What do you guys think of Butler Creek scope caps???

Have them on every scope I have my .02

they work fine IME. they're also about all you can buy locally anymore.

They're great,I'ce got them on all 12 of my rifles.

They work, but i dont use them anymore....just a bikini till i get where i am going then nothing

I use them on all my scopes. Used the bikini cover but not anymore. Scope caps are quicker for me and I don't lose them!

+1

BM

+2

Best Regards

Can't think of a scope I own that doesn't sport them. Course 15'+ rain a year makes them a necessity.........

There OK, but the ones Leupold makes are way nicer. The BC caps will have a "pop" sound if you open them too fast. The Leupold ones are dead quiet, but then again, only fit the new Leupold scopes. I uae the BC caps on my other scopes. There pretty much the only game in town

Semi-useless--like all the other Yuppie Flippie Uppie scope covers..........Storm Queen scope covers are the best thing I've seen or used so far.


Casey

The solid Butler Creeks are on all of my hunting rifles. They're helpful during moisture but invaluable in keeping grit off the glass and it's very expensive coatings.

Alpine, can you provide a reference or contact for the Storm Queens?

I have a set on every scope that I own.

+1

+2

I like them primarily to keep foreign objects from scratching the lenses as well as keeping out dust when riding on ATV's.

Yep Casey, they don't work worth a [bleep] in our rain forest. Nor does the 223AI or Barnes X.....

The Butler Creek caps are not for left handed rifles. The projection can and will interfere with bolt work.

It's Bikini covers for this boy. If I lose one, it's $6.00. If the Butler Creek keeps me from killing an elk, it's a year of buying beef. And I like elk a lot more than beef.

Ditto - and if you lose one, spares are cheap and should accompany every trip anyway.

If it's rainin', they stay on till I need them off, otherwise, protects quite effectively from rain, dust, snow and other chit that can degrade the "picture" or actually damage the glass.

Cheap, quick and quiet.....works for me.

I have them on all my rifles. I would say it's a necessity for me.

Did the bikini thing, and it worked fine, but they would get lost a lot, and occasionally snagged on willows, etc.

I also don�t ever use the rear one, the one with the red button, instead using two front ones, the flip open kind, for both the objective and the eyepiece end.

I've got BC caps on most of my scopes. When its not raining I leave the caps open, if its raining thier closed. I used those Bikini covers for a few years but I lost al least a couple of them every year.

Jamie

I use the see-thru caps on all my scopes as I have a terrible time with anything that isn't fastened... however, my loss is your gain and if you are up in the high-country of Colorado and find one of the many bikinis I have lost up there -- you are WELCOME!

Anyway, they work for me and are better for quick target acquisition than anything else I have found.

Mark

You're telling me!--but I figured that out before you moved there...........

Casey

I like the see thru ones that just have the tab on the side. Don't like the solid ones with the push button as you can't shoot in a pinch. I have twice had to take game without enough time to flip the caps open, the see thru feature saved the day. If I had to take 2 extra seconds to flip them open , no game would have gone down.

Also gives me an added level of comfort during snow, rain, and hail and on the quad with mud flying everywhere.

I've used them a bunch. They are fine most of the time, but in all-day rain, the lenses get wet anyway, which is frustrating and could be a problem. Many's the time I've flipped 'em open after hours in the drizzle to find... wet, fogged lenses. Not good.

The Leupold ones are much more expensive and work much better but only fit recent Loopy scopes.

-jeff

I don't deal with too much precipitation like Jeff mentioned above, but mine have kept my lenses pretty clear while hunting and shooting in CO. I think I like them because of convenience more than anything.

I think they'd be great in CO. They just are not great in all-day drizzle.

-jeff

The visual just doesn't do it....

-1 on the visual!!!




George

That's was good.

stumpy

Once you learn how,it is easy to flip up the covers as you shoulder your rifle.It takes no extra time at all to do this.

True fact! It's part of the raising of the rifle, for me.

-jeff

I've broken off 4 or so of the red push things this year alone. I have them on all my rifles.

Ah...but there is no need to have to learn to flip them open while raising the rifle when you have the see thru ones. One less thing to worry about. Also every situation is different and I don't buy the fact that one can do it every single time and in every situation that may arise. Each animal and situation is completely different.

But ugh, the optical quality of the see-through is horrendous! MIne are anyway, all dirty and scratched up... seems like it's always low-light when I'm shootin' deer and those flip-ups pretty much HAVE to get flipped up...

The Loopy covers, see through or not (not), are far superior. And way, way more money, too.

-jeff

You're right about that, it's not like looking thru glass. I don't like to have to shoot with them closed but at least it's possible if you must. It's a just in a pinch type thing. If they are solid color then for sure you can't shoot unless you pop them open and in the heat of the moment when you jump an animal there's just no time.

The flipping of the covers and chambering a round is almost a conditioned response that takes very little time.

To each their own I say.

Yep, and I don't even hunt with a round in the chamber, bet that would snap ya..........

Don't worry about rain much here. Maybe snow, but usually dust!

Nah, you've just never been in the same situations as me . If it hasn't happened yet it will lead to a missed opportunity one day.

Dude, I can handle a 'missed opportunity' as opposed to a bullet in the head.....

What situations might they be?

No round in the chamber!? Wow.

Not me. The way I typically kill blacktail in no way would allow the chambering of a round...

As 358T says, to each their own.

-jeff

SH, he as referring, I think, to missing opportunities 'cause of having "solid" scope covers...

