Just found out that I drew a muzzy tag on this unit. I am a resident of Utah and have 13 years invested in trying to draw a tag. Just starting to do some research and will be doing some scouting this summer. The muzzy hunt starts September 26.

Looking for any advice on where to look, camp , tactics ect. Thanks

Jon

No, but congrats on a great tag

I hunted the Paunsagunt twice, and I took a 30" buck that scored 183. Since this tag is very likely to be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt, I think you should consider getting a guide, even though you're a Utah resident.

I hunted with Jeff Johnson out of Kanab. He owns around 3000 acres of irrigated land on Skutumpah(sp?) Creek and leases many more acres of surrounding BLM land. He isn't an outfitter per se, but he has lived and hunted there all his life. A more capable or honorable man you won't find.

Thanks for the info. Do you have Jeff's phone #?

If you decide to go with a guide, contact Ryan Hatch out of Kanab (Monster Muley's). He'll put you in touch with people who know that unit like the back of their hand.

Unless it's landlocked, it's not possible to restrict hunting on the BLM lands he "leases"...FWIW.

Yes. pm sent

Do does he charge to "outfit"?

Sure, he charges. And he also feeds you and provides horses, tack, and guiding expertise based on his entire life living and hunting there. But he belongs to no guide association nor holds any guiding license, at least that I'm aware of. He does no advertising, has no website, attends no hunting shows, either. I know of no booking agents that send him hunters. His assistant guides were his two sons, Travis and Tyson. I slept on a cot in the tack room and ate at the dinner table the food that Jeff himself cooked up.

So, I guess you could call him an outfitter......per se.

He leases the BLM land for grazing and water conservation, not for hunting. I should have been more clear....my bad.

But all of his gates were closed (but not locked), and I suppose any other hunters who were intimately familiar with the area could have gone in there with horses or 4x4s. The only other hunters we saw were on the roads, not on the land.

I figured as such. I just wanted to make it clear that one can't lease hunting for BLM lands. If it's on a public road on BLM he can't lock the gate even if he wanted to.

I sure hope for his sake he is a licensed outfitter. UT recently changed the laws regarding the requirements and from your description of what he does he would need a license with the state. Similarly, he would need a permit from the BLM to conduct outfitting/guiding opportunities on BLM lands. FWIW...

The public land hunting has really stunk the last few years, due to extreme poaching and predators. I concur with the others, get on some private land and work out a deal with land owners or outfitters. It truly is a once in a lifetime hunt. Get your butt in shape and if you don't use premium binos now, get some and learn how to live behind them and use them constantly. The best bucks are coming off of the Heaton Ranch down there.

Don't expect a slam dunk easy hunt, even with an outfitter. You will hunt your butt off for a nice buck. Flinch

Flinch, by saying that Ryan "keeps getting himself in trouble with the law" are you referring to the incident that happened in 1997 where the federal government spent millions of dollars on a case dubbed "Operation Navajo Buck", that named quite a few hunters and got Ryan for not having his $10 companion permit on the Navajo Nation? I'm guessing that this must be what your talking about seeing as to how Ryan hasnt been in trouble with the law since then. You've posted misinformation before but this takes the cake.

I have hunted with Ryan in the past and was with them on the hunt for "Sampson" and can tell you that he will not bend a law at all! He knows that he has a target on his back and he goes above and beyond to be 100% legal. This has been my real life experience with the man and of all the hours I've spent in the field with him I have NEVER seen a Game Warden, much less been "harassed by the law". What a joke!

I would have loved to post the name of the guy you need to call but I sent it via PM for fear that Flinch might get his "facts" mixed up and accuse him of being a serial law breaker.

Best of luck on your hunt and whichever route you decide to take I sincerely hope you have the hunt of a lifetime.

Christensen Arms sponsors my friend and they took him and I on a Pauns hunt 2 years ago. We had a blast! Here is a video promo of that hunt

Thinking he has Hatch confused with Kirt Darner...

After reading some of his posts here on 24HR I'd say he's always confused

That should actually read Muley Crazy, not Monster Muley's.

Exactly WHAT facts do you think I have wrong in my other posts?

