate.

The difference with handloads is you can replicate the velocity every time. Even as powder lots or brass may change, you just work up the velocity to match the turret. CDS would actually work much better for a handloader. But I’d venture to guess that the vast majority of CDS users are factory ammo guys. They don’t even know what different lots are. Or understand that their barrel may naturally speed up after a couple hundred shots and change things. Or understand that environmental conditions change ballistics. Ignorance is bliss and it’s a good thing deer offer a sizeable amount of target area inside of most ranges.

Good points SDHNR. I am a handloader and I have a magnetospeed chronograph. I have a VX-5HD 2-10 with ZL2 and CDS. It's on a Tikka T3X 270 WSM, and I always use the same load (Nosler 140 accubond at 3200). Air density changes can change ballistics at very long range but I tend to hunt in conditions similar to what the CDS was set up for. It works very well for me and I have not had any problems with tracking in my scope.

Now that's some serious self-righteous high-horse BS if I've ever heard it!

Nobody has ever placed CDS atop a Sound Rifle,gunned a 100yd Tall Target Test,got done and said "that works great". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

CDS = +950 inches

CheeseGrater,

You can't even take a real picture,with a real camera and are a Hay Bale Sluicing Fenced Fhuqktard...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart for trying.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

Stick is definitely right about one thing. The hurt feelers and panty wadding abound here. It’s never not funny!

I haven't seen anything that narcotic infested midget says in years.

Probably less !

Comedy gold in the optics forum, again !!

Tough to beat the HILARITY of Imaginary Pretend Ignore,heralded from inside a barbed wire fence. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............

Have seen the Freedom line track perfectly. Windage clicks were mushy however.

You are practical minded and I appreciate your outlook. I think the majority of folks are too. I’d wager simple MOA duplex reticle (9 or 10 power max)
sit atop most hunter’s rifles. Nothing against long range shooters and equipment mind you. As long as they aren’t just wounding animals. The more firearms enthusiasts the better. Ultimately, simple purists likely prefer less equipment/gadgetry. I know I do. I and others like you don’t have overwhelming interest to attempt to harvest quarry beyond 300. Heck, it’s hard to find places to shoot beyond 300; even less than that.

Used one last year in WY antelope hunt, the rangefinder showed 320 yards, I dialed the scope to 325 and got my animal.

Personally have the 3.5-10x40 VX3HD like you are looking at and have to say the CDS is extremely accurate. I have taken shots out to 600-700 with mine mounted on a Christensen Mesa in 7mm-08. Can dial it up very fast and have had no issues with mine. can not recommend the CDS enough as well as that specific scope.

L3, suggest you PM SU35 as he's likely too much of a gentleman to chime in here. Should you wish to hear from someone who can vouch for SU35 regarding this topic, in detail, please PM me.

I've killed several elk and Coues with my CDS scope and an MOA dial. I set for a maximum point blank range and dial up if needed. Works well enough.

I do the same thing with my Tikka 695 7mag. Works great.

i have 5 Leupolds with CDS and they all track just fine. It is better system than the naysayers would have you believe.

drover

Used it on a Kansas mule deer this evening. Yep, my first scope thump.

Damn bud, that's a bruiser.

Heckuva buck EdM. Congrats!

Nice buck!

Private land, outfitted?

Yes and yes, 8000 acre property. When I lived in Kansas I bought a lifetime license so can hunt as a resident. Best $300 I have spent.

YOU SUCK!!!!!

It is VERY "Surprising!" that the higher the fence,the "better" CDS "works". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

That's awesome!!!

WOW!!

Dude, you da man. Congratulations.

That's bucket list material.

TAG

Nice buck!!
Since this is a CDS thread. How far did you dial and by the looks of it, it Looks like it worked.

This is the prerequisite to any dialing accuracy, whether the data comes from a card, an app a CDS or some other marked turret.

If the erector is not capable of repeating the dialed data, every single time, nothing else matters.

MM

My apologies in advance to EdM, but Holy hell, I just spit coffee all over my keyboard. That was pretty funny, stick.

All joking aside...EdM, that is an amazing buck. Beautiful and congratulation's!!

Actually it's a ridiculously stupidasss thing to say and I'm not surprised given it came from a narcotic infested druid. Do you clowns actually believe a 4 strand barbed wire fence is capable of impeding animal movement ?

I made the mistake of reading a few of the posts on this Optics thread. I was almost instantly reminded why I don’t waste my time on the Optics part of the Forum.

That’s 10 minutes of my life I’ll never get back. At least it’s good to know whose posts to avoid. Live and learn - painfully.

Bingo Johnny.

Nice buck Ed. 👍🏼

He was stout for sure. Six years old.

Good thing it only took one shot. The campfire "experts" say the next shot would have been 4 feet low and 10" left, or the scope would have lost all internal parts after the first shot.

Isn't that the truth? Gotta play grabasss with the turrets before you can kill stuff.

CheeseGrater,

It's funnier than fhuqk,that you feel you need to "justify" the Sportsmanship of your fence(s)...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for trying.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!......................

Sorry for the very late response - I was elk hunting.
The answer is, "Not very much" and the reason is I use the most temperature resistant powders I can find for my loads. I live in Arizona (and hunt there) and also hunt Montana every year. I have been in the field from 5 to 105 degrees, so stable velocity is a big deal to me.
And even when velocity does vary somewhat significantly, the effect on trajectory is relatively minor within reasonable distances. The greater problem is when temp instability introduces significant variance in point of impact, which does happen, both vertically and horizontally.
Sorry again for the very late reply.
Rex

What if your Leupold is like all of mine and the adjustments don't work as advertised. 4 clicks might move it half what it is supposed 2 or it might move it double what it should. Do you knock on the scope after making an adjustment before you shoot? No way would I move the adjustments on a a Leupold and then shoot at an animal very far.