Bullet in the head must mean you don't hunt with others who have a round in the chamber?

-jeff

Don't have a single pard, including myself, that hunts with one in the chamber.

Never had an issue chambering a round, flipping covers and dropping the hammer in a fluid motion. Course I've been tying my own shoes since a very early age also.....

I also don't hunt with me alone and a round in the chamber. One can go from flat footed to upside down in a hurry around here.

Whatever works! I doubt that at least a couple of my blacktail bucks could have been killed by someone who had to chamber a round, but then again maybe you don't share my limitations in that regard. Or there's more deer around up there. Sometimes, for me, even taking the safety off is borderline too noisy. But then I am hunting in very close quarters.

Hey- only 4 months 2 weeks 3 days until twins in Vegas, man!

-jeff

why don't you just use a shotgun if you are in such tight quarters? You ever worry about shooting some dude with that style of hunting?

30 yards away at the most (I'll laser it this weekend), looking straight at me. I chambered a round, popped up the Marbles and threw one into his shoulder.



Missed opportunity, we are only talking about deer here.

For me the lens covers are opened as I shoulder the rifle regardless of the situation.It is second nature now and requires no extra effort at all.Then again if a person lacks co-ordination,it may be awkward for them to do something else as they shoulder their rifle.Besides,I don't buy good optics to look through cheap plastic covers.

Are you serious? Are you seriously questioning the idea of hunting with a round in the chamber?

Dude...

-jeff

...and besides, what good would a shotgun do (in your harebrained scenario where it's dangerous for me to have a round in the chamber) anyway?

-jeff

Dude, having one in the chamber whilst hunting is just an odd thing for me to do anymore. It has been many a year since I hunted with one in the chamber, sans a ML or shotgun for turkey hunting.

If I fellow is sitting still (blind etc) and feels the need to have one chambered ok, but I just don't believe in having one chambered whilst moving. NONE of the folks I know WELL that hunt keep one chambered.

So the loaded chamber folks are as odd to me as non-hunters.

and more dangerous.

I was being sarcastic about the shotgun. This has been discussed plenty of times before you showed up. Use the "search" feature and learn something.

i like them..only gripe is the bump the bill of my ball cap when I lean into a rifle..maybe my poor technique..but works for me

Boy, you Alaska guys are just CHARMING on a Friday night!

Sheesh.

Most of us hunt with a round in the chamber. You want to tilt at that windmill, go right ahead but it's pretty silly.

-jeff

Indeed, there are some guys who shouldn't be walking around loaded.....or one in the chamber

I carry hot--always have.

Casey

Just this monday I was in a ferry terminal that had a good number of people in it. A group was checking in at the drive in window and I was at the counter. One of the guys in the group at the window was messing with his rifle and it discharged a mere 20ft away from me. Scared most everybody in the terminal and I consider myself lucky to not have taken a hunting round to the face.

The gent whose rifle discharged looked nice and experienced. I'm sure he had done whatever he did a thousand times before without a discharge. But, [bleep] do/can happen when you have a hot rifle.

If you think charging through the woods taking snap shots at whatever jumps up is smart, please stay the [bleep] away from me.

Calvin...

Boy do you have a bee in your bonnet.

I don't think charging through the woods taking snap shots at whatever jumps up is smart, so just stop implying that I and the other 90+ percent of hunters who carry hot are bozo's, please. You are being deliberatly provocative for reasons of your own- that a YOU problem, not a me problem, and if you think you can isult your way into winning this debate, think again. Whether a person carries hot or not has NOTHING to do with whether they would do that- take snap shots at whatever moves- NOTHING. Use your head. It has to do with whether they are an idiot or not. An idiot can chamber a round and take snap shots at whatever moves, too.

I will do my best not to get sucked into the argumentative cesspool you are trying to create. When I say that some of the bucks I have killed would not have been taken by someone who had to chamber a round, it's not because I am taking snap shots at them. It's because I am in close proximity to them, in dense cover, and the noise that chambering a round would make would scare away the deer. Plain and simple. As I said before (if you were listening, which you are not) even the sound of the safety coming off is pretty dicey when you have a suspicious blacktail buck 20 or 30 yards away- how and where I hunt them. I have put some practice into ways of clicking (or rather, not clicking) my Model 7's safety silently because it's a significant issue. I'm sure things are different where you are. Do you realize that things are different where I am?

At the heart of this is proper gun handling. Carrying a round in the chamber while hunting is not improper gun handling.

-jeff

There is a huge difference between having a loaded gun in a vehicle,and hunting with a round in the chamber.

Really? How is that?

Argumentative cesspool? This must be the kindler gentler campfire.

As I said before, use the search feature and pull up some old threads from years back. So much knowledge is contained on this board that it is almost silly.

When I am out hunting,my intent is to shoot a game animal,so there is a reason to have a round in the chamber.When you drive up to a ferry terminal in a vehicle,is your intent to shoot something or someone?If it is:

:-) I'm just a kinder, gentler arguer I guess!

-jeff

I'm sure the fella kept a loaded rifle in the rig for the drive to the ferry so that if a buck happened to be on the side of the road, he could shoot it. The point is that hot guns can discharge while in the rig or out hunting. By simply keeping a round out of the chamber you can completely eliminate that risk.

