Any of you folks use the Bog Pod, Trigger stick, Stoney Point style tripod shooting sticks? What say you?

I have a few different bipod/tripods. My favorite is the red legged Bog Pod. It is slightly heavier, but more stable.

Bog Pod

I bought the primos trigger stick, and like it very well.


maddog

Polecat Bi-pod, works standing, kneeling, or flat on Your hiney.

Gunner

p.s. the have absorbed hundred's of round's of 577, 500 Nitro Express, and 505 Gibbs, from the back of my left hand, so they are very durable.

I have the red legged bog pod and find it better than the stoney point and a set of fixed leg bipods I have.

Von Gruff.

Gary O, never used sticks but once in my life and it cost me a 60+ inch Kudu! So If I can't hit that animal off hand at 10 to 150 yards, I will use the sitting position or a tree, rock but not shooting sticks and especially for dangerous game animals.
My father taught me how to shoot and the US ARMY took me 3 levels higher in marksmanship. I don't use sticks period! Only a Harris Bipod for varmints way out youndar way.

I have a Bog pod tripod, works well.
In Africa, I used the PH's trigger stick. He preferred it because it was easier to adjust when set up.

There's your problem...Like anything else using sticks needs practice..The time to learn is not infront of a 60" Kudu....

I found sticks to be an essential component of my African hunting and I learned how to use the bipod type. Py PH had two types, one a home made device lashed together by some twine and the other was a commercial affair with telescoping legs and a canvas "sling" to rest the rifle on. Here in the states I used the Stoney Point with no issues.

Pete your correct! Yes, just like fly fishing, you don't wait until you get their to learn how it is down etc. I had no idea that PH's in Africa used sticks in the first and nobody bothered to go over the facts with me the day before either. I suppose they thought such things are a given but not to this Yank!

I still don't and won't use them, until I can not hold my rifle steady, then I'll do what I have always done and find myself a support and this won't be someone elses sticks.

Jorge-1 The US ARMY does a very good job of teaching it's troops how to use a rifle off-handed and trust me sir, this I can do without the help of sticks. Funny I have never seen an elephant shot with the client using a set of sticks! Well anyway Jorge I can still hold my own up to 200 yards on a killing area that is 12 x 12 inches. I can also shoot with either hand and perhaps a tad better with my left side, do to better vision in my left eye. However, makes no difference to me except for the rifles being right handed.

Tonk, I don't know where you hunted, but where I went on my one safari (east central Namibia) there were many places where the brush was too high to sit, go prone, or even use a conventional kneeling position, but too low or insubstantial to provide support.

Out of eight animals, I shot five standing with the sticks, and one from a high double kneeling position, resting on the side of the sticks (not the steadiest position but steadier than I would have been offhand).

As for the others, I shot one from standing, rested on the side of a tree, and one from the window of a tower stand. There was also a close range offhand follow-up shot at a kudu (fatally hit from the sticks but it ran a short distance and got up when we approached it).

Only once did I set up to shoot from sitting (at a blesbok at 200 yards), but the PH's dachshund decided that was a good moment to go lie down right under the muzzle of my .375, so I held fire.

In short, I'm a big fan of the sticks ... but also practiced a lot with a homemade pair, both dry fire and at the range, for 6+ months before the trip.

If you need shooting sticks to poke an elephant at 25 yards or less you have issues beyond the scope of this thread. I learned a little about shooting in the Corps, hope that's ok. back to the topic, thanks to them I took a 58 3/4" kudu at about 150 yards. Come to think of it, the only off-hand kill in Africa was the big wartie and I whacked him with a running shot off hand at 100 yards. Not bad for an amateur. Say, didn't you hunt with Saeed over on AR one time?

The answer to your question was NO!

Oh Yeah, now what is AR may I ask?

I'll get back to you, I have a few PMs out...

Tonk,

After LEARNING to use shooting sticks, I carry them when hunting anywhere, whether a small set for sitting in open country, or a taller, adjustable set that can be switched between sitting and standing heights.

They don't get used for every shot, because they're not needed for every shot. But with practice they can make a sitting shot as easy as prone, and just about double the effective range of a practiced offhand shooter. And yes, there are many places in North America where the vegetation prevents using a "natural" rest, just like in Africa.

My favorites are an adjustable 2-legged Bog-Pod, and set of Underwood sitting sticks I've had for at least 15 years. My wife, however, likes the 3-legged Bog-Pod for everything, and has made some spectacular shots off one.

Tonk,

Why are you saying you never hunted with Saeed? He paid for the whole trip, you hunted with my Safari company! You were using a different name back then, It was Cody or Latigo, or one of the many other aliases you made up.

This has never been a surprise to anyone that visits here, we all know who you are. We find great humor in all the stories you post up about shooting prowess and adventures when all the people that lived through your safari with Saeed know all the painful details of that trip reading about it on the AR site!

As has been said to you for more then a decade now, Post up what you know about, and read past and learn from what you don't. Regardless of your chosen name you have an easily identified internet "fingerprint". Nobody here is confused or surprised by this, that has seen and lived through your "expert" posts and opinions.

Bingo. Kinda like my fishing thread over on the Campfire. You cast enough and sooner or later....

Buehler, Buehler....

back on topic after the outing, this link might not work for everyone, but it has a good view of the sticks I used the last time I was there. Worked from buffalo at 25 yards to a kudu at over 350. jorge

buff hunt

In 13 years of full-time guiding I have only had 3 hunters shoot off-hand from 50 - 100 yards. All else used bi-pods, tri-pods, rocks, trees or my shoulder.

Best shot ever took a walking red hartebeest at a ranged 416 yards, dead rest from a tree, 375 Ultra Mag, 300gr @ 2950 fps. He is an ex-Marine.

Any sturdy tri-pod will work. And if a bi-pod works for you, use it.

JJ Hack now why don't you just pony up to the bar and go cry in your beer some more over that last episode. I myself got a kick over the fact "No one can pull anything over on me" Well pal I did and tuff crap to you once more.

Jorgie Boy, now if having a few pounds of fat around your middle gets you all excited, then do something about it, don't snack on donuts. Simply get off your arse as I suggested.

Now like the little school boy, who lost his sucker to another kid and the teacher got it back for him, your happy as can be. I been a Union Man for 30 friggin years and proud of it ginger snaps!

So now what Boys! You first JJ?

JJ Hack A SACK! Now did I lie when I said NO? Hell NO I did not lie mr ph, I never hunted with that man, on a trip perhaps and ate food with several people but NOT HUNT understand.

Now just so you and others know, this little fling with you JJ over at Hunt America in 2000 was bacause you and a couple of your buddies, shot your mouth off about UNIONS and those great
people who belong to them. Futher more YOU stated that I and NO ONE could pull anything over on YOU.......Remember that statement Mr HACK???

Now how about the charactor "DANCER" that you and many others totally loved to hear about his life events??? You and 5000 other people, then he died....I got over 270 E-mails from people, who really like this Ozark Hillbilly, which was yours truly JJ HACK. Yes, I put it over on YOU BIG TIME. Those were my true happenings. I been on HA ever since and have over 12,000 posts and people know who I am. What I post regards of my handle is the friggin truth period.

Now JJ, I told you once years ago, any friggin day you want to knock on my door, come right ahead. Funny you never came by or called JJ. my phone number is the same and I am sure Saeed would give it to you.