The scope tracking poorly is irrelevant to a discussion about the utility of the CDS dial itself. If the scope doesn't track, it is meaningless what's etched on the dial. It's a valid complaint about the scope though - plenty of threads here to jump in on that issue.
I did a tracking test a couple years ago on the VX-3i 3.5-10 Windplex on my 6.5CM. This was at 100 yards. I fired two shots to confirm POI, then dialed up 3 MOA, shot 1, dialed up 3 MOA, shot one, etc., so shots 6 and 7 were together, then dialed down 3, shot one, etc. until the 12 MOA I had dialed was back to zero. All the second rounds hit very close to the first round. The ranges next to each group are only indicative of what range that MOA amount corresponds to. I would say this scope tracks pretty well. This is a test that anyone planning on dialing their scope ought to perform. And of course, you also have to actually dial and shoot targets out at long range to confirm the dope is good (which is unrelated to the scope's tracking).

Cheers,
Rex

Reupold can’t/won’t/don’t track,if only obviously to anyone who actually shoots. That by literal design. Hint…………….

50/50 shot IME.

Literally. Had one that tracked and one that didn’t.

No determination on longevity of the one that worked ‘cuz I sent them both down the line and now use Nightforce or SWFA on most.

I just ran another set of tracking tests yesterday on the two Leupolds on my 270 WSM and 6.5 Grendel. 270 WSM is on the left below, and Grendel on the right. The 270 is a VX5-HD 3-15 Windplex, and the Grendel a VX-3HD 2.5-8 Duplex. Same method as the one above - fired ten shots each, dialing up/down 3 MOA between each shot (12 MOA max, ending up back at zero). These are both honest 3/4 MOA rifles (or better). The picture speaks for itself. Interesting that with 12 MOA dialed in the POI is exactly 12 MOA up (12.48") and the two rounds (#5 and 6 of both strings) practically cut one hole. 12 MOA equates to almost 600 yards with the Grendel and 675 yards with the WSM - more than enough for me! The scales I drew are in inches, not MOA, (easier to lay out off the ruler) that's why I added a 12 MOA tick at the top for reference.
I certainly believe folks who have had bad experiences with Leupolds, but I'm just not one of them - the performance of all three of my current Leupold "dialing" scopes is just great. Same for every "non-dialing" one I ever had - over a couple dozen.

Best Regards,
Rex

PS - the three-shot group at the top is unrelated - just checked the POI on my buddy's 338 RUM.

Other than the 12 MOA mark, there is some seemingly interesting behaviour on the way up and down, but it's difficult to say anything definitive with only 2 shots at each increment with 0.75 MOA rifles. The scopes clearly don't track terribly, but I'm not sure they track excellently, either.

Very reasonable comments, Jordan. And I'm not the greatest shot in the world either - though these are not off a benchrest - they're off the bipod, with a rear bag. But I am thinking these will meet my needs. I'll be taking them both to the long range next week to validate my dope, and that will provide a little more confidence on their tracking (or NOT). When I did the same with the 3.5-10 VX-3i on my 6.5 CM I was very happy.

Cheers,
Rex

I don't know about the scope, but your penmanship is impressive! My target notes look like they were done by a third grader.

One of my elk hunting buddies bought 2 new vx6’s for new 6.5-300 Weatherbys. At long range sight in day he hammered the 500 with cds high percentage of hits at 700 with a good breeze going at 3500 ft of elevation he set for 5000 to cover here & Colorado.

I used a Leupold FX-3 12x40 AO with target turrets this year. Mulie buck at 475 yards, checked my card, clicky click 8 MOA plus a click, bang/flop. Not exactly CDS but the same application.





P

Thanks again for your comments Jordan. I have always admired your knowledge and straightforwardness in how you present it on 24CF.
I took the rifles out to the 500-meter range to test my dope and further check their tracking. I set up the first target at 425 yards and dialed the VX-5HD 3-15 Windplex on the 270 WSM to the calculated 4 MOA (hadn't touched it since leaving it at zero after the tracking test last week). There was a stiff left quartering tailwind blowing and I held 1 MOA left to account for the estimated crosswind component. Got a great three-shot group that was maybe 1/4 MOA high, but I was unsure if tailwinds and funky downrange stuff may have accounted for that. Later measured with the caliper at 1.67" (bipod and rear bag).

I was pretty happy with that and rather than go set another target, I dialed to 7.75 MOA for the 500 meter (550 yards) fixed steel ram, held 1.5 MOA left of "center of mass" and shot - HIT, right at POA. So I changed my hold a bit left for a "kill shot" and shot again - another good hit!

I was pleased as punch, dialed back to zero, and cased her up. Next stop - Montana for deer and pronghorn next week! I'll check zero upon arrival but I think I really have a winner with this combo. I reckon I'll have the free CDS dial cut for this load (175 TGK at 2850 FPS - 8" twist).

Cheers,
Rex

Nice shooting, Rex!

The concept of CDS is good and will work for a specific set of conditions. Several tops would be smart if you hunt different places. I had one CDS and quite a few M1 and target turreted Leupolds over the years. After many failures, two during a coues wt hunt, I moved all my Leupold scopes along. With tags being harder to get in recent times, can't abide with any scope that has questionable performance.