The only way to "completely eliminate that risk" is to never load the firearm.Of course you won't shoot much game with an empty gun.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's so simple. Hunt with safety off, empty chamber. When game is spotted (even in tight cover) instinctively chamber round while ID'ing game and making sure you can make a safe shot without killing somebody. If it's safe, raise rifle while left thumb pops forward scope cap and right thumb pops rear cover. By the time the rifle reaches your shoulder you are ready to aim and shoot if it's an animal you want to take and you feel comfortable about the shot. If it's not an animal you want, simply unchamber the round and stick it back in the belly.

+1 to that..not gonna change...dont like it..dont come to Tx.

My bins wear them.

Can't fathom how 'a missed opportunity' is that big a deal, nor do I understand how one can't get a round in the chamber.

Course Texas and some other locales I'm assuming one is sitting on his arse and not navigating second growth or clear cuts, so from the arse point of view it don't seem like a problem.

To the subject at hand, watched my pard shoulder and flip caps this morning without a hint of problem. Course he don't depend on telethon money to scratch out a leaving either.......

Wow looks like I came back to a bomb going off in here. Guys..there's just no need for this. I agree with Jeff though. Just because I still hunt with a round in the chamber does not make me dangerous, sorry if you think so. There's never a round in the chamber when another human being is around me. I can see if you hunt in the wide open, then fine but I was NOT referring to hunting in the wide open spaces.I'm talking about jump shots in the thick that catch you off guard. Kinda like a rabbit flushing right before you step on him.

In my previous post I was referring to the solid color of the caps causing you to miss an opportunity for lack of time...That's all really, but if you add flipping the caps open + chambering a round after you just jumped an animal that you have 1/2 of a sec to take. You'll NEVER get that animal. Sorry. It may work for you 99% of the time but there will come a time that you will lose an opportunity and it might just be that big record that you've been after your whole life. If you are OK with that great for you. But in the end this post was started to ask for opinions on Butler Creek Caps not if you hunt with a round in the chamber or not. I gave my opinion... some of you don't agree just because you don't use what I use..OH WELL..

You can all do what you want and use what you want. I assure you there's nothing wrong with my coordination, shooting ability, or hunting methods. If you think so you are seriously mistaken. I only post when I feel like I have some info or experience to help others succeed or if I am asking for info.myself. I don't make useless attacks on others.

Good Hunting....

And as always.....To Each Their Own....

Thanks for the laugh....

Thanks for the approval...tend to be on my a.. most times and not trudging through the undergrowth.

You didn't need to mention that, it's a natural assumption.....

FWIW, my hunting is always done with round chambered, safety on, and I have used the "see-through" covers to take game--no issues, no incidents.

For me, I don't think that whether you chamber or do not chamber a round has much bearing on whether or not you are safe in the woods. Just chalk me up as one of "those" guys who was brought up under the presumption that simply holding a firearm incurred the unlimited responsibility of its use. That being said, I think the overall opinion of most hunters is do hunt by whatever means you prefer so long as it is done sincerely and SAFELY.

Sincerely don't help things much. I hear what you are saying, but one doesn't always have control of there gun in this country....

Be a responsible adult in gun handling..regardless of where you live..and I forgive your arrogance. This gent had no problem with the Weatherby being hot...and a Nosler coming his way

I've taken 5 teenagers hunting this fall. When I tell them not to chamber a round until they are ready to shoot they all said they never hunted with a loaded gun. One even said "only an idiot would walk around with a loaded rifle".

`Nuff said.

You keep ignoring the fact that it takes NO EXTRA TIME to flip open the lens caps,if you open them as you shoulder the rifle.I will add that it is easier to quickly open the solid rear lens cover using your thumb on the red push button,than it is to open the rear see through lens that you must pull open with a finger.

Dude, you try being responsible when you're ass over teakettle....

When you are bugling and a bull elk suddenly appears at 20 yards staring right at you,your chances of cycling the bolt to chamber a round without having the noise or movement spook it are extremely low.

Guess bow hunters is [bleep].........grin

If the elk sees them first they are.Try drawing on a bull at 20 yards when he is looking straight at you.And cycling a bolt action makes much more noise that drawing a bow.

Do you have one in the chamber whilst walking to said bugling spot?

When I hunt with a call, I get into position, chamber a round, open scope covers, (if it's not raining) and prop my rifle up on my shooting sticks in the direction I think the buck will come from. If I'm hunting with somebody else, they set up facing a different direction. When we are all set up I call. If no bucks show up, I unchamber the round and sneak to my next calling spot.

Yes I do,since I bugle then walk as quiet as possible to another spot,then bugle,then another spot and so on.As such,I could spot at bull at any time.A bull that is searching out the source of the bugling is at full alert and any noise or excess movement could easily spook him.

What happens if he spots you whilst walking?


I guess elk is just to smart for me, I'll stick with dumb critters that allow me to chamber a round before shooting.

I'm also having trouble wrapping my mind around how chambering a round is more movement than walking.

Must be using a M70............

it's good entertainment for a day stuck inside..

Just made tater-tot casserole.

5 pounds of venison browned
1 onion
2 big cans of cream of mushroom soup
1 BIG bag of tater tots
shredded cheese

Mix all together in a BIG ass pan, cook for about 1 hour. Put cheese on top for the last 15 minutes.

We also skinned 2 deer today, yep a good day.

Nice recipe, finally something interesting in this thread

It's perfect GUY food, good for breakfast also...

Though it does give a man some serious gas, that might [bleep] up the chance at a bugling elk......

