Schmidt & Bender PMII 6x42 P3 #832-811-862-73-94 Special Release $1999.99

I am starting a new thread as I have gotten a couple of updates from S&B on this scope.
Both Windage and Elevation Knobs will be exposed as opposed to their original info that the Windage would be capped.
I was asked the Bell Length and that is 4.33"

We expect the 1st shipment the beginning of June at at the moment we do still have a few scopes that are not spoken for so if you'd like one from that 1st delivery please give us a call to place an order.

Schmidt & Bender Police Marksman II 6x42 Fixed Power Riflescope is simple and practical. This Schmidt and Bender fixed power riflescope allows you to hunt with the world's finest optics at a reasonable price. Utter simplicity, ruggedness, reliability and it is streamlined as well as efficient. Its 42mm objective lens providing some of the highest light transmission levels ever achieved, yet presenting a low profile. This Schmidt & Bender Riflescope is built upon the smaller 30mm tube, allowing a wider choice of rings and mounting options. The fixed 6x magnification is designed for precise shooting at long ranges, yet still offers a wide field of view.

We have arranged to have this great scope built for you for $1999.99. We are now accepting orders for June delivery. This is a limited run so if you are interested please contact us, 516-217-1000, with any questions or to place an order.
I think it is a fair statement that "this will be the finest fixed 6x42 scope available on the market".


Product Highlights:
P3 Reticle, First Focal Plane
30mm One-Piece Maintube
0.1 MRAD/Click Impact Point Correction
Single-Turn Turrets
Black Anodized Aluminum Housing
Nitrogen-Filled, Fogproof/Waterproof
Anti-Reflection Fully Multi-Coated Glass

Specs:
Weight: 476 g./16.79 ounces
Length: 347mm / 13.66"
Bell length 110 mm/4.33"
Main tube diameter: 30 mm
Magnification: 6x
Objective diameter:42 mm
Field of view: 6,4 m / 100 m
Exit pupil: 7 mm
Eye relief: 80 mm / 3.15"
Twilight factor: 15,9
Transmission: 90 %
Focal plane: 1st
Diopter: -3 dpt. bis +2 dpt.
Adjustment range elevation turret: 130 cm
Adjustment range windage turret: ± 60 cm
Parallax: 100 m fi x
Elevation: Single turn
Windage: Single turn

Turret configurations:
Elevation: 1 cm cw
Windage: 1 cm cw
Color: Black
Non Illuminated Reticle: (P3)


If there is anything you're looking for please give us a call at 516-217-1000. It is always our pleasure to speak with you.

Have a great day.
Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else that I can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Road
Old Bethpage, NY 11804
516-217-1000, 212-753-5128
Please visit our web site @ Cameras,Binoculars, Spotting Scopes, Rifle Scopes | Camera Land NY
Long Islands Largest Camera and Sports Optics Superstore

What does single turn turrents mean?

Does first focal plane matter on a fixed scope?

Leaky:

Single turn = only one turn of the turret to reach max adjustments.
They also have a double turn = two turns

It helps to know in the dark... I have a Leupold 16x40 with 140MOA up.. Thats like 8+ revolutions. Basically useless in the dark or dusk.


Focal plane : most likely a hang over from the description of a variable scope.
A fixed magnification scope is obviously only First focal.

Thanks Northman. I've been buried this morning and just saw this post

Doug, thanks for the update, particularly on the ER and bell length.

S&B must have done their homework to drop the weight of that outfit to 16.79 oz.

I can't wait to get one in my hands. I hate not having it physically in front of me so I can "show it" to you guys through my eyes

OK, I ordered one - thanks Doug!

Thanks for the support. Have a great weekend

BOOM!!!

Hi Doug,

This spec sheet shows the eye relief is 80 mm. The first spec sheet said 90 mm. Which one is correct? Thanks for your help.

LJB

They originally told me 90mm, when i received the update the other day stating that both turrets would be exposed they updated it to 80mm.
I questioned them about it but have not heard anything back as of now.

That is a significant difference in the eye relief.

3.15"?

80mm ER is paltry. Even 90mm is lean on this side of the pond.