Rex,

guessing but that ram sure looks like one at the Tucson Rifle Club Silhouette range out past 3 Points!

We go there to check comeups with any new rifle, bullet, scope combo. We use the 300M javelina (326 yds) and the 500M rams (546yds) If comeups match for both distances then the package is a go.

I have encountered some poor accuracy at the 500 ram with excellent groups at 100 yds. Turns out the gap between the McMillan stock and the barrel was a bit too small for the use with a bipod. This happened three times with different McMillan's, my preferred stock for LR hunting. Once the barrel channel was opened up the rifles shot fine.

So were you at the Tucson Rifle Club range?

I spray the cartridge I used on target after shooting before spraying over with more black paint.

Nice shooting guys.

BSA should be a long shortly.

Yep. That's the same piece of steel. Darn thing must be two inches thick. Lord only knows what it weighs.

I have some real world experience to add now to the previous entries on the two Leupolds on my 270 WSM and 6.5 Grendel.
Got to our friends' Montana ranch the day before deer season last Friday. My hunting buddy wanted to do a spot check on his 300 PRC and 6mm CM and set up a target at 290 yards. After he shot I dialed the Grendel to + 1.75 MOA and took a shot - right on the money.

After my buddy shot his second rifle, I told him, "You know Dave, my WSM has been trying to tell me to trust it for the last two months, and I'm finally going to listen."
No luck on day one but I glassed up a decent shooter buck from about 900 yards on day two and managed to sneak to a little bluff exactly 400 yards across a canyon from him. I dialed + 3.5 MOA elevation and held 2 MOA for wind. My trust was rewarded.

Here's the exit wound.

I was planning to use the Grendel for antelope, but for the first time in 30 years of annual visits, there were no goats on the ranch, so I used it for a Whitetail "B" tag instead - worked great but it was only a 120 yard shot so no contributing data on the CDS performance.

As indicated above, I have not yet had CDS dials cut for these two rifle/load combinations, and am just dialing to the MOA, so my experience only validates tracking performance, not the CDS concept. As I wrote before, I calculate all my dope for Sea-Level, Standard Day, and let the Leica bino convert the raw range, atmospherics, and depression angle to that datum. These two rifle/load combinations are proving so accurate though, that I believe I'll have the dials cut for these loads, and to the same Sea-Level, Standard Day values I have been using so far.
I've only owned two rangefinders, an old Leupold hand-held, and the one inherent to my Leica bino. Even 15 years ago, when I got the Leupold, it would calculate the converted horizontal range for upslope/downslope. The Leica now adds temp/pressure to that to allow the sea-level conversion (they call it Equivalent Horizontal Range).
Do most all rangefinders these days have this capability? If so I would expect what I am doing with my dope to be a more popular approach than it apparently is, from my reading on the 'net.

Cheers,
Rex

As the inventor of the custom engraved drop compensation turret (CDS) I figured you fellas would love for me to get in this enlightening discussion.

For those that claim a chart is more accurate:

The custom turret represents one set of conditions on your chart. If the set of conditions is the same as the shooting conditions then the CDS will be just as aaccurate as your chart.

If the range is under 600yds and you are shooting a good bullet at a good velocity then the CDS will be perfectly fine for a very wide range of shooting conditions.

It just as easy to make a "dial to" chart that will provide precise solutions for longer range under differing conditions.

For those sad girls who can't get a Leupold to track well you always have to option of buying a rifle that shoots well with the added bonus of having a Leupold that tracks well.

I hope this helps some of you.

For you viewing pleasure:

Bless your heart. Hint.

Exactly what year did you "invent" the Reupold MK4 6x M3 turret? Not that you have ever seen one. Hint.




Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

No wonder you fail at getting Leupolds to track.

There was nothing custom about the turret Leupold made for the Ultra/MKIV and if you tried to use one it explain why you always struggle.

Of course you've never seen one and had to steal a picture to boot. It's no what's on the wrapper,it's what's inside. HINT.

Off to see if I can get a Buck to cooperate,so 4yr old BabyMan can shoot it in the face with his "Chickmunk"(the REAL one). Keep Pretending aloud. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

I can say I never owned one of the cookie cutter M3 turrets for a .308 load that never did exist but you not only tried to make one work but took pictures of your failure.

I do have pictures of MIV from the way back machine.





Shooting at a mile is just as easy using a standard MOA/Mil turret or a custom drop turret if the rifle is up to the task.

Keep fretting wrappers,as your BIGGEST Day,was shooting someone else's rifle. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I know the MK4 M1 16x rather well. Hint.




In fact,my MK4 Spotter is at the Reupold Repair Shop now,but in fhuqking "fairness",only for the 3rd fhuqking time. Hint.




Didn't want to break my Wingman's spirits an it's early yet,to be Rutly Excited. Google as you must. Hint.



Keep licking wrappers,trying to make them stick,as you Pretend aloud. Hint.................

I already told you I would never buy a scope handycapped with a turret just in MOA/Mils.

Good for you to tkae a kid out hunting.

Custom Dial to 550yds is pretty easy for a younger hunter borrowing a good shooting rifle sporting a nice Leupold.

John,

Since you’re a PARD, here’s a gift of knowledge from the Fire.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/18589333/1

Nice shooting and nice buck!

Darned if the 2.5x8 w/ CDS didn't deliver the goods again Monday evening. 407 yards per Leica.