Saeed was turned down twice by me to hunt with him, yes I refused. Then I got a plan ticket in the mail and another phone call asking me to plesase come hunt with him and he would pay for 3 of the animals. I told him I was not going if I could not pay for 10 animals myself. Saeed did agree to that and so I went as he is a very convincing person. All the time believing I was going to "hunt with Saeed" it never happened.

Then I got the tables turned on me when the Outfitter Peter Harris, told me that he cannot take my money because Saeed paid for everything. Well later on Saeed and I got into a conversation about middle East politics and Yassir Arafat, I said he was a killer of people an Saeed said he is a good man and I support him. Things went sour after that conversation.

Now the other two people shooting were Todd Kindler, and some bench rest champion named Gary, who by the way said "I was over gunned" bringing my model 70 Winchesters in a .338 mag caliber and a 416-Rem mag.

My hat is off to my PH, who got into a bit of a riff with Saeed but that is another story, we ended up shooting the animal we went after.

William Venter is an excellent PH and I would hunt with him again but never in South Africa, where fences and herds are plentyful. Yes, I made the statement it was like shooting fish in a friggin barrel. Every day Saeed would tell me what to shoot, size of animal and so on I did so and did hunt in all kinds of weather never losing an animal. The others were just laying around while it rained or for some other reasons. My PH and I hunted period ofter miles from Saeed. My PH and I even had to take time for shooting the other animals that some others wounded!

Saeed told me he wanted this safari to be successful and once again to shoot whatever I wanted to shoot! There was a count of 58 animals "killed" and Saeed told me he wanted me to shoot any animal that I wished to and also told William Venter it was OK to take the animals. I shot 32 of those animals.

Now after getting home from this hunt, I called Saeed at his home and told him I was pissed about not going by our original deal made prior and I offered to write him a damn check and he refused. I never told him about the snake, bugs and other critters that were put in my bed. I did not appreciate that from total strangers! I don't cow down to someone because they have loads of money, they put their pants on the same damn way I do, one leg at a time. I also don't like practical jokes either from strangers regardless if they are paying for the night out on the town.

Now GARY O. - JJ HACK (nothing you will ever teach me about shooting or hunting pal!) Jorgie Boy and anybody else the balls in your court! Now am I to be Black Balled from the Internet gents? I don't think so people!!!

Black Balled? that made me chuckle! You been banned from more hunting forums than any one i know.. Don't forget "Mike Boyd" and about a dozen others...all in all you are just a serial liar and its sad that a man earns himself a reputation like that, as it will never go away..

Mr UK you don't know jack crap about me, just what you read by some others who been for 10 years trying real hard to push me into outer space with their BS. Got cha once more JJ and sidekicks.

You another wet behind the ears kid who most likely can't tie his shoe in the dark! Now go suck up to someone who gives a Tinkers Damn what you write.

You can spin any fairytale you wish in your world. When you called Saeed, The man who paid 100% of your trip with all the animals you shot and then complained that he was not paying your shipping and taxidermy bill, as well, we all felt that was the cherry on top of an otherwise pathetic excuse for a true and grateful sportsman.

I'll give you this much, you were the brunt of more jokes, and humor then any single person in my 18 year career, or that of any one of the Professionals involved. We spoke of your childish antics for nearly a decade after that hunt.

Now that you have come clean about your one single trip to Africa how about all the posts you have made here in the last couple months about your various experiences with all that DG and your big guns.

You could not afford the taxidermy and shipping of your trophies when everything else was paid for? Yet you boast about the DG hunting you have done? You admit you have told long tales and outright lies about your other on line personalities dying, only to get a free hunt that you complained about the whole time you were there and the whole time after you came home?

Tell the people here how you were a complete outcast left to sit alone every night because nobody in that camp could stand to be around you for one second! We nearly had to hire in additional PH's because none wanted to hunt with you.

Tell them about the baby eland you shot still nursing......... against the judgement of the PH Willem. He told you it was a baby, you replied "it's big enough for me" Your without a doubt the most clueless, uncultured uneducated, socially inept excuse for a man any of us has ever met in our lives.

I'll give you this, We have been laughing about you for a decade! Can't say that about anyone else in all of our combined careers!

To address the OP, I seldom do any sort of big game hunting without sticks. I don't always use them -- in fact, I prefer to use almost any other sort of rest that's available -- but I always have them handy if there's no other option. Lately, I've been trying out Cabela's sticks. They work as well as any I've tried.

JJ HACK your not only a LIAR but a BAD ONE! You are better off at playig the playboy hunter in Africa than being a husband and father to your kids you left right? Now who is supporting them JJ???

My Taxidermy bill ran some $14,000 dollars mr ph and it was all done by a St.Louis firm. My only complaint to the little man from the middle east was that I never got the animals that I shot on that so called FREE HUNT!!! I offered to pay not once but 4 friggin times and Peter Harris stated NO, it was done deal. So go take a flying F*(&^&^ at the moon mr ph.

The phone call to Saeed had nothing to do with him paying for my shipping or taxidermy work. The friggin check was written to Peter Harris for shipping & dipping/packing etc. all before I ever left his home. So go stick your head of someone body else A$$ mr ph. You got taken twice by me on the internet and it burns to the core doesn't it JJ.

I'll say this one more time want ta bee playboy hunter that your not! You want a big piece of my A$$ just come up on the mountain or down to the union hall and I'll give you all you can handle just like I stated 10 F*&T^&*T^ years ago. NOW GO CRY IN YOUR BEER ONCE MORE!

You can NOT drag my name down as low as yours. I supported my kids and put them all through the University of their choice, plus bought them all new cars the their 2nd year when their grades were top shelf.

Your trying to make me out to be some "Charity Case" well you just come around and bring your camera. I'll introduce you to my banker JJ after you show up pal. JJ without UNIONS this country called AMERICA would not exist understand, no matter what you say or how you slice the cheese. "UNIONS are here to stayz" The Country Boy bids you and your bandwagon of PM'ers good day. I Will Survive You Betcha!!!

This is so good it bears repeating over here. Pasted over from his other lunatic rants on my Fishing thread at the Campfire. This man is certifiable:







Well I think he's got three bases covered in the kook field; pathological liar, paranoia and sociopath.. It's so easy catching these nuts. And I also see Pete and others have exposed you as well. And no more PMs Norman, or I'll tell your mother...

Dang what a mess, I just want to have a nice hunt in Africa.

Gunner

I feel your pain gunner. And all I wanted was to post a picture of my fish over at the Campfire. Hopefully, you've weeded through the chaff and obtained some good perspectives. jorge

Geez....been following these coupla threads...I have another addition to my "ignore" list...and it ain't JorgeI or JJ.....

Gettin it done, thanks Jorge.

Gunner

Husband and father to my kids, Who is supporting them now? You have me confused with somebody else Mike Boyd, That comment has no connection to me or my life!

Never posted a negative statement about unions in my life, again you have me confused with somebody else.