Who specified this scope’s build details? I thought this was supposed to be a special run in response to the numerous threads on this forum and others seeking a über quality 6x hunting scope.

It sounds like S&B is deciding what they want to build. Is it still black or did they change it to FDE?

Like I previously mentioned, its the exact same scope they had 20 years ago. Disclaimer, I don't know the exact date but I know it was a longgg time ago. I remember looking at them. I was hopeful with the mention of the capped windage and slightly longer eye relief that updates had been made. Nope. The only update is the price tag.

90mm has never bothered me on sporters, and order already in, though clarity on the ER would be nice. Will be on mtn rifle build... scope bite pics comin’ up!

It may be. I was under the belief (and still hope) that this will be made with latest glass, coatings, etc. I didn't expect the physical dimensions to change and I'm ok with that but don't want to be expecting one thing and receive another. The windage not being capped was strike one, but not a huge issue. The eye relief being shortened by .4" is strike two and it hurts. I'm somewhat skeptical on the "Weight: 476 g./16.79 ounces" now that the eye relief has been shortened....if the weight ends up at 610 grams/21+ oz's it's another strike.

I hope S&B will clarify things quickly. It's a bit costly to be misled on a project like this.

Is S&B acting like Trump?

The exposed windage turret was a showstopper for me. Doug graciously cancelled my order. Can't imagine using a scope with only 80 mm of eye relief.

You can’t imagine, because you’ve never used a S&B.

Seriously?

Yes very much so. I have a 6 power S&B and I have zero issues with eye relief. I own 7 S&B scopes.

Get a room

What?

The Stratos line, Exos line, Zenith line, half of the Klassik line and most of the PMII lines have 90mm of ER...

Mounting normalish sized scopes with short eye relief on anything but a short action is a PIA unless using a rail or claw mounts... Further, offset rings and extended bases are typically ugly.

I don’t give a rats azz I know that I have no problem with th3 6 power S&B. Instead of reading I actually have used one.

I'll bet a dollar to a dime that the only change is updated glass.

I haven't used one. I can say, with no doubt, I'd prefer 90 to 80 mm of eye relief on any scope.

It's essential that S&B is clear on what they are doing. I'm willing to spend $ on something that checks all the boxes. Spending the $ then receiving something that differs from the checked boxes is NOT a good thing and it appears that's already happening.

Updated glass is good. I wasn't expecting an new model on everything else, only something that met the specs they originally provided to Doug.

Gentleman,
I have contacted S&B this morning and am awaiting a reply back. I have shared the concerns of ours and this thread with them. As soon as I hear back I will post the details of the reply

Using the measurements taken from the 6.42 Klassic I had--on a given rifle:

80mm ER would give you a fit similar to a Swaro Z3 3-9
90mm ER would give you a fit similar to the Leupold 6x36

But you haven’t used a 6x S&B with 90mm of ER...

https://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-classic-6x42-a8-30mm-alloy-tube.aspx


http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/10x42-pm.html

Thanks Doug.

I believe I have 3.54 inches is 90mm

Z3 3-9x36mm, 90mm ER, 136mm tube length
Habicht 6x42mm, 80mm ER, 153mm tube length
FX-II 6x36mm, 109mm ER, 150mm tube length
FX-3 6x42mm, 113mm ER, 137mm tube length
Meopta 6x42mm, 95mm ER, 142mm tube length
Diatal 6x42mm, 80mm ER, XXXmm tube length
Klassik 6x42, 80mm ER, 147.5mm tube length

So you have a 6x S&B with 90mm of ER?

An SWFA SS 6x is about 88mm. The SWFA SS 3-9x42 goes from 4.13 down to 3.03" (77mm). I can't imagine 80 being a showstopper. Wait and see what info Doug comes back with.

Yes, yes I have a 6 power S&B.

I think it's a definite showstopper for all the guys who were never gonna order one anyway.

I can't wait until it comes, I purchased the fx3 6x42 LR reticle too recently. It's still in the box. I haven't figured out what to put that scope on yet. I am still debating.

I am not sure what calibre would be best for this scope too, but I figure if a business man can support the forum through good customer service and feedback...I'd take the plunge and support him via the special purchase.

