I can't imagine standing there with a big game rifle in hand waiting on a charging bear with an already bloody muzzle to get close enough for me to spray it with the pepper spray I've never tested.
'Came upon a bear on a carcass and they began to yell'
Unless this is the usual piss poor use of the English language in the write-up by a news organization employee, then it seems the prudent thing would have been to quietly let the bear have at it and the hunters LEAVE the area. I thought I saw a report elsewhere that they were bow hunters.
I can't imagine standing there with a big game rifle in hand waiting on a charging bear with an already bloody muzzle to get close enough for me to spray it with the pepper spray I've never tested.
Bow season. Not rifle season. The bears have been terrible in that neck of the woods this year. Killed a bunch of cattle.
Who would go into the woods without an adequate firearm? I do believe a hard cast from even a .357 to head of that offending bear would have changed its aggression.
'Came upon a bear on a carcass and they began to yell'
Unless this is the usual piss poor use of the English language in the write-up by a news organization employee, then it seems the prudent thing would have been to quietly let the bear have at it and the hunters LEAVE the area. I thought I saw a report elsewhere that they were bow hunters.
Stupid hunters. Bear was busy on a carcass and they disturbed it. Scream at me during lunch and you'll get the same.
'Came upon a bear on a carcass and they began to yell'
Unless this is the usual piss poor use of the English language in the write-up by a news organization employee, then it seems the prudent thing would have been to quietly let the bear have at it and the hunters LEAVE the area. I thought I saw a report elsewhere that they were bow hunters.
Stupid hunters. Bear was busy on a carcass and they disturbed it. Scream at me during lunch and you'll get the same.
Pretty much what I was thinking...instead of yelling they should have been getting their spray ready and start a hasty, but quiet, retreat....
You want to see my ass vacate an A/O...show me a grizzly!
My bear spray is filled with six .44 mag 300 grain bullets. I think my type of bear spray is more reliable and I don't have to worry about the wind etc. Regardless, every time I see a bear, I get the fak out unless I have a bear tag in a pocket and a rifle ready.
Pretty much what I was thinking...instead of yelling they should have been getting their spray ready and start a hasty, but quiet, retreat..
My thoughts as well. But this incident along with a few others only reinforces my skepticism about Bear Spray. When it works, it works, but it doesn't always seem to work.
Who would go into the woods without an adequate firearm? I do believe a hard cast from even a .357 to head of that offending bear would have changed its aggression.
Simple really, they had the same chance as any deer hunter in Ohio. There is a law that says "no second weapon" when hunting deer. It is a stupid law, that defies common sense, and one I lobby to have revoked, but as it stands the only exception is a CCW, which not every hunter has. Knives are allowed, but not very effective if the need arose.
Who would go into the woods without an adequate firearm? I do believe a hard cast from even a .357 to head of that offending bear would have changed its aggression.
This is good in theory, but in reality, damn few people can shoot a charging grizzly in the head with a handgun-or a rifle for that matter. Even well-practiced police officers miss far more than they hit in close-range gun fights, when the excitement is high. Properly deployed bear spray has proven many times to be effective. It needs to be used correctly and also, it needs to be replaced after about three years to assure potency.
This wasn't the only coverage of the attack. According to other reports they did NOT shout at the bear before it charged, though they may have as it charged. One of the guys did have a handgun (legal in Montana when bowhunting) and drew it, but the bear knocked it out of his hand before he could shoot--which is when they tried to use pepper-spray.
Always love it when so many people who've never seen a grizzly talk about what the big handgun they'd be carrying in bear country--and how it would have solved the problem, pronto.
Also loved the comment from somebody who apparently didn't read this story, and assumed they were carrying rifles.
Who would go into the woods without an adequate firearm? I do believe a hard cast from even a .357 to head of that offending bear would have changed its aggression.
This is good in theory, but in reality, damn few people can shoot a charging grizzly in the head with a handgun-or a rifle for that matter. Even well-practiced police officers miss far more than they hit in close-range gun fights, when the excitement is high. Properly deployed bear spray has proven many times to be effective. It needs to be used correctly and also, it needs to be replaced after about three years to assure potency.
I was thinking about when the bear was on his buddy.
i have been on the wrong end of the dance with a bear. those that think you have all the time in the world to sort out what to do are blowing smoke. the world takes on a fluid appearance and you are caught in quick sand. in my case there was no physical contact but i had a hard time walking away due to the load in my pants! i am sure that it won't change anyone's opinion of bear spray or no bear spray but me and mine live with grizzlies 24/7/365 and we depend on it. shoot and wound a 500 pound pizzed off bear and you are not going to improve his mood for the better. lay down a fog with the RIGHT spray between you and your chances improve . a 44 mag bullet is .429 inches in diameter. a 3ftx10 ft fog of spray is 30 square feet of barrier that can save you. ymmv
I can't imagine standing there with a big game rifle in hand waiting on a charging bear with an already bloody muzzle to get close enough for me to spray it with the pepper spray I've never tested.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he only had a .223, and was waiting for the right shot.
waiting for the right shot? don't happen unless your grubby fist is down the throat with gun in hand it is impossible to imagine what this type of encounter is like. like getting sucker punched while whispering love notes into your girls ear. the brain can't process what is really going on if it is a close charge, and most are because it is proximity that creates the situation. the bear see's you as a threat. in my case the bear realized i was no threat by the high pitched scream coming from somewhere very close to my position. i had a black hawk 41 mag, and a bow and spray. i used the spray.
UDAP created by a survivor. get the big can . shoots 30 or so ft and billows . hope you are up wind. it stains we ran over a can in moose camp and had to move camp. had a nice orange tiger striping on our white jeep. i saved the holster and 5 years later the wife (who is allergic to any kind of pepper) found it in the bottom of my duffle bag. almost broke us up. it is strong. plus if the bear does come through and eat you it is easily identified by its pretty color.
