LGS is doing a year end sale and has all Bushnell scopes at 50 percent off. Their normal prices are pretty much MSRP. They have 2 LRHS 4.5-18X44 scopes, price tag $2099 so they would be a little over $1K on sale. I know GA Precision was selling these scopes at a bigger discount than that a while back. Discontinued and getting harder to find. Would it be worth buying one or are there better scopes for similar money?

depends on how bad you want them.... If I remember right the MSRP on them was around 1200-1400 from bushnell

FWIW, we have the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRTS from $649.99 and the Bushnell 3.5-21x50 DMR II from $899.99

This.

Wish they still offered the G2 reticle.

Just ordered the LRTS 3-12x44 in FDE, for $649.99, with free shipping to boot. Thanks Doug.

Tempted to try the DMR II as well, but will probably save my pennies to get the PRO later.

I had the LRTSi 4.5-18x44, but never could warm up to it. I think the LRTS 3-12x will suit me better.

J

2 more from Doug showed up yesterday....

How's the reticle in those..you must like them with that many.

Pros and Cons

Just a heads up, only 4 left on the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 3-12x44 - G3 Illuminated

fortymile and musicianized best be jumping quick.....

That's a very good deal on the LRTS, but I also just bought a Meopta here on the classifieds less than a week ago... I think I'm gonna have to accumulate some more paychecks before I jump on the next Cameraland deal...I passed on the LGS Bushnell offerings. 50 percent off their high prices just didn't sway me.

Are those Mils on the reticle?

How well do these hold up on hard kicking rifles? Thanks.

Yes, they are.

They hold up extremely well.

Nah I don't want a mil reticle.

I've raised my budget to $1,200

More options. More decisions.. More frustration..

Im strongly considering a Vx5 🥴

You've been led...

after you use one, a mil reticle/turrets is ALL you'll want.....

Why? We're talking about scopes capable of dialing precisely. So why is that kind of reticle necessary at all. Why have a holdover reticle at all with all that business... if you can dial a scope and use a simple duplex reticle?

Serious question.. Im new to long range shooting other than shooting my friends guns. I've always hunted with my trusty 336...

I'd just get a Leupold then.....

I've killed countless deer at first light, last light, good light, noon light for the last 30 years with a $50 3x Bushnell, that's never had to be re-sighted in once.

I sould probably take that scope off my 3030 and put it on my 6.5 and sight it in to 200yds.. and kill deer put to 400 by aiming 2" high... and say screw a new scope, take the $900 and buy the 45-70 guide Marlin I want instead.. and yeah
...

Good one, greg. That will give him a chance to learn what works, all by his very own self, without help. And just how worthless a duplex is for measuring misses/wind/elevation, and such. Nothing quite like expensive self-earned experience, for learning.

A reticle that matches the turrets is a critical component to effectively using a scope for LR shooting. It's an optical ruler, and is useful for measuring target size and necessary shot correction after a miss, and also for holding windage correction, lead for a moving target, etc.

As someone who is new to LR shooting, you seriously need to read this:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14152144/1

Geez ur a salty bunch.. thanks for answering my question. I don't mind the sarcasm

Thanks

fixed it for you, buddy

You'll have to forgive us if we seem impatient, but we've been through this dozens of times before, where a guy with no experience in the topic at hand comes here asking for advice from those who have a lot of experience and knowledge that was gained the hard way over many years of training and testing, only to ignore the advice received and continue with a course of action that was essentially pre-determined from the beginning.

😂 Thanks

On the contrary, I'm not ignoring anyone at all. I've looked at every scope you guys have suggested, and I have read and watched every stinking review on them as well.

My thing with the milquad... I have one friend to shoot with, who has a range.. and he is all moa... so Im thinking the only person I have to learn from in person, in the field.. that knows nothing about mils.. isn't going to be able to help me much. But I did read that post and it makes sense.

I'm still curious if you guys use that reticle to hold over or just to sight in, and then dial for your distance shots?

yes...... you use the reticle OR dialing, depending... Or a combo of BOTH. Where are you? I have steel out to a mile in eastern CO, and your welcome to come learn on it anytime (and mils, too). But I reckon you are from back east somewhere by the 336 and 45-70 comments......

Michigan

I read your other post and you asked for advice......these guys are here giving you the best advice cause they want you to spend your money wisely.., these guys know what works. lol
Did you notice what is on Jordans rifles? I read many of his posts and he's a straight shooter for sure..

Down to 1 left

4-3-2-1.....don't dally

We'll I guess Im going to miss out unless you have layaway? 😂

Are the other Bushnell elites not as good?

No. I only looked at the one with the pretty webbing paint, the other 2 were too ugly to look at.......grin

wanna see what's on some of mine?

Apparently you're a fan.. nice guns

Doug, how many FDE non-illuminated left? A bunch?

Those are sweet.....

Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 Riflescope Mil-R FFP C557

What about this one?

You want the 'Elite Tactical' scopes.

You may still find some older Elite scopes, but they were not in the same model line. I've owned a few of those older Elite scopes, but they were not meant for heavy dialing. The old fixed 10x was halfway decent but there are better options now.

Where in Michigan?

What are you putting this on?

If you have a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse nearby, you can check it out in person.

I've come close to buying one, but don't care for their reticles. Image quality is pretty good. Eyebox seems OK, but I was expecting better for a 50mm and 14x. I wouldn't have any concerns with zero retention, return to zero, or tracking with the SHV.

Big Rapids

Xbolt Hunter 6.5 CM

It looks like the same reticle as the Bushnell lol

Perhaps due to your lack of familiarity with them. That's OK. You'll figure out what you like once you start using different scopes, different reticle/turret configurations, etc.