Besides, if I don't use it, one of my sons will. They will think all the knobby things and dots are cool....

I call bullshït. It’s time to pull your pants up...

You can BS on me owning a 6 power S&B? If so you are a village idiot

You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. The rest of us can read. It’s all right here in the thread. You should go back to sparring with Ringman.

I can read too and I put up specs from S&B plus I own them. You are a frickin idiot. You got back to idiotville because you can’t even by a frickin clue. I don’t know about the scope Doug is selling because it’s a one if a kind, but the S&B 6X42 and the 10 power PMll both have 90 mm eye relief.
So why would Doug’s be different. You an total dolt.

Saving this for prosperity...

Doug reported S&B changed the spec from 90mm ER to 80mm ER. That’s what’s being discussed.

So, how’s the reading coming?

Pops is on another Shiitt and Bendher. He's a fool....

Yep.......only reason he is commenting on this thread is to tell everyone how many S&B's he has

Tag for updates.

Another dude full of crap.

I don’t know, you don’t seem to be doing very well

I’ll give you another chance to read.

I received an e-mail this morning from Germany that it is 80mm ER

Thank you for the kind words and the support

They haven’t made a 80mm eye relief scope in years. Why are they going backwards?

Yep. The 10x42 PMII is listed at 90mm and I was expecting the 6x42 to be about the same or perhaps slightly longer....not .4" shorter.

Exactly and the 6X42 is listed at 90mm, I’ve got one it’s 90 for sure.

S&B 6x42 Technical Data

This is the Klassik, not the PMII

Yes Doug. Sorry to mislead anyone

I just was curious how somehow had gotten one with 90mm ER, that's all. I did have one (6x42 Klassic 80mm ER) and when fitted to the rifle, it was a very effective scope

3.1 or 3.6 “ of eye relief? Ive never had a problem with a scope having 3” of eye relief. Seems trivial.......

Then again I’ve never been smacked in the eye by a scope either....

It’s my impression that this was in response to jwp475’s insistence that his 6x42 Klassik has 90mm of eye relief...

1. What explanation does S&B give for their selection of an 80mm ER?
2. Why has the spec been in flux?
3. Is the configuration somehow limited to components on hand?

Don't you think Doug has better things to do than answer those kinds of questions from a guy who obviously has no interest in purchasing the product?

Schmidt Bender Classic Fixed Power 6x42 A8 Reticle

30mm steel tube riflescope is an extremely versatile riflescope, adaptable to a wide range of hunting situations. It is slender and mounts low on your rifle, with excellent light transmission for a medium-power scope. Ideal for all but the very longest shots. Schmidt Bender Classic 6x42 A8 30mm Tube Rifle Scope
Specifications
Item Condition New
Scope Weight: 16.67 oz
Scope Length: 13.7"
Magnification Range: 6x
Scope Objective Diameter: 42 mm
Scope Tube Size / Mount: 30 mm
Scope Turret Adjustment: .1 mRad
Reticle Position: First Focal Plane
Field of View: 21'
Eye Relief: 3.75"
Illuminated Reticle: No
Scope Finish: Matte Black
UPC 1919920


https://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-classic-6x42-a8-30mm-alloy-tube.aspx

I am working with S&B personnel here in the USA who are working with the folks in Germany. Unfortunately, this becomes a communication issue as well as a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.
We are doing everything we can to provide all the information on this scope.
We discussed exactly what we wanted with the USA folks about design, specs, turrets etc and came to a deal. They sent this to S&B Germany who got back to us with what could be done and still meet the $1,999.99 price point we desired.

Cap the windage and get more eye relief and I'm in. As it is, I'm out.

Same here. Glad I held off on ordering, since the specs changed.

I am sorry this is not the right fit for you. In order to cap the windage and give more ER the scope would be more expensive to make and there is a point where it just not pay to have the build done. I am sure the folks who participate in this offering will be very happy and satisfied with this great scope

Makes perfect sense of course. However, and this is my opinion only, the current feature set/specs/price point are way outside the market sweet spot. How do you say, "Cancel the whole project." in German?

Thank you for your response.

More proof there is no one answer that will satisfy people.