Yes a person will spook some game that sees you walking,but you will spook game by cycling a bolt as well.I posted movement and noise since both are important,but you seem to be ignoring the noise factor.The mechanical noises made by cycling a bolt are much more alarming to animals than walking as silently as possible.You can often hear animals walking in the forest,but you don't hear them making mechanical noises like a bolt being cycled.

I've never heard a woman say "I don't care about money" that don't mean it would frighten me, well maybe it would.....

I'm assuming the safety and flip up scope covers make no noise.

Nice! My mom made something similar but she put green beans in it also.

I'm dreaming of ways to spend money.. Days inside on the computer kill the pocketbook! I'm thinking of trying these for all my salmon/halibut fishing next year. I want one rod that does it all. With a high speed Shimano Trinidad reel with braid I think I can do it. I put 91 kings in my skiff last year on my days off from charter fishing and aim for 150 this year. King Salmon are what gets me going...

I'd have to hold one first.

A lot less than cycling a bolt action.

Ahhhhhhh, but it is noise, and that ain't NATURAL noise for elks I assume?

Or maybe they are use to the safety, scope cover, twist 90 degrees left to shoot noise, movement etc....

Had a client show up with some Trevala rods last year. Very impressive. He caught kings, lingcod, and halibut all on the 5ft model using butterfly jigs. Strongest rod I've ever seen. He was cranking up halibut from 400ft of water with it. I was shielding my eyes expecting the rod to break from how hard he was leaning on it. I want one slightly longer for the downriggers, although length isn't that important with a high speed reel.

Well I am just going to admit that unlike you,I am not perfect,so I can't walk, cycle a round or take off the safety in complete silence.As such,I will simply try to make as little movement and noise as I possibly can as I hunt as safely as possible with a round in the chamber.As for perfect people like you that can chamber a round with no noise or movement,feel free to hunt with an empty chamber.

Steelhead and Calvin see an animal, chamber a round while raising the rifle (with the safety OFF in Calvin's case if I remember right) point the gun at the deer, and shoot it. If they don't shoot they must manipulate the rifle to get back to their obsessive-compulsive virginal state of unloadedness. :-)

Me and most other people see an animal, raise the rifle, pop off the safety if it's a shooter, and shoot the animal. If not, we lower the rifle and check the safety.

Since so many accidents happen while people are manipulating their firearms, I think the former approach is MORE dangerous- you have some unsafe bozo fiddling with his rifle loading and unloading it all the time? Bad... bad... bad.

I'm only getting insulting because, hey, that appears to be the game we are playing with our bored Alaskan friends here- insult the other guy's ability to handle a rifle safely.

In the end, I would MUCH rather hunt with a safe gun handler, such as myself, with a round in the chamber, than with an unsafe gun handler without a round in the chamber. Because, in the course of the day, that unsafe gun handler WILL end up chambering a round or two and then he has this loaded rifle, safety off, and now has to get that SUPER DANGEROUS BOMB of a round out of the chamber. Oh no! It could go off at any time! Why, he could slip on the gnarly Alaskan terrain, on which he is hiking oh so manfully, and somehow the mechanical safety ENGINEERED INTO HIS RIFLE by lawsuit-concious riflemakers could fail AND somehow the rifle could go off. It's just too terrifying to imagine. I'd just stay home or sit on my arse in Texas.

You guys choosing to hunt empty is fine; I don't care. It wouldn't work for me and if you don't see that, that's just your lack of experience with hunting in other areas. However, you guys openly stating that we are unsafe and poor gun handlers for hunting with a round in the chamber are full of it!

Since this is like debating the existance of God, in other words POINTLESS and everybody already has their mind made up.. that's all I've got to say on the subject.

Nice recipe, by the way, Steelhead!

-jeff

Ok, tell me about the elk at 20 yards that you attempted to chamber a round on?

I'm not sure why it is so difficult for folks to understand that in ROUGH country you don't always have control of your weapon.

I'm not suggesting that you aren't an unsafe gun handler, but I am saying you are an IDIOT if you believe that one can NEVER fall whilst navigating real estate.

That's all!

Are you 10 years old?

I agree,I see no point to continuing this thread.The two holier than thou individuals will just have to find some other way to amuse themselves,although it probably won't take much. .

What isn't amusing about a guy who shoots in low light, tight quarters, at things that jump up, can't get flip-ups to work in drizzle, scares off deer by clicking the safety, doesn't have time to chamber a round, and is baffled by the complexity of unchambering a round?

If I was PERFECT I would hunt with a hot chamber, but I willingly admit to not being perfect.

Trust me, fools ain't amusing......

If I had a good camera I'd post a pic of that beautiful 25-284 I bought from CAS. Paint is chipped from the stock and I've rubbed the cerekote from the bbl in 4 or 5 different places. Clear cuts ain't easy and I'm surprised I haven't broke a leg yet.

That is irrevelant.






Just because you're unable to hunt in the rough stuff doesn't mean I don't know how. Besides, your language on a public forum tells me you're probably not the sharpest guy out in the woods to begin with--you're a candidate to carry unloaded.....completely unloaded.

As a deer and elk guide I am keenly aware of the other guy.......

Casey

I almost get teary eyed when I think of the Campfire I joined back in 03. It was sooo good and I learned so much.

What is the worse thing that can happen if navigating rough country with one in the chamber?

What is the worse thing that can happen if navigating rough country without one in the chamber?

I was taught to carry a round in the chamber, my dad does, and as far as I know his hunting cronys still do.