Nice work! Congrats.

DO "quantify" if only obliviously,the "whopping" 407yd correction requisite,upon said Goat Fhuqk's erector. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Sorry, above your pay grade...

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it,in the manner you NEED most. Hint.

Don't "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

57,035 posts, damn. Hey roll it out and flop it on the table welcome to Jamaica biggest log ever...some questions for ya; what are your requirements for a scope for hunting then? And can you define hunting, long range hunting, and extended long range hunting? Feel like there's some perspective missing here so lets add that.

Sweetie,

You are chasing me and your Brokedicktitude is fhuqking HILARIOUS...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your AirSoft heart. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

so a chicken, with an extra big wang, ok

I have a couple of these vx hd's with the cds-zl's about to see what all the fuss is about, was a leupold hoe for ages then went to trijicon for a good spell but still Leupolds in the house on a shelf, and so it will be a dual house again as I put some through some paces but really am curious what you use scopes for? A shat ton of folks seem to fill walls and freezers no problem and the cds is about as good a set up as I've seen for hunting including long range hunting (which has a pretty defined range but would love to hear your definition), I wish the trijicons had something similar on the elevation, heck I'd love 1/3 moa per click in perfect world also if I was allowed to ask for it lol. Do you hunt up there? Or just post here full time? Define hunting and long range hunting from your perspective please. It will help contain this thread so it's for the greater good, I'm sure you'll understand.

Your copious Insecurities are VERY well founded...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Keep Pretending aloud,with your Imagination. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I have trusted the CDS scope on many kills. It has worked fine. 450 yards with a 6.5 Rem Mag

what a great shot, and shot lol

there's clearly plenty of evidence here that the cds is a heckuva good hunting option, apparently leupold has been crushed of late and could be coincidental timing as to when I started down my trijicon playtime with the accupoints (3-9 green duplex or mil) and might have missed this apparent spell of quality control perhaps? I never had issues with Leupolds leading up to my switch, have a custom shop right next door, I had them put 7/8 standard target turrets on everything and Kenton spin me up speed dial knobs etc., apparently should have hung onto my old mark 4 4.5-14's, I dunno, it's nice to hear the newer ones are working great for a lot of people and that the 'rumour' mill seems to be around those that want to drive fence posts with them, 9' drops, or whatever or do ultra precision work for elr shooting disciplines etc. which isn't even close to hunting or long range hunting....so I'm a bit of loss here as the perspectives aren't fully discussed, seems clear I'm going to have to hang around awhile to figure this big stick guy out or get him to engage but whatever, I'll pick it up in time, no time to go back and learn someone that way, will just see going forward, seems like he's got unrealistic expectations for task at hand so far

it's like he has lds, leupold derangement syndrome

You can nitpick every variable on a ballistics calculator or you can set up a CDS at middle of the road conditions and kill game. It’s not rocket science at distances under 500 yards. I haven’t experienced poor tracking but I’m sure someone, somewhere has.

oh hell let's jump in here. never had a CDS go but I still like little Scopes but I also currently have one that the reticle looks a little bit like the one that stick posted but not quite that bad it is broken..


and technically how much different is a 1/3 MOA clicks go from a Mil
scope?? and I think all of us with any kind of memory know exactly who a new member is here LOL

I've simply got 100's of scopes and NOTHING is mechanically schittier,than a fhuqking Reupold. Hint.

CDS/BDC's are HILARIOUS Goat Fhuqks and kudos to you kchunts,who "know" so little,as to condone same. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!......................

And I’ve killed 100’s of animals with a Leupold.
You must be mentally handicapped

Ya think? Lol.

Xi was in San Fran last week. Maybe he brought samples of some of their finer CCP optics. Lol.

Ladies,

Your Drooling Dumbfhuqktitude,is simply HILARIOUS...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?





Bless your hearts for trying.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

While you’re making stupid Leupold videos, I’m killing with them. Try harder.

Peter Puffer,

Kudos on Reupold being good enough,in your high fenced/flat landing "Adventures"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,for TRYING.



Hint.

Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Hahaha ... this is great.. Welcome to the fore and I love the pic's....

Since none of the Leupold scopes I have owned adjusted as advertised. It is a joke to use any kind of system that involves dialing. It would be a fools errand to buy a custom turret for a scope that the dials don't track like expected. I am certain from what I read that other people are experiencing the same.

I surrender.
Stop with the dumb videos. And I’ll stop with dead things killed through a CDS Leupold.
From behind a high fence? Somewhere…

Yeah they don’t track but somehow things die. Magic!

Sweetheart,

Kudos on your Flat Landing High Fenced Adventures,being sedate enough for Reupold...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some,as you read the cliff notes. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!............

Awesome pic, and buck!

Congrats on showing some restraint on the videos produced from your stinky basement
Leupold CDS for the win!

Nice! What fer rifle is that? A Kimber?

Model 70. Like a Kimber but made for a man.

Welcome to the discussion RemPete.

Back when Lil Fish actually killed a few small bucks and kelp feeding bears he loved Leupold.

[Linked Image]

Now that he can not kill shit the love for asian built optics fuels his fever dreams.

It's a sorid tale but happens all to frequently.

Leupold delivers.

Nice buck!!

Good looking rifle/scope setup too.

Operator error. Lol


Still hasn't found "the one".

Maybe if the CCP pimp bought better optics, she/he/it could find a rifle that shot minute of iceberg.

Laffin.

