Of scope shopping.

Maybe my problem is reading hundreds upon hundreds of reviews, forums, videos..

I think I find a scope that's going to be great, then the next guy says it's [bleep].

I just want a hunting/target scope somewhere around 3x15 that has good glass and tracks good. I started with a Burris Veracity, but they are a little heavy and have mixed reviews.. then I really wanted Leupold Vx3i but apparently they track like [bleep]... every damn scope I find is apparently [bleep] except for a $2000 Nightforce.. and I'm on a $800 budget.

I don't see any sense in buying an $800 scope if they are as [bleep] and unreliable as a $200 scope.

I'm about to throw iron sights on my new rifle and a magnifying glass.

Meopta

I agree. The choices are dizzying.

I'm now thinking Trijicon.

If you want to dial and dial often, you have to pay to play. If not, rock on.

Are you hunting the back 40 or 18,000 kilometers away?

Sell a few guns or other chit that clogs most folks garage you don't, or rarely even use, buy that NF and be done with it, what's the old saying? buy once, cry once.

https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-3-15x42-tactical-rifle-scope-3.html?___SID=U

Look at a SWFA SS 3-15.

They meet your requirements and your budget - usually around $700.
They generally have a sale in April that may save you some money on a new one.

swfa.com

Good luck,
-Ted

^^^^^^^ Edited to add that I see mathman posted same info while I was typing.
They also make them in MOA if you don't like MILS.

https://tractoptics.com/toric-uhd-3-15x50-t-plex

They are awesome on a Marlin 1894.

This☝🏻

As said by others, the SS 3-15x would meet your criteria, as would the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS 4.5-18x.

LRTSi from Doug.....

I'm putting it on an xbolt 6.5 CM.. Hunting and range shooting out to 700yds. The range shooting is mainly for fun.

Not sure I want exposed turrets with no zero stop.

How about a Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50

They sure make it sound sweet.

They sure make it sound sweet.

Until I started reading this forum, I knew nobody who dialed for elevation. It’s just not an issue for many of us. I’m sure it depends where you hunt.

not sow fast on that model of SWFA, the one I just checked had right reticle travel when dialed for elevation, not a ton, but some. don't worry I have it on video. zeiss v4 4-16 is the scope you should check into. The sample I had tracked flawless. it also, has tracked flawless and shot some incredible groups during first round of load development on my blaser R8

I would take the LRHS/LRTS over the DMRII any day. The DMRII Pro is quite a bit better. The DMRII is also a 34 mm tube scope, and is a beast.

These....proven time and again.

Or shop for a used NF SHV.

Sorry to derail...serious question....

I’m curious how you are truing the reticles up to your jig before your TTT?

As per usual, Jordan is right again. I've had a couple of LRHS/LRTS now, and been around a few more. Great scope that can be had for $650 right now. A little chunky, but lighter than some of what you've been looking at.

The 3-9 or 3-15 SWFA SS also fits the requirements and they are also universally praised (mostly) at a price a fair piece under your budget limit.

Dave

How many SS 3-15x scopes have you tested? A sample of one? Nothing personal, cummins, but my confidence in your methodology, testing, and claims is less than awe-inspiring...That aside, every model of scope can occasionally come off the line with some sort of minor manufacturing flaw, regardless of brand. That is why I test every new scope I get for tracking, return-to-zero, etc. I have seen scopes from NF, SWFA, etc, with tracking errors, whether canted reticles or incorrect increment values. I just send scopes back if I find a problem out the gate, and when they return they work correctly. Once any initial errors are corrected, scopes from those brands tend to continue to work correctly for a lot of rounds and a lot of use. That’s the key.

You claim the Zeiss V4 is the scope to look at. How many samples have you tested? How many rounds have you shot using that scope? How much rough handling has it seen? Mechanical integrity and durability (when subjected to continued shooting and use the scope keeps tracking correctly, retains zero, returns to zero, etc) is about as important as correct initial tracking. Lots of scopes track correctly initially, but the pool of brands and models that continue to track and work properly for many, many rounds, and a lot of use, is much smaller, IME. The V4 may be one of them, but the number of samples and the amount of use/shooting on those tested that I’ve seen is a far cry from being able to make any claims about mechanical robustness of the lineup.