While a visit to Huntsman’s range would be worth the trip, you’ve got lots of opportunity’s in MI.

If you’re in Big Rapids, you’re not too far from one of the best long range facilities in the world, MTC.

http://www.marksmanshiptrainingcenter.com/


Bryan Litz, of Applied Ballistics in Cedar Springs does courses there.

https://appliedballisticstrainingdivision.com/

Cool I never knew they were there.

Fortymile and Musicianized,

I have an extra SWFA 6x with MQ reticle that I bought on Black Friday. If you want it, you can have it for what I paid which was $200. You just have to pay shipping.

The 6x and 10x SWFA scopes are bombproof and an easy way to try a mil-mil scope for low bucks. If you don't like it, put it on a rimfire, or sell it. You can probably sell it for more than $200 as the scopes are normally $300 and have good resale.

Anyway, just a thought.

Jason

About a 5" drop between 200 and 400yds with a 143gr eld, With a 200yd zero and aiming 2" high on a 400yd shot.. that would be well within the killzone of a deer. Lol

Doesn’t matter

Why would one compensate for 5" of drop by adding 2" of elevation?

You'd be better served checking the real ballistics, before making a fool of yourself. Just how fast do you think you're pushing them?.......

I wouldnt, now that I looked up the trajectory I would aim 5" high. 😁

Yep you're right.. apparently the ballistics apps are wrong and the preset velocity is too high. Big difference in ballistics on the box of nosler 142 eld than what comes up in the apps I downloaded. A really big difference.

So my 3o year old 3x bushnell is out of the question. I'm glad you cleard that up for me. Thanks. 😜

Dude...

Your are the classic ask for advice but ignore the folks who know waaaaay more than you. Get a Leupold and come back and see us in 6 months, if you actually even shoot. That's the classic 24HC way. Might as well be a part of it....

Have fun and good luck!

I'm not ignoring anyone pal.

On the contrary.. Ive been reading up on the mildot reticles all day. That's what I plan on getting. Anyways.. it's whatever.. can't take a joke about a 3x bushnell?

Tha ks for the help guys.

Great scope. Almost as good as the LRTSi...

John

I prefer the G3 reticle, among other features of the LRTSi.

You were only about 20” off.

Jason,

If they don’t want it, shoot me a pm.

During the Black Friday sale Brownells was selling this same scope for $745.00 each.

Bought two.

I remember that sale. I believe there was even a rebate from Bushnell on top of that. Wish I had jumped on that.

Lol.. The one that got away...

Hey Allen,

Just saw this. You're on a roll. PM coming.

Jason

Yeah I'll pass but appreciate the offer. I'm already sold on a mil reticle after reading up on it. 6x as a low is a little high for me though and I'll use that $200 on a forever scope for this xbolt.

You can get a lot done with 6x and a MQ reticle. And maybe more, than what you think you can. Big game up close is no sweat. In fact, I use a 6x MQ on my 10/22 for sage rats. Have shot them as close 10 yards. And a 6x MQ is sufficient for 12" steel plates at 600 yards.

That covers a lot of ground, and a lot of uses. And there are huge side benefits to the fixed 6x. For some, they won't get caught with the wrong magnification by surprise. Not a big deal to many, but I know multiple people who lost a shot opportunity by having their scope set on too high of a magnification.

More important to me is the fact that you can more easily see your impacts, and misses, with lower magnification. The 6x strikes a good balance of "enough magnification to aim" and "ability to spot shots".

Second is parallax. The 6x MQ is very forgiving in this regard, especially from field positions. Don't underestimate this, as I've seen people chase their tails.

I totally understand the "buy once, cry once" thinking. Lot of merit in that thought process. But you went from, "Nah I don't want a mil reticle" earlier in this thread to, "I'm already sold on a mil reticle after reading up on it." A small investment in a SWFA Classic would be money well spent. Then, once you figure out what you like by hands-on experience, and not just reading about it, you can make an informed decision. You won't lose much money on the SWFA and may decide to stick with it.

Jason

Trystan Part Deux...

Hah, so true.

I agree, you have the formula for success....That GregW guy doesn’t know anything. 😎

Yep I'be been pretty successful thus far. It's funny how butthurt people get when I don't immediately take the advice of a few "forum stars" and want to continue searching and making sure I'm getting the best value for my money and that there isn't something out there that I might like/want over the few suggestions.

Just because you guys are happy here with a few certain brands doesn't mean there aren't 100 guys elsewhere equally happy and performing well with what they are using.

And the lack of sense of humor in here is really evident. Jokes met with sarcasm, questions met with sarcasm... don't expect me to give 2 [bleep] about their advice, there's plenty of other decent enjoyable people to talk with and get advice from.

Jordans been a lot of help. I'm down to 2 different scopes, either a BSA Tactical 3x9 or a Tasco World Class 3x9.. 😊

We look forward to you coming back and putting us through a few LR shooting “clinics” in 5-6 months....

Great Job!

BSA or Tasco....hmm, either will serve you well. I’d go with whichever one looked the coolest on your gun.

Yes, Jordan is a good, knowledgeable person. We all like him very much.

Good luck! 😎

Maybe even an ACOG would work.. kind of like point and click. Hell my guns going to look so cool the deer are just going to lay down for me.

What was it that some infamous fire member once said? You can lead a horse to water...... or something like that.

It's going to take me longer than that to make barn size targets so you can actually make some hits. I'll get workin on it tho. 😉

But you can't make him drink the koolaid?

