Happened today.

Did the main stream media cover it or do I have to go to the tinfoil hat sites?

Had he taken gatling guns, he may have been president right after Ulysses.

And Lassie's Mom turned 95 today.

There were a lot of ifs....if he’d done a lot of things differently the outcome would have been different. 😉

And, had he “not” been such an egomaniac, the 7th may not have been wiped-out! memtb

I always rember the date! as I was married my 1st time on this date in 1988, temp was 109, if it could go wrong it did that Day!

Philbrick’s “Last Stand” (discussed here) is an excellent read on it and Ole Shrapnel was one to listen to about it.

He and others had some interesting exchanges on it.

That bitch!

If there are no bronze statues does that mean it never happened?

I met June once. About the nicest lady you'd ever hope to meet.

I was just up at Little Big Horn - It's a field in the middle of a prairie and CLOSED for COVID. We went out of our way driving my daughter and her husband to Minnesota and took a side trip there - very disappointed!

What's the date today? All of a sudden today has been removed from every calendar I can find.

Coincidence?

As nice as Barbara Billingsley?

its on record. Kicking Bear wrote it down.

I am sure she is.

My comment was directed at the female collie.

Closing fields for c19. Better check Rushmore for masks unless they have been tipped over already. Hows crazy horse doing?

We couldn't get that lucky, all ways thought ch would be a great place for a accidental B1b weapons release.one can see all you need to see of it as you drive by.

Did the same thing almost two weeks ago.

Could not believe it!

National park service is nothing more than an arm of the UN.

who told u that

Its up on a long ridge of ground that overlooks the Interstate, where the Lakotas, Cheyennes and Arapahoes were camped, its Crow Country now, as it was back then, them 10,000 enemy tribesmen were far more threat to the Crows than the White men (discounting microbes of course).

I'm sorry someone wasn't there who knew, seems like there should be a lot that can be accessed from the Interstate, down along the river where a lot of the fighting took place.

Was reading some interesting stuff on the Battle of the Washita last night. Hopefully tonight will be the Fettermann fight.

I think Custer would have been President also, if he hadn’t made the decisions he did that day.

I doubt it. a Lieutenant Colonel forcing a bunch of Indians back onto the reservation, killing some in the process, just doesn't rise to the stature of winning major Civil War battles. After all the Battle of the Washita didn't get him any elective office.

Upon hearing the news Grant reportedly said, Well, That takes care of that.

She was in the movie Sergeant York with Gary Cooper, she played Cooper's sister. She was a cute little thing back then.

Not something I would be proud of.....

Yeah?

I got married 15 years ago today.

I just picked up a copy of "Wild West" magazine today, and learned about an Italian Count and former Italian revolutionary assassin Carlo Camillo (AKA "Charles") De Rudio, an actual escapee from Devil's Island, former Private in the 79th New York Volunteer Highlanders at Petersburg, promoted later in 1864 to 2nd Lieutenant in command of Colored Infantry.

Disdained by his peers, liked and respected by his men. Custer's disdain probably saved his life, at the Little Big Horn, denied a command commensurate with his rank and experience, he was a 43 year old Lieutenant under Marcus Reno that day.

One of the last men to retreat when Reno suddenly folded and retreated, De Rudio and a Private hid in the woods along the river until Benteen's arrival the next day scattered the Indians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_DeRudio#American_Civil_War

The place itself is surreal

Birdy! I liked this comment about him from Wikipedia article

"He was not a chronic drinker or gambler. He did not absent himself from his duty station for trivial reasons. He did not shirk duty assignments and, above all else, he patently knew what he was doing at the head of the column of enlisted men."

Well it’s quite evident why he didn’t fit in with his other messmates in the officer’s corps.

He was competent!

Greasy Grass

It really is. Walking that battle field is amazing.

I've been numerous times, the last time with shrapnel.

I can't imagine I will not go again if/when I am in that country. I can't seem to be within 250 miles and not find a way to get there.

Hauntingly powerful ...

Happy Anniversary Mr. and Mrs. Conrad!

8531 by .com/photos/61286670@N08/]Sharps Man, on [bleep]

When they think of it, Antifa will destroy the place.

We've been there a couple times and you can feel the history. Even my wife who doesn't really give a hoot about history commented on the feeling the battlefield exudes.

The first time we were there, on June 25th about 10 years ago, there was a guy we met on the trails that had been coming every year for 30 plus years, giving some impromptu info about the battle to several of us on the trail. The guy was an absolutely engaging speaker and our kids still talk about him and his stories about the battle. He was very well versed in all players involved and how the battle unfolded.