Between the chainsaw arm tremors, crossed eyes, and perpetual hangover, no rifle or optic can shine. Hint

Ladies,

Pardon reality...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?



Bless your hearts for TRYING.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................

Is someone trapped in a sporting goods store, asking for help?

To you guys using CDS on Leupold VX5 HD scopes - has anybody ever had the reticle show "growths". Like little mushrooms on the stadia?

I send a 2-10x42 VX5HD into Leupold with this issue and got the scope exchanged to a new one. Now, after about 4 years, this also shows this "feature".

Problem is - I can not get it to show up on photographs, but it is unnervingly noticeable to the eye.

Are others having this problem? Thanks.

I’ve owned dozens of leupolds (mostly vari-X-IIIs), and only 1, reliably tracked…. When obtainable at a reasonable price, they are a great set and forget scope given the quality optics/weight.

I still haven't figured out what posting pictures of Leupolds with dead animals has to do with the scopes working correctly. Plenty of animals become dead every year with blister pack Tascos or cheapo bore-sighted package rifles. Doesn't mean the scopes track correctly or hold zero.

yes, sent in a 3-15x44. Mechanically there was no issues. Had some fuzz on the reticle, looked like magnetic debris clinging to the reticle. So, waited till off season and sent it in. They promptly replaced the reticle. Apparently, there was an issue with the reticles doing this, but never was an official "recall". They fix them as they are sent in.

Sent in another of the same that had some specs in the image that were not in the reticle. Could be seen clearly from the objective end, so probably something on a lens. They will inspect, clean, and return it. Again, mechanically sound, and no issues with tracking, or zero retention.

It is strange they replaced the whole scope for you instead of servicing. Usually they only replace older models that they don't service any longer.

Yes it is because of faulty scopes that I accidentally kill a hundred animals a year. Does anyone on the internet hunt anymore?

Sorry to hear about your micro penis. There are surgeries for that nowadays, and they might even rectify overcompensation through application of back window stickers.

Thanks for the tip.
Apparently you shoot a kimber. Does your husband hunt too?

Exactly. Minute of deer means nothing.

The HILARITY of Mechanics,never wanes. Hint.

Reupold can't even begin to hang. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

minute of deer? means nothing? there's a lot of walls and freezers that you will continually lose that argument against lol, saw minute of nice tracking into 750 yards on steel sheep gong in this thread that is already a good bit further than 'hunting' is and even long range hunting...into elr target ranges, tracking like a champ and better than minute of deer

anyway, does big stick need rescuing? from isolated sporting good store or a basement? and good point...does he hunt? still waiting to hear his definition for that, and long range hunting also...

the perspective that was missing is now starting to show itself and some freaking hilarious posts too (Kimber....haha, relax Kimber guy that was funny, who can't take that kind of joke?)

lets have those definitions? when I was running leupold my test shots out to 930 yards and back to zero were bang on and also had no issues killing things, big game to 520 and coyotes to 620....so that's what I'm trying to get aired out here, did I just miss a window of quality control issues or what? I never had issues before trijicon phase (which I was after illuminated dot, more intuitive for the kids getting into the game), and so I'm now into some lpvo love and 308 builds so I'll be trying trijicon tr24/25 and vx5hd cds and vx3hd cds...will keep an eye peeled for whatever it is they are talking about here over the winter

Given that the purpose of a scope on a hunting rifle is to aid in killing animals, how do you fault a scope that zeroed and held zero well enough to do its job?

A valid point that is lost on some people. The fans like to talk about LDS, but it goes both ways.

That's a pretty goddam dumb comment. When minute of deer results in dead deer, what's the problem?

I think point of reasonability for task at hand is lost on a certain group of obsessionists and merchants that shoot elr and sell elr gear somehow don't equate the difference between that and hunting/long range hunting?

So we're saying there is no element of trying to steal some of that leupold pie is going on in all this lds? Ok...sure

“Working correctly” is a relative term. Works correctly given the user’s requirements? Works correctly compared to the competition? These debates usually revolve around those two questions, but of course, consensus is never achieved because requirements and experiences vary widely.

I may have to come back here and eat my words after this winter lol, but stimulating some better perspective beforehand, and odds are in my favour as I already have tons of experience with leupold without issues so we shall see. Will see if they are still top hunting options or not.

yes, how bout works correctly for task at hand? hunting...do you use scopes built for elr military or competition, built like piano vs scopes built like house for 0-600 yard without all the extra fuss required for other things? even though they have gone with precision to way further than that for me, and others here in this thread too

there is no better turret for hunting than the cds-zl type, especially if you have it middled to your elevation/temp ranges and in speed dial format to yards, even with a 5000' gap in elevation and way below freezing to summer hot day temps you might see a difference of 2 clicks of mental corrections required at 600 that will still land you in a big game kill zone (maybe scare a coyote at worst case) even if you don't do them....and those are the least likely timeframes you need to use them anyway, you're locked on a mpbr zero for where 95% of hunting happens anyway, then the kiss solution for mpbr to 600 is sure seeming very reliable by those using them,

these ffp x-mas trees and mil clicks are an absolute roll on the floor bust yer gut joke when sold as hunting gear

Because a scope doesn't have to be zeroed or hold zero to still kill animals. I see hunters every year who have trouble keeping a 6" group at 100 yards, whether due to poor shooting from recoil sensitivity, inability to see clearly, tremors, etc. Sometimes they have scope related problems as well, but that can be hard to discern when they're doing well to keep their bullets within a deer vital size target. So for them, "zero" is a rather loose term. Any yet those folks still kill game. Every year.