Anyways in all seriousness.. Im either getting the LRTS or the SWFA SS.. Id really Like the SWFA SS HD bit I'll probably just get the regular.

The Bushnell is my first pick, hopefully Doug still has one when I go to buy it. Or gets more in.

Absolutely. After years of shooting MOA scopes, one range trip with my first LRHS and I was hooked.

Good call. Can't go wrong either way tho.

Chose the Bushnell.. done deal. Now off to stress over mounts.. a case and a cleaning kit . 😂

Don't look at mounts. Just grab a pair of Burris 30mm XTR Signature rings and add the appropriate inserts to max out your elevation/to your zero.

We are down to 52 of the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 3-12x44 Flat Dark Earth - G3 at only $649.99

I need to find a picatinny rail for a xbolt short action...

Those look like nice mounts. How do you measure for your eye, for low medium or high mounts?

get the lowest. I think they're called mediums (1") height.

https://www.egwguns.com/hd-browning-x-bolt-short-action-20-moa-picatinny-rail-scope-mount

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U1AVIYQ/ref=twister_B07NSPK6BP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

What are you guys using for flip up caps on these bushnells?

Thats a 20moa mount.. that's all Ive been able to find.

they make a 0 moa, too. But the 20 moa base and the inserts in the rings, tuned to your rifle, will get real close to maximizing your elevation.....

Solid recommendations from Don. The rail is going to allow you more flexibility in mounting your scope compared to a set of fixed rings. Maximum ring spacing has its benefits as well...

What do you mean by maximum ring spacing? I havent mounted a scope in 30 years except on my crossbow lol.

He means spacing your rings as far apart as possible, to maintain eye relief, according to the length of rail you have. The further, the stronger. That is where most mounts fall short. Pun...

I've bought a LRTS and a LRTSi, I'm glad I listened to everyone saying how good they were.

BTW, if anyone else has a SWFA 6X MQ Black Friday Deal they want to let go, I could use one for a 22 project I'm putting together.

I’ve been using a LRHSi for a few months and decided to pick up the Elite Tactical DMR II and Kestrel deal from Doug today.

Hoping to be impressed.

Great, Doug. I see that mine is on the way. Thanks for the prompt shipping and tracking.

Jason

Make that 0 left.....not sure what I'm going to put it on yet but these are great optics for the $$!!

Your dreaming. May want to recheck that, my friend.

Yeah I was off 22" or so....

You get the illuminated or non?

John

Illuminated

You’re gonna love that scope.

John

I miss the G2 reticle.

Ordered on Saturday, processed Sunday evening, and arrived today (Wednesday). Good service. Thanks, Doug.

I like the FDE more than I thought I would, but don't care too much about the color. I do like the thin center section of the reticle, compared to the illuminated version that I had in the 4.5-18x LRTSi. I sold that scope a few weeks ago, and don't recall how it looked at 12x for direct comparison.

Lack of illumination control is nice, for my needs. I never used the lit reticle on the other scope, and found the dial more annoying than anything.

For precision shooting in good light, I agree. For general hunting, I think the illuminated version is better.

That illuminated is pretty thick

That’s why I like it. You can see the reticle at last legal light without having to turn the illum on.

John

I've seen some pictures of that reticle lit up.. and it looks really fuzzy. Does the light wash out into the glass around it or does it have good contrast? Maybe it was onntoo high of a brightness setting? Or just a camera issue.

An early heads up for the members here. We will be announcing a "While Doug is at SHOT Show" sale on the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 3-12x44 Flat Dark Earth - G3 for only $599.99
Right now you can call in, 516-217-1000, and mention this forum and we will honor the price as we have not officially announced this yet. This sale will run through Sunday 1/26 or until we are sold out

OK. This gives me enough of a reason to replace a couple of SWFA 3-15's (223AI and 308).

Just a heads up. It's been 19 minutes since I mentioned this and 3 scopes have sold already. The price is good till I get back from SHOT or we run out of these scopes and we have fewer than 100 of them

I agree, this is what I was talking about. What is the need for the reticle when you have a scope that dials precisely?

Man, I just ordered one of these last weekend at the old price. Talk about timing.

Other than for measurements when zeroing your scope, I'm not sure. Holdover and windage.. but you can dial that.. using it to calculate distance.. but there's rangefinders for that and more accurate and quicker than I can do the math.

Measuring compensation to get on target I guess.. Some examples of how you guys use this reticle besides for sighting in?

A reticle with angular increments is not commonly used to calculate distance in the field anymore. As you said, LRFs are good enough these days that "milling" the target is only ever necessary if your RF fails, and even then with the coarseness of the increments in most reticles, it's an educated guess once you get past about 400-500 meters, at best.

A graduated reticle is most useful for holding wind and for measuring the angular subtension of your misses (holding the correction with the reticle can be handy, too). It can also be useful for measuring target size. Some examples:

- The wind is rarely a fixed, constant speed and direction, so dialing for windage correction is too slow and inelastic. The reticle can be used to hold off for windage correction with much quicker response to changes in wind speed or direction. Sometimes even mid-trigger pull a change in wind hold is needed if you notice the wind gust or let off, or if the direction changes suddenly.

- Now, let's say you take a shot (and you follow through properly so you stay in the scope and on target after the shot is released), and you see that the shot missed a little low and left. You use your reticle as a ruler to measure the necessary elevation and windage correction to get your next shot on target. You can then either hold the correction entirely with the reticle, or you can dial in the elevation correction and hold the additional windage. You could also dial both and use the same hold as on the previous shot, but this is slower and less practical than the other two methods of correction.