Jumpshooting elk in the elk jungles is something I grew up doing. Interestingly, when I started guiding in the 80's, I assumed most of the eastern hunters would be familiar with hunting the thick stuff.

But I soon realized that most people tend to avoid heavy timber, including the clients I guided. They really weren't prepared to go into the spruce/fir jungles and dig the elk out (even most folks in the west aren't). For most guys I guide, this is their first, or second, or maybe third trip "out west". When elk bust, they can sound like a herd of T-Rex's charging through the timber--and I've had clients literally take a step back

Going into the elk jungles can/is one of the most successful ways to bag an elk. And growing up on a ranch, babysitting cattle in the hills, I was able to spend a lot of time in elk country. As soon as the shooting starts, elk tend to go to refuges and/or go to ground--which means private land or the hellholes or the elk jungles or all of it combined......

Being able to ID the critter you're after, flip off the STORM QUEEN scope covers, bring the rifle to my shoulder and flip off the safety all in one motion, find the critter in the scope with one eye while finding a shooting lane with the other eye, and making a GOOD shot on a elk......allows me to be successful while everybody else is sitting on the hillside with their bizillion dollar glass waiting for the elk to never appear (elk ain't stupid).

--This is one reason I am a fan of Leupys long eye relief.

--This is why I still advocate scopes that have a low power setting.

--A Safari Sling has made it even quicker to bring the rifle to bear.

--This is why I prefer tang safetys.

--That's why I prefer 22 inch barrels to longer ones.

--And why I prefer a middlin' to mild recoiling rifle.

--At 6'-1" I cut my stocks LOP closer to a youth LOP than an adult size--it makes for a lot quicker handling rifle, and if the butt doesn't land squarely on my shoulder, a milder recoiling rig with a Decellerator doesn't leave a bruise on your bicep

--Oh, and that's why I carry hot

In true Steelhead fashion, is there anybody I missed offending?

Casey

Let me call my mom and check with her, be right back...

To suggest that carrying a loaded rifle is safer than carrying an unloaded rifle ought to render the author of that pearl of wisdom completely irrelevant in any argument about any subject.

Facts are facts, and rifles with a round in the chamber can discharge. Rifles with an empty chamber cannot discharge. If safety is one's primary concern, then he hunts with an empty chamber. Making the decision to hunt with a round in the chamber indicates that something besides safety is the primary concern.

There is a big difference between eliminating the possibility of an accidental discharge and reducing the likelihood of said discharge. Eliminating unnecessary risks is sound policy in my book. There isn't a deer walking the planet today that is worth blowing a friend's head off, nor spilling my brains on the mountain over.

That said, Jeff, you have a profound misconception of proper rifle handling safety. You point out that Calvin hunts with his safety off, yet fail to grasp that he hunts with an empty chamber, rendering the safety meaningless.

Further, a cardinal rule of safety is that you NEVER level your rifle at ANYTHING unless you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of your target:



Pointing a hot rifle (hell, even an unloaded rifle) at a target you are unsure of breaks the most fundamental rule of firearm safety. Perhaps you have never heard the saying, so I will repeat it here: Never point your rifle at anything you are not 100% prepared to destroy.

Lastly, relying on any mechanical safety, even those safeties "ENGINEERED INTO (YOUR) RIFLE" is akin to trusting the hooker when she tells you that she has been tested clean. Both are poor plans for long-tern survival.

Yep, someone does get it!

What is the worst thing that can happen if you never get out of your armchair?

What is the worst thing that can happen if you never get into a boat?

What is the worst thing that can happen if you never go out into the field?

What is the worst thing that can happen if you never climb into a automobile?

What is the worst thing that can happen if you never have sex?

What is the worst thing that can happen if you wrap yourself in foam rubber and stay in the corner all day?



C'mon Scott, this argument has already been made a while back--even though I stayed out of that one, it didn't change my mind.

These days I am more than ever keenly aware when I'm carrying a hunting rifle because I often have a gorgeous 8 year boy tagging along.

I am safe, and arguing over carrying a round in the chamber pales in comparison to many other endeavors in this world.

Casey

Dude, so if you go head over heels on a root ball and said gun is pointing at said lad there are worse endeavors?

Gimme a break...

You better not be offending your mom........


Casey

CAS just gave me a reminder why I keep logging in here. And he can say things MUCH better than I can.

CAS being smarter than you has never been in question.........grin

You go out in your boat and it capsizes and you drown--is it better.....or I have my son and some drunk driver crosses the lane and head-on's me--should I endeavor to never drive at night?

I'm careful, I am aware of where my rifle is pointed, and I think ahead of where my rifle COULD end up pointed.

Casey

No doubt! I'm grateful for all the good info I can get.

Do you have control over another driver? Do you have control of having one in your chamber or not? Do you have control of your rifle should you stumble down a hill?

We can play these games all night, but in the end the only way to be sure that your rifle doesn't shoot someone when you don't have control over it is with an empty chamber.

My ego ain't so big as to be more than willing to acknowledge that I can't always be careful (terrian situations).

Yes, life is risk but I tend to put as much in my favor as possible. I'm assuming the lad doesn't wear a seat belt either, since I'm sure you are a CAREFUL driver?

Isn't it actually the assumption that the gun is "unloaded" that gets most folks in trouble with accidental firearm discharge?

If so, we should treat every firearm as if it is loaded and campfire brother, Steelhead, should not carry a firearm "whilst" walking in ROUGH terrain.

