Looking for some real world experiences with this bullet of game as big as elk. I got a new rifle that shoots these into tiny groups, and getting a velocity of 3150. I have used the Barnes ttxs 120s with good results on elk but this rifle will only do about 1.5 inches with them. Let me know what you have killed with this bullet and how it worked for you,
Thanks,
CT
Try contacting Steve Timm aka-dogzapper on here. He knows that bullet and it's capabilities very well.
Clear threw an elk with a 7 Mag.
My wife shot a big doe at 19 yards once. Impact velocity was about 2950fps. Went through a full stomach, exploded the liver. and came to rest against the offside skin.Recovered bullet was about 0.6" and weighed 95gr. It also punches clean through antelope at 400 yards.
I'd still prefer the TTSX on elk. You are talking a 6" group at 400 yards with a 1.5" group at 100. Been years since my health allowed me to hunt them, but I still remember elk being pretty large animals.
True ive never recovered a ttsx yet on anything Ive shot with them
I saw one perform flawlessly out of a 7mm-08 on an enormous cow elk last november at around 280yds. I wasn't convinced until I witnessed the results. I had it in my head that it was a varmint bullet up until the shot.
In one side, blasted through both lungs with significant damage and a 1.5'' exit wound.
I'd pick the one that gave me the most confidence then forget about groups size and start climbing every hill in sight with a pack on and practice shooting from realistic elk shooting field positions.
Ralphie I been doing just that. I don't think you can ever get into good enough shape for elk hunting, especially in Idaho.
If a little second hand real world experience can be inserted..........................................................
I've posted the results of my .257 fallow/red cull already; but what might be useful is that my partner on the hunt used a 7mm WSM with 120 NBTs; loaded at 3500 plus with a bunch of RL19.
For whatever reason he hadn't realized that reds were on the table and that caused a bit of initial concern. He needn't have worried though, the little bullet proved to be a decisive killer of everything he pointed it at. I know he ordered another 500 as soon as we got home.
Much of bullet selection is a complex process, with a bit of experience, a bit of advice, a lot of hearsay, a bit of research (which often boils down to more hearsay), whatever the magazine article and its ad on the opposing page said, what shoots the best, and tempered by what would work the best if you had to shoot a rhinoceros.
Much of bullet selection is a complex process, with a bit of experience, a bit of advice, a lot of hearsay, a bit of research (which often boils down to more hearsay), whatever the magazine article and its ad on the opposing page said, what shoots the best, and tempered by what would work the best if you had to shoot a rhinoceros.
LOL, very true!
I run it at 3325 out of my .280AI and we have used it on 20 or so deer from 15 steps to 300 yards and they have all been DRT and we have yet to have a bullet not completely penetrate a deer.
Thank You Dogzapper, just what I was looking for. Lord willing I will be able to share a pic or two of my success after the season.
Thank You Dogzapper, just what I was looking for. Lord willing I will be able to share a pic or two of my success after the season.
My total pleasure, ctpa.
I wish you GREAT hunting and a fabulous adventure.
My post, which I thought was a rather informative one, has been deleted. Now the Internet Police won't be able to shout me down or insult me. Frankly, I never dreamed that sort of crazy could come from the great state of Iowa ,,, and I was wrong.
At least you, and about a hundred other folks, got the information you wanted from my many years afield.
Please never hesitate to contact me. As I said, I am seldom here because of the insults and shout-downs, but occasionally I check to see if there are PMs in my box. It may take a few weeks, but I will always get back to you (and the Internet Police will be deleted with frickin' absolute prejudice)
God Bless You,
Steve
Steve,
I caught your post before it was deleted. I just want to say thanks for sharing your experience.
Seems many good posters have called it quits for the reasons you have cited.
Sad deal.
Steve,
I caught your post before it was deleted. I just want to say thanks for sharing your experience.
Seems many good posters have called it quits for the reasons you have cited.
Sad deal.
Yep, and it sucks.
This was a fabulous site for many years and I loved it, as did you.
Frankly, the ones who insult and shout down should be ejected from the 24HCF, but that isn't happening ... to the sadness of many of us old-timers.
Please send me a PM and I'll send back my personal e-mail. You are free to contact me at any time and I'd be delighted to help you, or just plain "rap," at any time.
Your friend Steve
dogzapper
I have not been a member as long as you, but have enjoyed the information and wisdom of your posts. I have always counted on your no BS, sound, practical advise coming from years years of in the field experience (both here and from VM mag.) I fear the 'fire has been taken over by many a fire breathing keyboard hunter bad mouthing all who haven't drank their particular flavor of Koolaid.
Steve: Just got on the site and saw your deleted post. Who deleted it and why?????
Can't imagine you posting anything so bad that it would be censored, especially considering the crap that is allowed on this forum.
I've always looked forward to your posts and learned a lot from them.
Not the least of which was your experience with 120gr BTips, which I now use in my 280, thanks to you!
Not the least of which was your experience with 120gr BTips, which I now use in my 280, thanks to you!
Excellent! Long live the 280 !!
Friend pointed me in the direction of this thread last night. It was ProudDad who recommended the 7mm-08 and talking to DogZapper about the virtues of 120 grain NBT, lead me down the path of reloading that cartridge with that particular bullet. My wife at the time drew a NM cow tag. In the late firearm season; she t-boned a big cow elk through both shoulders @ 235 yrds with that 120 gr. NBT. The impact spun that elk 180 and dropped it right there. When we quartered the elk, I found that bullet just under the skin on the far side in almost a perfect mushroom. Accuracy wise at the range it was a phenomenal bullet as well as being an incredible hunting bullet.
I prefer the 140 accubond, but loaded up some 120 BT's for my nephew's first rifle, a Remington 700 in 7-08. He's not a very big kid, so I thought I would start him with something that had modest recoil.
Got a moderate load of H380 to shoot the 120's very well, chrono says 2825 fps.
Had him apply for a NR cow permit here in Wyoming last year and he got his first elk with the above set up, about 70 yards, broke the on-shoulder and recovered the bullet just under the hide on the off-side. Did very well, the cow only took about 10 steps, then flipped over backwards and that was that.