You're rude and racist behaviour in my camp was what troubled me. Using the phrase "stupid N****" or F***ing Stupid N**** to my black staff because you think they don't understand English was just the beginning of your trouble on that trip. Ordering them around as if they worked for you was next. Your vulgar reprehensible rude behaviour was enough to make everyone hearing you feel embarrassed....... for you! The entire camp went from feeling angry and upset that you were even invited, to feeling sad for you. Such a pathetic helpless old man. You must have been ridiculed and beaten down as a child (likely through adult hood as well) to have this disturbing, loud boastful yet moronic personality. It is like touretts and ADHD combined into an uneducated anti social angry drunk.

And you show this exact set of traits in these posts right now!

Referring to the man that paid for your trip as a Camel Jockey and a sand N**** was the apex of anti social, uneducated, rude and disrespectful behaviour. You thought it was all funny, yet this man picked you out of millions of people and paid for your trip completely.

As far as the hunt America site, Again you have me confused with somebody else. I don't visit that site, and have only been there for a look see about 10-12 years ago. Never frequented the place so your thinking of somebody else.

Anybody care to venture a guess as to whether he'll return? Hack perhaps a picture of said "socio" is in order. I mean just in case....

Jorge, I don't really pay the known trolls that much attention, but its hard to forget the "train wreck" of a hunt and its aftermath over on AR...If there was ever a model for how not to conduct yourself when a guest of somebody elses generosity, Tonk's conduct on that hunt was surely it...

Anyway, thanks for shinning the light on this latest visitation of this particular low life...

Regards,

Peter

You bet Pete. I had forgotten about it until I was reminded and a quick couple of PMs over there and I had my answer. I need to search some more to see if I can find a picture of this lunatic.

Careful though, or he'll set the Unions on you!

But you probably had a similar PM to me no doubt!

Well he sure as hell fits that profile. I was watching a TV show last night on mobsters and the whole union/Hoffa/Giancanna issue was being discussed. Reminded me of this thread

Makes you wonder how the Military won so many damn wars without being Unionised!

ASk they Dutch, their military is union and see how well they did!

A cursory search over on AR yielded some amusing highjinks from our resident psycho. And from the pot calling kettle black department, I'm hearing that if he was a foot taller he'd be round....

Mike Boyd the kook

"Chigger" : At least a very appropriate choice of name!

A quote from Saeed regarding this guy Mike Boyd
/chigger/latigo/dancer/cody/tonk, whatever other name he has:

Peter Harris is a gentleman and Mike Boyd is a brainless idiot, it is as simple as that.

He is too stupid to understand the Internet. He goes on to other web sites and pretends to tell everyone he is The Great White Hunter.

He has no idea people pick him out before he manages 10 posts - they just give him enough rope to hang himself again, and again, and again.

Look at it this way, I have not found much truth in what he says.

I will give you an example of how stupid he is.

He likes to hi-jack the whole conversation at the dinner table, and he has the audacity to tell all of us about his hunt during that day.

After he finished, his PH whispers to me "is Mike talking abour our hunt?", then shakes his head and walks away.

Should we start a pool to take bets to see if he returns?

JJ Hack A Sack, now who is Bull Chiting who?

You can post until the sun goes down JJ, you got your A$$ put in a bottle and it hurts doesn't it boy.

Now as far as the little man from the middle east goes, I like many in the passed will not tolerate his JOKES and I sure as hell never laughed at any of them. Willem Venter sent me a letter shortly after telling me how several were jealous of my shooting and getting close to the camel jocky.

Yeah, I do NOT stand by someone who broke their word to me understand JJ HACK AND IF YOU WANT A PIECE OF MY A$$ JUST SAY SO mr ph, who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, do you JJ. I do not associate with people regardless who stand by and tell me they support a frigging person who is a damn terrorists period. All of those middle east countries have been putting the shaft to the USA for years and turn right around and send terrorists to try and kill us and this Sand Jigger is no damn different.

Well there goes the pool idea....

I don't think anybody has been exposed more times and faster than you Boyd. There are literally HUNDREDS of posts about you and your sorry ass over on AR, a website you had the BALLS, no check that, the ignorance that you wouldn't be caught? "What's AR" you said. You are obviously mentally imbalanced or a social retard (or both) to have been outed the way you have yet you keep coming back here for ridicule. Take a hike jerkoff you are a waste of skin and band-with.

Back on the subject as originally posted, I have tried a couple of the commerical models and really like the Trigger Stick. It is quick to adjust, very stable and pretty quiet.

Shooting off of them is an important thing to get used. I'm glad I did.

Bi-pod, tri-pod, tree, my shoulder. Depends on which one is closest when that kudu walks into view. By closest I mean bi-pod,....

Gary O, I trust this answers your question?

JJ, I'm not at all familiar African hunting, but I assume that as a PH, you've had clients from all walks of life--------most better, some worse-----or MUCH worse. But do you still have the final say with who stays in your camp? Could you have sent this Boyd character packing for the betterment of your other clients (and staff) who had to put up with him. If I'm following this thread correctly, he wouldn't have had a refund coming, that would have been between you and Saeed. Just curious if that's even an option, and if you've ever exercised it in your career. No reason to let a bad apple spoil the whole barrel.

Jorgie Boy, one thing is for sure and any PH with commoon sence will agree: NO ONE is going to let a client shoot some 33 animals and NOT have the permission to do so. The cost on such animals at that time was close to $80,000 dollars.

Now if SAEED did not give permission for me to do this, who did I ask you frankly? Now every night Peter Harris would be confronted by Saeed and want to know the animal count and who shot what, so he could put up on his web sight and inform everyone how the safari was going great.

Yes, I was told to shoot any plains game animal period. Only Saeed made the suggestion and gave me a lecture on the oldest, then the one with the biggest horns etc. It got a little boring to say t he least Jorgie. I was going to leave the damn group after 3 days of BS from Saeed and his loyal groupies.

Willem Venture suggested to me to stay and shoot the hell out of things, costing the "Sand Man" a pocket full of money and Peter Harris and PH's & crew make more to boot also. So I did just that understand.

JJ you asked about why Saeed picked me out of all the people in the world for this hunt, (actually those on his web sight at the time) it was because I would not "Cow Down" to the little man on his AR web sight and he was determined for me to do so. The whole hunt idea with me getting a plan ticket ($1,500 bucks) was his way of putting one over on me. I intended to leave after Peter Harris told me Saeed was paying for everything (which he did NOT DO!) I paid for my 10 animals as far as the dip/packing goes and he tried real hard to have Peter Harris, stick me with all 33 animals but that never washed. I only paid for my original 10 animals.

Saeed LIED and broke his word to me, regardless if it was to be his F&*(&*() JOKE! I got over on his A$$ too and it must of burned bad for him also. JJ Hacks BOSS took my PH and me Leopard hunting 3 nights (Saeed did NO and DID NOT want us to shoot leopard ) but the word did not hold water, we want and had a good time hunting a big cat.

Sorry, Saeed you don't rule my A$$ and I am surely not one of your Sand Slaves Pal.........Don't you ever forget it little man. Now stick your money and 50,000 sq ft inherited house up your little [bleep].

222=Rem, I'll answer that question for you sir! JJ HACK was never in that camp at the time, his Boss or Partner was glad I was there because I made him a ton of money by shooting all those so called animals. Now how in the world can I do that without the permission of the Outfitter Peter Harris and Saeed the Client??? I rest my case on that fact. 58 animals shot between 8 hunters and yes I shot the 33 plus 2 of those that were indeed wounded by small bore rifles.