G-bears been protected by endangered status for so long that they ain't worried about bipods or what their carrying for bear protection. Probably the original idea in the first place, to many bears to serve as deterent to excess nonresident hunting. those PETA type FWS people prolly dreamed it all up 40 years ago in the name of G-bear recovery. Well, well bet that deal cut short their hunting trip.
I can't imagine standing there with a big game rifle in hand waiting on a charging bear with an already bloody muzzle to get close enough for me to spray it with the pepper spray I've never tested.
HELENA, Mont. — A grizzly bear mauled a bow hunter in southwestern Montana, slashing a 16-inch (41-centimeter) cut in his head that required 90 stitches to close.
“I could hear bones crunching, just like you read about,” said Tom Sommer, as he recovered in a Montana hospital on Tuesday afternoon.
Sommer said he and a hunting partner were looking for an elk they had been calling Monday morning when his partner spotted a grizzly bear feeding on an elk carcass in the southern end of the Gravelly Range, just north of the Idaho border.
“The bear just flat-out charged us,” Sommer said. He said it closed the 30-foot (9-meter) distance in 3 or 4 seconds.
His hunting partner deployed his bear spray, which slowed the bear’s charge. Sommer said he grabbed his canister so quickly that he couldn’t release the safety and he couldn’t afford to look down as the bear closed in. He ran around a tree twice and dropped his bear spray in the process.
Sommer, who splits his time among Idaho, Missouri and Florida.
His hunting partner had been able to deploy the rest of his bear spray, ending the attack Sommer estimated lasted about 25 seconds.
“It could have been a lot worse,” he said.
Sommer found his bear spray canister. His hunting partner had some blood coagulation powder and they made a turban, stopping the bleeding after about 15 minutes. They walked a mile back to their spike camp and rode mules another 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) out to their base camp, followed by a 2-hour ride in a pickup truck to get to the hospital in Ennis.
“Through it all I was very conscious, very level-headed and low key about it,” Sommer said. “Besides some scars, it doesn’t appear that I will have any problems.”
“I’ve been a hunter my whole life,” said Sommer, 57. “I have no grievance against the bear. He was just doing what bears do. But I would have shot him just the same.”
Easy to Monday morning quarter back this one, which doesn't help him. I'm guessing he wishes he had either been more familiar with the bear spray or grabbed his handgun first. (I would have gone for the handgun myself but I wasn't there)
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
They were bowhunting, so didn't have rifles in their hands.
What is the law out there, can you have a handgun? Granted you need quite the cannon with a grizzly. Some states violate the 2nd Amendment when bow hunting. Sadly hunter put up with to much suppression of the 2nd Amendment. With the DNR you are guilty without committing a crime. Having a load gun, unless pointing it at something is not a crime.
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
Don't worry about it, stupid. You'll never venture this far regardless.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I was on a continent divide, they call it Grizzly, near Leadore Idaho, I was hyper hot call calling, the call sounds a lot like a dying rabbit but not quite.
I called in a cinnamon bear, had only a bow. No spray....in my brilliance I decided to see how close I could get...was about 22 yards. It never gave me shot but a frontal stare. It's nose did not look dished like I have seen grizzly photo graphs. But this bear was WAY big IMO. Finally I decided this bear most likely would rather eat me than vice versa so I tried to ease out.
When I finally turned my back to it, I heard a woof, woof, woof, I about [bleep] my self! But it bolted away from me did not charge.
Been collecting Ruger Super Blackhawk s ever since.
for those that want to really understand the dynamics of a bear charge with out getting in the ring with one i would suggest going to the wreaking yard in the worst town around where they have a couple Rottweiler's guarding. wait till dark and crawl over the fence make some noise and experience the rush. during said rush practice your fast draw and precision placement shooting. might be close to the actual thing. then again maybe not.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I was thinking of a guy who was rolling the bear over. If the bear is on top of you buddy you can certainly aim above ground level miss him.
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
Don't worry about it, stupid. You'll never venture this far regardless.
Dave
It only makes sense that you can shoot people but only spray bears. The world has way too many humans and not nearly enough bears. If you people would just read more you would understand. At least me and Deflave have it figured out.
GuyM: A few years ago I had hiked in to this mountain range (access roads were still gated) on a spring Bear Hunt and from my perch high on a ridge I watched a large Grizzly chase after a cow and calf Elk from just a couple hundred yards distant. The speed of that Grizzly viewed in person astounded (and scared!) me. The Grizzly chased the Elk into a stand of trees and I did not see the outcome of this chase. I had my new Tikka in 338 Federal along and the first thought through my mind once the initial shock passed was "is this enough gun"? Thankfully the fellows both survived. As the crow flies this incident occurred about 45 miles from my home! Use caution when afield and blood is around. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I was thinking of a guy who was rolling the bear over. If the bear is on top of you buddy you can certainly aim above ground level miss him.
All good in theory but you have no idea where that bullet is going to exit once inside the animal.
And their ain't no human capable of rolling a grizzly over. LMAO
GuyM: A few years ago I had hiked in to this mountain range (access roads were still gated) on a spring Bear Hunt and from my perch high on a ridge I watched a large Grizzly chase after a cow and calf Elk from just a couple hundred yards distant. The speed of that Grizzly viewed in person astounded (and scared!) me. The Grizzly chased the Elk into a stand of trees and I did not see the outcome of this chase. I had my new Tikka in 338 Federal along and the first thought through my mind once the initial shock passed was "is this enough gun"? Thankfully the fellows both survived. As the crow flies this incident occurred about 45 miles from my home! Use caution when afield and blood is around. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Yup. I've bumped into the big Alaskan brown bears several times while fly fishing the silver salmon run near Cordova, AK. Fortunately they're normally more interested in salmon, than in people.
Also have backpacked and hunted near Yellowstone and in other grizzly habitat in the west. Seeing them, or even their tracks, where I'm hunting always heightens my awareness. Gotta be careful around those things.