You fail to recall the issue a couple of years ago with Ryan flying around in a paraplane, locating bucks and taking his clients to them or "herding" the bucks to his clients? He can no longer own one or be in one. Flinch

Drum, I saw that episode......sweet!

So your telling me that 2 years ago Ryan was caught "herding" bucks to his clients in a chute plane and all they did was take away his chute plane? Did they take away his TV time and make him eat all of his vegetables too? LMAO! Your an idiot. If Ryan had done that 2 years ago it would have been huge news. That didnt happen Flinch and I beg you to produce anything to the contrary.

Seriously, Flinch, if your going to make accusations like that on a public message board you better be 100% positive that your correct. When I took Ray Atkinson to task I was 100% POSITIVE that I was right and he was wrong. I did not want to open myself up to a defamation suit

As for your other false statements, here are a couple about Antelope Island and the Kennecott Mine



The most "difficult" aspect of this hunt will be picking out the deer you want to kill. If you compare the deer on the island to other bucks of the same age in heavily hunted areas your comparing apples to oranges



Not one? I'm not trying to be argumentative in any way, shape or form but an Antelope Island tag wouldn't interest me at all and I am absolutely addicted to big mule deer. Arizona Strip or Henries Mountain and I'd take as many tags as I could get



Employees of the mine have been given tags for over a decade now. They give employees multiple tags a year. No employee killed a buck this year like the one you described.

Flinch, your "that guy", you hear rumors, accept them as fact and you run your mouth. You think you know a lot about everything but really dont know crap about anything. I've seen your kind in and around hunting camps for YEARS. You talk a big game but when it gets down to the nut cutting you'll be the douche bag that brings in a spike bull on a LE elk unit and then make excuses for doing so

You wouldn't take an Antelope Island tag? Uh hu...sure...you are addicted to mule deer, but would turn down a tag....right. You are one in a billion that wouldn't take the tag. I guess I was wrong and I admit it. There is "one" person in the world that wouldn't take the tag

You don't think the Henry's would be an easy hunt? Have you spent time down there hunting? I have some video you might enjoy from the Henry's that I actually took myself. It IS shooting fish in a barrel. I had more fun down there chasing big mule deer, which were EVERYWHERE, than I did chasing the buffalo I was after.

When my buddy talked to Ryan on the phone (I was with him), he said he had some issues with the law and his chute plane practices. He said the fish cops were always bugging him. Hmm...I wonder why? I don't know what happened, nor do I care. Why again does he have a target on his back, if he is so squeaky clean? I like the guy and have NO beef with him at all. I would hire him in a second. He is a great guy, but WELL known by law enforcement and die hard muley hunters. And he does get checked and followed by law enforcement frequently. He will tell you that himself. If the original OP was with Ryan, he would more than likely get checked often and thoroughly as well. That is all I was saying. I wasn't defaming him, just giving the original OP some insight.

Everyone that knows Ryan KNOWS he hasn't been squeaky clean all his life? I could care less, unless he was a hard core poacher, like Darner. Again, he is a great guy and I admire his acheivements. I would hunt with him in a second, regardless if I was checked by the game wardens a lot or not. I would expect it in such a unit. I got checked several times. Flinch

Flinch, why in the world did you edit your post?

Before I address any of this I have say that I find it HILARIOUS that you went back and edited your original post and then in this post try to tell us that you like Ryan and that you werent trying to hurt his business. Your a freaking joke Flinch!

I like how you went back and removed this


Are you going to go back and add that to the original post now that you've been called on it.

Your an idiot. You slam him then want to do the "buddy buddy I really respect him" thing. You tell the OP to steer clear then you tell us that you'd book a hunt for yourself with him. Have you always been this freaking stupid? Go jump off a bridge, your a clown

This topic interest's me because I have hunted there a few times, I know a few people that dont like Ryan for whatever reason. I have met him a few times and have no problem with him. the last time I went down I went with Dennis Wintch and people treat him the same way. they Love him or they hate him.
I think he is a great guy and an awesome hunter but other's call him a poacher and worse.
From my experience the bad guy's on the Paunsaugunt are the HIGH Fencer's (Heaton Ranch), or any time one of Doyle Moss's henchmen (Mossback) show up

Huntsonora was the rifle a re-barreled Sako? If so how did it shoot?