You can see the blood on the shoulder, just perfect for a heart shot, which it went directly through.
![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/elkhunting/websize/20161014_1808552.jpg)
Recovered bullet, didn't weigh it, but went through plenty of bone.
![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/newpictures/websize/2016101795120055.jpg)
My nephew has also taken a deer with the 120 BT's as well, no problems at all. Not a huge sample size, but I talked with plenty of people that have used the 120's and they never had any problems. I see no reason to change things up for a while...
hooray for that kid, and tip of the hat to you for taking him. look at the fire in his eyes! he can't believe he's an elk hunter now!
hooray for that kid, and tip of the hat to you for taking him. look at the fire in his eyes! he can't believe he's an elk hunter now!
+1
In another BT thread in the Reloading forum Mule Deer identified the 120 7MM BT as one of the relatively few with a heavy jacket.
Not quite. Its one of the BT's with a VERY heavy jacket, comprising around 2/3 of the total bullet weight. Generally these models retain at least 60% of their original weight, even if they lose the lead core. This is apparently what baffles some hunters, because they've long believed any bullet that loses won't penetrate deeply.
But all the "hunting" BT's (as opposed to varmint models) have far heavier jackets than other cup-and-core bullets. Those I've recovered retain around 50% of their weight, give or take 10%--about like the Hornady Interlocks I've recovered.
I've not sectioned a lot of Ballistic tips. Of the ones I have the .30 180 grain was most impressive. I'd have to say the 150 grain .284 was maybe the least impressive. You fellas have me thinking I should try a few 120s in my 280AI. Might be a real hum dinger. It currently loves 140 TTSXs. Hard to stray from those though.
Otter,
The thickness of the jacket isn't the entire story. The hardness of the core also affects expansion.
The 7mm 120's and 150's have the same base thickness. Or at least they used to. Bullet manufacturers often tweak their designs.
This got me curious, so I just sectioned a 120 and 150. The base of the 150 was actually a little thicker than the 120's. though not by much--but the 150's were a batch from a year or two ago, and the 120's a little older.
The 120's might retain a higher percentage of their weight, but the 150's often aren't driven as fast so might retain more.
Most of you have seen these pictures from the past. I don't know how the picture quality will be now since they had to be made smaller. Yet, this is what a 7mm 120 grain nosler ballistic tip will do to an elk.
Description: Cow elk scapula, 7mm-08, 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip (235 yard shot)
How does this bullet perform at lower impact velocities, say around 2200 fps? Enough expansion on deer or antelope on just the rib cage?
I don't know velocities as I haven't run them through a chronograph, but I am loading the 120 BT's in reduced-recoil loads using 25.5 gr. of R4759 for our daughter's 7mm-08. Accuracy is excellent and the results on deer have been very good even at the lower velocity, I just don't know exactly how fast or slow that is.
LNF150
Are those onside and offside scapulas of the same elk or separate animals?
It was a one shot, broadside, through and through on that cow elk. Between the dime and recovered bullet is the entrance hole. Above the quarter is the hole it left exiting the offside scapula after passing through the elk's chest. Then, the bullet stopped just on the inside of the skin passed the big hole and shoulder muscle.
"Its one of the BT's with a VERY heavy jacket, comprising around 2/3 of the total bullet weight."
Does anyone have a list of what bullets have the "very heavy jacket"?
Thought I posted it here, but evidently it was an another thread about Ballistic Tips. These I know about by sectioning bullets: 7mm 120; 165, 168 and 180 .30; 180 8mm; 200 .338. The 200 .338 is now only available in the Ballistic Silvertip version, but despite the black coating and.silver plastic tip, it's the same jacket and core as the plain 200 Ballistic Tip. The 150 7mm also has a pretty heavy jacket, but I don't know if it's 2/3 of the bullet weight.
I would also be pretty sure the newer 220-grain .30 and 300-grain .458 Ballistic Tip and Ballistic Silvertip bullets also have very heavy jackets.
All of this could change. Nosler didn't make any major announcement about beefing up the jackets of the 165-180 .30 calibers. Instead they just went ahead and did it, because so many hunters insisted on hunting larger game with those bullets. But the 200-grain .338 was introduced in the early 1990's, and had the very heavy jacket from the beginning. I know this because Nosler sent me some to test back then. I shot some side-by-side with 210 Partitions into dry newspaper, my standard heavy-duty media for testing bullets, and the 200 BT's penetrated about 90% as deeply as the 210 Partitions. Next I tested them on big game, mostly larger than deer, and they penetrated very deeply. In fact the only one I recovered was several years later, when I shot a mature gemsbok bull, weighing around 450 pounds, in the right shoulder as it quartered strongly toward me. The bullet was recovered from under the hide of the left ham, retaining 59.4% of its weight.
The very heavy-jacket .30's and the 180 8mm are constructed the same way. There was also a very brief period when Nosler made 225 .358, 250 9.8 and 260 .375 Ballistic Tips, but soon after they were introduced Nosler changed them into AccuBonds. However, even when not bonded the 260 .375 still penetrated very well. I field-tested it in Africa on a cull hunt in 2002, loaded to around 2700 fps from a .375 H&H. Among other things it shot lengthwise through springbok, and broke both shoulders of a gemsbok bull weighing 550 pounds on a certified scale--in both instances exiting.
One of the interesting aspects of all this while Nosler was introducing these initial heavy-jacket Ballistic Tips, a lot of hunters continued to believe they would "blow up," because they were Ballistic Tips. Of course, those hunters never tried them.
Excellent!
Thank you, sir!
Some of them do indeed have a lot of heavy jacket in the construction. I shot a deer a few years ago quartering hard away and the 168gr .30cal NBT would up in the neck, just under the hide. When I cut the hide, the jacket was there, with some of the lead core lying next to it. The remaining jacket weighed 69gr, which is a little over 40% of the original bullet weight, and this is after expansion, so I'd not be surprised if that bullet is actually close to 50/50 jacket/core. It's a great performer on deer and hogs at .308win speeds.