So, why did you say you never heard of AR or Saeed when I asked you? you are a [bleep] liarPOS scumbag. You send me threatening PMs picking a fight. I have better things to do than pick a fight with an almost seventy year old geezer with a serious mental disorder. FOAD [bleep].

Don't take it personally. Welcome to the InterNUTnet. Only takes one to screw up a thread, but I see some of us have tried to answer your post. Best of luck on your hunts.

How can a thread on shooting sticks turn so ugly?

Question on those 3-legged Red Devil Bog Pods; can they bundle up tight enough to hold in one hand by the handle to walk with like a staff?? Or are they too bulky???

Thanks

Jorgie Boy, I am supposed to reply to your beconning call? Hell NO I won't and I had no clue of what AR meant, I knew what AccurateReloading was flyboy. You should have been a little more through in your want to know A$$ Wipe!

Listen up FOOL, picking a fight you say? Well now I seriously doubt if that would be a feather in my cap, mr marshmellow balls.
Now if you lacking take a vitamin pill, I hear that helps people who can't handle the pressure. Calm down a little have someone put ice on your forehead.... better get a lot of ice! Your F(*)&^ head is as big as a watermellon. Chow Baby!!!

Well, no Spelling Bee winner here....

Maybe a spelling bee weiner...

Hand sizes vary, but I don't think they are too bulky.

Wow...just wow.....

yeah.....chow Babby......

Thanks

I prefer to bring my own sticks. I have found I dont always like what the PH has. Sometimes the PH uses what a client left behind. A few years back my PH had a set of those skinny wobbly ones that I hated.
If you are in hilly country like the Karoo of SA bipods are more versatile.
I like the 3 leg Bog Pod the best I guess. I haven't tried the new version yet.
I have played with a set of bipod Trigger Sticks at the farm and they work as a walking stick and can be used a a monopod while walking. I do wory about the long term durability though.

Late to this thread, but if you can stay inside a 12x12 at 200 all day long, with a hunting rifle, you should have been in the marksmanship unit in the ARmy, you could have been setting national records in no time at all. And thats not under pressure shooting like hunting is, you have a better rifle, better sights and time to set it up right.

Shame on the Kudu too. That would have been a nice one. Thats one reason one should research and ask questions and do practice with the tools for the task well before one ever leaves on the hunt. Tough to do though if you don't know or don't take the time to ask.

rost495....I was 3rd highest in my Battalion with an M1-Garand

I just want to know this - how did he know it was a 60+ Kudu....? Did the critter send him his measuerments? Was there an info card on the bull?

As far as I am concerned, its just a big rack / horns or whatever until you can measure.

Which now begs the question - Mexican or Colombian?

The way you describe you'd be a national champion with an M1 and have national records set that would still stand to this day. What was your score? 3rd highest in Battalion should have went straight to MTU.

After reading all of the thread though its all self explanatory now.

Ever since i got a pair of underwood shooting sticks I've carried them and at one point bought a spare. They are bunjicorded, fold up and fit in about a foot long sheath; they make a sitting shot quite stable enough to make a fairly long shot doable. I also practiced for and used the tripod style sticks in Africa; they are a very practical solution to thick and irregular brush. I think, speaking for myself that the offhand shot on game is about the least desirable there is though admit to taking it a time or two. I do use the Stoney point tripod too.

He used the same "rule of DUMB" for the eland... And the laughing continues.

Mike or Tonk:

I know Jorge and Saeed (and their families) well. I only know of you from those on your "safari" and from your comments on various forums.

I'll leave it at this:

The fellows and families I know are gracious gentlemen and ladies. I can think of no compliment to you.

Trying to be as kind as I can, as my daughter used to say when she was 13 or so, "Get a life."

There are wonderful opportunities for joy in this world. Other than through my faith and being with my family, I find my most enjoyable experiences with friends and on safari.

I'm sorry you chose to miss that. You abused the chance you had to get to really get know a kind and generous man in Saeed (and at the same time, experience a great hunt with JJHack). Your sad, sad loss. Alas!

I can promise you that your life would be a bit better if you had somehow forgotten your prejudices and preconceptions and just had a good time, following the lead of folks a bit less angry about life than you. You could have learned much about friendships, generosity, loyalty and respect for others.

BTW, how is your "terminal" illness? Don't I remember on Accurate Reloading that you were quite ill before the safari and it was your last chance to go? I hope your recovery is complete and maybe the good food and camaraderie (and the 33 free animals) helped?

I certainly hope so.

ZZZZZzzzzzingggggg!

Judge is a kind and gentle soul. I prefer the FOAD approach. Oh and I forgot; shhh, wait until Tonk finds out I'm one of those raft-rider immigrants...

And a non-union one at that, I'll bet.....

But of course.

Judge,........Since YOU brought it up, I'll tell you the facts of this whole ordeal. Mr. Saeed never liked what I said on his form back in 99. I didn't pull any friggin punches whatsoever understand.

Now Saeed no doubt was steaming, when I stated that the Arabs and JEWS were one in the same! Read your Bible. Now he also never liked the fact that I gave my opinions on the middle east and what should be done with those countries, who have been bleeding the USA and citizens of their tax dollars for decades.

His way to get back at me was through his meaningless genorosity of telling me he wanted to hunt with ME. I declined twice but then I said to myself: "Maybe this guy is sincere (after I receive a $1,500 dollar plan ticket) but it did not take me long to figure out his plan at all, once, I arrived at the Lodge. I was to be the JOKE of his Safari. However, I turned the tables on the little sand flea and so be it.

Our discussion about middle east politics brought forth anger from his eyes! I told him what I thought of the leader of the PLO (Palistine Liberation Organization) which is nothing more than an umbrella for terrorism around the world, killing many innocent people) Saeed stated: "He is a good man and I support him" and walked away never saying another word to me hence forth. I have no use for anyone who supports the PLO period.

The practical jokes, that were played on me are of no importance now, at the time I was ticked you bet. I caught Saeed sneaking into my room at 4:30 in the morning. I confronted him and he just said he wanted to make sure I was up in time to hunt. I had never been late and was always the 1st or second person up at that lodge. Bull Chit! He had something up his sleeve and that is when I was told to hunt and shoot anything I wanted to kill.

Then he left on his own. Later he packed into a truck and went hunting with others. I NEVER HUNTED with the little fellow named Saeed period! I posted my thoughts about the whole frigging hunt on Accurate Reloading back then twice and twice they were removed. "Like shooting fish in a barrel"

The funny thing is that Saeed knew all about "DANCER" (the Ozark Character that JJ loved to read about), all the time and laughed his A$$ off on the phone, when I told him prior to the hunt. His calling me the "master of deception" was I suppose a good wording. JJ Hack got Slicked over not once but twice.......He can go cry in his beer!

Saeed also didn't like the fact, I told him my wife could out shoot him at 200 yards... Wow!!! Now that brought sparks quickly and he was pissed. So Judge I don't need any lectures from anyone. The deal was done and Saeed did NOT get his revenge on my statements made on his forum. He broke his WORD to me in a deal made over the phone, I will not forget that fact, he lied all the time. He had already made his plan of trickery!

JJ HACK your a LIAR!!! YOU were never at that hunt period! Willem Venture never liked Saeed and never did the things Saeed said he did at that hunt or the dinner table. So you stick that up your rectum HACKIE BOY! Now JUDGE, my soul is right with my GOD and JESUS CHRIST!!! I account to no man from the middle-east.