I understand about wondering about your rifle as well. About ten years ago, hunting mule deer in Wyoming, I wasn't finding much down low, in sage country, so I headed up into the mountains, closer to Yellowstone. Found mule deer, took one, then there was the 3 mile hike out with a pack full of boned-out venison on my back, and grizzly tracks on the trail. Sow and cub tracks! And I was carrying my .25-06 deer rifle, loaded with 115 gr Berger VLD bullets... Perfect for mule deer, but I was pretty sure that rifle & ammo were not a good choice for grizzly.
Took a nice arctic grizzly earlier this year, in Alaska. Quite a hunt.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I was thinking of a guy who was rolling the bear over. If the bear is on top of you buddy you can certainly aim above ground level miss him.
All good in theory but you have no idea where that bullet is going to exit once inside the animal.
And their ain't no human capable of rolling a grizzly over. LMAO
My statement was meant to show the foolishness of a guy rolling around with a grizzly. That's why I said I would sure like to meet the man who can roll around with a grizzly mauling him.
A friend of mine had a grizzly come to him while he was coyote hunting Montana. He heard it before he saw it so he had his rifle ready. A .22-250. When the bear was about five feet away he fired. A very large white streak appeared right above one of its eyes. The bear fell. Got up. Shook its head and mauled a nearby small tree before it left. As long as the bear's attention was not directed toward him he was fine with it.
A friend of mine had a grizzly come to him while he was coyote hunting Montana. He heard it before he saw it so he had his rifle ready. A .22-250. When the bear was about five feet away he fired. A very large white streak appeared right above one of its eyes. The bear fell. Got up. Shook its head and mauled a nearby small tree before it left. As long as the bear's attention was not directed toward him he was fine with it.
My statement was meant to show the foolishness of a guy rolling around with a grizzly. That's why I said I would sure like to meet the man who can roll around with a grizzly mauling him.
Yeah... I don't think they do it on purpose, Mr. Ringman. It sorta just happens.
My statement was meant to show the foolishness of a guy rolling around with a grizzly. That's why I said I would sure like to meet the man who can roll around with a grizzly mauling him.
Yeah... I don't think they do it on purpose, Mr. Ringman. It sorta just happens.
Did you hit yourself with a hammer this morning?
Dave
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Ringman
My statement was meant to show the foolishness of a guy rolling around with a grizzly. That's why I said I would sure like to meet the man who can roll around with a grizzly mauling him.
Yeah... I don't think they do it on purpose, Mr. Ringman. It sorta just happens.
My statement was meant to show the foolishness of a guy rolling around with a grizzly. That's why I said I would sure like to meet the man who can roll around with a grizzly mauling him.
Yeah... I don't think they do it on purpose, Mr. Ringman. It sorta just happens.
Deflave already said it all, but I'll just note that every time I think you (or Savage 99, or Zerk) can't post something dumber, you all manage to exceed yourselves.
I have had only one encounter with a grizzly and it was soon after I shot it. Turbine like 360's then out of view. My azz was as puckered as can be as we moved towards where we lost sight of him. Thankfully he was dead but I will never forget that feeling. Years later I was up close and personal hunting brown bear and I was not puckered at all.
Deflave already said it all, but I'll just note that every time I think you (or Savage 99, or Zerk) can't post something dumber, you all manage to exceed yourselves.
Deflave already said it all, but I'll just note that every time I think you (or Savage 99, or Zerk) can't post something dumber, you all manage to exceed yourselves.
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
Don't worry about it, stupid. You'll never venture this far regardless.
Dave
It only makes sense that you can shoot people but only spray bears. The world has way too many humans and not nearly enough bears. If you people would just read more you would understand. At least me and Deflave have it figured out.
I value my life more than a bear. Your call. I also carry a gun most places. I am not ok with 1 in 10k chance of needing it. Some people are ok with 1 in 100k chance their daughter is raper or wife killed. We all make choices, and roll the dice.
i stumbled on to the best bear protection by accident. took my BIL hunting and stuffed all my candy wrappers, sandwich wrappers etc into his pack while he was watering a bush. we split up and he left his pack at the branch of the trail. when we got back the pack was trashed . so from then on i always put a BLT sandwich in his pack before we go out. figure it gives me about 100% better chance because i can still out run (hobble?) him!
This wasn't the only coverage of the attack. According to other reports they did NOT shout at the bear before it charged, though they may have as it charged. One of the guys did have a handgun (legal in Montana when bowhunting) and drew it, but the bear knocked it out of his hand before he could shoot--which is when they tried to use pepper-spray.
Always love it when so many people who've never seen a grizzly talk about what the big handgun they'd be carrying in bear country--and how it would have solved the problem, pronto.
Also loved the comment from somebody who apparently didn't read this story, and assumed they were carrying rifles.
Your reading looks to be as bad as your writing Barness. The link provided says nothing about bowhunting.
I can't imagine standing there with a big game rifle in hand waiting on a charging bear with an already bloody muzzle to get close enough for me to spray it with the pepper spray I've never tested.
I can't imagine bowhunting with a big game rifle.
Not without a spotlight anyway.
Dave
I can't imagine trying to shoot a city elk with a 22-250 shell out of my 7-08 , but schitt happens.
I guess if I lived in PA I'd be pissed off every morning as well.
Chin up.
Clark
Geeze, take it easy on us PA guys. We can't all be held accountable for one shining example of a turd that runs his mouth when he has no clue what he's talking about.
This wasn't the only coverage of the attack. According to other reports they did NOT shout at the bear before it charged, though they may have as it charged. One of the guys did have a handgun (legal in Montana when bowhunting) and drew it, but the bear knocked it out of his hand before he could shoot--which is when they tried to use pepper-spray.
Always love it when so many people who've never seen a grizzly talk about what the big handgun they'd be carrying in bear country--and how it would have solved the problem, pronto.
Also loved the comment from somebody who apparently didn't read this story, and assumed they were carrying rifles.
Your reading looks to be as bad as your writing Barness. The link provided says nothing about bowhunting.
You're a [bleep] retard. Bow season is the only season open right now. You ought to check facts before you start posting stupid scheit, otherwise you just look dumb.