There are enough variables without the scope being one.

DF

I have High Master cards for both NRA long range and mid range competition, so I like to think I shoot at least OK. I have not noticed tracking issues with my 2.5x8 converted to CDS attributable to the scope. I have not shot it past 600 yards. I did have some tracking issues with that rifle once, but they were due to a scope base. I tend to think scopes, or barrels are always the first to be blamed for poor shooting form.

Spend more time killing, less time on the internet causing pretend problems and you will see that there in no better riflescope for hunting then a Leupold. Steel ringers and velcro patch players need not apply.

lmao, savage

Exactly! Everyone has a different idea of "good enough", plus if an individual has yet to experience a product failure (whether because of chance, limited use, or their own observations aren't precise enough to notice) they often tend towards trusting their own findings, even if evidence from others is contrary to their own.

The 90s called. They want their homophobia back, along with their idea that Leupolds were still functional scopes.

No kidding. Tacticool and virtual long range shooters have it figured out though. LOL.

Two clicks on a 0.1 mil scope at 600 yards is 4.5 inches. That would put the center of your 600-yard group way out on the edge of the kill zone. If you could hit a 1 MOA target on demand at 600 and were shooting at an animal with a 10-inch kill zone and were off 2 clicks your 600-yard group would have more area outside of the kill zone than within.

edited to add: Actually, I was off a little. Area of 6" circle = 28.3 in^2. Overlapping area is 15.2 in^2, area remaining is 13 in^2 (rounded), so it's actually around 54% of the hit area inside the kill zone. Slightly higher than I guessed, still not great.

Personal experience trumps the internet, all day, every day.

Firth
Maybe take it out to 1200 yards to prove your point a bit better.

Dead animals=works correctly for killing animals.

This NF was replaced with a 4.5-14 CDS. It now sits in my gun room with a bunch of other over priced gun junk I thought would be better because it was more expensive. Wrong.
Leupold? Right!

I'll take that NF junk off your hands.

I’m going to learn how to do a YouTube video and use it to lap my rings. I’m just waiting for my basement to develop the appropriate, through the internet, odour.

They work pretty good, IME.

Until they don’t.

Then there’s always Beaverton.

DF

Every brand has faiures, every brand is a mechanical device, and is prone to incorrect usage, abuse, etc, etc, etc.

Some just have to wait 6+ months to be sent to Europe for repair, or to wait till another cargo ship comes in from China with a warranty replacement scope.

Interesting that so many put their faith in a scope that the company won't even repair. They offer replacements only, if they are available. By definition, a throw away scope. To each his own. LOL

Though likely not at equal rates, IME and observation.

These threads make me chuckle. There is zero chance of objective conversation on this topic, with affirmative and negative LDS on full display.

You see there are people that chuckle and those that kill game in quantity. It’s a lot easier to do one on the internet.

No kidding. Anyone in the know.... would not say L is better than NF. I just had a conversation about that with a world champion rifle shooter... we said the same thing...

Anyone in the know knows that a hunter has very little in common with a champion rifle shooter. I don’t stick my nose in with those wearing tight spandex sponsor shirts. But they sure like to pretend to know how to kill animals. Just because they own a gun.

There have been lots of em here, but this particular thread is a spectacular display of lunacy.

A Leupold over Nightforce? Said no one sane ever.

And I’ve never shot a competition or done anything other than hunt, or practice for hunting, in my life. I just like reliable stuff.

I missed a couple times this summer. Not once did I blame my gear. Or wish it was more expensive.

"Working Correctly" means tracking consistently and measurably both up/down, left/right and not losing zero under a variety of stresses. That has nothing to do with dead animals, anymore than an aircraft "working correctly" has anything to do with your trip to Disney Land.

No one wants Leupold's to "work correctly" more than me. I like their weight, sizing, glass, aesthetics, eye relief, and the fact they're "mostly" made in the USA. I've got probably a dozen on various rifles and in the closet.

But the sad truth is they don't work consistently. They have a chit erector system, wandering zero's, inconsistent tracking, etc. Frankly, I've overlooked their shortcomings for years, but I'm not offended when someone points out their failings because I've been aware of them long before the internet started banging on them. I don't shoot or hunt enough any more that it makes that much of a difference. But if I drew a once-in-a-lifetime sheep tag here in Montana, I can assure you my rifle WILL NOT have a Leupold anything on top.

I really don't get all the self worth tied up in something as stupid as shooting gear...

Brad makes some good points.

I have and use Leupolds.

Seems the old friction adjusted, set and forget ones, have stood the test of time, fixed power especially.

Glass quality may not be as good as the newer ones, but they’re generally bullet proof. Have never sent one of those to Beaverton. Fewer parts I guess.

If you won’t admit there may be a problem, you’ll never fix it.

I’ve largely moved to other brands.

DF

Internet gear gossip will continue to propagate and blow out of proportion issues that influence mostly keyboard hunters. Spend more! Shoot more!! Whatever floats your boat. I’ll take my “chit” and hunt something down with confidence.

We will disagree on this. My belief is that the purpose of the scope is to allow the shooter to hit the intended target. Provided that it does that, it works correctly.

I have quit buying them. I quit when the goddam Leupold idiot came on here, told us we didn't know what we were talking about and told us that we needed to knock on the turrets to get the adjustments to take.

You quit buying them because someone on the internet said something? Seems unreasonable. But predictable.