- Let's say you are shooting a target of unknown size. It can be useful to use your reticle to find the size of the target (the target is 0.1 MRAD wide by 0.2 MRAD tall, for example). This is practical when shooting rocks at 1000 meters up on a mountain slope, for example. If you are setting up steel targets and shooting them, then using your reticle to measure the size of the steel is totally unnecessary, but can be of interest.

- Finally, if for whatever reason your LRF is not able to give you a range, you can use the reticle to find the angular size of the target, and then you can use the known linear size of the target to calculate the approximate distance to the target.

If you ever shoot at moving targets, using the reticle to lead a mover is also very useful.

Jordan went over the reticle use deal. And Form has a thread on it. pay attention.....

I got two more last week. And they's a bargain even at full retail..... kwitcherbishin. grin

Repetition aids in learning 😁

But damn. SWFA cut the 3-15's down so low, they may not be worth messing with selling. One of mine is FFP and one is SFP. I may keep the SFP to have in case I need it some time for a backup.

I am behind the curve with dialing and the Mil system and FFP scopes. But, I do see where it would definitely expand my shooting horizons if I learned how to use them in a hurry. So I bought a SWFA 3-9x42 HD FFP Mil scope and put it on a Tikka T3X Superlite 6.5 Creed for the grandkids and me to use for hunting our moose, caribou and black bears here in Alaska. I also bought a Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44 and put it on a Tikka stainless CTR with a 24" barrel in 6.5 Creed. It is a range gun to me and away to learn to dial for distance.

My Alaskan hunting does not really require dialing as I have never shot over 400 yards in the last 55 years of moose, caribou and bear blasting. Almost all of it was done with Leupold "set & forget" scopes and a Duplex reticle. For most of the moose and bear hunting a German #4 or a Firedot #4 works well. Some range time teaches one where to hold the reticle out to 400 yards and a standing moose or caribou is a good sized target.

Leupold's B&C reticle is a good one for "set & forget" scopes in my opinion. There again some range time will teach hold over with ones chosen load and I recently put a VX3i 3.5-10x40 with the B&C reticle on my old Mod. 70 Featherweight 30-06 and I plan on launching the Barnes 175 grain LRX bullet as close to 2,800 fps mv as possible. If I am not happy with it at the range I will pick up another SWFA 3-9x42 for that old ought six. My custom Mod. 70 .338 Winny has a Nightforce 3-10 SHV with the Force Plex reticle and I ordered the ballistic tape from Kenton Industries so I can dial out to 500 yards if needed.

Any way, that Mil reticle on a FFP scope should allow using the reticle out to 300 yards in a hurry and dialing for any range past that if needed and time allows. Most of Alaska has antler size restrictions on bull moose, so blasting away at them with out a positive read on the brow tines and width is a good way to wish you had never pulled the trigger. I definitely believe an experienced dialer with a good FFP Mil scope has a broader array of tools in his box as the range increases.

My big LRHSi 4.5-18 weighs bout the same as the 3-12 LRHS and they pop up for sale here on the Classifieds every once in awhile. Darn things are heavy and for me and my Alaskan hunting the SWFA 3-9 or Nightforce 3-10 SHV is all the scope I would need power wise for any shot I would take on Alaska's big game. I don't ever plan on shooting black bears past 300 yards or brown bears much past 200 yards.

Even if you don't dial, the 3-12 is a fantastic scope

GOT 'EM!!

Bushnell did the illum on the LRTS/LRHS right. On its brightest setting it’s daylight visible. On its lowest setting it is barely visible. There are settings for every situation in between. But as said before, the reticle is visible enough to be used at last legal light even without the illum being turned on.

John

Huntsman, nice scopes and rifles pic too, I bought one last night from Camerland, what height NF rings to you run on a rail with those 44mm's? I want to stay as low as possible.

Thank You,
gunner

Dont you need to have the scope and rifle in hand to measure for
the corect height scope rings?

If you don't have expert advice here from others that have done it 100 times.

I use Badger standard height (.823) on a 20moa rail and still have plenty of room for bolt clearance. My tikka ejects into the windage knob, my fieldcraft does not.

Thanks Jwood, i'll be running a 20 minute NF rail also.

So what height would you suggest for an Xbolt with a 20moa rail. 44mm lrts..

LOL, I'm no expert, that's why I asked here too.

If someone here has something that works, i'll be danged if i'll try to reinvent the wheel, i'll be happy to run with it and not waste time.

I have Warne, ARC, EGW and XTR sig Lows on rails with the LRHS/LRTS's....

Ordered one today. Great people to deal with. Was trying to order on my phone and between my phone and my fat fingers i had the order all messed up. Called them to straighten it out and Doug handled it with no issues. Friendly and helpful he tried to talk me into buying 2 of them but one is enough for now. Great folks.

Thanks Huntsman, i'll order some NF lows, may have 'smith cerakote em FDE, however, your FDE scopes look just fine with black rings.

You can order online now at the $599 price.

Stoked to get both my my LRHS’s in. Got a 4.5-18 illuminated and a 3-12 non-illuminated. Figured commonality on my main hunting rifles wasn’t a bad thing!

what a concept.....

Did you order online or call?

Ordered online when they were dropped to $599.

Thanks, that's a great price so I ordered one.

What butler creek flip ups covers for the 3-12x44?

I ordered aize 5 and 9

Is the 28 ounce weight spec accurate for these scopes? Are they really that heavy?

They are heavy. I'm only buying for a Rem 308 20" 5R and a tactical 20" 223AI to shoot mid-range mostly....both suppressed. Not sure I'd put it on a LW hunting rifle. I think there's better and lighter 30mm scopes for that application.