Yeah, I screwed up by not reading this article thoroughly.
My only excuse is that I'd already read half-a-dozen other accounts of the attack, because it was big news here in Montana, and all the others mentioned they were bowhunting. So I didn't read this one thoroughly, and assumed it mentioned bowhunting because that would seem to be essential information, though apparently not to the reporter who wrote it. I apologize.
Well, glad that more informative articles were posted than the original one, which was certainly poor by comparison. A common flaw in so-called journalism these days.
Some would say that I have enjoyed a pretty sporty life, but I can only say that I fear no man, damned few women but all Griz, and pissy blackies.
Some years back my buddy and I were up the creek, literally, moose hunting. in Alaska. Heard, then smelled one of the dish faced big boys we had seen from his Super Cub the day before.
Even though we both were humping .338's with 250 NP's, we both looked at each other's knees- we both thought it would be a lot easier to hit the other's knee than a Big Brownie mugging us from 10 feet on the other side of the Alder wall. Then reverted to training and wished we had some belt fed weapons.
Never saw that bear, and he let us pass, but anyone who thinks that they have a chance in hand to hand, or that they could get off a decent shot is fooling themselves.
B.S. Dave, you continue to flat out make me laugh.
Yeah, I screwed up by not reading this article thoroughly.
My only excuse is that I'd already read half-a-dozen other accounts of the attack, because it was big news here in Montana, and all the others mentioned they were bowhunting. So I didn't read this one thoroughly, and assumed it mentioned bowhunting because that would seem to be essential information, though apparently not to the reporter who wrote it. I apologize.
Barsness has to be one of the nicest, and most classier sumbitches to ever walk the earth.
I can totally see what John aka Mule Deer was trying to communicate.
I met a very nice elderly Canadian on the Mississippi River near Monticello's Mn. His RV was parked on a river site so I asked if I could catfish at night on his " spot".
He began talking about hunting the wildness of Canada. There is an inexpensive flavored whisky named after it but right now it eludes me. Anyways he told me dead bears kill more humans than live ones. A scoped rifle with your favorite ruminant load will perhaps not be what will be needed to stop a Grizzly from eating you.
On a side note my buddy bought a smith and Wesson ultra light 45 long colt reveolver. The kind Deflave claims. You need an illegal immigrant to sight in for you. I think I would rather have the bear eat me than shoot that thing. The cloud of noxious pepper spray sounds like a way safer deterrent.
I can totally see what John aka Mule Deer was trying to communicate.
I met a very nice elderly Canadian on the Mississippi River near Monticello's Mn. His RV was parked on a river site so I asked if I could catfish at night on his " spot".
He began talking about hunting the wildness of Canada. There is an inexpensive flavored whisky named after it but right now it eludes me. Anyways he told me dead bears kill more humans than live ones. A scoped rifle with your favorite ruminant load will perhaps not be what will be needed to stop a Grizzly from eating you.
On a side note my buddy bought a smith and Wesson ultra light 45 long colt reveolver. The kind Deflave claims. You need an illegal immigrant to sight in for you. I think I would rather have the bear eat me than shoot that thing. The cloud of noxious pepper spray sounds like a way safer deterrent.
And I will agree with your comments re: Barsness- and raise you one- his bride.
Ended up doing several back to back deployments in Shkin and Konar. Eileen was very gracious/supportive in sending boxes of hunting porn for the team which was very appreciated. When home on leave HouseHold-6 and I linked up for coffee with both of them and can report that they were very gracious. Learned much about a .300 H&H I had just picked up.
It was in the Revel Stokes he hunted. In Canada they can't have hand guns, he said that a hunter from his group did not return so they went on a search . Found the guy dead and a dead bear right next to the Guys rifle.
And I will agree with your comments re: Barsness- and raise you one- his bride.
Ended up doing several back to back deployments in Shkin and Konar. Eileen was very gracious/supportive in sending boxes of hunting porn for the team which was very appreciated. When home on leave HouseHold-6 and I linked up for coffee with both of them and can report that they were very gracious. Learned much about a .300 H&H I had just picked up.
Great Americans.
Shrapnel had me drop some stuff at their house on a gouging run one day and I concur. They are very nice people.
Also, Barsness will loan you a shovel when you have to take a schit.
And he will politely not be around when you want to steal some of his expensive IPA's.
Barsness has to be one of the nicest, and most classier sumbitches to ever walk the earth
Have to admit I lol'ed on that one, never heard it put quite that way before.
Gerry; Top of the morning to you, I hope this finds you well up there in the wet section of the province.
I'm with you on the laugh - indeed John and Eileen have always treated me kindly and Travis often makes me laugh with his unique perspective on life.
On the bear subject, do you recall the chap from Cranbrook area who was shot by his son-in-law a few seasons back? As I recall the bear was on top of this fellow, the son in law shot the bear with a .338 and the bullet exited the bear and did extensive damage to the man's leg. Might even have had to be amputated, but the man was extremely grateful to be alive.
I've been fortunate to correspond with one of the two gentlemen who got jumped in the tent near Radium while sheep hunting too - maybe 10 years ago now?
Anyway Gerry as you very well know, the bears don't read the script beforehand and things get mighty unpredictable because of that.
Let's hope they behave for most of us this fall as we head into the mountains in the pursuit of protein. If you can send some rain down here too Gerry, we'd surely appreciate it. All the best to you folks.
On the bear subject, do you recall the chap from Cranbrook area who was shot by his son-in-law a few seasons back? As I recall the bear was on top of this fellow, the son in law shot the bear with a .338 and the bullet exited the bear and did extensive damage to the man's leg. Might even have had to be amputated, but the man was extremely grateful to be alive.
Dwayne
I wonder why he didn't just roll the bear onto it's back?
I'm afraid that if my wife or children were armed, and found me engaged with a bear in mortal combat, they'd see it as an opportunity to be rid of me. Not to save me.