Judge I abused not one damn thing! Saeed choose to abuse me on that hunt but it did not impeed me from surviving the incident.
You can blow your horn about those people, it falls on deaf ears. I can tell you once again, I shot 33 animals and cleaned up the F*(&@* ups of two others and their animals. All with the permission of the little Arab.

Judge,I had a great time with my PH Willem Venter, we laughed are heads off after every animal was shot in Saeeds name.
Now I am positive Saeed and HACKIE will thank you for your pat upon their backsides and posting this little jester on their behalf.

Who knows, maybe Saeed and HACKIE will take you hunting with them soon. You might even get to clean JJ rifle and shine Saeeds boots! I don't need a mediator understand, go sing to the choir. I have done damn well over the years for myself, especially in my confrontations, with those who choose to try and give me a blackeye.

Jorgie I said this once and I'll repeat it again just so you can read it once more. YOU are the lowest type of a scumbag, who's is a very ARROGANT SON OF SOB.....Son Of A BITCH!!! Now I'll send you a Union Button come election time.

Fresh from the Hoffa union archives; The psycho that keepss on giving... Arrogant???me???? say it ain't so..

Tonk.

Your last two posts afirm what I have come to believe during the last few months reading posts on this forum..

You are one dumb mutherphucker.

And a union card is about the only way someone as stupid as you are could ever get gainfully employment.

I bet that last profundity went over like a fart in church with the man upstairs. Wonder from what passage of the bible he got that from? and the irony of the last sentence and Jesus I guess escaped him. Keep them coming. Hack was right, you are the BEST source for embarrassing behavior. hahaha

Yeah Jorgie I am a sinner! However, so was St. Peter, when he cut the ear of the Roman Soldier in the garden and Jesus NOT "Allah" or "Mohammed" put it back on his head.

Flyboy now you need to take a hold of your head and pull it out your rectum. Christ said, If you don't have a sword sell your cloak and get one!

Now you can SUCK up to the Arab Saeed all you want, I'll remain with my original thoughts on those in the middle east, who are high on the lists of running things in their countries. Those that say one thing and support the PLO with their bank accounts. Money that has put many of our troops in body bags and sent them home from hospitals without arms and legs.

Oh, so that's why.

I was wondering.

Get your facts straight Pal!

Oh... so THAT is the sound made when a vinegar truck collides with a water truck...

Colo-Wolf, I guess I should have barrowed your $5000 dollar muzzle loader for camp perry but they would think I had to much of an advantage. Ha ha ha.....get a life Pal.

How many times you been to Camp Perry?

I did my shooting in the 3rd & 5th Army Pal.

WEll Jim 62, what ever the hell you call yourself! Yes, I might be considered dumb by sum but I sure know how to get a job done in a big hurry.

So since you like to unload on someone you have never met, I'll just ivite you or any other SOB that wants some action to visit the mountain and get your hands dirty.

UNION FOREVER AND EVER.....VOTE DEMOCRATE NEXT ELECTION A$$WIPE!!

Now where in the blazes did JJ Hackasack go too? May be he is checking on his ex-Old Lady.....Ummmmmmmm OK JJ.

Somebody's unraveling. Hope there aren't any water towers nearby...

Multiply this by millions and one can partially understand why this country is inthe condition it's in.

For one thIng, sir, while the unions one day were perhaps necessary, they are now, in some specific forms they've taken, a cancer, and ruinous.

Only if they are for jumping off!

Saeed also didn't like the fact, I told him my wife could out shoot him at 200 yards...


Whats even the point in that statement? My wife could outshoot you on the 1000 yard line. It doesn't get folks anywhere but then again you don't seem to understand much anyway.

So this guy has been spewing BS on the net for over 10 years? He can't even pull a fact from one short post by someone, acts like he's 12, takes a trip from someone who thinks he is terminal, dislikes the guy for his politics and won't kowtow, BUT takes his money essentially licking the guys boots.

Have I got this covered essentially? Think he needs a life or a book written, "Forever Young and Dumb".

He is a master of stupidity. He loves to throw complete and irrelevant non-sense up in the air stream and see what might stick, or rile people up. He continues to fling stuff into the fan about my family. Somebody sold him a bill of goods, My family is wonderful and he seems to think it's some kind of disjointed mess? Makes no difference he lies about his skills, accomplishments, and everything else positive, then he lies about being sick and dying so he covers the entire spectrum of his life's lies. I suppose for him it's better to lie about who you really are then to actually admit the truth about being a complete incompetent loser. He does not even possess rudimentary social skills or even the basics of polite public behavior, among being a complete racist to my black staff!

He tells tall tales of Union power, then he speaks about the "poor union" then he's a boxing fitness over achiever, and then he's dying and may never see africa. How many dozens of posts on this site has he written about his dangerous game experience and the proper firearms for those species? Yet he's been to Africa a single time to hunt plains game, could not afford any part of the trip including the ticket, the Dip Pack or the freight for the trophies..... nothing, not a single penny!

He will write about how he has all his trophies but they were never sent to him. The dip pack company put them in inventory for spares. He would not pay the bill. He shot so much sub standard game that his PH wanted to kill him for the embarrassment of coming back to the lodge with "baby" animals. He thinks Willem was his "buddy" Willem was the main source of entertainment for us. Willems stories about mikes pathetic shooting, poor judgement and inability to tell right from left 100% of the time had us rolling on the floor with laughter.

His eland was truly still nursing and he shot it anyway, after Willem said no it's way too small. This went on and on for days, combined with the days of not hunting and searching for his lost and wounded game. Not even his "big gun" could kill his game and allow us to find it easily. Truth is he was scared to death of that rifle. Somebody unloaded it and had him shoot it. It seemed as if it recoiled more empty when he squeezed the trigger then when it was actually loaded and fired!

He will soon be finding another place to haunt people on the net. We will sure miss his idiotic and silly nonsense. When was the last time you heard a guy of 70ish invite guys he does not even know over to his house to have a "fight" with him? How truly insane is this? He threatens people physically to fight him? His powers of articulation are so pathetic that he cannot even write a legible response with the spelling skills of a 2nd grader, the grammar of a 5th grader, and the logical means of forming a sentence of an immigrant in the USA for a year or so.

No wonder he defaults to wanting to fight, it's all he has left to do, and most anyone on this site with functional limbs would likely knock him out in a heartbeat, he's an older fat incompetent loser with maybe 10-15 seconds of aerobic capacity. Yet he writes here as if he's Sugar Ray leonard with the bank account of Steve Forbes, and the hunting and shooting skills of a Licensed PH.

The humor we get to enjoy here with his ranting stories is priceless, they could make a visa commercial about him.

Ticket to Africa 1800,00
Shipping trophies home 1200,00
Hearing his ranting lies and boastful non-sense............ priceless!

Jim,

I think the one saving grace on the situation is that at 70, the guy has one foot in the pine box...One day not too soon, the various internet hunting forums will smell that much sweeter...

Regards,

Peter

Jeez Louise !!!!!

I've been a casual user of some of these hunting/shooting sites for perhaps 12 years or so. I recognize a few of youse guys from over the years, even PM'd a couple.