Is there a certain grain 6.5mm ballistic tip with a thicker jacket that any one knows about?
Ok I have to ask what was deleted? And why/who deleted it.
My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/49989.jpg)
Is there a certain grain 6.5mm ballistic tip with a thicker jacket that any one knows about?
Not sure about that, but the 130gr AB is rather sturdy in my experience. I've heard others here report the same.
I believe the 6.5mm 120 gr is similar to the 7mm 120 BT.
I believe the 6.5mm 120 gr is similar to the 7mm 120 BT.
I'm not so sure about that.
My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.
Between you and the moose, she shot the better looking one..... grin
My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.
Between you and the moose, she shot the better looking one..... grin
The hate is strong with this one... lol
I believe the 6.5mm 120 gr is similar to the 7mm 120 BT.
I'm not so sure about that.
I digress; let's talk about the 6.5-.280 Ackley.
Gosh, I don't even know the year.
I was retired from our jewelry store, so it was after 1992. Chub Eastman was still the Sales Manager at Nosler. I still was writing at Varmint Hunter, a Contributing Editorship I literally walked away from in 2004. It was way before 2004 though, because it was back when Darrell Holland and I had a friendly working relationship (don't ask, please). And it was still back in the days when Chub and I went to slay whitetail, mulies and mooses in Alberta.
Just for the heck of it, let's call it the 1993 or 1994.
Chub Eastman, my longtime good friend and hunting partner, gave me a call one day. Chub wanted me to suggest/design a cartridge that would work through a pre-'64 Winchester action that he had. Generally, his request was for a .264" round that would give the maximum performance out of the basic .30-'06 case. Chub is not allergic to fireforming, so Ackley influence was fine.
So, how do you get the mostest bang for the buck out of the basic '06 case???? The largest case volume of the family is the .280 Remington, owing to the shoulder being .051" forward of the standard round.
The obvious answer to Chub's request was simply to make a .264" round on the .280 Ackley case. Yes, we could have gone for a 6.5 Gibbs, but creating a surragate shoulder or bullet jamming or other heroics were not something I wanted to do.
At the time, Darrell Holland was my go-to gunsmith, so I had Darrell order a 6.5-.280 Ackley reamer from Hugh Hendriksen (the absolute best!!!) and I paid for half of the reamer. I would assume that Chub paid for the other half.
The reamer was marked .264 THE Express. The "THE" nomenclature reportedly stands for Timm, Holland and Eastman. I always thought that the THE name sucked.
Chub and I both had rifles built in 6.5 -.280 Ackley. Chub's was on his Model 70 action and I believe that he used a Pac-Nor barrel. Knowing Chub, he probably went for a longish barrel and I believe that his stock was one of those yukky MPI abortions.
Mine was on a Remington 700 BDL, with a three-contour twenty-four inch Schneider 1-10" stainless barrel, with a pillar-bedded McMillan Remington Classic stock. My rifle was impeccably done, by any standards.
I guess Chub didn't fancy the THE name any more than I did because his barrel is marked 6.5 Blowhole Express.
My barrel had more character by half because my chamber designation is .264 Brainfart Express. If nothing, Chub and I are comics to the core. The Two Stooges, actually. grin
I developed the data; the rifles shot wonderfully and they shot fast.
Please, no flaming, Chub and I kill stuff; we have proven it in the field and we use what works.
There were two standout loads. The first featured a 120 Ballistic Tip with RL-22 and the muzzle velocity was 3,250 fps. The second was with the 125-grain Partition, again with RL-22, and the MV was 3,200 fps.
Over the years, I watched Chub murder fully a half-dozen Alberta bull moose with the 120 Ballistic Tip in the 6.5 Blowhole. Each moose needed a single shot and they died most rickey-tick. Dead right friggin' there, in fact.
How many huge Alberta whitetail did he kill? Crap, I don't know ... maybe a dozen. They simply died most sincerely dead with the 120 Ballistic. And with no or very little blood-shooting of meat.
I don't believe that either of us have ever recovered a 120 Ballistic; they basically go clear through both mooses and deer, leaving an exit of one- to two-inches. They destroy things that sustain life in the critter, they exit and then they go into a low orbit of the earth.
Very late in the game, Nosler's ballistics buy, Matt Smith, had Holland build him a rifle. Matt was the replacement for Gail Root, Nosler's legendary bullet designer and ballistics dude. Matt was a great guy and he had access to Oregon's GI Ranch, so he was able to kill lots of animals with his rifle.
For those who know Oregon, the GI Ranch is beyond Hampton, kinda in the Glass Buttes, Riley area. It's a huge ranch and permission is like impossible.
Matt fancied the 100 Ballistic tip and he killed mule deer and bull elk that all of the rest of us only dream about with the combination. I've seen photos of Matt with 200+++ point mulies and bull elk that give me the dry humps without the aid of Viagra.
How fast was Matt pushing the 100??? Well, he's young and he's ballistically smart, so probably very, very fast. And, more to the point, the bullet worked for him in a most magnificent way.
The rest of the story: Chub is still murdering animals with his rifle, I guess. I've lost touch with Matt, but it would be hard for me to believe that he would abandon a "good luck rifle" like that. Me? Well, I drifed back to the .280 Ackley, the .25-'06 and a brief flirtation with the 6.5-'06 Ackley.
Currently, I'm kind of quarter-bore guy; in love with the .25-'06 and my new, lovely and totally-unfired .257 Weatherby.
Truth to tell, my shoulder did not really survive surgery well three years ago and I've only fired a few rounds since that time. It is painful in the extreme to shoot a single round and I'm completely incapable of getting big critters out of the field, in the truck and butchered, so I've kinda left the field.
And that's fine. Lord knows, I've killed enough.
[b][/b]
My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.
There aint nothing wrong with that!! It's the perfect bullet/cartridge combination.
The 6.5mm version has been a fine killer at my deer camp too so I'm happy with it, but I'm still not sure its jacket is as thick as the 7mm version.