This fellow had ridden horseback from the Crows Nest to the battlefield and remarked how tired he and his horse were by the time they hit the river. You can imagine Custer and his soldiers were probably worse for the wear.

Course not. Those civil war battles were fought for freedom of the righteous and wrongly held African nobility with nothing to steal. Those prairie battles were against pure savages unfit for slavery. But with plenty of resources for the humanitarian federal government to kill them for. Strange behavior for such a benevolent and righteous government and military just exiting a purely moral war.

When that happens, it will be time for it to become a battlefield again!

In the Wild West article, it states that DeRudio had quietly done well in Kansas where Custer had notably failed, and his men in appreciation had presented him with an ornate saber, him carrying this saber to the Little Big Horn perhaps because Custer had ordered them left at base.

Anyhow, his own testimony, from the article of how he got left behind.

"I stopped at the creek, trying to keep the men steady, as the last man passed me, I noticed the guidon of the company on the bank of the creek., and I told him to go get it before he went out. Then man said it was too hot for him and continued on his way. I thought it was not very hot, and I went and got the guidon myself....

There were about 20 or 30 Indians coming, not more than 40 to 50 yards from me, scattering as they saw the head of my horse over the bank. They fired a volley at me. The bullets came whistling about me, and I dropped down."

Further in the article.....

In retrospect De Rudio said the Major [Reno] should have remained sheltered withing the timber, as the Indians would not have come into the cottonwoods to fight dismounted troopers, and the delaying action might have prevented 1,000 warriors from riding off to attack Custer's five companies.

I had never come across that perspective before, or indeed, any mention of De Rudio. Heck, an Italian Count who had actually escaped Devil's Island being present and in combat at the Little Big Horn oughta at least have merited a passing mention.

Too bad Shrapnel isn't here to post about it.

He sure knew things.

Some of my family were there that day, on the winning (for the moment) side.
It is a very humbling and haunting place. If you stand there quietly in the breeze you can hear it all happen again.

Osky

Shrapnel ain’t gone.

You realize that’s reservation land?

Spill it, Ricky!

I happened to stop their 4 yrs ago on the 140th anniversary. Talk about an experience, I toured everything, drove to where Reno was and the pits they dug 140yrs ago are still their. Everywhere on the battlefield is marked with a white tombstone. I still remember one it was fairly close to where Reno and his men where at. Anyhow there was a headstone all by itself, coming up from the river. Really makes one think and the what was the last thing that trooper thought of before he met his maker. Anyhow one of the many pictures I took at the battlefield. The headstone with the black circle is where Custer fell.

It’s a very eerie place that’s for sure

I have been there numerous times and the first thought that comes to mind is - WTF was Custer thinking when he attacked that many indians? In looking over the battlefield it appears obvious that he was in over his head from the very begining.

drover

Well, for one thing, he just texted me from the battlefield.

Said hello.

Last time I was there, they had Custer's jock strap on display. Are you chitting me, Custer's fu cking jock strap behind glass.

With the clankers he displayed repeatedly throughout his career I suspect it was a big jock...

Custer apologists like to heap blame on
Benteen.

but looking at the message he received
and his distance from the village
and the distance of the pack train,
How quick could have Benteen realistically
arrived with the packs?

Benteen wrote;
"This note was brought back to me by Trumpeter
Martin of my Co. (which fact saved his life.) When I
received it I was five or six miles from the village,
perhaps more, and the packs at least that distance
in my rear."

What was the probability there’d be 10,000 Plains Indians in one camp?

The big 1840 treaty gathering down at Bent’s Fort had that many, can’t think of another. Custer shoulda listened to his scouts.

When you can't use public land without permission..... it's not public land. It's government land.......

I’m sorry


Happy Trails


Bob

I'll bet he learned things from McClellan and Ulysses.

They don't run it anymore, the Crow indians took ir over several years ago.

I was there last year and park service was abundant.

4yrs ago park service was there..

Benteen was not a coward. He was in fact, a war hero from the War Between the States. He did very well at the Battle of Mine Creek, the second largest Cavalry action in the war. Of course, the largest Cavalry action of the war was Brandy Station and Custer was at that one.

I might stand corrected but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Crow took over management of the place. Maybe that was under direction of the Park Service.
When I was there in '17 the guy at the gate taking the money was Native and wearing a NP shirt. Later I saw a Native lady leading a tour and she was wearing a uniform also.

There were two Indian brothers, Gerard and Paige Baker that were superintendents at various times at Custer battlefield, MT Rushmore, Badlands, Knife River, and Theodore Roosevelt NP. They wore their hair in traditional braids. Paige has retired, Gerard might still be at Mt Rushmore.

these are parts of Benteens letter to his wife
written in camp of 7th Cavalry and sent via
Fort Ellis.