Open Box 3-10x42 forceplex (duplex) SVH from Doug @ $699 if he has any left...........

C583 SHV 3-10x42mm SFP - Forceplex ( Open Box ) only $699.99 shipped

There you go. 90MOA of elevation, side-parallax adjust, covered turrets that track exceptionally well when removed, 2.5MOA to the duplex intersections @ 10x works well for wind-holds unless it's really howling or you're shooting a really long way.

That particular scope leans more to the close-range hunting side of the line, rather than hunting and shooting at distance. It’ll track, but the reticle design and the fact that it is SFP aren’t ideal for shooting beyond PBR.

Depends if you want a scope for point-and-shoot hunting that is capable of hitting at distance, or a LR scope that is capable of being used successfully for hunting.

Tell me.more about the Toric, who has one? I really want a ffp. Well at least I think I do.

Correct....
I was implying the 4-16, MILs of course...grin...

For some reason, thousands of "hunters", put meat in the freezer for the last 75 years with "set and forget" scopes. I know a guy that used a Leupold Vari X 1.5-5x20 with a Duplex reticle for 12 years and shot many moose, caribou and a few bears with that set up on a .338 Winny. Longest shot was a moose at around 350 yards. That be me.

I recently put a Leupold 3.5-10x40 with a B&C reticle on a old Mod. 70 Featherweight 30-06. I am soon loading up some 175 grain Barnes LRX bullets at close to 2,800 fps mv and will learn the scopes reticle for shots out to 500 yards. After I zero the scope for 200 yards I will only touch the adjustment dial if it looses it's zero. If I want to dial with a scope I have a SWFA 3-9x40 HD on a 6.5 Tikka Superlite, a Bushnell 4.5-18x44 LRHSI on a Tikka CTR 6.5 Creed or the Nightforce SHV 2-10.

Hunting in the "states" must be different then Alaska. Our average 1st shot distance at a critter is taken at well under 200 yards. I had a SWFA 3-15 Mil Mil and never used it. It was to big for me to pack around on my 30-06 or my .338 Winny. I put a Nightforce 3-10 SHV with a Force Plex reticle on my .338 last year. The moose I shot in September of 2019 was well under 200 yards. If I was younger I would buy a Nightforce NXS in 2-10 with a reticle for dialing and learn to use it. They ain't cheap, but they offer a lot in my opinion.

Good luck on your scope quest. If I ain't careful I suffer from the never ending scope search plague my self. I think I caught it when I started reading the Optics Forum.

Ideally? Lol


I want a scope with a ffp with a plex reticle that will be close to accurate at 100, 200, 300-500yds..for hunting. So far the only thing I could get close with is the Burris reticle and using a Nosler 143 gr, with a 150yd zero it was almost dead nuts at the 200, 300, 400 and 500 marks.. granted that was a benchmarked velocity and not necessarily what my 22" barrel will be pushing..

But I also want to be able to dial the turrets for tighter accuracy to ring steel out to 700 at the range and somenfriendly competition with a few buddies.

One must remember, a certain percentage of everything made...cars, toasters, scopes, people...are defective. That's just the way it is. You can't get around it. It's part of life.

No matter what you get, somebody, somewhere, has written a negative review of it for one reason or another, if nothing else because they are ignorant and don't know squat.

You do your due diligence ref research, you consult with intelligent people knowledgeable about the matter at hand, and you don't fall victim to analysis paralysis leaving you dead in the water.

You make your best educated decision, whip out the credit card, and pull the trigger. And hope that you don't get whatever was made just before quitting time on Friday or first thing Monday morning.

I will agree that you might wanna look at SWFA. Mebbeso Meopta, too.

Some people, like the military, need the absolute best. Other people don't need the absolute best, but want the absolute best. And then there's others that don't need the absolute best, and can't afford the absolute best, so they get the best that they can afford that comes as close to doing what they want as they can find.

I'm dead lmao.. analysis paralysis... that about sums it up. Lol. I don't have money to throw away on junk. I want to buy something nice, and for $800 it should work right lol.