I will tell you all up front -- I have never ever run across a mental basket case like this "Tonk". Did they run out of straight jackets in chitown -- ?? --

Take your anti-psychotic meds, tosser - they were prescribed for a reason.....

I just looked at this thread again for the first time in a couple of days. I had Tonk/mike/Chigger/ Hubermoron on ignore for a long time, took him off of it for a while and now, well... there are no words that I will use to describe what I think of him except to say that it tells us a lot about the typical union Democrat. One would have to spot his a batch of IQ points to get him up to zero.

As to who is credible and honorable here I will say that JJ Hack has become a good freind since he moved to this side of the state and I consider him to be one of the finest men I havemet from this site and am proud to call him freind. I sent him a reply to a picture he sent me of him with his sn and a batch of catfish they caught this week, my reply stating basically "does your kid even KNOW how lucky he is to have you for a Dad?" He and I went through similar experiences with ex wives who bacame addicted to something (no more will be said about that nor details shared) and I know something of the pain he went through watching someone you loved very much self destruct then go thier own way without you, after having a family together and giving yor all to that family. He has full custody of his son, does a GREAT job of raising him and this is NOT an easy nor simple task for a man in his proffesions.

Calling him out is REALLY low, and terminally stupid. Shows real low breeding and lack of intelect at a minimum. I could go on, but that about covers it. WONK is now back on ignore. Probably doesn't matter to him but my life i better without looking at his drivel.

Maybe the bats have all left his Bell Free and we'll soon be rid of him. This guy's arguably the "best" sociopath we've had here for a long time!

Rid of who?

I'm thinking wikipedia will use him as an example of the internet term "troll". He is after all the absolute perfect example of that term for the Wikipedia site.

Oh fer cryin' out loud.......

Well JJ I see your got back from my PM! Well, more lies as I read your Post.......nothing new about JJ Hacks tactics is there JJ?. Now if you would like to put up some of your hard earned dollars, where your mouth seems to come out your A$$, I'll show the Check, that was written to Peter Harris & Co.at his table for the Dip/packing/shipping of those 10 animals that I shot. Now of course we both know you won't take that walk don't we.

Yes, I was a union officer once upon a time of the UAW JJ and those on his bandwagon. I also have an E-mail from Willem Venture on that hunt and those that seemed to want to keep us from doing what we set out to do, just in case your interested ph.

Saeeds sucking me into that hunt for the things I said to him about the PLO and terrorists in the middle east were indeed true. Any American who believe that this little man has never supported these Anti-American terrorists has their heads stuck in the sand.

Now JJ Hackie, I told you once, anytime you want to hook up buddy, I let you try your best to KO me and I think that is fair don't you. I been waiting 10 years for your mouth to back up your words, plan and simple. However, you run off your mouth on the key board trying your very best to belittle me. It is NOT going to happen JJ, man with out a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out. I'll try my very best JJ to go longer than your stated 15 seconds. LOL

By the way JJ I shot what ever my PH said to shoot! However JJ you were not even there, so you are talking hear say from your Sand Flea buddy. Now go call up your TEXAS Buddy, who has been in prison for Child Porn, you know the guy you stayed with back then to save a few bucks.

I am positive that the passing of "Dancer" may have screwed your mind around somewhat and you still seem to have difficulty dealing with the loss.LOL.... I guess your still the head PH at that lodge right? Not the owner as you suggested to me once upon a time and you did work for Peter Harris for wages back then too right?

Well JJ I am no lover of Muslims and won't ever be, so just file that fact, no need to send the Sand Flea a PM, he already knows the score on that issue. Now Jorgie Boy, why don't you go get a face do, your looking awful around the gills my boy. Hey, Jorge just so you know I am not 70 years old for crying out loud.LOL Never mind Jorgie I look 15 years younger than your A$$ does anyway.Ha ha ha seriously Jorgie!
It must have been all that jet flight years ago. Your looking plan run down to me, perhaps it's just the camerman hey? JJ, now don't forget to wipe your tears up at the bar ok. Oh Yeah!

GOD BLESS AMERICA....AMEN!!!

Huh? Push a little harder on your mom's computer keyboard, I can't hear you.....

Might want to try the better computer in the upstairs when you can sneak back up there. Mommy will probably be at church tomorrow so instead of looking at your usual schoolgirl voyeur sites use the good computer and maybe I will be able to see what you are trying to say. That old one she gave you for your basement apartment just ain't cuttin it.

"Plan and simple".

Note to self...Do NOT start a thread about shooting sticks....




Stick to something less contentious, like Barnes V. Nosler, or the Optics Forum.....

I'll gladly take that bet, scan the cancelled check and post it here. Along with the scores from your M-1 Garand qualifications. Let's see the Garand was replaced by the M-14 in the mid-50s so I hope you kept them in acid-free paper...."babby"... As your age, not to worry, we have pictures of your corpulent geezer ass coming and BTW, we'll start a caption contest. Please do continue to unhinge, we're having a blast!

http://www.sportingwoodcreations.com/cat_shoot_sticks_10.php

Lets see the cancelled check, He cannot produce a cancelled check that he wrote to Peter, Peter would never have accepted it, nor did the Peter Operate the dip pack. Andreas Duhring owns/owned and operates the dip pack operation in Pretoria. He would not have taken a personal check from anyone either. It was Visa, travelers checks, or cash.

His knowledge of me or anyone else is wacky as can be. His comments about the "pot to piss in or window to throw it out" is hysterical........if he only knew! His comments about somebody in texas that I stayed with? Just how much drugs and alcohol does it take to create stories or fabricate statements like this?

There has to be more then one person involved, he must have a twin or other sibling. This is simply just too much stupid to come from a single person.

Well Jorgie Boy, the US Army has my record of firing expert with the M1-Garand rifle flyboy....Dah!

Oh by the way, I am coming to Florida for some redsnapper fishing, just so you know Pal. I don't need your address I already have it, thanks.

Oh one more thing, remember the Twin Tower in the Big Apple and your Sand Flea friends support for the PLO and other terrorists that pull it off........Ya Baby!

12 step programs are available free of charge...

JJ Hackie Sackie, lets see your money Punk! Now Peter Harris sure as hell did take my money and that is a fact. I paid by CHECK JJ and so did the Sand Flea. Hell he carried a friggin a ledger of checks.

Now JJ just so you get the story straight, that shipment of animal skins, was not sent at first because of and lack of payment period. I had to call Mr. Andreas to find out what was going on. He stated that his people had made a mistake (mistake my ass) and after I told him my wishes and to get them here asap, (lawyers name) they were finally ship.

However, JJ and Jorgie Boy, several of the trophy animals I had picked out and shot previously (outside the lodge property) were NOT sent, I am positive the little man from the desert sand had something to do with that also.

JJ now come on boy! Do you think Peter Harris is going to let me leave his house without PAYING HIM THE MONEY??? You may have worked for him in the past JJ but you don't have a clue of his business practices and money. Especially when the Sand Flea said he was not going to pay for my animals to be dip/packed or shipped. He did however pay for every one elses fees! Peter likes his money and he got paid in full. JJ you are an [bleep] to the highest degree indeed.