Dink

I don't care if people love him or hate him, I just cannot stand when somebody comes out with a BS story and when called on it they edit their words and crawdad. Nothing worse than that!

If somebody is successful you'll always have people that love em or hate em, doesn't just pertain to hunting. Sometimes it's warranted and sometimes it's jealousy

Nobody likes a winner Drum. It's been that way forever. I've talked to Hatch numerous times on the phone, and met him in person last August in Ft Worth. He knows as much or more about big mule deer than anyone I know.

The editing/deleting of posts here does make one curious.

Thanks, I own top end optics, am in decent shape and have a muzzloader that prints 3 inch 3 shot groups at 200 yards. I have been prepared for this hunt for a while in the equiptment catagory.

Have you been down there on a deer hunt recently Flinch?

Jon

There was a booking agent here that I used to take to task and that person was notorious for going back and editing on another forum

What ever happened to your main man Ray? He sent me some hate mail a few times too.

I hunted antelope last fall on the Mt. Dutton/Paunsaugunt unit and saw a couple smoker muley bucks. My brother-in-law also hunted the Pauns management hunt last year and killed a great buck (28" 3x4). He's got relatives who live in Kanab and spend every waking moment on that unit who guided him and gave me great info for the speed goats.

Even if you don't go guided, I think a phone call to Ryan Hatch would still be valuable. Long story, but I had a couple conversations with him last year about a fugg'n low-life crook I found out we had in common and he (Ryan) was easy to talk to and seems to be a straight shooter.

The other thing is, Utah's been getting pounded with rain, so should be a banner year for horn growth! You'll have a great hunt no matter what!~

He crawled back under a rock I guess. Hopefully he sends Flinch a postcard and tells him it's sunny there

Samnora, I edited my posts, because you aren't worth the ink or time to bother with. I was going to post a bunch of facts that you called me on, but you aren't remotely worth the effort. I'm glad you finally found your calling as the new internet forum police.

Ryan has a past, it follows him around to this day and he does get harassed by the cops. He said that, I just repeated it. Get your facts straight. I never said I didn't like him or didn't respect him, but thanks for puting words in my mouth and making stuff up. Learn how to read and comprehend. I know it isn't your strong point, but give it a whirl.

To the original OP, I haven't hunted deer in the Paunsaugant with a gun, only a camera. I have spent time in the unit hunting coyotes and video taping deer, but have never had a tag. I have 3 close friends that drew the tag. Two got "okay" bucks (mid 20's), one got a nice buck and is in the attached pic.

I got checked several times by game wardens while hunting coyotes. They are protective of the unit. There is a LOT of poaching down there. They were happy I was thinning out a few coyotes. Good luck on your hunt. Flinch

Damn dude! You even edited this post! Your an absolute joke Flinch

Drummond

Flinch, that has got to be one of the sorriest excuses I have EVER heard! You were going to post "a bunch of facts" but I'm "not remotely worth the effort". Seriously, thats simply pathetic but about what I expected!

Where did I put words in your mouth Flinch?



If you "liked and respected" somebody you wouldnt post this kind of crap. You stated that he "keeps getting in trouble with the law" and that is 100% false



I failed to recall it because it didnt happen Flinch. This is a BS story and I have asked you before and will ask you again to substiantiate it. You claim that you can but that I'm not worth the time but you and I both know that you cant do it because it isnt true.



Thats just sad, your telling BS stories based on second hand information.

Look Flinch, its apparent what has happened here. You posted some BS that you made up or somebody else made up and you were stupid enough to believe and when you were called on it you went back and edited your posts like a little bitch. You said slanderous things that cannot be proven and you knew that this could turn out bad for you if the guys over at Muley Crazy heard about it. Instead of being a man about the situation and admitting that you were wrong, you edit posts and claim that I'm putting words in your mouth. Your a scumbag Flinch

You should use the "Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out" to pull your head out of your ass.