I don't......

A little.heavy.. gonna turn my 7.5 lb rifle into a log lol.

Not really, I already have a 20 oz scope on a light weight rig, 8 oz isn't going to make a difference.

You go guy!!!! Why the Talley Lightweights?? LOL.

No.....not too heavy for a 7.5 lb rifle. I'd rather have an 18-20 oz'er (i.e.: SWFA 3-9x42 or Nightforce 2.5-10x32 or 42) on a sub 6-lb rifle myself. But your mileage may vary....like Huntsman22. Personal preference fo' sho'.

How is the eyebox of this scope?

A mountain or backpack hunter can tell the difference.

Fantastic scopes though!

Yep, but I'm not a backpack hunter.....I ride to my area, walk 300 yards.. get into my stand... pretty lazy hunting..lol

I thought I read somewhere the 3-12x is only 24 oz....the NF 3-10x I had was 21.2 oz

The 3-12x is better than the 4.5-18x version, but still a bit finicky on 12x. I was hoping for a bit better.

I'm looking at replacing mine with the DMR II. Going to call for details on a return.

The 3-12x is very easy to get behind, IME. The DMRII is a step in the wrong direction, if you ask me.

Hey Jordan, why do you think that?

x2

Mine have been a little bit either side of 24oz.

Im a lazy hunter as well weight isnt an issue. I had colon cancer surgery last fall, my days of long jaunts through the thick woods are over.

As someone who backpack hunts the mountains and foothills of Alberta almost exclusively, I agree. I know my rifle is heavier w/ the LRHS on top, vs my old 6x36. I'm a fairly extreme ounce counter in almost every area of my gear, but some weight is still worth carrying IMO. I've cut weight in almost every area of gear over the years, but went back and added weight in sleep system & rifle optics. The few extra ounces of my LRHS are well worth it, for the massive increase in repeatability, durability and precision. IME.

I found the slip in my 4-18X box for 1100 bucks. Still a good deal on a great scope, but I wish I got it at the latest prices.
I am thinking of a 3-12 for an AR15.

Actually. I’m guessing a SWFA 3-9x42 or a Nightforce 2.5-10 with Pic rings and rail (my typical setup) would not weigh much different that a LRHS and Talleys.

I tried the LRHS on a couple of Montanas and had no problem with them. But decided to downgrade at the time to SWFA.

Aside from the obvious gain in weight and bulk with a 34 mm tube and 50 mm objective (which is worth it in some applications, but not generally on a hunting rifle, IMO), the DMRII is optically inferior. I’m not much of an optics snob, but the few DMRII scopes that I have owned were borderline unuseable in anything but excellent atmospheric/optical conditions.

Yup, right around 25 is what I usually see.

Thanks for the info Jordan.

I've never used a DMR II (yet!), so I don't know about the image quality differences, but everyone that I have communicated with regarding the LRTS and DMR II have stated that the DMR II has a better eyebox and is easier to get behind. I think the 3-12x LRTS is a nice scope, but am looking for something a bit better in terms of eyebox. The 4.5-18x isn't my cup of tea either, but the one that I had possessed a really nice image for the price.

The form factor and weight of the DMR II is not a concern for me. Eyebox was the main question.

Jason

I have one on the way, how bad is the eyebox?

It's not.

Gotcha.

Mine lives on 12x. Might as well be a fixed 12. I hunt a lot of open country.

I never have any problems getting a perfect picture. IMO, they are very easy to get behind.

I don't think there is a better scope for 2X the money.

Definitely usable. It's not horrible by any means, so don't get alarmed. The exit pupil should give you a rough idea.

I was probably expecting an unrealistic improvement of the 12x version over the 18x version. However, I am shooting some contorted positions and the LRTS scopes just don't seem to agree with me. More annoyance than lack of functionality. I've been communicating with some other shooters who feel the same way. Both .mil and comp shooters (asking them for opinions on the DMR II). But, do your own evaluation, as this may not be relevant to you. And, this really boils down to nitpicking and personal preference.

Jason

I have the 3-12x and 4.5-18 and I don't find the eyebox to be a problem at all, at any power. Optics are very, very good as well.

I have the DMRII Pro on my primary match rifle, and have owned a few regular DMRII. The eyebox is very agreeable, but so is the EB on the LRTS/LRHS 3-12x, IMO. Both are so easy to work with that I haven't really noticed much of a difference between the two scopes, WRT EB, though the DMRII is slightly easier to get behind. But the optical difference is fairly remarkable in favour of the 3-12x. I've shot PRS-style matches with both, and I would take the DMRII Pro, then the LRTS 3-12x, with the DMRII non-Pro in third place, if I had to choose between the three for competition.

Thanks, based on your later posts I assume you are talking about the non-pro?

I picked up this deal for PRS, it doesn’t say pro in the title but the images are of the DMR Pro II so fingers crosses that’s what will be delivered.

https://cameralandny.com/shop/bushn...9e47e6b5?variation=2043878&query=Dmr

Thanks for the additional information Jordan. I'm going to give the DMR II a whirl anyway, to see if it's good enough for my needs in terms of image. If not, I'll send it back.

I didn't think that the PRO was available with illumination?

That’s correct. I’m careful to specify if I’m talking about the Pro model, because there is quite a difference between the two.

The Pro model doesn’t have an illumination option, so the scope in that link is certainly the non-Pro model.

You’re not the first guy to tell me that, and you wouldn’t be the first to send one back.