Funny enough we were talking to our girls about wills, last wishes, etc and I stated that I wished it known I wanted a "Do Not Resuscitate/DNR" order for me.
My good wife turns to my eldest and says, "Now that doesn't mean if you're up the mountain hunting with Dad and he cuts his hand that you're supposed to put him down or anything like that"....
Good to clarify these points up front I'm thinking, no Travis?
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
I don't believe you even need a CWP to carry concealed in Montana, outside of a few select liberal cesspools like Missoula and some of the other bigger cities. I could be wrong though.
A handgun is the last thing I would want to use on a charging griz, though I do almost always carry one. Your heart rate has to be going through the roof in that situation. Good luck getting any kind of an aimed shot off. I know Phil Schumaker did it a while back, but doubt the average joe bowhunter could.
As far as rolling around with a griz...who knows??? I do know from personal experience that you can do some seemingly impossible physical things when you're scared. I say that as I sit here, waiting for a bush plane to drop me off in the griz infested Talkaneetas for a week🤔.
I would gladly send some rain to you guys down there we are 12 C and raining lightly right now.
I do remember both incidents and there have been a lot more unfortunately. Now that the Communists have taken control in Victoria we can expect an increase in bear encounters as they gradually lose their fear of us. I hope Montana gets a grizzly season soon and we get a government again which is at least hunting friendly.
I guess if I lived in PA I'd be pissed off every morning as well.
Chin up.
Clark
Geeze, take it easy on us PA guys. We can't all be held accountable for one shining example of a turd that runs his mouth when he has no clue what he's talking about.
F U Borden... who do you think you are? That's twice you run your suck. I'd bitch slap your boyfriend just to get to you!
Yeah, I screwed up by not reading this article thoroughly.
My only excuse is that I'd already read half-a-dozen other accounts of the attack, because it was big news here in Montana, and all the others mentioned they were bowhunting. So I didn't read this one thoroughly, and assumed it mentioned bowhunting because that would seem to be essential information, though apparently not to the reporter who wrote it. I apologize.
Apology accepted John, and I apologize for the snarky come back attempting to defend myself.
45-8-317. Exceptions. (1) Section 45-8-316 does not apply to:
(a) any peace officer of the state of Montana or of another state who has the power to make arrests;
(b) any officer of the United States government authorized to carry a concealed weapon;
(c) a person in actual service as a member of the national guard;
(d) a person summoned to the aid of any of the persons named in subsections (1)(a) through (1)(c);
(e) a civil officer or the officer's deputy engaged in the discharge of official business;
(f) a probation and parole officer authorized to carry a firearm under 46-23-1002;
(g) a person issued a permit under 45-8-321 or a person with a permit recognized under 45-8-329;
(h) an agent of the department of justice or a criminal investigator in a county attorney's office;
(i) a person who is outside the official boundaries of a city or town or the confines of a logging, lumbering, mining, or railroad camp or who is lawfully engaged in hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, backpacking, farming, ranching, or other outdoor activity in which weapons are often carried for recreation or protection;
(j) the carrying of arms on one's own premises or at one's home or place of business; or
(k) the carrying of a concealed weapon in the state capitol by a legislative security officer who has been issued a permit under 45-8-321 or with a permit recognized under 45-8-329.
(2) With regard to a person issued a permit under 45-8-321, the provisions of 45-8-328 do not apply to this section.
Some would say that I have enjoyed a pretty sporty life, but I can only say that I fear no man, damned few women but all Griz, and pissy blackies.
Some years back my buddy and I were up the creek, literally, moose hunting. in Alaska. Heard, then smelled one of the dish faced big boys we had seen from his Super Cub the day before.
Even though we both were humping .338's with 250 NP's, we both looked at each other's knees- we both thought it would be a lot easier to hit the other's knee than a Big Brownie mugging us from 10 feet on the other side of the Alder wall. Then reverted to training and wished we had some belt fed weapons.
Never saw that bear, and he let us pass, but anyone who thinks that they have a chance in hand to hand, or that they could get off a decent shot is fooling themselves.
B.S. Dave, you continue to flat out make me laugh.
Good for you; now, do pushups!
I have been close enough to hear and smell a Kodiak Brown and never saw him. It's damn scary.
Some would say that I have enjoyed a pretty sporty life, but I can only say that I fear no man, damned few women but all Griz, and pissy blackies.
Some years back my buddy and I were up the creek, literally, moose hunting. in Alaska. Heard, then smelled one of the dish faced big boys we had seen from his Super Cub the day before.
Even though we both were humping .338's with 250 NP's, we both looked at each other's knees- we both thought it would be a lot easier to hit the other's knee than a Big Brownie mugging us from 10 feet on the other side of the Alder wall. Then reverted to training and wished we had some belt fed weapons.
Never saw that bear, and he let us pass, but anyone who thinks that they have a chance in hand to hand, or that they could get off a decent shot is fooling themselves.
B.S. Dave, you continue to flat out make me laugh.
Good for you; now, do pushups!
I have been close enough to hear and smell a Kodiak Brown and never saw him. It's damn scary.
Holy [bleep]!
i watched a show where these bow hunters were crawling through the red brush on a Griz track. It opened up to a creek and the bear was there and the dude shot it at like 18 yds.
The things was, they had NO idea where that bear was in that thick sh*t. It would be a rush but no thanks.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I've sewn 14 canisters of bear spray onto my Stormy Kromer and have another six strung together like a pearl choker. I won't go into bear country without either of them.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I've sewn 14 canisters of bear spray onto my Stormy Kromer and have another six strung together like a pearl choker. I won't go into bear country without either of them.
He'll think he's eating a Mexican, what with all that spiciness....
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
I guess if I lived in PA I'd be pissed off every morning as well.
Chin up.
Clark
Geeze, take it easy on us PA guys. We can't all be held accountable for one shining example of a turd that runs his mouth when he has no clue what he's talking about.
F U Borden... who do you think you are? That's twice you run your suck. I'd bitch slap your boyfriend just to get to you!