"Texas Hunter" was the guy you bunked with remember JJ!!! The shooting of animals was fun for Willem and I. It was sort of like shooting COWS in a farmers field really. It helped with the strees of going back to the sand fleas crew, who continuously showered him with pats on the back and laughter of his poor jokes. Now what with the high fence and all and animals all sectioned off for us. Not much hunting involved really. It was more of what I would call a CAN HUNT!!!

JJ< I'll be waiting like I have for the last 11 years, for you to KO me, hell bring along Jorgie Boy too. He can be your corner man, if he doesn't trip over his own feet trying to find the proper corner.

I got better things to do JJ & Jorgie Boy. Don't let the gaitors get your fat A$$ Jorgie.LOL PS I am going on vacation to the mountains, so please don't be disappointed if I don't return your Bull $hit jibberish with a post of my own. Yall have fun now.

We just need to keep these "pearls of the nuthouse" for posterity. So how about it, I'm still waiting for that response on the wager. Being the M-1 went out of service in the mid-50s, just how many times do you want me to show the world that aside from being a bigoted psycho, you're a pathological liar as well. Do keep them coming old man. Oh and we also love your command of spelling, sentence structure and syntax. as to my address, is that a threat or a promise?

I do thank you for the fun though

Boy ain't that the truth! I just got done reading the whole thread. Ole Tonk/Boyd/chigger reminds me of a Christmas goose....full of schitt. Was glad to see JudgeG post over here, even if it was about the turd ball. Hope the OP got the info he needed, after all the BS.....


maddog

Wonder what takes him so long to craft one of his rapier retorts? probably still trying to figure out the 0 and I button on the computer. What's the matter Boyd, cat's got your fingers?? I know, let's have a spelling contest! Babby??

Sorry Jorgie Boy, I just got back from eating out with friends of ours, great steak it was indeed. Now Jorgie Boy, while I am away on vacation in the mountains for next 3 weeks, I don't want you to get stressed out, not having me post back at your Jibberish Bull $chit avvy.

Now while I am away, I want you and the rest of the Americans to focus, on the Twin Towers event and just who it was that brought those buildings down. TERRORISTS that are supported by those who bankroll them with their money and claim to be American supporters. Yeah Right, Like the Sand FLea!

Now Jorgie Boy a message from LABOR IN AMERICA! BUY AMERICAN AND THANK GOD ALMIGHTY THAT TRADE UNIONS ARE STILL BUILDING THIS GREAT COUNTRY!!! BUY AMERICAN AND BE AN AMERICAN IN BODY AND SOUL.....AMEN!!!

You must still be using your mom's basement computer instead of the good one in the main house. Either that or you are not hitting the keys hard enough as I STILL can't see anything you are posting

Still no copy of the check for the trophies? Big surprise!

Still waiting on you to scan the check and post it as well as the email.....





Now he's Red Snapper fishing in the mountains.

Boyd, when you make up [bleep] as fast as you do, you really need to go back and read what you wrote so you can keep your own bullshit straight. Do carry on embarrassing yourself. We're SO enjoying this...

Hallo Tonk, hope I catch you before your vacation. Did you hunt/shoot 33 animals at Willem Venter's place?

FWIW, I started this tread and got some useful info and then bailed out. Highjacking was not the big problem for me, Tonk the Troll was. Would it not be best to just ignore him? BTW: he sent me a PM suggesting I go F____ myself. Bet his mamma would be proud. To those who actually helped, thanks...

Tonk, two words..."frontal lobotomy"

Gunner

You would not be the first, by far, to put the troll on ignore. Trolls go away whe they perceive that they are not rattling cages and getting good folks riled up.

I have taken collabsable sitting down sized sticks and then relied on the standing sticks that the tracker, who carries them constantly and is accustomed to setting them up hundreds of times per year for hs PH's clients for most of my shooting. I find plastic sticks to be too noisy. Not hard to make a set right on the spot there from natural materials, either. My .02 and experience for adding into the mix and gettig this back on track.

The Bog Pod Red set is good for practicing from while over here, however.

I think the procedure is a fait accompli'

I would also like to extend my apologies to the originator of this thread, and I certainly hope you gained some useful information. In the end it was a most productive thread in several ways, we all learned something about the use of shooting sticks both from professionals and from neophytes and perhaps more important of all, we weeded out a troll who's been polluting this site for far too long and for that we have all of us to thank. jorge

News flash from the loser via PM:


Now to do that Jorgie Boy, just give JJ a call and jump in the shower together! You pair of Queer minded fellows deserve one another.....I don't want to know who's top!!! LOL

Apparently his red snapper fishing in the mountains is on hold whilst he figures out where the hell one finds them there. What an idiot. Entertaining but man, I think we have the world-champion socio-loser

HAHA, thats funny Jorge, I just got a PM from him also, didnt read it and put it on ignore.

Gunner

Apparently, he's really becoming unhinged. He's PM'd just about everybody here. We're all still waiting for the cancelled check scan, the email and best of all, those mountain red snappers! lol!

The only snapper I've seen in the mountain's was standard factory equiptment built on a woman LOL.

Gunner

Well given his maladies, I doubt he's seen one of those in a coon's age. I bet his low hydraulic pressure caution light has been on for years!

10-4 on trying to shoot pool with a rope <GRIN>

Gunner

He's PM'ing me with relentless vigor, It's so freaking bizarre too. He says things that must be about somebody else or he makes things up and cannot tell the difference between reality and his insanity.

He writes to me reminding me of events that took place that I know nothing about. He claims wild things that he is going to post about me and make a fool of me and that he will kick my A$$ and come here to see me, and on and on.

The stories he tells me in the PM's are clearly about somebody else if they are even real. I really think he has me completely confused with somebody else. He's so full of threats and anger and violent behaviour. I sure hope we don't read about him going postal in some union hall.

how do you put someone on "ignore"?

If you click on his name to bring up his profile, once in you get the option to "Ignore this user"...

The main advantage of the Ignore function is that it stops them sending you PM's, but at the same allows you to peek at their posts for the novelty factor!

Pete, that is awesome. Wherever this guys posts were, there is now an empty space. Plus, he cannot PM me with his profane language again. Thanks again. Perhaps more folks should follow your counsel in this area...

What a thread this has been.............OMG!!

JJ Hackie, why don't you move over to the "Weatherby Actions" thread, you just might find that interesting mr ph with out a pot!

Morning Tonk, I think you missed my earlier question and I see you are online at the moment. Would you care to answer the above question please sir?

Respectfully

Pieter

And we're still waiting on che cancelled check and emails to same along with those "Mountain Red Snappers. I'm not holding my breath.

ON a side bar, this issue with asses seems to be a recurring theme:













I think we might have ourselves a socio-homo-path...


jorge

Expert with a rifle in the military is simple to accomplish. Even my Dad did that and he was not a good shot with a rifle. That with a half worn out M1 Carbine to boot. Doesn't say much at all about prowess with a rifle IMHO.

BTW for the rest, y'all ain't the only ones getting PMs....

I should not feed, but for some reason this one has a lot of humor in the thread.

If he is sending people PM's then he must still be online so I trust you are reading this Tonk. Because I have not received an answer I have to make deductions and tell you how it worked in those days.

A few things before we start and I hope Rick will induldge me some liberty: I used to hunt for Peter Harris for about 6 years before going on my own and thats where I met JJ. The PH mentioned whom he hunted with is where we did most of our hunting in those days. There were several portions of that property that could be hunted, including the surrounding area. Get a beer as this may take a while.