Drummond

Flinch, can you post and substantiate the facts for those of us who are worth it...?

While your are it Flinch, why dont you call Ryan down at the Muley Crazy offices at (435)644-2486 and ask him about this....


Explain to him who you are and what you've posted, in fact, I want you to read your quote to him. I would LOVE to hear that conversation!

Don't buy into the hype. There is nothing to know about "big mule deer" other than the units that hold those deer. Either you are good at hunting mulies, or you are not. Same goes for any species. I have been successful at hunting mulies, and they are my favorite animal to hunt. That being said, i will not discount luck when it comes to the size of the rack.

I have often found, that the majority of the time these people that seem to defy the odds and kill a huge buck every year, have more to the story than you will ever know. It is basic statistics, if only 1% or a herd has a trophy class animal, yet a certain person(s) seem to kill that 1% every time, how is it possible? They are equipped with the same gear, as everyone else.

I have a buddy that grew up in some of the best mulie country around, kills an elk every year on public land, whether it is with bow, or gun, and has yet to kill a 200" buck. (open for debate, but I think elk are much harder to hunt) You think it is because he is a bad hunter? No, it is because the odds are stacked against you, no matter who you are, or the unit you hunt.

Killing a pile of big mule deer is a lifetime of work....and you gotta be on the right ground...

The Pauns is a fabulous place...if you can get a tag...or buy a landowner tag which ain't cheap;or at least wasn't when I hunted there.

It can grow some whoppers though....if the live long enough and dodge the poacher's bullets down there.

The whole scene got too competitive and silly expensive to mess with....and I didn't like the poaching activity wardens told me about;licenses too hard to draw...

I forgot about it and concentrated on Wyoming and Canada.And I'd rather hunt the Eastern Colorado plains in the lower 48.......but the Pauns is a great place.Hope the OP does well there this year.

Not the first person I have heard said that. I hear hunting is a schit-show due to the Utards running around trying to trump each other.

Thats a FACT!

There is a reason that some guys consistently kill big animals and some dont. Even if they know units like the backs of their hands. Guys like Ryan Hatch, Chad Smith in Arizona, Doyle Moss, Drummond Lindsey. Im not getting into a pissing match about Mossback, so lets not go there. But I do know Ryan a little, and I grew up roping with Chad, and he is a decent friend of mine. He made it to the National Finals Rodeo in the team roping, with my first cousin Randy Polich. Thats besides the fact, but these guys are making tracks in good units every day. They know where these deer chit, piss and sleep everyday. Its not an accident why they kill big deer. Yes there are many that bend or break rules/laws (Kirk Darner), but IMHO thats not the case with any of these guys. Yes we all know, that Doyle will hire everybody that owns a pair of binoculars to scout for him, but if hes not doing anything illegal, then more power to him. It pisses me off that everytime somebody kills a monster animal, the first thing that is said, usually by a bunch of jealous pricks, is that it was done illegal. I was very lucky a couple of years ago. I killed a 181 b/c whitetail, and then the very next year, I killed a 194 b/c whitetail. The first thing that was said by some of the locals was that I poached them. They were killed 100% legal, and with the 194, I knew there was going to be a bunch of this chit going on, so before I even gutted him, I left my buddy that I was with, with the buck, hiked to the top of the hill, called the game warden, told him where I was, and then drove out to the road and brought him to the kill site. Just so there wouldnt be any bullchit. And just like I thought, as soon as people in town seen the deer, he said his phone started ringing off the hook. I got accused of killing him in a high fence, which there is non within 50 miles of where I was, I got accused of killing him with a spot light, and I got accused of killing him on the ranch that bordered ours, which I was a good 2 miles from the fence line. The neighbor had the buck on trail camera and had missed him the week before and I caught him running doe on us, and I did not miss.
Hell, just last year, I got a ticket because I didnt have my license with me. I was whitetail hunting for both my boys, (8 and 5) I had both of my boys with me, 3 guns, 3 sets of binos, 3 back packs, and we were running late and I ran off and forgot my wallet on the night stand at my buddies house where were staying at. My oldest missed a big aoudad that evening. The warden was watching us, heard the shots, and stopped us on the way out. I had both boys licenses, but not mine, and in Texas kids have to hunt with a licensed adult. The ticket got dismissed, when I showed the judge my license and told her what happened.
Does this make me a serial poacher or law breaker, just because I received a ticket from a game warden have been blessed enough to kill some a few monster deer??? I dont think so.