(Pot stirring... in progress)

What the heck is a "terrian situation"?.......


Casey

I'll play some more... why not. :-)

OK, and I have fallen and will fall again. So what? Anyone with any sense at all could look at the rifle I carried HOT all elk season, and fell with a couple times, and see that there's mechanically no way it could fire in such a situation. It was- get this! - designed that way.

-jeff

What rifle might that be?

Calvin... no offence, but what the HELL is going through your head!? You still smoking that legal weed up there or something?

YES I shoot in low light. YES I shoot and hunt in tight quarters. YES I have killed deer that jumped up. NO Butler Ck. scope covers will not keep your lenses dry in a day-long drizzle. YES I get so close to deer that the sound of the safety becomes a concern. What is wierd about any of THAT?

YES I am smart enough to know that first, my rifle and I are perfectly safe with a round chambered, and second, that in the terrain I hunt in, and the quarry I hunt, to have to chamber a round upon seeing a deer would be LUDICROUS. STUPID. IDIOTIC. and it wouldn't work very well as far as killing deer.

I think you are like the anti-gunners who say that since they couldn't handle being around a firearm without freaking out and killing someone, therefore nobody should have them. Apparantly, you are incapable of safe gun handling and therefore are insulting the rest of us, telling us we are flat-out dangerous, because YOU can't do it. Well, that's a YOU problem.

Finally, look at any modern firearm and explain to me how it could fire with the safety on, anyway. You can't.

-jeff

You are a [bleep] idiot, nuff said.

Can't imagine how any safety could fail, or how any gun could be knocked off safe when falling.

Had to keep it quoted so it didn't go anywhere.

Yeah, me and all the other guys hunting with rounds in the chamber are [bleep] idiots. Nice, Steelhead! Way to insult 90% of the hunting world, complete with some VERY safe and experienced hunters.

You are at the pinnacle of arrogance. You have something that works where you hunt- which may I point out is loaded with game- and are then projecting your holier than thou bullshit attitude on the rest of us. Come hunt where I hunt and after a few years of tag soup, the result of chambering a round for no good reason, I think you'd be carrying chambered too. Most likely, you'd give up on hunting if you had to hunt somewhere that game wasn't practically trampling you...

At any rate, this is silly. You are wrong, but you'll never admit it, and it's less amusing the more profane and insulting you get... let's argue about God or something and get truly wound up, instead of this stoopid BS.

Actually, to be clear for the OTHER folks reading this- the rational ones not just looking to amuse themselves by being a jerk- you are not wrong. Nothing wrong with carrying with an empty chamber. Where you ARE wrong is in your stance that it's not possible to hunt safely with a round in the chamber. Wrong.

-jeff

I got scared straight about ten years ago when slipping in on some elk I chambered a round and put the safety on. The herd had moved a little and I had to crawl through a thicket and expected to see them any second. I glanced down and noticed my safety had been pushed into the "FIRE" position while crawling through the brush. I literally felt sick thinking what could have happened.

For some strange reason, accidents are always unexpected.

All I can say is wow. I think they make medication for that....

Calvin, I quoted it for you (and Steelhead, since he's having so much fun with it)... would you care to pick this apart and explain what the problems are? Since I'm insane and you are a genius, and all that. Here it is:

Jeff Olsen says:

"YES I shoot in low light. YES I shoot and hunt in tight quarters. YES I have killed deer that jumped up. NO Butler Ck. scope covers will not keep your lenses dry in a day-long drizzle. YES I get so close to deer that the sound of the safety becomes a concern. What is wierd about any of THAT?

YES I am smart enough to know that first, my rifle and I are perfectly safe with a round chambered, and second, that in the terrain I hunt in, and the quarry I hunt, to have to chamber a round upon seeing a deer would be LUDICROUS. STUPID. IDIOTIC. and it wouldn't work very well as far as killing deer."

Seriously man. Take it apart. I dare ya. You too Steelhead. Let's go!

-jeff

People don't carry cocked and locked? I don't know anyone that hunts without one in the chamber. Interesting.

I take it some of you don't carry concealed, either. Need to have one in the chamber for that. Probably WAY too dangerous.

The posts where people talk about falling or whatever with a chambered round had me rolling! Tons of people get shot that way. Toooo funny!

I wish in my years in an Airborne unit that I would have been told not to chamber a round while negotiating "rough terrain"! "Hey wait Mr. Hostile Force, don't shoot at me yet! I have to chamber a round!" Man, is there some dumb $hit posted on this board!

Here's a tip...if you don't feel safe with one in the chamber, chances are you're not. Don't do it then. I would refrain from telling other people not to chamber a round because of your inexperience, however.

Dude, deer hunting ain't life or death. Carrying with an empty chamber has nothing to do with inexperience. That fact that folks say it is as safe to carry loaded as unloaded is [bleep] funny.

How the [bleep] do you go from deer hunting to COMBAT in one sentence?

Ding, ding......

Firearms safety is firearms safety. Doesn't matter where it is. Sounds like you thought your Hunter's Safety Course was your graduation in firearm's safery. You're still in Kindergarten, bro.

Can someone be shot with an unchambered rifle?

I assume you have never taken a spill whilst hunting, do you always have full control? Do you have control of everyone around you?

You ever take a drivers course? Guess you don't need seat belts either. I know damn well you don't need a helmet.......

HOW are there so many [bleep] stupid folks on here anymore?

Can anyone acknowledge that they have fallen whilst hunting? Dropped a rifle in a fall? Knocked a safety off?