In ideal lighting conditions the image in the DMRII is great, but in mirage or anything less than perfect conditions, it’s like looking through a fish bowl full of water. The LRTS and even the $299 SWFA Classics do much better in poor lighting conditions. If the image works for you, you will be very happy because everything else about the scope is awesome. The DMRII Pro has all the same awesome features as the DMRII, but handles poor lighting conditions significantly better.

Hopefully you are happy with the DMRII! Let us know what you think after you have some use on it.

Thanks!

Well that package is going back when I get it. I just looked at the picture when I ordered and assumed it was the pro, I didn’t know the pro didn’t come with illumination. I’m sure the photo was a simple mistake on their end.

I agree, 90% of my hunts are backpack hunts and use ultralight gear but I'm don't using scopes that don't function correctly, I'll save weight elsewhere.

+1

Years ago I decided that a reliable scope was the last thing I wanted to compromise on because of a few ounces. My rifle/scope is the one piece of gear that must work in order for me to be successful. I have suffered through cold nights when my sleep system was a little skimpy in an effort to save weight, I have used sub-optimal optics because of budget restrictions, and I could probably even get the meat off the animal somehow if I lost my knife down a crevice. But I can't come home with a ram or a bull if my rifle/scope doesn't work right. The idea of a botched shot and lost opportunity because my scope lost zero is unacceptable to me. After investing so much time, money, and energy to get an opportunity at a ram or a big bull in the back country, as much as possible I'm going to mitigate the risk of my scope not hitting where it should when the moment of truth comes. I'll leave a Snickers bar at home or carry a lighter rifle before I'll save a couple of ounces on my scope by reducing reliability.

Funny that you mention the SWFA Classics. After getting the 3-12x LRTS I was thinking that I'd just as soon use the 10x MQ at 1/3 the price, but I feel very comfortable with the Classics and their limitations. The lower image quality, 5 mil/rev, and lack of zero stop don't bother me.

My buddy, however, struggles with the 10x MQ. He's tried several different rifles with that model and has a hard time using it. His vision is a not great, but does well with other low cost scopes.

Missed my LRHS delivery today, was up painting the 500 yard gong, saw mail lady pull up, then leave, came down in awhile to find I needed to sign for the GD package! will go to town tomorrow and pick it up at the PO!

Same here. I have to go to the PO to pick them up tomorrow.

Yep, I called the PO 30 minutes ago, he said they'll keep it there and open at 8:30, i'll call the old farmer up the road, may as well pick up a couple fresh gallons of raw cows milk on the way back, so all is not lost.

What a nice little scope, very clear and sharp, 12X will be plenty for 700 yard coyote or pig punching.

Dang. I guess I'm going to have to return one. It doesn't match the cerakote and makes my 223AI look so ugly with that pretty stock and all. LOL.

Deal of the century!!! Thanks, Doug!

Thanks you guys for summarizing what it took me many years and mucho $$$ and a ton of frustration to learn.

Once you learn to whom you should actually pay attention this board becomes a goldmine


mike r

257', what is the top stock? like the short foreend.....

What's your opinion so far?

Yes sir....I love them. EH4. Shorter forend, but enough meat for varmint weight. I think it's basically a EH2 with a shorter forend. My 5R has a 20" barrel, so it's perfect.

I like them. Had a LRHS and liked it, too. I may order another before they run out.

ETA: Sorry - not very technical. Adjustments are positive. I like the big knobs. The windage knob locks when you push it in. Pull it out to adjust. Easy to get behind. Very clear Reticle is great as far as I'm concerned. Take it down to 4x, and it should be good for first and last light - similar to a duplex. Includes a sunshade and those crappy bikini caps that Bushnell has made for years. LOL.

Do you have a picture of the reticle on 4x? Thank you

Nice, going to run a black rail and rings too, my stock will match the scope near perfectly, save the black speckles.

Got mine today as well. Had to go pick it up at post office which is fine as I had a Black Friday scope turn up missing from being left on porch. Quality piece of glass it seems. Wish I could of bought several of them they might replace all my Leupolds if I could of.

Good for you Charles, hope you got some satisfaction out of the one that was stolen, I'm going to mount mine up as soon as Mr. Feldkamp finishes my 6.5 Swede build.

Plus, I think I'm going to take that little pincher throw lever off before I knock it off on something.

That's exactly what I did....

Try it first. They kinda grow on a feller....

SWFA took care of me on that one. I don't think it got stolen off the porch I think they left it at the wrong house as other things got left on the porch that day but weren't taken. I have had a issue the last 6 months with stuff being delivered to the wrong place. Somewhere I have a neighbor that is getting a lot of nice stuff. When Amazon went to self delivery I had to have them deliver to my Moms house in town as they could never find my house even when I gave them the GPS Coordinates.

Ten Fo Huntsman, i'll leave it be and see how it handles on my rifle.

Damn the luck, but glad you were taken care of, all the del co's have a key to one of shops and lock my stuff up if I'm not here, gps doesn't pan here either.

Ordered 4 total of the LRTSs from Doug......

Congrats, You're set, hell, you probably got 5K worth of glass for half price, he is indeed an enabler!

I've never been good at taking pics through scopes. Maybe somebody can oblige?? If not, I may try tonight after a few whiskey drinks.

I think this makes it 8 total
Of the for now......

Damn, I can see you're a fan, you obviously like the way they run, I have to wait on a build before I get to use mine.

I highly recommend them. Nothing else comes close for the prices especially at 599.99 each. I wish I got illuminated versions though.

slut.......grin

NICE! if a scope will track true, hold zero, and clear enough to let me hunt legal hours, should this build ever be used for deer etc, im GTG, sounds like I will be a happy customer with this glass.