Toby Joe

You have killed two good deer, hardly enough for a controversy.

Cripes IIRC I was on it the first or second year it opened back up....it was NOT easy.....but through the Hunting Report,it got a pile of publicity....that was the beginning of the end....I went to Canada...

TJ, obviously you dont live in Utah and see what happen's with Doyle Moss. The Utah DNR turns it's head when Doyle or his henchmen close a public road on the Pahvant so that a legal drawn tag hunter has no chance at a monster bull (only the purchased big ticket hunter that he is guiding has a chance).
Or he will bribe or threaten a legal tag holder on the Henry's to stay away from a big mule deer so his big ticket auction buying client can have it.
If you live in Utah you HATE Doyle Moss (Mossback) and what he stands for unless you work for him or have the money to pay him or are ignorant.

That's the first fugg'n thing you've ever posted that I actually agree with!

Where did Flinch go? I bet he is trying to come up with something witty that he can post and then edit

My point was that that any time a large book animal is taken, there is a bunch of jealous pricks that immediatly assume it was killed illegal.

Have had clients in the last 8 years kill 5 different mule deer bucks that scored over 200 inches. It seems every year there is always stories of how we did it illegal because of the nay sayers. Because of them, we usually see the game warden alot on our ranches here in the Panhandle. It has got anymore, when he shows up at the headquarters, I ask what it is now? and he replies, "Same chit, different year", and then we all have a laugh. Never have been given a ticket or charged with anything, other then what I posted above.

Toby Joe

Your right, I dont live in Utah, and damn glad I dont. If that is what Mossback is doing, then sounds like somebody needs an azz whooping. I have ran into the same problem with a certain USO owner when we used to hunt alot of public in NM. I chased this particular bull during archery season. Then took a friend back in there during the muzzle loader hunt. We came in the back side, walked in the dark for 3 hours. As the bull lay taking his last breaths, the guide and his client walked up. I knew they were pretty close, I could here the idiot calling with his Sceary elk call before we killed the bull. He was not happy, and proceded to tell me that he was going to whip my azz, I told him that he may want to tell his camera man to turn off his camera, because I dont think that he wanted any video of what was fixing to happen to him , as I picked up a piece of cedar fence post. Needless to say, he left.

Toby Joe

[quote=TOBYJOETRUBYI told him that he may want to tell his camera man to turn off his camera, because I dont think that he wanted any video of what was fixing to happen to him , as I picked up a piece of cedar fence post. Needless to say, he left.

Toby Joe [/quote]

You should have told the camera man to keep rolling so you could take the film and put it on youtube later.

I couldn't agree more. I've said it before, nobody likes a winner. Also, for others to say basically all you need is good ground to kill big mule deer is laughable. It obviously helps no doubt. There are some awfully big bucks that are only seen for a two week period during the rut. I'm continually amazed that we can ride around with the ranch foreman around Christmas and see this played out time and time again. He's out feeding cattle everyday, and he never sees any of the big, big bucks except then.

JG: That's true on the ground I hunt as well.....the rancher calls after the season, in November,to say they have seen this hog or that and I wonder if they moved onto the place during the rut....or were there the whole time.....headscratcher for sure..

....again, why does Ryan have a target on his back if he hasn't done anything wrong?

I find it comical that you have turned this statement into a giant pissing match. "Ryan Hatch down there keeps getting himself in trouble with the law, due to some shady hunting practices. If you go with him, be prepared to get harassed by the law."

Facts are facts, Ryan hasn't always been squeaky clean and that is why he gets checked a LOT and they watch him close. But again, anyone that is successful at what they do get a lot of controversy, as Toby stated.