As Doug stated, it will likely be a fantastic scope for those who purchase.

Tough crowd....grin....

Doug's great to pursue this. S&B's inconsistency on details shouldn't be tied to him.

S&B has tripped up on specs they provided, which removed pro's and added con's. Doug mentioned it would cost a bit more to produce with those changes. I'd guess the cost would be related completely to redesign/engineering/production change, not materials, as capping windage is a very small thing and likely cheaper to produce in the long run (if enough were produced)....increasing eye relief I can't speak to. I think S&B just doesn't want to change from the previous design. From ctsmith and prairie goat it seems those changes would move two more scopes.

I'm "in for a penny, in for a pound"...and hoping the end result will be a great scope and not an expensive disappointment. There's only one way to find out for sure.

The deal killer for me was the change in eye relief.

If I wanted to get hit in the head and feel blood run down my face, I'd go down to the local watering hole and pick a fight with an oilfield worker, as I could get the job done for a lot less than $2000.

3.1" of eye relief is a no-go on about anything that generates medium to heavy recoil.

It is a quarter inch difference to the SWFA SS 6X. I've shot that on a 6lb 338 Federal which is rather snappy and it wasn't an issue at all. For that matter, the S&B has more eye relief than the SWFA 3-9 when on 9x and equal to or more than MANY variables when set on the higher power. I'd prefer more, but not a deal breaker to me. Here are some comparisons I ran across.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/...-and-experience-behind-the-scope-part-1/

However, I have to pay for my wedding so need to put on hold for now regardless.

I consider 3.5” to be a healthy minimum eye relief for a scope used on hunting rifle that generate much recoil, and I’d prefer more like 4”. Get very far below that 3.5” threshold, and bad things tend to happen much more often, especially when positions get awkward, which is something that happens in hunting scenarios. Mounting a 3.1” eye relief scope on say....a Barrett 30-06, and shooting uphill from a hasty prone position over a pack is a recipe for a bloody brow. It’s just getting too close for comfort.

I’ve seen enough guys get scoped, and had it myself enough times to know that it’s not just an unpleasant experience and an embarrassing moment if it happens in front of friends - getting scoped hard is a surefire way to develop a flinch, which takes a lot of time and ammo to get over. Even worse is if the first shot doesn’t go as planned on a game animal and you scope yourself, a follow-up shot is even less likely to go the right place when your dominant eye is blinking away a stream of blood.

Not sure why the comparison was made to PRS scopes, as that’s an entirely different ballgame than the use this S&B is likely to see (i.e. scopes mounted on heavy, light kicking rifles with brakes or suppressors, vs a scope likely to be mounted on lighter, harder kicking hunting rifles that need more ER).

Looking at other scopes in the S&B’s magnification range, the Leupold 6x42 has 4.4” of eye relief. The Leupold 6x36 has 4.3”. The Meopta 6x42 has 3.7”. The SWFA 6x42 has 3.5”. I’m a fan of the SWFA 3-9, but on harder kickers I consider it a 3-6, and at 6x it has around 3.5” of eye relief.

When are these supposed to ship?

The full order will follow a week or 2 after 6/8/18 and be shipped directly to Camera Land. That was the status on 5/31.

According to S&B we should have them here by the end of the month as long as there's no delays going through customs upon arrival.

Kind of hate to wade into the fray but a bunch of knowledge here and looks like we have time to burn for arrival and shipment of these S&Bs. I was hoping to utilize a Direct mount low/.885 one piece ring set Nightforce Rem 700 part A219 for this scope but do not think it will be short enough and offer a lick of adjustment. I own one of these but do not mind investing in whatever best. I Never have purchased or set up a Picatinny rail but getting a clue might be best and would like to look at other one piece 30mm ring set up that will would work for this scope. Thanks!

I sent this to the S&B USA tech rep for his opinion and he replied:

"I've reached out to Germany to acquire some technical data on this scope for me as they have not arrived yet and I have not seen one.

I would think that this long action mount would be too long for the scope considering the size of the 6x42 Klassik which should be very close dimensionally. If it would be long enough he would certainly get plenty of adjustment out of the optic but the mounting area is a concern. I would personally recommend using a one piece pic rail and low rings but it sounds like he's pretty set on a mount. Mounts used on a rail force the scope to be too high and why I use rings with rails."