I've been doing set and forget for 35 years... I'm fine with a bdc reticle for hunting.. I want to be able to dial for the range. And I dont have a gun and a scope for each occasion lol. Maybe I just need to get 2 scopes... ugh.. double the frustration.

You don’t need two scopes when one can easily do what you stated you want to do in your OP...

You’ve got 4 of the best options recommended to you from guys that shoot...a lot. Whether you choose to go one of those routes is up to you.

As long as they hold zero tenaciously, yes. I was one of them. But over the last couple of decades I have expanded my capability to come home with meat and bone under a wider variety of hunting conditions by getting gear that works and learning how to use it, whether the shot presented be short range or long. Here in AB we have the intersection of mountains, prairies, boreal forest, and mixed parkland forest, so hunting styles and shot distances can vary dramatically.

There are more than 4 listed here lol.

Meopta, nightforce, swfa, bushnell elite, toric and more lol.

Low light ability is as important as tracking as well lol. I forgot to mention that, but that kind of goes along with hunting I guess.

The LRHS/LRTS, SS 3-15x, or NF F1 would be your huckleberry. My advice is to forget about a BDC reticle and get a scope with matching reticle and turret increments, whether MRAD or MOA (MRAD is more intuitive to learn and use), learn your load's trajectory and behaviour in the wind, and use the increments in the reticle to compensate for wind drift and dial for elevation. You can also easily hold over for elevation using the reticle. The LRHS 3-12x and SS 3-9x are my personal preferences for the purposes you describe.

Thats what ive been doing, but after 5 this year, damn...

Jordan,

Out of the scopes you mention, which one offers the best reticle for quick and close shots? When I look at say the MOAR by NF , my eyes are not drawn to the center of the reticle like I’m used to with a simple duplex or no. 4 .

Those SHV scopes really impress me. Appear to be every bit as good as my NXS's.

I like mine.

BTW, that's the best price I've seen, paid a bit more for mine, but still well below retail.

You'll need a rail for LA. Med LW Talley's worked well on this SA Shilen Creed Mtn Rifle McWoody

Simple but tough; a hunting scope. This one with Forceplex, which I like.

DF

If you are wise, you will listen to Jordan's advice. He won't steer you wrong. Put Cummins cowboy on ignore, his advice will steer you wrong. I have had the ss 3x15 since they came out, and I shoot it alot. Mine has been rock solid in adjustment, and return to zero. The 3x9 is a very good scope too. The turrets are a little smaller and stiffer than the 3x15, and I like them better. You can't go wrong with either one. The mil quad reticle is great and would be easy r for you to understand and use as a beginner. Not too complex. If not these 2 scopes then one of the others that Jordan mentioned. Pick the one you like best, drop the hammer, and get it done. And then shoot. Alot. PS. Yes you do want a FFP scope. No exceptions.

The 3-10 SHV is a solid scope. I have had my share of them and if they were to put one out with a MIL reticle I may own them again.

But I think y’all are missing that he asked for more Xs. Granted I’ve shot a bunch out past the OPs 700 yard mark with the SWFA 10x and others. The ForcePlex reticle isn’t doing anybody many favors when you go to holding wind either...

Like Atse said. The MilQuad reticle is a peach to learn esp for kids. When I say hold a full diamond and half or hold 2/10s shy of a diamond, there is no confusion or “counting lines”. Very intuitive.

The MilQuad “brackets” very easy in low light too.

What brand is the SS again?

Thats a beauty of a rifle!

SWFA. They make em, and sell em. No middle man. That is why they don't cost more than they do.

I was interested in that scope.. I just don't know about that reticle.

It's actually a pretty simple reticle, and it grows on ya. It works great for hold over if you don't have time to dial, and it allows for precise wind holds,something you will have to use it you are shooting very far.

Those Bushnells sound nice.. but they're like $1400?

My preference is the G2H in the LRHS, but the MQ in the SWFA SS is very good as well.

It's pretty easy to find them for less than that.

https://cameralandny.com/shop?query=lrts

hint...

Don's pretty good at leading a guy to water...

I keep skarfing them up, before they're gone.... 2 more this week.

Look, I'm no super long range guy like Jordan and some of these other dudes are. My simple advice is to either go with a BDC reticle, and spurn turrets, or go with a scope like the LRHS or the SWFA 3-9.and dial and/or use the subtensions in their reticle for windage and elevation.