Your dick is bigger you win. I was wrong and you are always right. You are the best hunter in the world. You are always on the up and up. You are an expert. Feel better? Jeez, let it go, get outside and get some air. Oh, and I edited this one again, just for your amusement. Flinch

Funny part about UT is, there are a lot of mormons. Part of the mormon belief is helping others. I have never seen a more competitive, backstabbing, deceitful group of "outdoorsman" than what comes out of UT though. Hell, WY actually had to shut down parts of their state during the spring because the UTards were hammering the winter grounds so hard looking for sheds. Now the same group has migrated into CO. A Utard would push down an 8 year old kid, if he thought the kid was about to pick up a spike elk antler.

Worst part is, a lot of UT hunters are good guys, but will still defend the losers from their state regardless.

This is what I meant by "laughable".

Laugh all you want...you think "trophy" hunters waste their time in units known for 150 class bucks, when they are looking for a 190? Nope...

Tell you what, we've got 100 sections of private ground in which the last 4 bucks my buddy and I have killed have averaged 30.25" wide and grossed 192 6/8". I'll bet you $1000 I could turn you loose out there and you'll never see one like that.

I've killed one buck over 190, and two over 200, on public land. I have also hunted some 2nd rate units and didn't see anything over 120....Go ahead, turn me loose...

I love people that brag about their private land hunting accomplishments.

I know the country that JG hunts well and its some of the toughest hunting around IMO. It may be private but the deer densities are low, your walking in sand most of the time and it can be fairly thick with not a lot of places to gain elevation and glass. Its not your average "private land" hunt. Its physically and mentally demanding.

I see both sides here but will add that I think there is more to it than just knowing how to hunt mule deer. Intimately knowing the ground you hunt is just as important, I think that this is why there are some people that are more successful than others, especially in areas like the Strip or where JG hunts where the densities are not as high as they are in other places. My guess is that JG could come up here and not be as successful as a Dogcatcher because he doesnt know and understand the ground and we could head down to JG's place and he would smoke us at finding the animals. That being said, the learning curve would be drastically reduced if you have an understanding of hunting mule deer. Their tendencies and instincts are basically the same

I dont mind hunting units that are not known for producing giant bucks, keeps out the hard core trophy hunters and I like that. I think that here in CO every unit in the state has the potential to produce a 200" deer, some just produce a lot more of them than others.

Here is a buck I have found 2 years in a row in a unit that has never been known for big deer. This buck is a STUD! Look at his browtines...

September 2, 2009





August 5, 2010 Still had some growing to do

Flinch, the problem that I have is that you said that he keeps getting in trouble with the law due to shady hunting practices, made a claim that he was caught a couple of years ago herding deer to his clients with a powered parachute and that as a result he could not own or fly one anymore. These are all FALSE statements yet when called on them you resort to editing posts and telling me that I am not worth the time it would take to prove it. If I am not worth the time to prove it then why did you take the time to edit your posts?

What you did, IMO, is an example of what is wrong with the sport of hunting. You ran your mouth when you really have no clue as to what your talking about. You ran a guy down with false accusations and those accusations can have a direct impact on him and his family. Its simply irresponsible to say things like this, especially when you admit that this is all second hand information.

You call it a pissing match but I just cant stand people that act the way you have here. Your last post you had a sarcastic apology, you dont even realize the harm that rumors have on others. Your just a fool that doesnt have a clue. Yes, people that are successful do get controversy BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT CREATE THE CONTROVERSY but making false statements. Do you not get that?

'sonora, after this year, I might have to take up archery hunting for mulies... Too hard to get rifle tags, but man, I do not care for velvet bucks.

ha!

It is a kick in the pants! Seriously a damn good time! It's easy to strip velvet and there is a guy in Iowa that can paint racks and make them look like they would if they had rubbed naturally. He is freaking amazing, in fact, you may know him from the taxidermy world

Drum

HS said....."My guess is that JG could come up here and not be as successful as a Dogcatcher "

I couldn't agree more. I'm not an expert anywhere! You understood my point perfectly well.......there's more to killing them than showing up on good ground.
Dogcatcher makes it sound so ridiculously simple.

If I'd ever killed a buck like that one you got in Mexico, I'd quit mule deer hunting!...