I’m still praying for a misprint on the 80mm eye relief. Would like 90mm to match my 10x42’s....

Any updates on when they will arrive?

According to the latest from S&B, 2-3 weeks

Just got off the phone with S&B and they say last week of this month we will have them here ready to ship

Thanks for the update.

How many of these will you have on the shelf, or is everything pre-sale?

As of this moment we have 3 left available in this 1st delivery

Looking forward to it. Thanks Doug.

+1, thanks Doug.

Has S&B been able to get them out yet?

We have not received them yet. As soon as we do I will put a post up and get these shipped right out

Come on S&B.....looking forward to trying this one out..

Was that the last week of July or August for these? Thanks

I was just on the phone with S&B about these to get a firm delivery date as they should basically be here now. As soon as I get confirmed delivery date I will be posting it

There is the date they say it will be done and the date it is actually done. Timelines don't seem to be very important to them. 2 months ago one was supposed to be delivered the next week with the others 1 to 2 weeks out. Then it was changed to the end of June....then it was changed to the last week of July... I'm hoping the scope is more reliable than their timelines.

I am as frustrated about the delivery time , if not more. The scope will certainly be worth the wait

Yes, I can imagine you are.

Status from a different thread....

Got word this morning that they are shipping from Germany on Sept 7th. Normally orders that ship on aFriday from Germany clear customs the following Wednesday and then S&B will receive, QC the scopes and send them on to us so it looks like they will be here and shipping out to all those who pre-ordered the week of the 17th.
I apologize for the delay, however, I am sure you'll be thrilled with the scope.

Looking forward to the reviews. Kind of a bucket list item for me.

Should be shipping from Germany today....

Tag

Hallelujah

The truth shall set you free.....

What is truth?

The adjustments on the PM ll.

Germany is closed on Sunday’s.

Wish it would have been here a month ago...

3-20x50 PM II (34mm Tube; Elev:: DT/MTC/LT; Wind: ST/ZS/LT; RAL8000) RAL8000 .25 MOA, P4FL2-MOA SFP 668-945-995-B3-A9$3,299.00 Memo: paid, BO, no return, no cancel Subtotal

Euro Optic said 10 weeks on June 1.

It has been 14 weeks and I have to leave to go hunting in 2 weeks.

I called. They can't control what happens in Germany.

Things that make you say, "Well...PHFUKKK!"

Good

Nah, I think it's more like "things that are totally unrelated to the topic at hand."

Dang! Feel for you here brother!

If I get it in time I might just could be talked into putting it on my 7mm08 for my WY trip in October....

What’s the eye relief?

80mm ER

Should be clearing customs today......

That's my understanding. My fingers are crossed

I'm in europe now...I should've just picked them up for you...

Off topic, but since we are talking about customs: Has anyone had anything returned in a condition other than it was sent in?

Both a Minox and a Schmidt & Bender that required trips to Germany came back with scuffs on the turret covers. I'd almost want to say someone opened the covers with pliers or some sort of tool. They certainly didn't have those markings when sent in.

I mentioned it to Minox, and they quickly sent out a new set of covers for me. The battery compartment cover on the SB had the majority of markings and what bugs me the most. I e-mailed SB-USA when it happened but never got a reply from them. I may give them a follow-up again, but I won't hold my breath.

Bobby,
Call me and I'll get with S&B and see what i can do for you

Wow Doug...thanks. I will call you either today or tomorrow. You ALWAYS go above and beyond and epitomize what customer service really is.

Thanks, Doug! Lisa is taking care of it for me. I really appreciate it. You guys know how picky I am with optics, and having distinct tool marks on the battery compartment cover just really bothered me.

my pleasure, always glad to help where I can

I thought it would be bigger.

Should be shipping out this week....

Status?

I got confirmation yesterday that they were in customs. Next stop is S&B in GA for QC then to us then out to you

Doug:

Sorry to hi-jack here a little, but does S&B still make the 3-12x50 PMII single turn, Mil adjustments, P3 Mil-dot, and parallax set from factory??