If you have the disposable money, get the LRHS/LRTS. If you can't or don't wanna spend that much right now, then get the SWFA 3-9. If you can wait until around tax deadline, I think that is about when SWFA runs a sale, which you save you even more.

But know this: there are a lot of people, people with LOTS of experience and knowledge, on this forum that use SWFA's, aka superchickens, and are hardcore fans.

Mebbeso the easy thing to do, to end analysis paralysis, to give you a starting point, and most importantly, start to gain you some experience using this type of scope, is just to go ahead and buy the dang SWFA 3-9x and be done with it!!! JUST DO IT!!!

Im not pulling the trigger for a couple weeks lol. I still have 2 weeks to observe...

Leupolds CDS seems so much simpler.. too bad they dont work.

I hunt the same area that I target shoot. It's be really easy to findnthe round my gun shoots best and then, custom yardage turret.. bam.. dial the distance.

This mildot stuff looks really confusing coming from moa

Something to think about...

https://www.shooterready.com/dlinfo.html

I find this post interesting cause everyone has their preferences when it come to hunting rigs/optics.

I see several recommending SWFA, Bushnell, Nightforce, etc that shoot/ hunt in areas when you have a long shoot.

I'd like to see some pictures of your rigs and maybe explain what's your average shot... and what's do you consider a long shot. How long do you have to range your animal and dial? I think it's cool to hear everyone's experience.
When shooting long distance what are you guys using for steady your rifle?

I see post like this all the time but it's nice to see what you guys are actually using/ type of terrain and what you hunt.

You need to first,figure out what you want in a scope.Then call Doug...

I live and hunt in Florida except for a few trips to Alabama deer hunting and a trip to Colorado deer hunting and to Montana elk/deer hunting.

I hunt the Ocala N.F. and the Camp Blanding military reservation.

Long shots are possible, but 95% of the time I'm in the piney woods. I had a doe tag one year and the last day my father and I jumped a doe which ran right to left, then straight away. I had just bought a Marlin 444 Outfitter with ported barrel. When the deer took off, my father was right beside me. I had a perfect Texas heart shot offered. The crosshairs were right where they needed to be (Leupold 1.5-5x20 duplex), but I didn't pull the trigger. If I had, the muzzle blast woulda deafened my father, so I let her go. The range was about 30 yards...maybe.

Another time I shot a doe on the last day of the hunt, I wanna say in Alabama? I was watching a large field, hunting with my 25-06 with Remmy 100 gr core lokts. The doe came down a forest road to my left, about to enter the field. I shoot left-handed. I had almost decided to shoot her right-handed but she walked far enough forward that I could get turned left far enough to shoot her left-handed. She was about 30 yards away. She ran about 40 yards and I heard her fall over just inside the woodline.

Most shots I would get here would be under 100 yards. I have plenty of hunting rifles...6mm Rem, 243, 25-06, a new 6.5 CM, 270 Win, 7mm-08, 7mm RM, 30-30, 30-06, 44 mag, 444, 45-70. I carry whichever one strikes my fancy. I shot a 150# piney rooter, 40 yds away, it ran about 50 yds and tipped over. That was using the 30-30 with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 with heavy duplex.

You can get long shots in FL, depending on where you hunt, but my shots are virtually always close.

I'm retired now, and after my father passes (he's 95) I'm moving out West, hopefully to Montana if my arthritic knees can stand the cold. I'm gradually putting scopes on my 270, 30-06's, and 7 RM's that are oriented more towards long shooting. I just today got a Leupy VX3i in 3.5-10 with B&C reticle for my Tikka 30-06. I recently got a Leupy Rifleman 4-12 with RBR reticle to put on a 7 RM. I also have some Redfields with accu-range and Nikons with BDC on some rifles. My 243 has a SWFA 10x. I've got a SWFA 6x on another rifle.

The guys who live out West set their rigs up for long shooting, if that is how they hunt or where they hunt. A man could hunt FL prolly all his life with nothing more than a 30-30 with a 1.5-5x20 and get along just fine. I may try to get another one of those Leupy VX3i 3.5-10 with B&C to put on my 270 before the supply dries up since they are being discontinued.