I'm assuming you agree with Jeff that a safety can't fail?

If you think a chambered firearm is the cause of AD's, you're a beginner. Falling with a firearm is always possible, but an AD with one is rare. Proper handling of your firearm prevents this. See where I'm going with this? This is beginner stuff and you're a beginner.

What did you do in the military? Apparently you weren't around firearms. I suspect they had you running the chow line or sitting behind some desk. Also, how much experience do you REALLY have with firearms? I'm not talking about buying or range trips. I'm talking about training. This stuff is toooo basic to have to explain to someone with any experience.

Also, how do you carry concealed without one in the chamber? Same concept except a lot more dangerous for the inexperienced.

Nope, seen safeties fail. I know better than to rely on them. With proper firearms handling, this is a generally a moot point.

BTW - To those that aren't comfortable with a round in chamber...nothing wrong with that. Do what you (and possibly your hunting buddies) feel safe with. Safety is what you think, not what others think.

let it go man.... in a few years folks might start to take you seriously around here again.

+1

Oh yeah...

I like BC scope caps. Got 'em on all mine. Don't care much about the way the rear one hits my cap though.

"Dude, having one in the chamber whilst hunting is just an odd thing for me to do anymore. It has been many a year since I hunted with one in the chamber, sans a ML or shotgun for turkey hunting."

Curious as to why it is unsafe to hunt with one in the chamber in a rifle, but is OK to do so when hunting turkey with a shotgun?
Why is a shotgun with one in the chamber not prone to ADs, but a hot rifle is?
Can someone explain this??

I ain't Steelhead, but I think I have a grasp on this one... I'm pretty sure a guy stays glued when hunting turkeys. It's hard to trip over a log, flip over backwards, and have a AD when your sitting down.

So is it safe to say, that when "sitting down", or "staying glued" when hunting big game with a rifle, then it is OK to have a round in the chamber?

You might want to read all the posts.

I have. Steelhead said more than once that when hunting, he does not keep one in the chamber. He mentions that if some guy sitting in a blind chooses to do so-well that is allright by him-nonetheless he said that HE does not hunt with one in the chamber-so the question I guess is directed at him. Why is it that when HE hunts, does he find it necessary to hunt without a hot one, unless he is turkey hunting? Why does he make an exception to his policy of empty chambers when turkey hunting?

Trying to figure out how to work this empty chamber thing into my Chukar and Pheasant routine. Hmmmm. Got to be a way.

Like BC caps but am currently using the Alumina RainCotes on my L.

DJR

Just curious--do you think bowhunters should also go with the keep it out of the chamber rule? Should they keep them arrows in the quiver until they are ready to shoot, or is it OK and safe for them to "keep a round in the chamber"

Bwa ha friggin' HA.

The audience will note that Mr. Calvin completely dodged the question. Why? Because obviously, hunting in low light, hunting in tight quarters, killing deer that jump up, and getting close enough to deer that even the metallic click of the safety is a concern (I do hunt with the safety on) are all perfectly normal things to do.

Oh, and my Butler Ck. scope covers do let water on the lenses after a long day in the rain.

I was 100% right and he was 100% wrong and the best he can do is another insult.

Here's another one I bet he'll dodge. The rifle that had those guys panties in a bunch, when I mentioned carrying it HOT while elk hunting and even falling a couple times, is a Browning BLR. I carried it at half-cock with the folding hammer folded forwards. I can explain that to anyone who has never messed with one, but suffice it to say that it renders the rifle mechanically unable to fire, period.

Would Steelhead or Calvin care to explain how a Browning BLR carried in such a manner could possibly go off accidentally?

-jeff

Are you a chick?

One of the dumber things I have seen posted......

Would Steelhead or Calvin care to explain how a Browning BLR carried in such a manner could possibly go off accidentally?
-jeff

It take my last post back I just found one that topped it.

Mind your business. I was asking Steelhead.

Still dodging what you said, huh?

(yawn)

-jeff

Figured that would have sent you packing....

If you want to take a tumble while hauling around a broadhead unquivered that's your business. The simple fact is it's your own stupidity that will leave you digging it out of your gut.

When your torch your rifle off and remove your pards noggin' while carrying one in the tube it's your stupidity that got him killed.

BTW good luck with the jump shooting deer, elk or whatever else with the bow let us know how that turns out.

UM Zac,

It's amazing, isn't it.

off to church boys, to repent of my sins.... Maybe God will reveal to me that hunting with a hot rifle is smart?

Calvin,

I point my rifle at DEER, when I am hunting DEER. The safety comes off if it's a shooter. I don't point my rifle at movement, sounds, or anything else.

In short I'm a grownup who practices excellent gun handling.

To go backwards a bit, it seems that you are claiming NOW that you and Steelhead hunt in the following manner, and correct me if I'm wrong: see a deer. Use your binoc's or whatever to identify if it's a shooter. At that time, and only then, you chamber a round and point it at the deer.

OK, first off, come hunt blacktail in the rainforest in central western Oregon and see how much luck you have hunting that way. Hint: none. You think a buck 30 yards away is gonna stand there while you do all that, think again. You laugh at the idea that the sound of the safety coming off could be an issue, but I'm telling you it IS. It is so quiet, and the foliage is so dense, that you won't even see the deer unless it's close, and yes that metallic click has swiveled the ears of more than one deer when I've snicked that safety off. Chamber a ROUND at that point? Forget it.