Thanks!!

Yes, illuminated

644-911-882-73-94A20 3-12x50/LP P3 cm cw ST originally $3,080.00 reduced to $2,579.99

You’ll like that scope!

Looking for the non-illuminated model with the specs I mentioned above....still in production??

Those are nice! I have three of them. Rugged, and simple.

They work well for a POS 34mm scope that’s not meant for hunting (according to the optics expert here)....

No, I don’t see any non ILL models anymore in the master listing from Germany

Only ILL

The first few have cleared QC and are shipping out today.
Those of you who have been waiting patiently (or otherwise, lol) we appreciate your patience.

For those of you wishing to place an order for one, please give a call, 516-217-1000

Hopefully some reviews will be posted shortly.

Was here when I got in this evening. Mounted it but it will be Saturday before I put any rounds through the rifle. I'll get details posted as I get to work with it.

Stellar review! Just kidding .

Ya’ll have no idea how much I’d like one of those! Looking forward to reviews, pics of reticle, etc.

I'm not that far from you. Come down and help me review it!


Two things to mention on initial overlook.....

First is that there are 10 clicks between numbered mil markers, as expected....but there is only 1 hash mark for each two clicks. Not really that big of a deal but may make it a little tougher to dial quickly. Clicks are tight, it's not moving on it's own which is nice. The distance between clicks is so small and requires enough torque that it's easy to get multiple clicks when adjusting. This may loosen up a little with use and I'm not really complaining, just making note. Really need to put it to use to evaluate.



The second I knew was coming so it's not a surprise....the spec'd weight is off by almost a 1/4 lb. It's the same body as the 10x42 PMII. Why S&B would list the weight as being so much less is either lack of knowledge, lack of attention to detail, or intentionally misleading. I'm not a fan of any of those..... I can live with the weight but S&B needs to get their specs lined out.

With covers:


Sans covers:

Hopefully they were wrong and it has the 90mm eye relief of the 10x42 also...

OK,so we had a bunch shipped directly to guys who pre-ordered as well as some to us here. Just got ours and I must say these scopes were worth the wait (easy to say now that the wait is over).
Optically it is outstanding. Brighter than actual,crazy. The clicks are very firm and precise. IMO, S&B did a very nice job on this scope.

To the guys who have received theirs please post reviews.

Ok got mine today and have some review comments and comparisons. First off, nice packing job...




Next I compared it to my PMII 10x42 that’s 4 years old, and a 20 year old 6x42 police model with BDC turret. The new 6x42 PMII has the same turrets as the 10x, a slightly different fast focus knurled rubber eyepiece, and the ocular is smaller diameter. The 6x is also 3/8” longer than the 10x42.

I also noticed a difference in the manufacturing - check out the rear bells on both the 10x and 6x.



And just for another comparison, here is a pic of a 1 yr old 10x42 PMII with the same rear bell as my other one. So S&B definitely changed something on this new 6x.

And finally, weight. From lightest to heaviest is the old 6x, the new 6x, and the 10x.

I spent a few minutes viewing with mine after the sun set. Glass is great as expected. The inner reticle is fine and gets lost in thick/dark backgrounds as light fades, the outer bars are thick so they allow bracketing which will help with shorter range last light hunting.....roughly 1.5 feet at 50 yards. Glass is really nice and the reticle is workable for my use.

Kimber7man, I'm curious if the following is the same with yours.....this really caught me off guard. There is a huge "tire" around the view. I don't know what optical design spec makes or clears the thickness of the outer black rim around the image when you look through a scope but this one may be the thickest I've ever seen. I compared several other scopes to it and nothing came close even with the others having scope caps on. I'll try it again this weekend when I have more time.

Jay, "tire", as in the donut effect, like some variables have at lower power when the FOV does not increase with a decrease in power? 10x FOV with 6x magnification? Say it aint so.

I'm not sure it's the FOV, but the donut is huge. I'll check FOV on Saturday.

Intersted to hear more about the black donut.

I've only seen that in low quality glass...

Really? You have only seen the black ring in low quality glass? It is no more than the edge of the field and how it is presented to you by the manufacturer.