I'm not a sophisticated, savvy, experienced long range shooter like these Western guys are. The good news Is that my local range goes out to about 800 yds, so I'm going to have an opportunity to play with that 6.5 CM, among other things.

This is the deal of the century on a great scope.

https://cameralandny.com/shop/tags/...0137-0fa6-00163e90e196?variation=1971935

John

I dont think I want illumination

You don’t have to use it. The subtensions on the illuminated model are a little thicker than the non illuminated model, making the reticle more visible even if you never turn the illum on. That’s why I use the illuminated model. I seldom even turn the illum on.

John

Meopta Meopro 4.5-14x44

I'd be all over this one if I could find the model that has the 6.5 CM Ballistic reticle.

I have tested 1 3-15 swfa statically in a testing fixture which is more than you have tested in such a manner, i agree it could be limited to just the scope I had. I also agree my sample of one Zeiss v4 may not be indicative of other scopes, so far I have tested 4 swfa scopes. I am 50% on flawless tracking.

Love hearing the attacks on me by others don’t shoot the messenger, if you want to atttack me, get specific, I can and do change my mind about things. Dispagement just means you got owned and are whining I will post the video once my refund for the scope hits my card. Don’t worry I know you are a 3x9 fan. It tested good.

3-15 SWFA or 4-16 Zeiss V4, have both love both...

Here is a pic of a couple of my hunting rigs: Fieldcraft 6.5 Creedmoor shooting the 127LRX/147 ELD on top with SS 3-9x (now rides in XTR Sig rings on a rail), and Montana 7-08 shooting 162 AM/ELD on bottom also with SS 3-9x42.



And another. Montana 7WSM shooting 180 ELD with LRHS 3-12x:



As mentioned earlier in the thread, here in AB we have a wide assortment of different terrain- boreal forest, mountains, prairies, parkland forest- and the types of hunting methods and shot opportunities varies from calling/driving/still hunting and shooting at point blank, to spot and stalk as far as the eye can see with shots as far as the hunter is capable and confident. I've killed deer, moose, elk, bear, sheep, etc, as close as 20 feet in the forest and mountains, to as far as ~950 meters (would have to check my records for the exact distances) on the prairies and in the mountains, with the average shot distance probably somewhere around 250 meters, but I try to hone my various hunting skills from still hunting and calling to connecting on long shots, so that I can take advantage of any shot opportunity in between. I would consider 0-300 meters a close shot, 300-600 a medium-range shot that I'll take on big game if conditions are decent, and 600+ a long shot that I will only take if conditions are just right. For a shot beyond 300 meters the animal is rarely on high alert, so I usually have ample time to range, dial, and shoot, but there have been situations where I was rushed (follow-up shots, etc) which is where practice and proficiency becomes paramount. Practical rifle competitions are great practice for this type of hunting scenario.

To steady the rifle I use whatever is handy Tree branches, rocks with a jacket or pack laid on top, etc. Trekking poles crossed with the wrist straps looped over one-another make a great improvised front rest, as does a good pack standing up. A fist makes a decent rear rest in some situations. Again, PRS-style comps are excellent practice for creatively finding and building stable shooting positions.

WTF did I just read?

Last couple of years it has been a Tikka and SWFA 3-9 show, either 22/250 using 77 TMKs, 708 using 120 BTs or 260 AI using 139 Scenars

Open hilly country and have had success up to 600 m

Long range dialing

So I took a chance on this Nikon (yeah I know and I don’t care )
And for $200 it’s a freaking steal. I got the moa reticle.
I have VX1,2,3, monarchs, vipers, tract on other rifles and this for $200 is the best bang for the buck
It’s on my 6.5 CM tikka SL for target and hunting.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Nikon-M-TACTICAL-Riflescope-3-12X42SF-Matte-MK1-MRAD-16520.aspx

Nobody is attacking you, cummins. I said I don't have a lot of confidence in your claims or tests, simply because your claims nearly always go counter to my real-world experience and that of people that I trust, and I don't have any faith in your tests because they are not very scientific. To get specific, a good start would be answering Josh's question above about the method you use to align the scope's reticle in your fixture for use in your TTT.