It's easy to find out how thick the jackets are on various Ballistic Tips, using at least a couple of methods. One is to put the bullet sideways in a vise and then file it down until the core shows. The other is to dump one in a pot of melted lead. In a few seconds, you can fish the empty jacket out and weigh it.
I haven't done either with the 6.5 120, but did recover one from an animal, a pronghorn doe. Muzzle velocity was 3100 fps, and the doe was quartering toward me at 250 yards. The bullet was found under the hide at the front edge of the hindquarter on the opposite side, retaining 59.4% of its weight.
This with give you an idea how the jacket of the new Ballistic Tips looks.They seem to look like the jacket on an Accubond.Some may even be the same bullet without the bonding.Some may also vary depending on the caliber and bullet weight.I quit shooting them years ago in the early 90's,but these days it's about all I ever shoot.They are great bullets.
Ballistic Tip
![[Linked Image]](https://s6.postimg.org/omgw00rrx/bb_nosler_ballistic_tip.jpg)
Partition,Ballistic Tip,Accubond,E-Tip
![[Linked Image]](https://s6.postimg.org/7agjekyal/NOSLER_CS.jpg)
Older style Ballistic Tips
![[Linked Image]](https://s6.postimg.org/5wowj9z19/old_nbt.jpg)
There's a reason Nosler doesn't make a 120 grain Partition or Accubond in 7mm. The BT performance mirrors that of the other two, so they don't make the others.
P
79S, Great picture. đź‘Ť
Mule Deer, Great information as usual and thank you, I have several boxes of 200gr .338 that shoot great but I never reached for them. I guess when I needed the confidence of that caliber I grabbed 225gr Trophy bonded or 225 A-Frames which both shot to the same POI. I may have to try the BT if I do a cow hunt to help a farmer friend this year.
Dogzapper, It's good to see you around and your input and experience is always appreciated. Thanks
SU35
Thanks for that DZ qoute. I really miss his writing now that VM has gone over the hill. Have always wanted a Blow Hole Express.
Very late in the game, Nosler's ballistics buy, Matt Smith
I talked with Matt on a few occasions when he was still with Nosler. (wish he still was)
He swore by the 26/120 and 28/120 BT's.
I asked him how they would perform on big game out to 700 yds,
He said no problem, use them, they would work great. Matt was no nonsense in these matters and he spoke
from personal experience.
I have not personally used either bullet on game, having always opted for the Partition. I don't doubt his or DZ word on the matter.
I believe the 6.5mm 120 gr is similar to the 7mm 120 BT.
I'm not so sure about that.
I digress; let's talk about the 6.5-.280 Ackley.
Gosh, I don't even know the year.
I was retired from our jewelry store, so it was after 1992. Chub Eastman was still the Sales Manager at Nosler. I still was writing at Varmint Hunter, a Contributing Editorship I literally walked away from in 2004. It was way before 2004 though, because it was back when Darrell Holland and I had a friendly working relationship (don't ask, please). And it was still back in the days when Chub and I went to slay whitetail, mulies and mooses in Alberta.
Just for the heck of it, let's call it the 1993 or 1994.
Chub Eastman, my longtime good friend and hunting partner, gave me a call one day. Chub wanted me to suggest/design a cartridge that would work through a pre-'64 Winchester action that he had. Generally, his request was for a .264" round that would give the maximum performance out of the basic .30-'06 case. Chub is not allergic to fireforming, so Ackley influence was fine.
So, how do you get the mostest bang for the buck out of the basic '06 case???? The largest case volume of the family is the .280 Remington, owing to the shoulder being .051" forward of the standard round.
The obvious answer to Chub's request was simply to make a .264" round on the .280 Ackley case. Yes, we could have gone for a 6.5 Gibbs, but creating a surragate shoulder or bullet jamming or other heroics were not something I wanted to do.
At the time, Darrell Holland was my go-to gunsmith, so I had Darrell order a 6.5-.280 Ackley reamer from Hugh Hendriksen (the absolute best!!!) and I paid for half of the reamer. I would assume that Chub paid for the other half.
The reamer was marked .264 THE Express. The "THE" nomenclature reportedly stands for Timm, Holland and Eastman. I always thought that the THE name sucked.
Chub and I both had rifles built in 6.5 -.280 Ackley. Chub's was on his Model 70 action and I believe that he used a Pac-Nor barrel. Knowing Chub, he probably went for a longish barrel and I believe that his stock was one of those yukky MPI abortions.
Mine was on a Remington 700 BDL, with a three-contour twenty-four inch Schneider 1-10" stainless barrel, with a pillar-bedded McMillan Remington Classic stock. My rifle was impeccably done, by any standards.
I guess Chub didn't fancy the THE name any more than I did because his barrel is marked 6.5 Blowhole Express.
My barrel had more character by half because my chamber designation is .264 Brainfart Express. If nothing, Chub and I are comics to the core. The Two Stooges, actually. grin
I developed the data; the rifles shot wonderfully and they shot fast.
Please, no flaming, Chub and I kill stuff; we have proven it in the field and we use what works.
There were two standout loads. The first featured a 120 Ballistic Tip with RL-22 and the muzzle velocity was 3,250 fps. The second was with the 125-grain Partition, again with RL-22, and the MV was 3,200 fps.
Over the years, I watched Chub murder fully a half-dozen Alberta bull moose with the 120 Ballistic Tip in the 6.5 Blowhole. Each moose needed a single shot and they died most rickey-tick. Dead right friggin' there, in fact.
How many huge Alberta whitetail did he kill? Crap, I don't know ... maybe a dozen. They simply died most sincerely dead with the 120 Ballistic. And with no or very little blood-shooting of meat.
I don't believe that either of us have ever recovered a 120 Ballistic; they basically go clear through both mooses and deer, leaving an exit of one- to two-inches. They destroy things that sustain life in the critter, they exit and then they go into a low orbit of the earth.
Very late in the game, Nosler's ballistics buy, Matt Smith, had Holland build him a rifle. Matt was the replacement for Gail Root, Nosler's legendary bullet designer and ballistics dude. Matt was a great guy and he had access to Oregon's GI Ranch, so he was able to kill lots of animals with his rifle.