Let's see...S&B, Swaro...

Zeiss has long had an edge to edge presentation in the Victory but considering the "built in" aberration visible on the low end in recent models, I wouldn't wax too enthusiastic over them.

Yes. A thick black ring has only presented itself to me in low quality stuff.

Sure all those you mentioned have some edge presentation, but not a thick "tire" around the view. At least not the Swaro and S&B I've looked through.

I do prefer the edge to edge, but they do what they do for a reason. I doubt it is a quality issue and am interested to hear from someone who knows the technology behind the approach.

Don’t tempt me with a good time ...

4 eyes are better than 2......

Was tied up with chores this morning and taking the family to the county fair in a few minutes. Doubt I'll be in early enough this evening to shoot but tomorrow after church is open. If you're free come on. I'll shoot you a pm with contact info.

A note on the donut/tire around the view. Changing focus slightly changes the thickness of the donut. With most scopes I need to adjust focus close to all the way in which seems to reduce power ever so slightly in most scopes. I can see with the PMII that the further "in" the focus is turned the heavier/thicker the donut is. ...but even all the way out it's massive.

Tomorrow I'll compare it to a SWFA 6x, S&B 1" 6x, Leupold 6x...and probably several variables.

What is this donut/tire you guys are talking about? Are you referring to tunneling? Is it an ER issue?

The black ring around the image of the scope. There's always going to be one in any scope. Some like the leupold 6x42 it's a thin circle. This one is a tractor tire.

Post a pic

"Tunnel" is the proper term.

Anxiously awaiting someone to verify the actual FOV

I didn't measure the FOV but comparing it to a 1" S&B 6x42, a SWFA 6x, and a Leupold 6x42 it is substantially less than all of them....resting on a table, looking at a square panel mesh gate from about 60 yards or so makes it really easy to see the difference.

The opening pic from the vid that ctsmith posted is what the "tunneling" looks like....except this one doesn't have the BC scope covers on it and looks like that at the widest view/perfect eye relief. I get to pissed off trying to take pics with a cell phone and getting them lined up...may try it later.

On a fixed-power scope?

Not typically. Dont know enough about how it all works inside to know if its possible to reduce magnification on a 10x and leave other stuff unchanged, resulting in a tunnel effect. Probably not.

Specs on the S&B 1" version is 21' @ 100 yards. This 30mm PM version is 6.4m at 100m which converts to a little over 19' @ 100 yards.

This "tunneling" aspect of the PM II got me wandering how my scopes images stack up in this respect. Looking through Leupolds, fixed and variable, Ziess Conquest 3x9x40's, Meopta 6x42 and 3.5x10x44, Minox ZE5i and a Hawke 2.5x10x50, I observed very little tunneling effect in any of them. The Leupolds were probably the best of the lot. JCM, is it possible that you got a bad scope or has anyone else reported the same issue on a PM II? RJ

It would be great if this is the only one that the problem occurs with. I can't speak to how others are.

Anyone mount one and do some shooting?

Mine is mounted but I'm not shooting it yet. I should not have mounted it without spending a little time looking through it first.

Anymore updates from those that have them?

Have you measured the eye relief?

I just got mine in the mail and did a totally unscientific measurement but 90 mm. seems about right.


I'll measure it more accurately when I get home.

Upon further review, 80 mm is what I get, same as the specs Doug listed. That's measuring the distance from my eye to the scope when I get the full undistorted field of view. When I measure eye relief by shining a flashlight in the objective and focusing on the wall, I get 73 mm.

Nice scope

I have been gone 900 miles away on hunting trip for 3 weeks.

The scope arrived, more like 18 weeks, not 10 weeks.

The wife works 13 hours a day as a software engineer, and is never home when UPS could deliver and get a signature.

The wife drove to some UPS delivery center in Seattle and picked up the scope.

The wife calls me here in this log cabin in MT and yells, "YOU SPENT $3300? I AM APPALLED!"

I haven’t spent anything to watch this circus.

If anyone wants to send me one of these S&B 6Xs, I'll happily test it for free.