I run mine on:
Tikka SL 223
Tikka SL 6.5 Creed
18” DD V11
18” Lighter weight SPR
18” SPR (MK12 style)
16” Light weight precision AR

You all and Doug are enablers....lol

9 pounds 2 oz as she sets....Will pickup some Butler Creeks as sportsmans tomorrow...

Ten Fo, very nice lineup, mines going on a M-70 in 6.5 Swede sitting in an Edge with a 28" stainless 7.5 twist #15 Kreiger, hopefully the 147 ELD, 150 SMK or big 156 EOL's will get cleanup duty on deer, hogs and coyotes out to 700 here at the farm, it's going to be a fun little back porch, off Wife's picnic table rifle.

Damn nice looking setup Hiaring, Specs?

Grabbed a LRTS from "Doug the enabler" but not yet in hand.

Anyone know what size Butler Creek covers the LRTS 3-12x44 uses?

Thanks,

SD

I don't, but did give the 'factory' rubber band covers to an old man neighbor for his grandsons 22LR, may not fit tight, but it'll cover enough to keep clean.

Number 11 eye, and 33-34 obj. The BC tactical soft rubber objective won't break or wear out in the cold like the regular BC's. Vortex also makes some soft rubber ones, and they fold, and snap back flat..... But the best are the Aadlands......

I have a Vortex cap on a 2.5-10x24 NF sitting on a little 7.62 REPR house gun, damn nice cap.

Thanks!

SD

Seekins Havak 6.5 PRC. Warne Mnt Tac rings. Only thing I did was paint the green stock black. For a factory rifle this thing is almost as close to a custom as you can get (Custom Action, rock creek barrel, manners stock, timney - its also bedded as well as any custom rifle I have seen) Seekins did this one right.

Just took mine outta the box 5 minutes ago. Scope looks and feels quality. My first experience with FFP reticle. Damn that thing is small, fine and faint looking at 3 power.
I bought the scope anticipating using it at longer ranges (500 yds) by dialing. This might take some getting used too. I think I understand the purpose is to keep reticle marks consistent across the power range for "on the fly" ranging adjustments? At shorter ranges, I shouldn't need the marks?
Do they make dial scopes in SFP? Wish me luck. Always been a shorter range, set it and forget it, Kentucky windage kinda guy.

I was wondering how fine the reticle would be at low power, like 5 or 6?

The purpose of keeping the marks consistent across the power range is for much more than just estimating range. Holding off for wind drift, measuring the necessary correction for a miss, etc, are common applications of the reticle. You're correct that when you're on low power you won't need the marks, and the reticle appears like a simple duplex for point-and-shoot opportunities. They do make reliable dialing scopes in SFP, but that would be a step backwards for your intended use. The SWFA SS 3-9x is going to be more to your liking as a general hunting scope that is capable of making precise LR shots, while the non-illum. LRTS is more of a specialized scope for LR precision shooting in decent light, due to the fact that the "posts" in the reticle are a series of hash marks rather than bold, black posts like you see in the LRHS, so are more faint and difficult to see in poor light. The illuminated LRTS is closer to a general LR hunting scope than the non-illum version, but the non-illum LRTS is slightly better for precision shooting in good light, due to the center of the reticle being a little finer.

Congrats Sir, damn nice piece, I cant wait to get started with my 6.5 Swede, bet it'll be a ladybug shooter for you.

Easy and clear to read at 3, 5 or 6X Remington, I like it.

Maybe it's just my 58 year old eyes!!!!

Same age, may be I eat more carrots!

That reticle is fine with my aging eyes, but black markings on FDE for the elevation is not easy for me to see in low light. I do appreciate the large font, but white on black is a lot easier to see. I'm not to the point of carrying reading glasses, yet...

Scope arrived yesterday, mounted it on my Tikker superlite 7-08, total weight isn't bad at all. I'm very impressed with this scope so far. Excellent glass, wonderful eyebox and eye relief, what's not to like.

I tried to hold off on this but I couldn’t help myself.

You got in under the wire, they only have a few left and after tomorrow if any remaining, they'll be back at $649 vs $599.

SD

Pretty sure Jordan and I have owned/been around a similar number samples of the DMRII & DMRII Pro. I'd echo his comments on them. I'd rather use a SS 10x than the DMRII, especially if mounted to maximize erector. OTH, the Pro I own is a great scope.

Hope yours works out for you. Look forward to your feedback.

Neil exchanged my 3-12x LRTS for the DMR II. Should have it next week. I think he called me as soon as my return arrived, to complete the exchange. And the replacement DMR II was shipped promptly. Great service from Neil.

The PRO sounds awesome, especially if you can get a discount. A buddy bought one and loves it, even compared to his ATACR 5-25x. I had that ATACR for a few months, and I was very impressed. It smoked my LRTS 4.5-18 in terms of image quality, and I thought the LRTS was pretty good. I have not seen a PRO in person though.

I went DMR II to save a few bucks over the PRO, and to get the H59. The PRO is only available with the G3 and I'm actually not a fan of that reticle. After using the ATACR with Tremor, I found that I really liked that style of reticle. At first I thought it would be too cluttered, but really found that I liked it.

Just got my LRTS in the mail today.....I am impressed..Nice glass....Now if my new model 7 HS in 6.5 would get here.......