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
A friend of mine had a grizzly come to him while he was coyote hunting Montana. He heard it before he saw it so he had his rifle ready. A .22-250. When the bear was about five feet away he fired. A very large white streak appeared right above one of its eyes. The bear fell. Got up. Shook its head and mauled a nearby small tree before it left. As long as the bear's attention was not directed toward him he was fine with it.
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
Don't worry about it, stupid. You'll never venture this far regardless.
Dave
It only makes sense that you can shoot people but only spray bears. The world has way too many humans and not nearly enough bears. If you people would just read more you would understand. At least me and Deflave have it figured out.
45-8-317. Exceptions. (1) Section 45-8-316 does not apply to:
(a) any peace officer of the state of Montana or of another state who has the power to make arrests;
(b) any officer of the United States government authorized to carry a concealed weapon;
(c) a person in actual service as a member of the national guard;
(d) a person summoned to the aid of any of the persons named in subsections (1)(a) through (1)(c);
(e) a civil officer or the officer's deputy engaged in the discharge of official business;
(f) a probation and parole officer authorized to carry a firearm under 46-23-1002;
(g) a person issued a permit under 45-8-321 or a person with a permit recognized under 45-8-329;
(h) an agent of the department of justice or a criminal investigator in a county attorney's office;
(i) a person who is outside the official boundaries of a city or town or the confines of a logging, lumbering, mining, or railroad camp or who is lawfully engaged in hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, backpacking, farming, ranching, or other outdoor activity in which weapons are often carried for recreation or protection;
(j) the carrying of arms on one's own premises or at one's home or place of business; or
(k) the carrying of a concealed weapon in the state capitol by a legislative security officer who has been issued a permit under 45-8-321 or with a permit recognized under 45-8-329.
(2) With regard to a person issued a permit under 45-8-321, the provisions of 45-8-328 do not apply to this section.
I personally know a couple of people who've been mauled by grizzlies, and yes, they described rolling around with the bear on top of them, because they were trying to protect their their head and back of their neck, which is what grizzlies often go for when mauling people--just as the bear did in this mauling.
One common advice for people being mauled by grizzlies is to play dead, but that's hard to do when they're biting your skull, or dragging you around by a leg.
I've sewn 14 canisters of bear spray onto my Stormy Kromer and have another six strung together like a pearl choker. I won't go into bear country without either of them.
Hell, I do not even use stick and string for FISH...
Frags are my Huckleberry.
So my Alaska buddy is not exactly a tender flower of nature who has also enjoyed a robust life ( as in Silver Star ) but when doing Super Cub reconning and we see Mr. Bear we move out smartly to another AO.
Even if hunting them, we really wish we had 155's in direct support...
Hell, I do not even use stick and string for FISH...
Frags are my Huckleberry.
So my Alaska buddy is not exactly a tender flower of nature who has also enjoyed a robust life ( as in Silver Star ) but when doing Super Cub reconning and we see Mr. Bear we move out smartly to another AO.
Even if hunting them, we really wish we had 155's in direct support...
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
Where do you get information like this?
Two main sources, a fellow bow hunter who actually does it, and the ODNR . Where do you get yours? Cracker jacks?
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
Where do you get information like this?
Two main sources, a fellow bow hunter who actually does it, and the ODNR . Where do you get yours? Cracker jacks?
TFF!!
Do you guys, including your buddy the bowhunter, do a lot of grizzly hunting in Ohio?
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
Where do you get information like this?
Two main sources, a fellow bow hunter who actually does it, and the ODNR . Where do you get yours? Cracker jacks?
TFF!!
Do you guys, including your buddy the bowhunter, do a lot of grizzly hunting in Ohio?
No, I would not attempt it, nor could I afford the out of state hunts he makes. (It helps when daddy owns a major car dealership) he hunts all over the world. I keep it to a few local states, though I have invites for a few places I can't afford to go. Only bear encounter I've ever had, I went up a tree as quickly and as quietly as I could, and stayed there until I was sure it had no interest in me and had moved on. I was bow hunting, and knew I couldn't out run it. (That was 25-30years ago.) Certainly not something I would attempt with a bow.
Not a Griz, but had that Oh Shlt moment when I was fencing. Following along a fence that dropped down across a slough. Got to the bottom and it was overgrown with brush. Little tunnel opening in the brush running alongside the fence. I get down on all fours and proceed to crawl through this tunnel. In the middle, ground was real soft, a bit wet, I look down and see as fresh of a cat track as I've ever seen. Simultaneously I about shlt my pants, hair stands on end, I look left, right, up, down, forward, back a few times. I have nothing but a pair of pliers on my hand. My mind goes in hyperdrive and I think wtf am I doing here? FMR, I scrambled my a$$ out of there pronto.
Never saw it. But it damn sure woke me the hell up at that moment.
Actually, it wouldn't totally surprise me to see somebody with cans of bear repellent on their hat.
When the stuff first started to really show up in Montana, especially in stores around Glacier and Yellowstone Parks, some people apparently believed it was used like bug repellent: You sprayed it anywhere you didn't want bears landing, like your clothes or your kids. Some even sprayed it on their backpacking tents, and pretty soon it became evident that bears (some bears anyway) liked the taste, because they came into camp and started licking the repellent-sprayed tents!
Current deer regs for Ohio require 3/4" min size, though I still have some of the older 1&1/2" broadheads with bleeders. I hated them, as I had issues with planing. But they were required. Current for Michigan is 7/8", and Indiana has no size requirements that I know of, but thier requirements are less than ours. I go to ODNR legal dept, each year before season and spend an hour or two discussing rules and rule changes, the reasons behind the rules, and new products that skirt the rules. Bear tips are allowed smaller for max penetration from less drag through hide, fat, and muscle.
Only bear encounter I've ever had, I went up a tree as quickly and as quietly as I could, and stayed there until I was sure it had no interest in me and had moved on. I was bow hunting, and knew I couldn't out run it.