Tag for future updates/reviews. Would really like one for my NULA .270 win, but the 80 mm eye relief is keeping me from ordering one:(

Update, I really like the scope. Mine is on a Kimber Montana 280 AI and so far the eye relief hasn't been a problem. Disclaimer, I haven't tried it at any steep or tough angles like you might get on the side of a hill.

I'll put a quick update on it as well.

The first one I received was a problem scope. FOV was way to narrow with an excessive inner tube around the image. S&B sent a replacement that has ~8' (yes, 8 feet) more FOV at 100 yards and a normal black outline around the image.

I've not dialed or shot it enough to give a review on reliability. I zero'd it at 100 yards and adjustments were exact, matching the reticle....but it was just enough adjustment to set zero. I've hunted it many times in the woods now. Eye relief has been fine on a 6.5 CM, no problems at all, one of the shots was up-hill but I wasn't prone. I like the scope but again, I can't speak to reliability of adjustments and return to zero until I've spent some serious time dialing. It has performed well for the limited use so far.

Heya,

So I actually got mine today....it's been waiting wrapped up while I returned for a bit of leave from Europe. I'm satisfied with just looking at it out of the box. I haven't decided which rifle to put it on or if I should get a new rifle for it or just gift it to a son.

But, I'm glad that Doug went out of his way to offer this opportunity to the fire.

LW

20 ounces for fixed 6X fed from 44mm and with a mega black doughnut?

Might have to pass on that.

What, it ain't proprietary enough for ya?

I think [bleep] and Bendover has this market pretty well cornered.

Not that they have not got a buck or 2 from me in the way back as I have couple in the junk drawer.



Seriously Rick I can't say S H I T here still???

Simply outstanding. All that's missing is a rifle laying in a creek...

LOL.

Lil Fish never laid out that level of FFP junk.

As a side note this is the view through a 4.5-14 Leupy.

Notice the lack of doughnut?

You’re gonna burn in Hell for showing a Leupold...Flame retardant suit, maybe? Grin...😎

Anyone dropping $2K on a 20 oz 6X optic with 3.14 inches of eye relief and a mega doughnut might want to check their roll.

Just Sayin.

I'm not sure if you read JM's post, but that was a defective scope (probably not unusual with a special run) and they took it back, no questions asked. Kind of like the famed Leupold customer service, except not called on nearly as often.

If you do post a pic with a rifle in the water, don't try so hard to emulate Larry and put yourself in the shot. You're not as good-looking as he is.

.


Those Leupy’s are great until you try to get the crosshairs to correspond with where the bullets land.




I never realized how much moose look camels with horns.

Well, at least you've got a couple of decent scopes sitting on those AR's...

For the knowing Point of Aim and corresponding Point of Impact is simple button easy when Leupolds fill the rings.

510 yrd bull.



If you don' have these results quit whining, Leupold is not your problem.

Learn to hunt and learn to shoot and thank me later.

LOL.

Literally the worst optics I have to deal with.

You were much funnier on Seinfeld.

Leupold Flames 🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥 👩‍🚀
😎

Jump on in if you think you've got something to add regarding the scope in question....oh, I'm sorry, I mistook you for someone who'd actually used the scope....please disregard and crawl back in a "set up my shot" hole you little bitch... If you want to talk about it buy it and use it....if not, STFU.....

You'll not see me call many folks out here but I'm doing it now. Just let me know when you've looked through the scope and I'll gladly recant JohnBurns.

So now that you have replaced your defective scope, what are your thoughts as far as quality of glass, eyebox, low light performance, etc. How does the Meopta 6x compare?

Thanks, JCM, I appreciate your reviews.

Glass is excellent and it really shows in low light and when picking out limbs/twigs on tight shots. The reticle is a good all around reticle....I'd prefer a heavy #4 for most of my hunting in thick stuff and low light but the mil-dot is still a good reticle that's never out of place.

The eyebox isn't as forgiving as a 6x42 Leupold, but what is.... Like most 6x42's, it's easy to get behind with the large exit pupil and that alone makes it forgiving...more critical than the Leupold 6x42 on the fore/aft alignment but nothing that's been bothersome while hunting. The eye relief has been fine on a 6.5CM.

I've not set it up side by side with my Meopta but will try to one evening if I can find the time.