So you are basing your whole pissing match on hunting where you hunt, in the conditions you hunt in, and don't seem to be able to comprehend how things could be different anywhere else. Again, that's a YOU problem.

Second off, I don't believe you anyway when you describe how you hunt! Here's how I think you do it. You see a deer, and as you've said in earlier posts "raise the rifle in a fluid motion while chambering a round". That's a synopsis, not a direct quote; I'll go get a direct quote if you insist. So now, YOU TOO are pointing a loaded rifle at a mystery deer, with the safety off no less! Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

My point was, and remains, in the text that you quoted above... that manipulating a loaded firearm (IE, loading and unloading it) is demonstratably when a large percentage of gun accidents happen. I think it's at least debatable that your practice, as you describe it, has as many safety "holes" in it as anything else. So while I don't have a problem with you or anyone else carrying unloaded, I don't think your own hunting/gun habits are as foolproof as you seem to think.

Finally, have you handled a Browning BLR? If so, explain to me how, specifically, it could fire with the hammer in the half-cock position and folded forwards. If not, I suppose I could post some pictures and try to step you through it. Because yes, I will rely on the engineered safety built into that rifle, combined with safe gun handling practices. Browning has staked a multi-million dollar company on the safety of that design, and smarter people than you or me engineered it. So since you are saying it's not safe, prove it! Explain to me how that gun could fire in that condition, in a hard fall or otherwise.

Hint: you can't.

-jeff

Maybe he'll teach you a little humility...

-jeff

Well, since you cant mind your own business-
Steelhead posted
"Dude, I can handle a 'missed opportunity' as opposed to a bullet in the head....."
he also posted
"I also don't hunt with me alone and a round in the chamber. One can go from flat footed to upside down in a hurry around here."

This was an in answer to a "what if" question posed to him. Seems to me, that Steelhead is suggesting that he would rather carry unloaded, then risk the chance of getting one in the head. Couple this with all the talk about dropping guns, tripping, it is easy to infer that Steelhead was talking about accidentally shooting himself. If one expresses a concern of shooting oneself by tripping falling, dropping ones gun, what have you, it is certainly safe to assume that one would be concerned about stabbing himself with an arrow, by tripping, falling, dropping ones bow.
Whether or not one can inflict damage on a bystander is irrelevant-one can shoot onseself in the head, one can stab ones self with a bow. Steelhead acknowledged that even when hunting alone, he still hunts without one in the chamber-so hunting partners is irrelevant. If one is worried about shooting himself, and therefore carries a rifle empty, one could certainly assume that one would carry a bow empty also....or not, I really wanted clarification from Steelhead.

OK, UM Zac, I'll add you to the list. Explain to us how a Browning BLR, carried hot with the hammer at half-cock and folded forwards, could possibly be induced to fire.

It can't, and you can't.

-jeff

Sounds like you're hitting the bottle in the wee hours with that language......make sure all the rounds are outta' the chambers...........

Casey

so this is where all the quotes are coming from....

Jeff,

You should change your handle to "Miss Information".

Perfect.....

Calvin,

You should realize that a sure sign of someone LOSING a debate is when all they can come up with is juvenile insults.

Just FYI.

-jeff

Oh... Calvin... still waiting for you to explain how my Browning BLR could be induced to fire a round with the hammer at half-cock and folded forwards...

-------------------------------

We can, and probably should, let this go. I'm tired of it and it's degenerated to the point of calling people girls and whatnot. The only reason I'm still wasting my time on you is that you basically insulted me (and the majority of hunters) by saying we were a danger in the woods. I take gun safety seriously, and in fact I'm the annoying guy in camp who "calls" other guys on their gun handling mistakes. So I don't like being told that I'm irresponsible when it's just not true.

So that's what got my gander up. At this point we're just acting like little kids. :-) Wanna let it go? I will if you will.

-jeff

I don't dispute the fact that you are the annoying guy (or woman) in camp.

Let it go? You just started another thread encouraging others to jump into the fray...

Read more, post less.

Love to stay and play, but I'm off to try to call in a big buck with a call I crafted last night.... Later

Quick Question for Jeff. Why does the safety have to be off in this situation?

You think it was good in '03, you shoulda been in 2000 and 2001 when people could disagree and be still civil toward one another. Foul language and name-calling were virtually unknown.

And no Calvin, my response is not directed specifically at you--it's a just a general observation.

I hope you guys find a cordial and peaceful resolution to this dispute.

Carry on.

All I can say is wow...And to think I was suspended for 2 weeks from huntingbc last night for simply asking a mod if he wasn't a little too quick on deleting posts that didn't fit his idea of where a thread should go...

I need to spend more time here!

Incidentally, I usually carry hot. Unless the terrain dictates otherwise, then I'll uncock.

Well...........I put The Butler Creek Caps on all but one of the the new firearms!!!


Thanx for all the input!!!

OH, and I personally use Alumina flip caps.

Wow! We've come full circle!

MY vote is that we just let this dog die at this point... quit while we are ahead and back on topic. I personally am done with it...

If anyone wants to talk about this subject more cordially (or not, what the hell <g>), I did start a poll about who hunts chambered or not.

-jeff

Thank you!!!

This thread is beat up enough!!!

Another hot/cold thread for Jeffy.

It's been almost two years since anyone has posted on this topic.


I like em and use them though

It ain't about the caps!

Boy was I wrong about that!

that's twenty minutes i'll never get back.

TFF

TFF is right

I know.