You do know that black bears can climb trees, don't you?
And grizzlies are better at it than they are given credit for...
One time, after a mile hump out of my favorite steelhead creek, I stopped to piss. As I was standing there, fishing rod in one hand/dick in the other, I noticed the tree about 5 feet from me 'shaking'.
I looked up towards the top of the tree and said to myself 'Humm, 2 bear cubs'. Took another 1/2 second for me to say myself 'Stop pissing, start moving'
Only bear encounter I've ever had, I went up a tree as quickly and as quietly as I could, and stayed there until I was sure it had no interest in me and had moved on. I was bow hunting, and knew I couldn't out run it.
You do know that black bears can climb trees, don't you?
And grizzlies are better at it than they are given credit for...
ingwe; Good afternoon to you sir, I hope the weekend's been a good one for you.
While we did have a sniff of rain yesterday the bush is still closed for us for the most part, so even though it's opening day for mulies, whitetails and elk, I'm doing chores around the place and hoping for it to cool down and rain some more.
Anyway, yes for sure it must be remembered that both species can climb trees - black bears - especially the teenage ones are incredibly fast climbers. Canuck grizzlies too have been known to climb trees and deaths have resulted after the fact.
While I know it's likely in bad taste, I can't help myself from posting this. I'm sure it's Canuck too since we're not allowed to carry sidearms, so we have to brawl the bears "mano e clawo"....
All the best to you folks this fall ingwe and good luck on your hunts.
Actually, it wouldn't totally surprise me to see somebody with cans of bear repellent on their hat.
When the stuff first started to really show up in Montana, especially in stores around Glacier and Yellowstone Parks, some people apparently believed it was used like bug repellent: You sprayed it anywhere you didn't want bears landing, like your clothes or your kids. Some even sprayed it on their backpacking tents, and pretty soon it became evident that bears (some bears anyway) liked the taste, because they came into camp and started licking the repellent-sprayed tents!
Not for nothing, but the licking has got to be better than the biting. I'm reminded of Zerk, his Pomeranian, and a jar of crunchy Peter Pan.
For the record, my shït's patent pending, so don't even think about it. You can't just substitute a stocking watch cap and be in the clear, neither. The chinamen already tried that and we sued the Yen out of'em. My name is synonymous with safety in Giant Panda country.
Only bear encounter I've ever had, I went up a tree as quickly and as quietly as I could, and stayed there until I was sure it had no interest in me and had moved on. I was bow hunting, and knew I couldn't out run it.
You do know that black bears can climb trees, don't you?
And grizzlies are better at it than they are given credit for...
I know more about them now, than I knew then. It was a kinda primal thing, monkey returns to the trees. I just got as far out of sight as I could get.
The only "Bear" broadheads I ever heard of in my life were Fred Bear razorheads. And they worked on all game as he so ably proved. Small diameter broadheads for bear is pure BS. Arrows penetrate like crazy and don't need the blades whittled away to drive deep. What they do need is a good cutting diameter to kill. You'll learn this the first time you shoot something with a field point.
One time, after a mile hump out of my favorite steelhead creek, I stopped to piss. As I was standing there, fishing rod in one hand/dick in the other, I noticed the tree about 5 feet from me 'shaking'.
I looked up towards the top of the tree and said to myself 'Humm, 2 bear cubs'. Took another 1/2 second for me to say myself 'Stop pissing, start moving'
Had one of those moments too Scott. I was actually looking for bear and caught a glimpse of brown in a bush that could be nothing else. Very carefully I snuck up and parted the branches of the bush with my .44 mag handgun, only to see a really cute Winnie the Pooh type cub sitting two feet away, looking cute. I thought that was really neat till it dawned on me he had a Mom...someplace close...
The only "Bear" broadheads I ever heard of in my life were Fred Bear razorheads. And they worked on all game as he so ably proved. Small diameter broadheads for bear is pure BS. Arrows penetrate like crazy and don't need the blades whittled away to drive deep. What they do need is a good cutting diameter to kill. You'll learn this the first time you shoot something with a field point.
Never went looking for bear, but I've been hunting deer since I was a pre-teen. I started out with cedar shaft Bear brand glue on tips, with bleeders. I know them well. But as my poundage went up, they get harder to tune for true flight. As I said, I had an issue with planing, and stopped using them. Ohio raise the minimum poundage and the same arrows would no longer group well with the higher poundage. The tips used by my bear hunter, are tiny, just a bit larger than the shaft. As Fred Bear said himself, of his crosscut bleeder blades, sometimes the wound seals around the shaft, and the bleeders were to prevent that. He also said of his design, that nothing penetrated better than a 2 blades head design. (Translation, less drag) Field points are fine for squirrels and rabbits, where I'm not shooting razorheads into dirt, but clearly not for large game. I've been bow hunting for more than 40 years. Whether or not you've heard of smaller tips for the purpose, I couldn't care less, but he has a wide variety of mounted heads covering three walls of his garage. They must work. (I'll check my laptop, and see if I still have a few pics or not).
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
No, I'm not. I use them now, but i still have a few Bear broadheades, at least the screw in version. Bodkins are for breaching armor. High impact at surface. It was actually more effective to wound than to kill. Dead was dead, but wounded tied up at least 1-2 other fighters to get the wounded man to cover, and care.
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
No, I'm not. I use them now, but i still have a few Bear broadheades, at least the screw in version. Bodkins are for breaching armor. High impact at surface. It was actually more effective to wound than to kill. Dead was dead, but wounded tied up at least 1-2 other fighters to get the wounded man to cover, and care.
Bodkins weren't intended to wound by design. They were the only head that could drive through plate armor. Killing was always the goal. Now wounded horses on the other hand were a very effective battlefield weapon. Medieval warriors didn't stop fighting to carry wounded to safety too often
You mean pandas don't like spicy Szechuan? Not surprising, since their standard diet is bland bamboo.
Let me know when your patent's approved, and I'll help publicize your anti-bear hat....