For those who know Oregon, the GI Ranch is beyond Hampton, kinda in the Glass Buttes, Riley area. It's a huge ranch and permission is like impossible.
Matt fancied the 100 Ballistic tip and he killed mule deer and bull elk that all of the rest of us only dream about with the combination. I've seen photos of Matt with 200+++ point mulies and bull elk that give me the dry humps without the aid of Viagra.
How fast was Matt pushing the 100??? Well, he's young and he's ballistically smart, so probably very, very fast. And, more to the point, the bullet worked for him in a most magnificent way.
The rest of the story: Chub is still murdering animals with his rifle, I guess. I've lost touch with Matt, but it would be hard for me to believe that he would abandon a "good luck rifle" like that. Me? Well, I drifed back to the .280 Ackley, the .25-'06 and a brief flirtation with the 6.5-'06 Ackley.
Currently, I'm kind of quarter-bore guy; in love with the .25-'06 and my new, lovely and totally-unfired .257 Weatherby.
Truth to tell, my shoulder did not really survive surgery well three years ago and I've only fired a few rounds since that time. It is painful in the extreme to shoot a single round and I'm completely incapable of getting big critters out of the field, in the truck and butchered, so I've kinda left the field.
And that's fine. Lord knows, I've killed enough.
[b][/b]
Mark for future reference. Thanks for posting this vintage post.
This is a closer picture of the 7mm 120 gr. nbt bullet that downed that NM cow elk.
![[Linked Image]](https://s20.postimg.org/qwoycz0od/120_gr._nbt.jpg)
My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.
Between you and the moose, she shot the better looking one..... grin
The hate is strong with this one... lol
No hate just honesty! How's Korea going? Enjoying the soju?
Don't drink much soju [bleep] will grab you by the ass before you know it.. korea is korea I have 105 days left here but who's counting.
This isn't 1985 Korea. Majority of those places have been shut down. You have to go way out of your way to find a place that sells dog meat. They say the Korean government did a big shutdown of those places in Seoul prior to 1988 Olympic Games.
Older style Ballistic Tips
I'm pretty sure that the third picture has been posted here numerous times and it is used as an example to show the current 150 vs. 120. They (Nosler) basically used the same jacket, just cut it down a bit to make it a 120, that's what causes the thicker jacket. The pic can be deceiving though.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
I don't believe they make a longer jacket and cut it down. Rather, they start with the same amount of material in the blank as would be used for a heavier/longer bullet. Then by not drawing it as far the same material is distributed over a shorter span, and hence the thickness is greater.
I don't believe they make a longer jacket and cut it down. Rather, they start with the same amount of material in the blank as would be used for a heavier/longer bullet. Then by not drawing it as far the same material is distributed over a shorter span, and hence the thickness is greater.
True. You worded it way better than I could.
Dogzapper rules !!!! Much enjoy anything he has to say.
Older style Ballistic Tips
I'm pretty sure that the third picture has been posted here numerous times and it is used as an example to show the current 150 vs. 120. They (Nosler) basically used the same jacket, just cut it down a bit to make it a 120, that's what causes the thicker jacket. The pic can be deceiving though.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
I heard they use the 140 jacket, not 150, to make the 120. Can anyone confirm?
P
My belief is that they use the same blank to make the 120 and 140 jackets.
Shot a pile of Nebraska deer with those bullets out of a 280 and two 7mm-08s. Love them.Also use the 6.5 120s out of a 6.5x55 and a 260
Not quite. Its one of the BT's with a VERY heavy jacket, comprising around 2/3 of the total bullet weight. Generally these models retain at least 60% of their original weight, even if they lose the lead core. This is apparently what baffles some hunters, because they've long believed any bullet that loses won't penetrate deeply.
But all the "hunting" BT's (as opposed to varmint models) have far heavier jackets than other cup-and-core bullets. Those I've recovered retain around 50% of their weight, give or take 10%--about like the Hornady Interlocks I've recovered.
Sorry for dragging this up from the basement but......anyway.
I just bought my first Nosler 120gr .284 ballistic tips, basically because of MD's post quoted.
While there is a photo of the thick jacket online, the one thing I saw that verifies it without shaving one down is the fact that the Nosler 120gr BT is exactly the same length as my Remington Core Lokt .284 140gr PSP. 1.145-1.15" . The BT is a boat tail, of course, and the Core Lokt is not but not a huge factor since the boat tail not a radical one.
Makes perfect sense with less lead, more jacket........but I wasn't expecting there to be enough difference to make it similar in size to 140 grain cup and core standard bullets.
Just fyi The 120gr BT 's BC is reported to be .417 The Remington 140gr Core Lokt's .388
It should be one to load up to screamer stage and not worry about bullet blow - up.........IMO.
God Bless
Steve
I've shot a number of deer and antelope with the 120 BT from my 7-08. Always great performance and always an exit from 30-yds out to about 400 yds. Hard not to like them.
My belief is that they use the same blank to make the 120 and 140 jackets.
This is my understanding and also what I have heard from various authorities. Wish I had a photo but the 120 BT looks just like you had trimmed a 140 BT jacket down from the nose end. So the 120 has a higher percentage of cupro-nickle to lead than the 140. Maybe some enterprising person will do the meltdown test and weigh the jackets, some one probably already has. I saw a comparison doing this in Handloader's Digest but don't believe both BTs were included, I'll try to find it.
Anyway if I ever whittle down my stock pile of Accubonds and Interbonds the BT will get a chance. Got them ready to go in 6mm & 6.5 so a 7mm trifecta would be a good way to go.
The jackets are gilding metal, not cupronickel.
The Nosler jackets are extruded, so I do not believe it's a blank made into a 140 jacket and then trimmed to the 120 length. Rather I believe it's the same blank to start, but it doesn't get extruded to the same length. Hence it remains thicker to the tip end of the side walls.
I think, IIRC, MD did melt out the core before? His earlier post on the first page of this thread indicates the jacket is around 60 percent of the weight.