Dated July 4th 1876.


" My Darling,

I will commence this letter by sending a copy of the
last lines Cooke ever wrote, which was an order to
me to this effect.

Benteen. Come on. Big village. Be quick, bring packs.
W. W. Cooke.
(P. S. Bring pac-s)


"This note was brought back to me by Trumpeter
Martin of my Co. (which fact saved his life.) When
I received it I was five or six miles from the village,
perhaps more, and the packs at least that distance
in my rear. I did not go back for the packs but kept
on a stiff trot for the village."
.......

"I kept up my trot and when I reached a point very
near the ford which was crossed by Reno's Battn.
I got my first sight of the Valley and river -- and
Reno's command in full flight for the bluffs to the
side I was then on. Of course I joined them at once.
The ground where Reno charged on was a plain 5 or
6 miles or 10 miles long and about one mile or
more wide; Custer sent him in there and promised
to support him after Reno started in, Custer with
his five Co's instead of crossing the ford went to the
right around some high bluffs -- with the intention --
as is supposed -- of striking the rear of the village;
from the bluff on which he got he had his first
glimpse of the whole of it, and I can tell you 'twas
an immense one. From that point Cooke sent the
note to me by Martin."
......

"I must now tell you what we did -- When I found
Reno's command. We halted for the packs to come
up -- and then moved along the line of bluffs
towards the direction Custer was supposed to
have gone in. Weir's Company was sent out to
communicate with Custer, but it was driven back.
We then showed our full force on the hills with
Guidons flying, that Custer might see us, but we
could see nothing of him, couldn't hear much firing,
but could see immense body of Indians coming to
attack us from both sides of the river."
........

"Had Custer carried out the orders he got from
Genl. Terry, the commands would have formed
a junction exactly at the village, and have captured
the whole outfit of tepees, etc. and probably any
quantity of squaws, pappooses, etc. but Custer
disobeyed orders from the fact of not wanting any
other command -- or body to have a finger in the
pie-and thereby lost his life. (3000 warriors were there)."
.......

"The latest and probably correct account of the battle
is that none of Custer's command got into the village
at all. We may not be back before winter, think so very strongly."

Well -- Wifey, Darling, I think this will do for a letter,
so with oceans of love to you and Fred and kisses
innumerable, I am devotedly,

Your husband

FRED BENTEEN.


Benteen didnt seem to care much for the loss
of George Custer, but in his letter to his wife he
did show grief for the deaths of Boston Custer,
Mr. Reed(a nephew of G.Custer) and Kellogg,
the reporter.

Three Custer brothers died at LBH.

January 29, 1867, Benteen met Custer, Lt. Col.
of the regiment. He disliked Custer almost immediately, finding him "vain, arrogant and egotistical."

Custer had got wind of the letter Benteen wrote,
[dated December 22nd 1868, Camp Supply]
criticizing Custers actions at Washita,.. Benteen
acknowledged writing such...and it was published
in newspapers in St Louis and New York, much
infuriating Custer and triggering him to threaten
to horsewhip Benteen. (according to General Godfrey)

Benteen had reinforced dislike for Custer
after Washita/ re; his act of abandoning his men.
So I wonder what he was thinking when he found
Reno in a dire jam, and again Custer
was not there to provide back-up as planned?

Accounts by fellow soldiers indicate Benteen displayed
great bravery and leadership when assisting Reno
against the great swarm of indian,..saying they owed
their lives to his efforts.

tell 'im to keep his head down

then how many times since

Shrapnel loves Custer. Custer was not a good officer though and was despised by many. IIRC, Reno was acquitted of ANY wrongdoing by a Courts-Martial that he himself called for in order to clear his name. I don't know much about Reno and don't care for Benteen since he whipped our side at Westport and Mine Creek, but he was an efficient and brave officer. Custer was afraid the officers under him would get some of the glory and that's why they lived.

Quote from a NPS Ranger at the LBH Battlefield.
I’ve read a good many books about this, and find that the more I read, the more the truth of this statement stands true.
I wish I could get out there again. There’s something about that place. Much like Gettysburg or Antietam or Fredericksburg, if you know how to listen, the very ground tells the story. It’s almost eerie, but it’s true.
It’s a fascinating subject. Custer is one of those people in history who you tend to have a low opinion of, but the more you learn about him, the more you respect him.
7mm

As far as the Battlefield itself goes and the Archeological part of it is concerned, it’s ashamed that it hasn’t been thoroughly searched using LiDaR technology and it wouldn’t take long to do that.

There’s a treasure trove of historical articles of war and of personal items laying out there yet to be recovered.

Same thing when I was there in July of 2019, some White people in NP uniforms too.