Thanks for the generous offer John. I want to see how Flave's field tests go before offering this domestically. So far he's credited the hat with a couple free hot cocoas, a coloring book and some crayons, but that was just wearing it around town. He hasn't gotten too much attention from bears. I'm not sure why. We're thinking about adding a fanny pack filled with a couple pounds of fried bacon to the mix. Let us know if you have any ideas, but please keep in mind that I need to keep this as scientific as possible.
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
No, I'm not. I use them now, but i still have a few Bear broadheades, at least the screw in version. Bodkins are for breaching armor. High impact at surface. It was actually more effective to wound than to kill. Dead was dead, but wounded tied up at least 1-2 other fighters to get the wounded man to cover, and care.
Bodkins weren't intended to wound by design. They were the only head that could drive through plate armor. Killing was always the goal. Now wounded horses on the other hand were a very effective battlefield weapon. Medieval warriors didn't stop fighting to carry wounded to safety too often
I'm sorts familiar with the weapons and armor of the time period. Both in function and construction. I build it. And no, the bodkin points were not trhe only ones, just the most effective. Quite a few weapons were designed for that specialized job.
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
No, I'm not. I use them now, but i still have a few Bear broadheades, at least the screw in version. Bodkins are for breaching armor. High impact at surface. It was actually more effective to wound than to kill. Dead was dead, but wounded tied up at least 1-2 other fighters to get the wounded man to cover, and care.
Bodkins weren't intended to wound by design. They were the only head that could drive through plate armor. Killing was always the goal. Now wounded horses on the other hand were a very effective battlefield weapon. Medieval warriors didn't stop fighting to carry wounded to safety too often
I'm sorts familiar with the weapons and armor of the time period. Both in function and construction. I build it. And no, the bodkin points were not trhe only ones, just the most effective. Quite a few weapons were designed for that specialized job.
You and I could have some good discussions but there is not a forum on here they would fit into.
Broadheads require cutting diameter to be effective. Otherwise we'd use Bodkin points which can penetrate most anything. It sounds like you are talking about expandable broadheads.
No, I'm not. I use them now, but i still have a few Bear broadheades, at least the screw in version. Bodkins are for breaching armor. High impact at surface. It was actually more effective to wound than to kill. Dead was dead, but wounded tied up at least 1-2 other fighters to get the wounded man to cover, and care.
Bodkins weren't intended to wound by design. They were the only head that could drive through plate armor. Killing was always the goal. Now wounded horses on the other hand were a very effective battlefield weapon. Medieval warriors didn't stop fighting to carry wounded to safety too often
I'm sorts familiar with the weapons and armor of the time period. Both in function and construction. I build it. And no, the bodkin points were not trhe only ones, just the most effective. Quite a few weapons were designed for that specialized job.
You and I could have some good discussions but there is not a forum on here they would fit into.
There is always PM's if you feel the urge that strongly. My avatar should have given you a clue OP, sorry for the thread hijack.
I went to a presentation by an archer that was on a quest to harvest all species of bears with a recurve.
He was a retired postal employee. He had no children. He said he would often get asked by his wife's friends as to how he could afford all of these hunts. He would tell them he spent his Kids college fund...........all six of them.
Anyways he didn't really use a different broad head. But different arrow. He would put I believe a solid fiberglass shaft in side of an aluminum arrow. Now .......wait it gets better.
He felt the more mass in the arrow would allow more Kinetic Energy to be absorbed by the arrow from the bow getting released. This enhanced Mass and KE boost, would boost the penetration of the arrow.
You are allowed to carry a side arm in Montana while Archery Hunting. You just are not allowed to dispatch an animal with it. But may use it ANYTIME for self defense.If you have a CWP it can be out if sight.
So can shoot a person with it, but must pepper spray on bears?
Just for zerk and the others who misinterpreted slider, when he said you're not allowed to dispatch an animal with a pistol, he meant an animal that you have a tag for and are hunting with a bow.
Not a grizzly that's charging or gnawing on you. That would be the "self-defense" he was talking about.
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
Laffin! Eastern tenderfoots are funny. Absolutely nothing in this post is accurate except MAYBE the first line.
I know a guy who hunted bear with a bow, and I told him to his face , he was nuts. But I learned a couple off facts. The arrows used for deer and the arrows used for bear must have different tips. Deer razorheads have a minimum cutting width of @1&1/2" and are intended for max blood letting. Not so with bear, a s they have a razorheads just larger than the shaft of the arrow. About the size of the tip of your little finger. They are designed for max penetration, so they can reach something vital. Deer tipped arrows would more than likely not penetrate enough to kill anytime soon. Then you have a wounded and verdy pissed bear on hand. Not good, not good at all. He also told me, on any guided hunt, he is back-stopped by the guide with a rifle.
Laffin! Eastern tenderfoots are funny. Absolutely nothing in this post is accurate except MAYBE the first line.
I am no grizzly expert but the highly suggested, first order defense -- a spray can -- for a quarter horse-fast, quarter-ton, very annoyed omnivore hurtling at a slow, ungainly and small biped has to have its nexus with a conference room of liberal-thinking, bobble-headed wildlife officials.
It might best and most safely be applied generously around the beast's nose and head soon after a cylinder full of hard casts was first -- these hard casts are less affected by the breeze in your face and won't be mistaken for self-applied Cajun, pepper rub.
Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the better. Some fella wearing a spittoon on his head in a dirty bathroom. Never saw it coming. Well played Kellory. Well played.
Right. Actually, a Nat Geo documentary found, after interviewing the bear, that while "biting the legs it was the odor from those socks that finally turned me off. The bear spray, for a moment, almost convinced me to stay and ask for some Picante too, but the socks overruled and I almost hurled, thinking Pepto Bismo, or, in my case some cannabis oil. It seemed easier to just leave at this point."
Here is a Bear Safety video featuring the guy from Bozeman, Todd Orr that was attacked last year. Go to minute 2:00 and understand how little time one has to react to a bear attack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35cJJ2jIg2I
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