Most have but for those whom have not seen the photo of one shaved down on the side, a photo is shown in MD's article below just past half way down.
https://gunsmagazine.com/hypervelocity-hunting/Some enterprising soul could maybe clip the photo to post here........if desired.
God Bless
Here it is. It's been my go to bullet in the 7-08. Amazing results
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/78153.jpg)
The jackets are gilding metal, not cupronickel.
The Nosler jackets are extruded, so I do not believe it's a blank made into a 140 jacket and then trimmed to the 120 length. Rather I believe it's the same blank to start, but it doesn't get extruded to the same length. Hence it remains thicker to the tip end of the side walls.
Whatever it is, it is a deer killing machine.
Little background info here. Maybe some of the guys that have been around here awhile may remember, maybe not.
The 120 NBT was originally developed in the 7MM for silhouette shooting. Didn't have enough weight to knock over rams, so Nosler beefed up the jacket to add weight and strength. Thus the thicker jacket. Just so happens, it turned out to be an awesome hunting bullet. (At least that's the story that was going around 10 years ago)
Those of you that remember when I used to post alot, remember many pictures of many different types of game...expired because of my 708(The Ram Slammer) and a 120 NBT.
I still shoot them, and they still kill just as effectively as ever.
The jackets are gilding metal, not cupronickel.
The Nosler jackets are extruded, so I do not believe it's a blank made into a 140 jacket and then trimmed to the 120 length. Rather I believe it's the same blank to start, but it doesn't get extruded to the same length. Hence it remains thicker to the tip end of the side walls.
Whatever it is, it is a deer killing machine.
Sure is, I've seen your posts.
We killed a slug of deer with the 7 rm with the 120g Nosler bT
72-73g of R22
cci 250*****
Rem case
seat bullet to touch the lands
expect tiny groups
Bullets NEVER blow up! Close or Far!
I guess I'm the odd man out, I got completed different results last year shooting it at 2975 fps out of a 7mm-08. Shot a average W/T Doe broadside through the lungs at 200 yards across an open field. There was no sign of a hit. I was afraid to shoot again, as the shot was so steady I felt the scope was off and I couldn't trust my sight. I watch her walking about 200 yard till she was out of sight. I immediately went to where she stood when I shot, and could find any blood or any other sign, now it was at dusk. I walked her path and found her not far from where she went out of sight dead. My buddy came over in just a few minutes. I was looking and honestly could not find an entrance or exit hole. The second I started to core her butt, blood just gushed out. My friend had some choice adjectives. Field dressing her it looked like she had been shot with a varmint bullet, every organ was a mess and fragments everywhere. I found the bullet hole from the inside was right where I aimed, as I was sighted in for 200 yards. I should have taken a lot of pictures, as I've never seen anything like it and I've killed a lot of deer with a lot of different weapons. In this particular rifle I've mostly used Barnes and Partitions, and it's always been DRT. I decided to try the 120 grain BT due to it's glowing recommendations here, but the example of one is enough for me. I'd never use it again. I know read others who reported similar experiences were always shouted down that they used "old" bullets before they beefed them up. Well I purchased the bullets from Midway in 2017, so I'd say they were new. Honestly if I didn't see it and someone described this to me, I'd probably think it was BS, but I that's what happened. I would have liked to have loved that bullet as it consistently shot 1/2 groups, but I've found I can get 2930 with a 140 grain Partition max load of Big Game and 1 inch groups so I'm good.
I wish I had thousands of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. They are the most accurate bullet I’ve ever used in my 7mm-08s and work great on whitetails. Two years ago at 120 yds. and last year at 225. Couldn’t ask for better performance at 3100 fps. Also worked pretty well on a coyote at a little over 300 yds. After the shot, both deer went about 20 yds. and dropped. The coyote was DRT. Never used on anything bigger, but I have every confidence in this bullet!
Don't drink much soju [bleep] will grab you by the ass before you know it..
This and that Kim Chi with rotten Oysters in it will give you pants ripping flatulence, and then those cab rides with the military drivers that think they are not doing their job unless they get the vehicle on two wheels.
Back to the original post: 120 & 7mm damn good, just don't eat that more funky Kim Chi before going into the blind and all will be well.
Little background info here. Maybe some of the guys that have been around here awhile may remember, maybe not.
The 120 NBT was originally developed in the 7MM for silhouette shooting. Didn't have enough weight to knock over rams, so Nosler beefed up the jacket to add weight and strength. Thus the thicker jacket. Just so happens, it turned out to be an awesome hunting bullet. (At least that's the story that was going around 10 years ago)
Those of you that remember when I used to post alot, remember many pictures of many different types of game...expired because of my 708(The Ram Slammer) and a 120 NBT.
I still shoot them, and they still kill just as effectively as ever.
I still remember your posts of your hunting adventures and pictures. It made me a believer in that little 120 gr. nbt bullet that could, did and still does. I know what they will do to an elk and I still reload those bullets.
Just wish that whole series of what you posted was a sticky in and of itself.
Thanks for the kind words.
I went thru some pictures, and was going to post them...but they all had to be resized for the file manager.
Suffice to say, I have used that neat little bullet to take game all over the US, Canada, and Alaska. Sheep, goat, Audad, Oryx, deer, hogs, coyotes, fox, etc., etc. I've never lost an animal that was hit with a 120 NBT. All in a 708. It's a very reliable combination for big game in the US.
I wish I had thousands of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. They are the most accurate bullet I’ve ever used in my 7mm-08s and work great on whitetails. Two years ago at 120 yds. and last year at 225. Couldn’t ask for better performance at 3100 fps. Also worked pretty well on a coyote at a little over 300 yds. After the shot, both deer went about 20 yds. and dropped. The coyote was DRT. Never used on anything bigger, but I have every confidence in this bullet!
Hey Doug,
SPS has some blems available now!
I wish I had thousands of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. They are the most accurate bullet I’ve ever used in my 7mm-08s and work great on whitetails. Two years ago at 120 yds. and last year at 225. Couldn’t ask for better performance at 3100 fps. Also worked pretty well on a coyote at a little over 300 yds. After the shot, both deer went about 20 yds. and dropped. The coyote was DRT. Never used on anything bigger, but I have every confidence in this bullet!