Crow haven't taken over as far as I know. No doubt the NP makes every effort to hire natives as much as possible. The battlefield has been closed for weeks if not months. Not a day goes by that I don't see a tourist pulled off and stopped at the road black or pulled of a little further east pulles off where you can see Last Stand Hill and a lot of the white markers from the road. Dang sad they have it closed.

I don't really respect Custer but I do respect some of his accomplishments. He was last in his class but he did graduate. He was hell on his men and subordinate officers. He got things done, but he took shortcuts and was self-aggrandizing.

I said before in a post about Custer, that while there were many things about him that I admire, his faults were legion.
His personal bravery, and his record as a cavalry officer can’t be denied, but then neither can his pettiness and blatant self promotion.
As far as The Reno Court of Inquiry, it’s pretty obvious that most of the officers and men called to witness had been coached on their testimony. The Army had already reached their verdict in the fall of 1876! Any censure of Reno or Benteen would’ve made Sheridan and many other high ranking individuals look bad. Better to let the blame rest on a guy who can’t defend himself.
Reno’s drinking and personal weakness caught up with him. He was put out on “conduct unbecoming” and ended up in a paupers grave in Washington DC. In 1967, Army At the request of his family, re-examined the case, restored his rank, and moved his remains to the LBH Cemetery.
Benteen did wonderfully on Reno Hill, but his conduct towards his commanding officer and his delay after he received the “come quick” order deserves censure as well.
“Bos” Custer had time to ride past Benteen to the pack train and return to Last Stand Hill with a fresh mount in time to die with his brothers. This fact and a few others point to Benteen’s wasting time in following his orders.
Benteen blamed Custer for the loss of Lt Joel Elliot at Washita. Right or wrong, this constantly influenced his actions and feelings towards Custer. He carried His hatred of Custer to the grave.
7mm

"Benteen blamed Custer for the loss of Lt Joel Elliot at Washita“

Just finished The Life of George Bent, by Hyde. Bent was married to Black Kettle’s niece. He was wounded in the hip at Sand Creek. ( They lived in Black Kettle’s lodge). And he had just left Black Kettle with his wife to visit family right before the Washita fight.

He stated that he knew both Elliot and Hamilton ( two officers killed at the Washita) very well. He went on to say that they had both visited him and they smoked many times at the Medicine Lodge treaty. Bent was an interpreter at the treaty.

Byw June 27, 1874. Today is Anniversary of second Battle of Adobe Walls.

Custer's saber is in a museum there.

JIt's engraved "Draw me not without cause. Sheath me not without honor."

I just finished reading an original edition of "Following the Guidon," by Libby Custer.

OK, she's a litle biassed but you can't help realizing what ruthless savages the Indians were, killing and torturing women and children alike, and that Custer was a pretty competent commander overall. The book contains the lyrics and music of many songs and bugle calls, including Gerry Owen. It's amazing how hard life on the plains was then, even for the commander's wife.

"killing and torturing women and children alike,"

Always interested in this faction. According to Bent, he stated that both factions of the Cheyennes were not into torture as were the other tribes. He stated that of all the years he lived with them he only one time witnessed the women and children come out to torture/ desecrate a body. And that was of a Shoshone they had captured and killed.

He went on to state that usually the women and children (up to a certain age) were kept as captive. Grown male captives were just killed outright, there on the spot. He stated that they felt that torture was beneath them. I’m sure this is open to much debate.

One example he used were of the 4 white girls captured up on the Solomon river. The Germain girls. Two youngest were simply dropped in the grass when a patrol of cav came upon the party. The other two older girls were repatriated a year later. I believe this was in 1874-75.

He did also explain just how many captives they had amongst their different bands and how intermarried they were. Mexicans, a few whites, but also Pawnee, Poncas, and a whole lot of intermarriage of allies. Especially Assorted Sioux, Arapahoe, and Kiowa.

All interesting first hand accounts.

He was an exceptionally well educated fellow. As were his brother and sisters. He had attended schools in St. Louis as well as the academy there for 10 years. It was a very informative read.

I rememver he mentioned after the Julesburg Colo raid, one of the young warriors said they should now torch all the buildings.This was after they had looted and ransacked all the goods. One of the elders that was present stated absolutely NO! The proprietors of the stage lines and trading company would come in and resupply the place and then they could come again back next year and do the same thing all over ! Bent said for many weeks after that raid and also the Platte Bridge raid, Indians would come up to him and ask him what things were that they had looted, he would answer something like, " thats a can of peaches" . LOL!

Good stuff

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiseman_massacre
Just one example of some Indian torture of children.

Good example ruffcutt

Same went on here with Comanche and Kiowa.