Not bragging. Point being they're here, and you wouldn't know where to start with 65,000 acres of sand, few roads, no elevation, and one deer per 1000 acres. You wouldn't have any Christmas money left.

GW, I've said it so many times, and Dogcatcher is right on.....I was so lucky and in the right place at the right time. I was able to knock him over but that's where the skill in that deal stops. Thanks though, he's literally a 1 in 1,000,000 buck.

My buddy's tell me to start looking for a huge nontypical..........

I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week! That being said, I think that the guys that get lucky more than others have a knack for creating their own luck and that is a skill in itself. You've killed some absolute GIANTS bud! Cannot pin that on luck alone

You guys probably think Garth Carter is a good hunter too. He is good at hunting down private land that has giant bucks, i will give him that.

My cousin's wife got to hunt the same ranch he does, and also whacked a 190+ deer. Right out of the hay field. Guess I need to start asking her for mulie hunting advice...

No hay, wheat, alfalfa, oat fields, etc here. Just miles of sand, mesquite, and shinnery. Don't know Carter myself.

Your place actually sounds like a crappy place to hunt...

I'm certain there are private land setups for big mule deer....despite hunting them 30+ years, I have not bumped into them....must be in the wrong places.....

Course my biggest came off public land in Colorado....but I've been lucky on private ground, too.

I have also hunted unmolested and virtually unhunted mule deer in Canada, in regions with not 5% of the pressure they get on public or private land in the Lower 48.This country holds some very BIG mule deer by any definition.....the big boys are largely nocturnal as bats,and no pushovers...

Come to think of it, I have not hunted mature bucks anywhere that are "easy"......

I will bet it is as big a rodeo in JG's Sandhill Country as it is in the oakbrush jungles of SW Colorado,or the aspen thickets in the breaks of the Peace....

You think guys like Randy Ulmer go to crappy areas with the intent of hunting big bucks? There is a reason he is hunting places like NV and the strip. Same reason I have never ran into Chuck Adams hunting elk in an OTC Colorado unit...

You want to shoot big animals, you have to hunt where big animals are.

Nobody's disputing the fact that you must hunt where they live. I'm disputing the fact that you said and believe that's all there is to it, you need not have any knowledge of how to hunt big mule deer, and BS like that which is ridiculous. I would bet you don't have as much experience chasing them as you would lead us to believe, and as many here do including BobinNH.

Elementary my dear Watson........ THAT is like, Rule Number One ....cause ya can't kill....what ain't there...

I never thought Randy hunted crappy areas but I can tell you for a fact that the areas he hunts are tough to kill a deer in.


Ask me how I know...



Drummond

Flinch, where did you go?

Damnation what a buck!



He's scrambling for evidence.................which ain't there. That's a tough obstacle.

No, I said if you are good at mulie hunting, then the size is luck. Either you are a good hunter, in a good area, or not. I consider myself a good mulie hunter, and I have hunted places that I could only find a 2 point.

Big mule deer bucks are dumb...they always stop and look back at you before they go over the ridge....grin!

Seriously, the good big buck hunters I know and hunt with either kill hogs or nothing at all. They have standards and stick with them...and that means coming home empty handed way more than killing one. I would rather hunt an area that has one B&C buck per 200,000 acres than a place thats stacked full of 150 and 160" bucks.

I think it's an awesome place to hunt! Any area that has big ass mule deer is a great place to hunt

If the big bucks were there then luck is the only factor....................huh?



Not exactly the way you said it in the first place, but whatever.

No, there were no big bucks there...some units are just piss poor, no matter how you spin it.

Amen, amen and amen!

Let's be realistic...200,000 acres and only one good buck? No thanks. Chances are, if there are a ton of 160 bucks in a unit, there are a more than a few whoppers sneaking around too. Unless there is absolutely garbage genetics in that area.

Ever heard of the Bookcliff's?..

Here's one example some of you guys have seen here before...Christmas 2009


Than again Christmas 2010.......this is the same buck I believe all broken up obviously. You only see this buck during the rut, and he lives there. This pic is within 1/2 mile of where the video was shot.....an enormous bodied buck.