Hey Doug,
SPS has some blems available now!
Out of stock
P
A few years ago Nosler ran a bunch of 120 BT with a blue tip instead of red. They sold them as a special run, but still over half off of new. I called them Blue Meanies. I bought 20 boxes.
![[Linked Image]](http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w84/pharmseller/C86A3EDC-C16F-4435-95F1-E9440EF40FC7_zpsx1egqwhd.jpeg)
They are very consistent on the comparator, varying very little, if at all, from .561”. They shoot great, too. The problem I have (if you can call it that) is that the darn 140 Partitions and 150 ELDX shoot just as well.
P
A few years ago Nosler ran a bunch of 120 BT with a blue tip instead of red. They sold them as a special run, but still over half off of new. I called them Blue Meanies. I bought 20 boxes.
P
I did the same.
I wish I had thousands of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. They are the most accurate bullet I’ve ever used in my 7mm-08s and work great on whitetails. Two years ago at 120 yds. and last year at 225. Couldn’t ask for better performance at 3100 fps. Also worked pretty well on a coyote at a little over 300 yds. After the shot, both deer went about 20 yds. and dropped. The coyote was DRT. Never used on anything bigger, but I have every confidence in this bullet!
Hey Doug,
SPS has some blems available now!
Thanks Marty, but I was too slow. I didn’t see your post until yesterday and they were already out of stock.
I wish I had thousands of the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. They are the most accurate bullet I’ve ever used in my 7mm-08s and work great on whitetails. Two years ago at 120 yds. and last year at 225. Couldn’t ask for better performance at 3100 fps. Also worked pretty well on a coyote at a little over 300 yds. After the shot, both deer went about 20 yds. and dropped. The coyote was DRT. Never used on anything bigger, but I have every confidence in this bullet!
Hey Doug,
SPS has some blems available now!
Thanks Marty, but I was too slow. I didn’t see your post until yesterday and they were already out of stock.
Sps has them frequently.
P
I guess I'm the odd man out, I got completed different results last year shooting it at 2975 fps out of a 7mm-08. Shot a average W/T Doe broadside through the lungs at 200 yards across an open field. There was no sign of a hit. I was afraid to shoot again, as the shot was so steady I felt the scope was off and I couldn't trust my sight. I watch her walking about 200 yard till she was out of sight. I immediately went to where she stood when I shot, and could find any blood or any other sign, now it was at dusk. I walked her path and found her not far from where she went out of sight dead. My buddy came over in just a few minutes. I was looking and honestly could not find an entrance or exit hole. The second I started to core her butt, blood just gushed out. My friend had some choice adjectives. Field dressing her it looked like she had been shot with a varmint bullet, every organ was a mess and fragments everywhere. I found the bullet hole from the inside was right where I aimed, as I was sighted in for 200 yards. I should have taken a lot of pictures, as I've never seen anything like it and I've killed a lot of deer with a lot of different weapons. In this particular rifle I've mostly used Barnes and Partitions, and it's always been DRT. I decided to try the 120 grain BT due to it's glowing recommendations here, but the example of one is enough for me. I'd never use it again. I know read others who reported similar experiences were always shouted down that they used "old" bullets before they beefed them up. Well I purchased the bullets from Midway in 2017, so I'd say they were new. Honestly if I didn't see it and someone described this to me, I'd probably think it was BS, but I that's what happened. I would have liked to have loved that bullet as it consistently shot 1/2 groups, but I've found I can get 2930 with a 140 grain Partition max load of Big Game and 1 inch groups so I'm good.
Well, it's kinda like claiming I've seen bigfoot but my one and only so far experience with the 120BT was mixed good and bad. Good, because I was examining the dead deer that took the round but bad because the bullet seems to have totally self destructed. Load for my wife's 7mm-08 Abolt Micro 20" barrel is 40gr RlL15. Not exactly hot. She shot a whitetail buck that weighed right at 170 lbs in the spine just in front of the left shoulder at what looked like 60 yards or so. Inside there was a void about 2" around where that much spine used to be, headed in the direction of the right shoulder. But that was it. Just a big hole ending before it got into the off shoulder with various bits of bullet and jacket scattered about. Never even got to the shoulder after blowing out the neck spine. We skinned and butchered the deer ourselves so had ample opportunity to search. Bullet just did it's job then self destructed. We'll try it again this year along with my Model 7 Stainless 7mm-08 loaded with 45gr of Varget. Maybe she pulled the trigger too hard.
Looking for some real world experiences with this bullet of game as big as elk. I got a new rifle that shoots these into tiny groups, and getting a velocity of 3150. I have used the Barnes ttxs 120s with good results on elk but this rifle will only do about 1.5 inches with them. Let me know what you have killed with this bullet and how it worked for you,
Thanks,
CT
Remington 700 7 Mag, Browning A bolts
Jump the bullet .050 from the Lands to start.
Try this load:
120g tipped tripple shock or Tsx
Rem brass
CCI 250 Primer
71-73g R#22
expect tiny groups when you get toward a max load, tiny. Remington 700's love this load
with the 140g ttxx
Rem brass
Rem 9 1/2
bullet seated .040 off the lands
64-66g of IMR 4350
Expect the bullets to be touching with the right powder charge
66-68g of R#22 with a cci 250 may give you the same small tiny groups
Note: 120g tsx will not stop in an elk, 90% of the time
We shot a lot of deer with the 120g nosler ballistic tip, they are tough, but half never go through the deer. They flop within 40 yards as their innards are blended.
When I did not know any better, I killed two big bulls with 140g nosler ballistic tips, the first lot out on the market. Jeez, they died in a hurry wth the 7 Mag Browning A bolt!