That someone Paul is referring to… was a representative from Leupold.

Best make a bowl of popcorn…

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../leupold-livestream-details#Post13958935

There are also those that kill game in quantity, but don't feel the need to flash it all over the Internet.

Ok I’ll stop chuckles.

It was two Leupold reps who did a webcast on this forum to address the group over the growing concerns expressed here and all across the internet.

You are showing your ignorance. Quit while you’re ahead (in your own mind).

We need to resurrect that vid! So shameful.

Leupold over Nightforce, all day every day.

Shall we compare results?

I switched from Leupold to NF because I had a couple of Leupolds go titz up at inopportune times…but a tip of the cap to Peters for his hunting successes.

Difficult to argue with those kind of results.

Dave

I agree. I haven't bought a new Leupy in quite a while, though I still use a few of them successfully. It is rather humorous though, for a group to bash "brand x", while loads of hunters continue to crush game consistently with the same "brand x". It's pretty hard to argue with results.

Couldn’t agree more. Well said, Brad.

Thanks, Ken. Then it is not only me. I will simply send in the scope once again and maybe get the "Spa-treatment" this time. Thanks again.

Now that I think about it, I killed my Arizona Desert Bighorn with my 2.5x8, before the custom shop work though... Pretty wrapped up in shooting gear, now hunt with two centerfires! This scope is on the 30-06. 😎

No where did I mention "purpose." It's self evident what a scopes purpose is. "Working correctly" is what I addressed, and an enormous part of working correctly is repeatability, so one dead animal/hit target can't be the only standard by which a scope is judged to be "working correctly."

I have a question for you scope gurus. I have 3 Leupolds that have failed in the last 2 years. I have 5. Why is it that when mine have failed they always suddenly shift 3 or 4" Left of zero at 100 yards. All of them have done that. Why left?

Interesting question. My understanding is with the clockwise left and clockwise down adjustments the internal spring is being compressed in the left and down adjustment directions and extended in the up and right directions. Failure mode for a collapsing spring would be an increased left or down impact direction. Just my first thoughts.

The image starts out inverted though so I may have that backwards on that depending on the lens arrangement. Hopefully MuleDeer or others will weigh in.

yeah, and since hunting is mpbr where 95% of it happens, and 600 is the furthest extreme example one will take under the most ideal of conditions possible as most can't read the wind better than that 2 click error...0.01% of shots there? So reasonableness comes into play, 2 clicks at the outer limit is not to worry.

oh, not the outer limit you say? uh well even from Forms on words over the the rokchute...moderate amount of hunters can kill consistently to 450 and very few from 450-600....that there is the end of long range hunting due to a variety of laws, wind being one of them, tof/animals being another, actual hunters field accuracy being another...they all coincide to give these laws regardless of the gear you drag afield or your skills at the prs competitions or range, a good many of those shooters will tell you they seem to limit themselves to 5-600 on game...yet they don't totally explain why, it is these natural laws though, and if you look at the archery hunter limits where most can kill consistently it's 50-70 yards which is same as 450-600 on rifles....so these laws govern the absolute majority of hunters and define long range hunting, anything beyond that is a tiny minuscule percentage of people who live on the end of their guns and don't have other hobbies that can take it further and its THEM that can whine and cry about needing the piano's of the world like night force....

this is the perspective that's lacking, in a hunting optics forum, not to mention, there is a component of how to take a piece of the leupold pie? vortex is the first to come along and finally do it, they had to match the warranty, and they had to give away optics to anyone who would rep them and I bet even pay guys to rep them and it took them years to become whatever it is they are now...many years, and I still wouldn't buy a single thing they make but that's another topic, so there's a combination of merchants wanting to get piece of that pie and this new PRS trend guys trying to help sell a ton of gear for that while saying it's good for hunting too...and so is it smarter to drag 1200 yard gear into field for a 600 yard game at the furthest end? or build the simplest fastest 0-600 yard option as kiss is a mandatory for fillin tags and not meeting murphy

anyhow, chew on that for a second, there is no fault in any of it, product bashing is a part it for other reasons, what percentage of that is here who knows but it's definitely a part of it, and on 'certain' forums you see this 'strategy' used on all sorts of brands to help pimp other brands instead

Because the whole world is leaning left these days????

It's the erector system failing. Either from riding around in a gun case in a vehicle, or whatever "stress" or knocks they've been subjected to. It's said a right-side knock will shift the zero left, and vice versa. Dunno.

no guru by any means but of all the failed in the same way it tells me that the same part has probably failed on all of them..
now some people will argue and I would say it depends on the model but there is definitely China imported parts.... and when it's the same part failing on all of them I would guess...

Post up pictures of these scope mounted on rifles.

Pretty sure I will be able to give you the correct answer.

I strike out every time I try to replay that video. If I was them, I’d deep six it, too. I was embarrassed for them.

DF

Have an outfitter buddy. He doesn’t totally understand ballistics, scopes, what MOA or Mils are, and long range shooting.

He has a rifle with a Leupold CDS. He understands dialing the range.

This year he killed a buck in Utah at 993 and his wife killed a buck at 850 two days ago.

And that right there perfectly explains the problem with CDS!

Is your buddy's name Aram?

Asking for a friend who's wife is looking for a large buck that was wounded in Utah.

So CDS scopes magically and automatically dope the wind for you as well. Good to know.

A wizard uses them, so what else did you expect?

+1

🦫

do you know of scopes that automatically dope the wind for you?