Me too, in fact I still am. Now days I mainly hunt. I very seldom shoot targets competitively and when I do it's very seldom at ranges over 200 yards because my gun range doesn't have the real estate for long range targets, though I wouldn't mind trying it. But I think it unethical to shoot at an animal much past 400 yards for me. Some people can pretty well do it out to 500 with out much problem. Actually 300 is pretty much my limit. All this hoopla about snipers has gotten everybody crazy. Yeah, I realize there's a lot of fancy equipment out there to help shoot real long range. But I leave that to target shooting. If I miss a paper bullseye at 600 yards or hell a thosand yards, so what? Regroup and try it again. Nothing hurt. But if I hit a trophy animal in the guts at 800 yards because even though I had the shot figured right but a sudden gust of breeze down range blew my bullet 12 inches off, and the animal runs 1000 yards and lays down and suffers for 10 hours before it dies, then that ain't ok. Then if it takes you two days to find the animal and the ambient temperature gets up in the 70s and the meat spoils, then that's a double booboo cacaroni. That's why I limit my range. Leave the 600-1000+ yard shots to the real snipers and F class and other guys in competition. Shooting game in the next zip code is no longer hunting.

That was exactly my thought. Kinda wish it was the LRHS instead but just couldn’t pass it up.

I just mounted a 3-12x44 LRHS on a 5lb semi custom model 7. With two piece steel bases and Sportsmatch rings, the total weight is 7lbs. Still a nice light package.
This is my first LRHS and I was shooting it yesterday. So far I’m very happy with it and looking forward to more shooting.

That's a very good point that I forgot to mention. A well-designed scope loses very little optical quality throughout it's range of erector travel. There is essentially no noticeable image degradation in the LRHS/LRTS and SWFA scopes when adjusting between the top and bottom of the range of erector travel. The DMRII, on the other hand, has a pretty decent image within about 5 MRAD above or below mechanical center on the erector, but as soon as you get beyond that, the image gets progressively worse. If mounting the scope so as to maximize available "up" on the elevation turret (aka as close to the bottom of the erector range as possible) the image is all but unusable. Kind of a silly design for a 34 mm-tubed scope that is meant for LR shooting. The Pro suffers from the same design flaw, but to a much lesser extent. The improved coatings on the lenses of the Pro must help somewhat to offset this design flaw that is more noticeable/pronounced in the DMRII (non-Pro). These observations are based on about half a dozen samples of the DMRII and 3-4 of the DMRII Pro.

I'm not going to argue about the ethics of shooting an animal at XXX range (although this is purely a function of the abilities and skill of the shooter!), but let's say you take a shot at a BG animal at your self-imposed limit of 300-400 yards. You take the shot and for whatever reason the bullet hits a little off from your POA and lands in the guts. The critter runs off 300-350 yards and stops to look back at you. Broadside. The wounded critter is now standing still, broadside at 700 yards. Don't you think it's beneficial to be able to connect on that 700 yard shot and put the animal down?

Yep.........I had a DMR II for about an hour........sent it back. Mirage was ridiculous and glass quality sucked past 14x.........and what Jordan is saying about image quality once you dial some inclination is spot on. Horrible scope design.

I'm not a huge fan of the LRTS either, but that's because I think it has "tunnel vision".

Personally, the 3-9x42 SWFA HD is optically better than LRTS or DMR II and very usuable from 4x-9x. Just my experience.

Mounted mine today on my Faux Ti .223 700. It is my go to gun always ran a 6x42 Leupold on it. Mounted the LRHS in 30mm low Dual Dovetails. Checked the bore sight the old fashioned way and it was right on. Shot the first shot and it was 2/10 of a mil low and 2/10th left. Moved it up2/10th and right 2/10th and proceeded to shoot a 5 shot group into .350 easiest sight in ever. I really like this scope so far. It will eventually end up on my 6Dasher Tikka for PRS shooting Im just using it on my .223 to shake it down. Reticle does get hard to see at below 8 power. But for my intended use It will work great.

Nice! You guys are going to have fun wringing them out while I wait on a build, no worries, I did call Karl, my two packages did at least make it to him undamaged, always a plus considering todays baggage/package/thief goons!

Does anyone have a confirmed weight on the 3-12 LRTS? I’ve seen ranges from 24.4-28?

Not me, for a 28 inch barreled back porch varmint rifle, and a man that regularly carries 16lb Bull Barreled Sharps rifle hunting, it is of no concern.

Mine already have rings on them. Sorry.

1-lb 10.5-oz (26.5 oz) sample of one based on a postal scale.

LRTS 3-12 x 44: 26.4 oz.

LRHSI 4.5-18 x 44: 27.8 oz.

Thanks guys

never bothered to weigh them.... a few ounces one way or the tuther, DFM.....

😳😎

I struggled with the 4.5-18 on a couple of rifles because it it is so big, but it is such a damn good scope.

FYI, We just got a small delivery of more 3-12x44 LRTS Ilumminated and FDE Scopes that Bushnell located in their warehouse. This will be the last of them

Is the LRTS discontinued now also?

Not sure if they are getting more, however, I do know we bought all they had

What happened to the sale price.

try to keep up.....

These were on extra discount while I was away at SHOT Show. As stated in that sale post:

"I like to make sure when I am out the guys here stay busy. With this in mind I arranged a little extra discount on these items that were already priced aggressively for sale. Regular pricing will switch back when I return from SHOT, January 26th, that is if these aren't sold out before"

Today's the 27th and the "little extra discount on these items that were already priced aggressively for sale" have gone back to the discounted pricing before this sale was running.

Great news is that we did get a dozen more of the LRTSi Illuminated in, that we have been out of as well as about 30 more of the FDE that we were down to less than 10 of.

These were the last that Bushnell had so when these are sold that will be it for these at these crazy cheap prices.

Thank you Sir.

Mine arrived today, thanks you bunch of enablers!

SD

I moved mine over to my 6cm Fieldcraft