Don't forget the C clamps. They are very professional, and precise..... They should give very reliable results.

Is he degreasing the c clamps to resist slippage?

Jordan, I think you would be a better shot if you had some consistancy concerning brands and reticles in your scopes. And for cripes sake, man.... Get some accuracy enhancing webbing spray on those 2 boring, battleship gray monstrosities. Also, might I suggest some flip-ups on the bottom abortion of a scope? I'm afraid you'll get all tangled up in those stretchy, bungie thingys. Thank me later.

Shows what you know...those 2 boring gray guns need a clown paint or a gold motif, then need to be drenched to the point of all screws rusting, whereupon you can shoot fish with them and take pics of them laying in the creek...hint

congratulations?

You up early Leopard Man ; ]

But on the subject of the OP....

I find the optics snobs ( gurus?) to be somewhat entertaining....seems like there is an inversely proportional ratio to the amount they spend on scopes and the amount of time they spend actually hunting.

Yeah...can't sleep. Wife says its the product of a troubled mind.

Wife is always right...

LOL, I didn't sleep worth a crap last night either, high winds, heavy rain, thunder and blue fire, lovely.

Same here...Keep getting weather alerts on my phone of high winds, more rain and flooding waking me up...Well No Shît! It’s been like this for 2 frick’n days....Couldja lay off the fûck’n alerts! 🖕🏾😎

Yup, or little Wives sleep soundly knowing they have watchmen up who are going to die 20 fuggin years early from no sleep looking out after them while they slumber without a care, EVERY FUGGIN night!.

This.....
rookie

You met my wife, I see.....I can hear here snoring, I’m meant breathing softly. Lucky Girl!

G5....You have a good morning in The Ok.
😎

LOL, mine purrs too ; ] the song Silent Lucidity has been my life for 30 damn years with this chick, wouldn't change a thing.

Have a great day too Buddy.

Geez thunder and lightning? Sounds rough.. I'll trade you for the 1/2" of freezing rain were getting here with 8" of snow on top. I probably wont be looking at scopes much longer here.

No need, I’ll thank you right now. I appreciate the advice and your concern. I’ll look into your first couple of suggestions. As far as the stretchy bungies, those lasted for about 5 seconds after mounting the new scope and snapping that pic. They have been replaced with flip-ups to avoid any tangling. What a relief!

Now I just need to sell all my scopes and replace them with Leups, and see if my wife has any netted leggings to use as paint stencils...

I had the same dilemma as you last year. On the recommendation of GregW who has the same hunting situation as me I bought the SWFA 3-15 mil/mil. I had never dialed before and never used a mil scope before. All I can say is it works. Yes it could be lighter and yes that honking windage knob sticks out a long way but it works. Also I picked mine up as a demo and it was a buy. Check the demo list on their site.

Am I understanding this correctly? Are your scope reviews and recommendations based on ordering a scope, testing in a fixture, then returning them for a refund? Or do you keep some and put them through lots of field use? I’m not trying to attack you either, but you gotta admit that isn't quite in the same realm of experience compared to people that have actually used multiple examples. Or guys like Formidilosus that uses them and trains people to use them for a living. I agree with Jordan.

Mine has the Mcwhorter. Best hold over ret IMHO

I'd like one that is a little more in tune with a 6.5.. having holdover marks for 216, 280, 332, etc.. is a little goofy.

I sent Meopta an email to see what load they calibrated that 6.5 reticle to. Hopefully I get an answer.

30oz is going to bring my rifle up to 9lbs tho..