If Tonk was shooting fish in a barrel he must have been some place else as it just did not happen over there. Most of the top section was overgrown with raisen bush at about shoulder height limiting shots to about 20 yards unless an animal was standing in the road or was hunted from one of the many blinds. Then the portion of Springfield Top, or Bottom. Top section extremely dense, bottom section more open with reeds that yielded good hogs. What I am saying here is that hunting was very difficult on those properties.

Some interesting statements by Tonk (and I am not going to quote them all) are that:
1. he hunted/shot 33 animals + 2. An average SA hunt is 10 days making it an average of 3,5 animals per day. Traveling time to the hunting area, hunting and returning for brunch, resting up and leaving for the hunting area again. Add to that loading time, Kodak time and skinning shed time I find it hard to believe that one can average 3,5 animals per day, including the 3 days/nights spent leopard hunting (in that specific region).

2. however, the hunting packages that were marketed then was 4 days up North with 4 hours traveling time there on day 1, 3 full days hunting, then half a day hunting with 4 hours traveling time back to Pretoria. Spend the night in Pretoria, travel 4 hours to the Free State, hunt half a day and then two full days heading back to Pretoria on the morning of the fourth day. The rest of the time was spent in Pretoria looking at the sights. Add all of this and there was only 7 full days hunting. The math changes a bit from this point onward: 4,7 animals per day�oh, and I forgot about the 3 days/nights leopard hunting.

3. Peter Harris may be many things but I have never found him to be a fool (he has a PhD) so no-one will go leopard hunting without a CITES tag. He has too much to loose and it was probably just to get someone out of camp to have him sit in a leopard blind where he has to shut up.

4. He says 58 animals were hunted in total with a value of about $ 80 000. That averages to about $ 2 424 per animal and seeing nobody said anything about the Big 5 I would have loved to have been the outfitter for that hunt! As a comparison, impala were $350 in those days, gemsbok were $950 and kudu about $1 650. There were no huntable nyala in the whole of that vicinity that went for sub $ 2 000 anyway. Now, if I was selling a $350 impala for $ 2 424 I would still be smiling.

5. In those early days email was most unreliable way out on those properties so I find it amusing that Saeed would boast on his website every night about how many animals were hunted per day. If Saeed had wireless then I find that hilarious as there was no cell phone reception at that property in those days. My wife dreaded me going there because of the non-availability of communication.

6. On page 12 he says that "shooting animals was fun" (or words to that effect). May I never hunt with Tonk, or any other person who believes shooting animals is fun. We have fun around the fire at night. Killing has never been fun to me. I enjoy hunting, I enjoy outsmarting animals, I enjoy witnessing a magnificent shot but I never have fun killing anything.

7. I briefly met Saeed once when Harris asked me to do a Pretoria and surrounding area tour with him and his friends. It is but the second time that I have met anyone with so much respect for others (first time was a Supreme Court Judge from Ohklahoma) no matter who they were. I doubt severely Saeed will remember me at all but I learned a whole lot from the man in a couple days.

8. Next about JJ. I have known him for some time now and have come to realise that if he says good morning, I do not have to make sure if the sun is up. Not once, but every time he says: morning.

Tonk you have smeared these peoples names with ugly, dirty mud. That sir is unacceptable. What is even more unacceptable and completely out of line is for you to drag JJ�s personal life into a fight where he has always taken you on directly. So if you cannot win a decent debate you resort to personal attacks? I cannot say for sure if that has anythying to do with your mental (in)capacity or (in)stability, buy it sure says a whole lot about your character. A character I want nothing of.

Your offensive language is really bad, even for someone from Africa and all those who have been here will know what I�m talking about. We treat our staff with respect and get more out of them that way than with money.

On the Weatherby thread you say you know of no-one who uses their real name. I do.

You said to read the Bible to make sure about history. I am a practiscing Christian and never quote from the Bible, but thank you Tonk, I read the Good Book and it was refreshing. I found two parts that I hope will do me good for now, and in future:
a. Galatians 6:3 reads as follows (from the only English translation I have as I think you will not understand much Afrikaans): If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
b. 1 Timothy 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.

Please publish your full name so I can know who I never want to share my campfire with.

Pieter: The waste of skin's name is Mike Boyd and thanks for exposing (yet again) his inumerable lies. jorge

jorge, I received 3 PM's from him. I am happy to report there was no profane language involved. Seems like he says something, thinks about it for a few minutes and then says it all again. I am applying the ignore button as he is now claiming "it was 11 years ago" and I have to "go and peddle a hunt with JJ"

Good night Tonk.

I leave for the beach for a week, and all hell breaks loose. Were you people waiting until I wasn't looking?

Nah, you just need to check the phase of the moon before you go. Apparently, we've uncovered "Larry Talbot redux"

Welcome back hatari. What does the count down meter say, how many days yet?

Pieter,
That was a well thought out and articulated post. All the facts were included. Sadly, it will only serve to confuse the poor guy.

Thanks Sprint11. I have had enough and put him on ignore. This is the last time I'm responding to this thread as it has gone on way too long and there are better things in life to talk about.

I wish Tonk only the best in life but I'm moving on and hope not to have to debate with him (or anyone else) in this manner again.

I'm sorry boys, but the kook highjinks continue over on the big bore forum:

I have been guilty at times, but TONK {NEVER} needs to pass an opportunity to pour up a big frosty glass of STFU.

Gunner

Those who use bipods, can these double as walking sticks?

I'm clueless. Why would someone like Saeed offer a free hunt to a total jerk like Tonk?

As for shooting sticks, I use whatever the PH provides. I like bipods because I can adjust the "elevation" by stepping a little forward or backward. My body is the third leg. I can't do this with a tripod. While you can extend one of the the legs out to the left or something, accomplishing the same thing, that changes the "windage" as well and is not as fast. I don't like monopods because I can shoot just as well offhand as with a monopod.

Incidentally, I have considerable shooting experience at Camp Perry though not as much as rost495. Rost495 is right to question Tonk's ability to hit a 12" by 12" target every shot at 200 yards and to comment that placing expert on the military course is duck soup for a good target shooter.

Wow, I just went through 16 pages of posts to learn more about shooting sticks, think about 5 posts were relevant to the OP.

Does this site have a moderator that manages this stuff? Keeps people from hijacking threads?

I didn't read all the posts and have no opinion on them, just want to click on something about shooting sticks and find that is the content.

Only the first page was about shooting sticks then the wheels came off! I never found out how Mike Boyd managed to get a free safari out of Saeed. (?)

Back on topic, if I know I will be using a tripod in Africa, should I practice with a tripod? Is there much to "practice" with a tripod? Perhaps practice with a bipod and the skills will carry over to the tripod?

postoak,

I would practice with whatever you're going to use in Africa. On my first trip to Africa, the PH used a tripod. I had not practiced. I am a reasonably good offhand shot and have spent a gazillion hours shooting offhand at targets and dry firing. I found that the tripod required me to stand a little more facing the target, as opposed to sideways. Initially, I had a tendency to shoot a little to the left as opposed to how I shoot offhand. Stuff like this is why you should practice.

Thanks Indy, will do!

That was some read!

Yessir, quite handily as a matter of fact, you can also use 'em to brush spider webs and briars off to the side too.

Gunner