I guess I'm the odd man out, I got completed different results last year shooting it at 2975 fps out of a 7mm-08. Shot a average W/T Doe broadside through the lungs at 200 yards across an open field. There was no sign of a hit. I was afraid to shoot again, as the shot was so steady I felt the scope was off and I couldn't trust my sight. I watch her walking about 200 yard till she was out of sight. I immediately went to where she stood when I shot, and could find any blood or any other sign, now it was at dusk. I walked her path and found her not far from where she went out of sight dead. My buddy came over in just a few minutes. I was looking and honestly could not find an entrance or exit hole. The second I started to core her butt, blood just gushed out. My friend had some choice adjectives. Field dressing her it looked like she had been shot with a varmint bullet, every organ was a mess and fragments everywhere. I found the bullet hole from the inside was right where I aimed, as I was sighted in for 200 yards. I should have taken a lot of pictures, as I've never seen anything like it and I've killed a lot of deer with a lot of different weapons. In this particular rifle I've mostly used Barnes and Partitions, and it's always been DRT. I decided to try the 120 grain BT due to it's glowing recommendations here, but the example of one is enough for me. I'd never use it again. I know read others who reported similar experiences were always shouted down that they used "old" bullets before they beefed them up. Well I purchased the bullets from Midway in 2017, so I'd say they were new. Honestly if I didn't see it and someone described this to me, I'd probably think it was BS, but I that's what happened. I would have liked to have loved that bullet as it consistently shot 1/2 groups, but I've found I can get 2930 with a 140 grain Partition max load of Big Game and 1 inch groups so I'm good.
Your thinking is flawed.
The entire lungs, heart were mush, the deer had no vital organs to keep pumping O2 to the brain. The deer just had great will to live, running on Adrenalin.
If you shoot a deer in the lungs/heart, they OFTEN will run up to 200 yards with the blood gushing, there is no getting around it. If you happened to hit the deer too far back, behind the diaphragm, then you ruptured some major arteries in the stomach/intestine area.
CCrifles, if you are lung shooting deer, some of them are going to run. Here in this state, the limit until last year was 12 deer per year, no tags or check in, honor system.
So, if you don't like running deer, shoot their running gear out from under them.
I guess I'm the odd man out, I got completed different results last year shooting it at 2975 fps out of a 7mm-08. Shot a average W/T Doe broadside through the lungs at 200 yards across an open field. There was no sign of a hit. I was afraid to shoot again, as the shot was so steady I felt the scope was off and I couldn't trust my sight. I watch her walking about 200 yard till she was out of sight. I immediately went to where she stood when I shot, and could find any blood or any other sign, now it was at dusk. I walked her path and found her not far from where she went out of sight dead. My buddy came over in just a few minutes. I was looking and honestly could not find an entrance or exit hole. The second I started to core her butt, blood just gushed out. My friend had some choice adjectives. Field dressing her it looked like she had been shot with a varmint bullet, every organ was a mess and fragments everywhere. I found the bullet hole from the inside was right where I aimed, as I was sighted in for 200 yards. I should have taken a lot of pictures, as I've never seen anything like it and I've killed a lot of deer with a lot of different weapons. In this particular rifle I've mostly used Barnes and Partitions, and it's always been DRT. I decided to try the 120 grain BT due to it's glowing recommendations here, but the example of one is enough for me. I'd never use it again. I know read others who reported similar experiences were always shouted down that they used "old" bullets before they beefed them up. Well I purchased the bullets from Midway in 2017, so I'd say they were new. Honestly if I didn't see it and someone described this to me, I'd probably think it was BS, but I that's what happened. I would have liked to have loved that bullet as it consistently shot 1/2 groups, but I've found I can get 2930 with a 140 grain Partition max load of Big Game and 1 inch groups so I'm good.
Having loaded and used the 7mm 120-grain Ballistic Tip since Nosler quit making the old 120-grain Flat Base, I find this hard to believe.
My daughters, grandchildren, friends and guest hunters have harvested truckloads of desert mule deer, Coues whitetails, Texas whitetails, pronghorns, a couple of elk and God only knows how many feral hogs using this bullet in a variety of rifles chambered for the 7mm-08. I posted many of those animals and, in most cases, got reports from those who field-dressed out the ones that I did not do. Never saw or heard of anything like your experience. I would say that most of those animals were taken well within 200 yards, as many of the hunters were newbies or people who otherwise had not shot much in the way of big game. My "standard" loads, using IMR 4350, Varget and now Big Game, have always clocked right around 3,100 fps from a variety of rifles over the years.
I guess that Nosler may let a bad one may get through once in a while, or end up with a different bullet in a new box of 50 or 100, but we sure haven't had to misfortune to run across one yet.
Example of one is almost meaningless. Something could have been fugged up in the reloading process, like a technition picking up a core after just having eaten greasy nachos.
Occasionally the alloy of a coil of core wire can vary from one end to the other. Same with the jacket material. Nosler is very consistent but it does happen. Barnes was plagued by changes in the alloy material early on and it wasn't until they switched suppliers that they eliminated this. These problems still follows them today with rumors of bad bullets or penciling through.
Please understand the Nosler BT is a DEER bullet. When hunting elk you need the toughest deepest penetrating bullet you can get. When elk hunting you don't always get a clear broad side shot at the rib cage like the magazines show. You may only have a shoulder or a hip to shoot at through openings in the trees & veneration. You very likely will have to penetrate tough deep muscle & heavy dense bone. Could only have seconds to line up & shoot as the elk could be moving. Don't pass up a for sure elk bullet like the TSX for the maybe, possibility of the Noslert BT working. Stick with the Barnes TSX. Also have you tried seating the TSX deeper in .010" increments? Many times this will shrink groups.with the TSX. Could be worth a try. I have observed a considerable amount of deer shot with the BT. Most of what I have seen is a very explosive bullet. Some times leaving grapefruit size entrance holes & a considerable amount of blood shot meat. If you contact Nosler they will tell you this 120gr BT bullet is not recommended for elk. With low elk & deer #'s here in Colorado only a tough deep penetrating bullet should be used. The odds of wounding & loosing an elk are to great to take chance with. At the very least use a Nosler Partition.
You shoot elk in the ass?
P
" You shoot elk in the ass?"
You don't.....Ever? Really?
Lefty C
" You shoot elk in the ass?"
You don't.....Ever? Really?
Lefty C
I hope you’re being funny, but no, I don’t.
P