I am just getting started doing scope reviews, scientifically. its funny how people are even questioning that now. I think its pretty darn scientific if I can tell you the exact percentage of tracking error a scope has, within 1% its way more scientific than shooting the scope mounted on a rifle that I guy thinks is a half MOA gun "if they do their part" because it shot 1 1/2MOA group. When the rest of the groups always seem to have a flyer or 2 but if you take those flyers out by golee its another 1/2 MOA gun. As for the C clamps that is also funny when I can hang off the fixture with my entire weight of 225 pounds, AND the scope seems to magically return to zero, that is how you know the scope tracks true. YES I returned the 3-15 SWFA, why because the tracking wasn't up to my standards. you have no idea if yours does or not.

what are the factors that prevent accurate scope assessment by shooting it?
-rifle accuracy.
-the shooter holds the gun slightly different on each shot and this prevents being able to see this because even if the gun was 100% accurate and fired bullets in the same hole, POI would still be different because the shooter
-field and range conditions, wind etc.

are you saying static testing a scope has no value? seriously? why don't you watch how (youtube) nightforce tests their scopes. hint, its not shooting them!!!! OMG a truth dart. lets mock the only guy on this forum that has publicly shown and actually invented his own way not from the group and pack that you simply continue to repeat their drivell. I am not the pack, I am the opposite, I always question conventional wisdom. There are litterly tons of people who test scopes shooting them, in fact everyone does it that way. I do it differently at least initially. why go to the trouble of wasting ammo and time if you can't see what a scope is doing, are the clicks matching? does the reticle match the markings? do I see reticle shift as the scope is dialed? does the amount dialed match what it should be? my methods identify if these things are true.

you only test one thing by shooting a scope, durability. a durable scope that has adjustments that don't match, how good is that? just because I come on here and refuse to spout off about 100k and even 1 million rounds fired with a scope, then show 6.5 creed tikkas with factory barrels on them somehow means I never shoot anything.

keep parroting what the pack says, you will never know the difference. ignorance is bliss. carry on and enjoy your weekend, seriously.

how do you like the sling on that gun? I love those for certain rigs, although not the lightest option. I wish the guy offered more colors and asked him about it and he says he would but doesn't think it makes sense money wise.

I've used it on a couple of my heavier rigs like my varmint rifle and it works well. Doesn't slip and has enough give without being bouncy.

Indeed. Particularly because the distance pertaining to each mark will change with your load, temperature-dependent velocity variation, altitude, ambient temperature, etc. Just get a reticle that is not calibrated to any specific load, but can be easily used with all possible loads, like the Mil-Quad or G3. Use a ballistic solver found online or as a smartphone app, confirm drops with actual shooting, and use a MRAD or MOA reticle to determine elevation holds.

cummins,

Do you know what constitutes proper scientific testing? I have been paid by our government to conduct research in experimental nuclear physics in a controlled lab environment, so I know more than most people about what "scientific testing" means. If you're not carefully controlling each independent variable, isolating only what you are trying to test, and you're not specific about your testing methodology so that your experimental outcome is repeatable (a reader can duplicate your experiment), then no, it's not a very scientific test regardless of the results you obtain. You should easily be able to explain how you align the scope's reticle in your fixture if you're claiming that your test is scientific.

Science is objective and unbiased, not defensive.

Like KFC and Coca-Cola, some things just have to remain secret.

I was in the same position as you a few years ago, wanted to increase magnification and better glass with great tracking.

I ended up buying 2 Leica 3-15 x 56mm ER 5 scopes, both have been on various rifles using Murphy Precision rails and Nightforce Ultra Light rings. Both track as they should and both hold zero. They were not designed to be used as a dialing scope, but they do it beautifully.

I still find them for $6-700 NIB occasionally and when I do, I buy them, I think I am up to 4, maybe 5 of them. I did let a friend talk me out of one and I think he has another I loaned him.

I really think at this point Jordan that CC just simply wants attention, not an optics discussion.

Oh, I know. I continue to respond to him and rebut his statements for the benefit of those who may otherwise believe him.

Im not questioning your static testing at all. I haven’t watched any of your videos and don’t know how many you’ve done, but I am asking if your reviews and scope recommendations are based on the static testing alone? Are you static testing scopes, doing a video review, then sending them back for a refund regardless of the static test results?

You’re recommending the Ziess scope over the SWFA scope based on a sample of one each, and static testing alone. You have to admit there’s not much value in a recommendation like that.

I assume you bought the SWFA in the first place because they have a solid reputation. Why give up on it based on a sample of one. It would make more sense to accept that it is probably one of the few samples to have a problem, send it back for replacement/repair and carry on.

In case you missed it Cowboy....

He slept through statistics class.

Looks to me like the dude is a wannabe youtube hero.