Well, if you follow the Fire long enough, who knows what you may learn.

Probably boils down to that computer between one's ears and how it was programmed. Of course output is a function of input.

DF

Quite obviously I was referring to the camuglia's stupid post where nobody knew anything about scopes or ballistics, etc yet managed to amazingly kill two bucks at 800+ yards.

It really is amazing, especially at their level


Point is that the CDS works, and works well


You Fucking moron

I don't own one, but I kinda doubt they got that much vertical travel.

20 MOA on the MOA versions gets to 1000ys with many common rounds using VLDs in one revolution. Many MOA CDS Leupolds are 2 revolution.

Mil based Leupolds are typically 10 mils on one rev and many, again, have multiple revs.



The retards don't understand the discussion is about the verticle tracking of Leupolds and the utlility of the CDS for elevation compensation.




Quite obviously you're a retard who does not understand CDS is only for elevation compensation due to drop at a further range than point blank.

This thread has nothing to do with compensation due to wind drift.

Rick said the Outfitter "doesn't totally understand". You confused that with someone like you and those like you "where nobody knew anything about scopes and ballistics".

It's always a bit of a suprise when someone with your admitted lack of any real world long range game shooting jumps into a thread like this spouting nonsense.

Always wrong but never in doubt.



The Wizard invented them.

Just Sayin.

LOL.....lardasssburns and homocamulglia are really kicking asss........I've culled more game animals than you two losers will in 10 lifetimes, but please continue to explain......

Good job simplifying things so that even dopes from W Tx can get it.




Oh look! A dope from W Tx has one!

She is still trying to figure out how CDS makes wind calls.

Can't make this shit up but it is funny.

JB:

Seems a lot of guys have been marking up turrets to match POI at various yardages in various ways for quite a long time before CDS was officially a thing. I engraved and had strips of medical tape on Stoney Point and M1 turrets back in the day. Made the MOA adjustments with Mil Dot reticle a little more user friendly.

Or are you referring to a part of the process of cutting a CDS dial, etc, on which you had a proprietary influence?

In any case, you seem to enjoy movie inspired gifs and memes, so here's one for you:

Speaking of trying to keep up......I dumbed it down so even a lardaass drunk like yourself could follow along....or so I thought. Homocamuglia whiffed as well. The only thing you invented was how to bankrupt every company you've worked for. Got any pics of Thanksgiving with your family?

LOL.

Don't try and blame your family for you failings at hunting.

I do have pictures of Leupolds with custom turrets before Leupold ever sold any CDS turrets.

I see rehabilitation , has failed again.

That's to bad. A few here were hoping you could get over your addiction to gay sex.

Anyhow, now we all know why you don't add anything to shooting or hunting threads.

No doubt.....and about 150lbs ago. Pretty bad when your own family knows your a loser. His Thanksgiving day photo is a selfie.

LOL.

Rick and I stomped your stupid azz so hard now all you want to talk about is Thanksgivings Day pictures in the optic forum.

LOL.....the NMfag and lardassBurns are a formidable duo! Have someone read this to you real slowly.......



Swig another bottle of Nyquil and try real hard to understand why I said this.......you can do it.

Par for the course for a toxic, sociopathic campfire poster.






Oh look!

There’s one now!

You and Burnsx need to go give your wife (boyfriend in your case) and kids a big hug. Burns, only thing you "own" is a size 48x30 pair of elastic waistband pants.

How bad is the azz kicking in a thread about Leupold CDS that a girl figures her only play is slide the topic to Thanksgiving.

Did you figure it out yet? You can do it, I promise.



Swig another bottle of Nyquil and try real hard to understand why I said this.......you can do it.

It's because you're a bloviating idiot with a sour attitude who comes to 24hr CF to bitch and whine.

Strike two.......

.

hey next time you go shoot shotguns and Baxter Springs Kansas area you know Claythorn you just let me know I'll meet you there you might very well kick my ass and shooting shotguns so we'll see how you run your [bleep] mouth to me in person...

LOL.

Nobody is even talking to your dumb azz.

LOLOLOLOL

looks like we got two drunk homos just stirring up [bleep]. that's all they know is had a twizzle [bleep]

LOL.

Bet these quotes might be used a few times in the future.

lots of assumptions made about the 900 yard muley dial ups with cds, does anyone actually have all the data and what the wind was doing? or in this case...maybe not doing?

some mornings are pretty calm, some light snow falls are dead calm...any time of day, some evenings calm to glass the waters, anyhow...if one is smart enough to have an elevation solution simplified to kiss (er I mean hunting) principal then that might free up a bit of grey matter to understand the actual hard part of the game...wind, and what those limits may be, for said example he may have been smart enough to know those shots are only doable without wind, the more of it, the shorter you dial, but we do actually get calm where you can run that turret up and barely lean into the wind if at all...

there's also spotter through spotting scope, not my game but nothing says a spotter wasn't calling the initial shots for wind holds, the game will likely stick around at those distances, prs guys love this technique lol, send those sighters, again...aren't we all making assumptions haha

can't kill anything if you don't shoot at it

it helps to throw up a 'curtain of lead', too......

there is always a prayer, when there is lead in the air....

Haha excellent

You think it's a scope mount issue? I had one do this while checking zero this past September.

This rifle's zero hasn't changed for probably 20 years, and then 3" left. It's a Mark 4 LR/T if that makes any difference. Badger Ordnance rings/rail, so I don't think it's a mount issue for this rifle.