He says he 'questions conventional wisdom'. Mebbeso he oughta slow his roll on questioning wisdom. It doesn't seem to be working out to well for him.

And I'm wouldn't necessarily call using some ad hoc jerry-rigged contraption the best example of using the 'scientific method'. My guiess Is that when Jordan worked for Uncle he didn't quite do things that way, which inspires me to appreciate Jordan's opinion and experience and depreciate cowboy's opinion and experience, although he does get points for living up to his moniker and acting like some cowboy, even if one who has gotten bucked (waaaay) too many times and landed on his noggin for most of them.

Don't judge cowboys by a sample of one!

I just like to keep it simple. I don't dial, use mostly fixed power optics. Less to go wrong, don't need to spend huge money. Most expensive optic I have is a 4x32 Meopta and I didn't exactly spend "alpha" money on that(thanks for getting that imported for me Doug).

My deepest apologies, sir! Now that I reread it, it does seem to knock cowboys en masse. That was certainly not my intended meaning or intent. Most cowboys are good guys and straight shooters. It's folk like cummins that gives good cowboys, real cowboys, a bad name.

Again, my sincerest apologies.

I remember growing up back in the day, a 4x Weaver was seen atop many, many hunting rifles. A 4x is still a pretty dang good idea for those who don't dial, either that or a 6x.

There's a lot to be said for the KISS principle. You are a wise man.

I've used a 3x forever.. but I't be hard to make a 400yd shot with a 3x.. so jump up to 6x.. then you sacrifice target acquisition at close range..

It's ok for a deer that is standing still but you get those guys that are in a hurry more often than not.

All I know.. I love hunting.. buying a new gun and scope should be fun and exciting.. not this stressful. Lmao

4x is my favorite, low enough to be reasonably quick, and if it isn't enough mag...well then I need to get closer LOL

Not even on campus.
He was on the playground.

Keep reading here and you will find out all kinds of meaningless drivel.Everything from what scopes are junk and you are a meaningless piece of chit unless you use Nightforce or SWFA.

This forum is a strange mix. There’s often good, objective information and analysis together with subjective beliefs/ opinions bordering on superstition.
I’m willing to cut the enthusiasts a break.
I do enjoy the banter and discussions. Not so much the name calling and making criticism or disagreements personal.

I have two SWFA FFP 3-15X42 in the family. We use them on our PCP Air rifles. WE use a laser rangefinder and dial the shots quite a bit. You have to with a rainbow trajectory. I use a 25 cal FX Impact and my son uses a different PCP. It is good training that crosses over to similar shooting at long range. I got the SWFA for about $500 less than a year ago on a sale. Good luck and Be Well, Rustyzipper.

WIth glass, to a certain extent you get that you pay for. That said, glass enthusiasts can be pretty opinionated, so take reviews with a grain of salt. If you decided you’d never buy a brand of optics that didn’t have a bad rebore you’d almost be out of choices, except maybe fit the very highest end.

All scopes have engineering compromises, so part of finding the right scope for the job is picking a model that shines where it needs to be good.

I don’t mix my hunting and target scopes. For hunting I want lighter weights, good low light performance, simple reticles and capped turrets.

For target scopes I want very clear glass with target turrets, good tracking, complex reticles. I don’t care much about weight, and would prioritize resolution over contrast.

Be prepared to make some trade offs or pay more than $800.

I was going to recommend Schmidt and Bender scopes, but then you mentioned your budget.

I think there are many good scopes in your price range, but like many things, whether you will like a particular scope is subjective. Try a bunch.

Very good answer.

Unless one is long range target shooter, dialing for elevation is used mostly hunting varmints where the target can stay still for a relatively long period.

Although I suppose it can be used in other situations. I hunt Wyoming and it’s wide open country. I’ve never dialed for elevation ever. I either get closer or would use a little holdover on 400+ yard shots. But I’ve never killed an animal farther that 325 yards. On second thought, I’d be uncomfortable over 400 yards.

I might not ever dial either but I want a scope that will.

Buy an SWFA fixed power and give it a try. There’s a fair amount that goes into consistent tracking to make a scope accurate for dialing.

I just sit off in a dark corner soaking it all in. Thank you.

WHAT!?