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Under its 'one country, two systems' policy, Beijing insists Taiwan is part of its sovereign mandate. Which is why its so-called 'wolf warrior' diplomats have reacted with outrage at news this week that the US Health Secretary will visit the island to discuss its success in combating the COVID-19 pandemic.

Meanwhile, Chinese fighters and bombers have been engaged in a series of "combat readiness" exercises over the disputed South China Sea, with combat aircraft and naval vessels observed visiting illegal island fortresses in the Spratly Islands.

Tension reaching boiling point
The Type 05 amphibious armoured vehicles are designed to deliver troops from the sea across a beachhead battlefield.

"The PLA are also deploying the powerful Type PCL191 multiple launch rocket systems to the ground forces of the Eastern Theatre Command," Kanwa Asian magazine defence editor Andrei Chang writes. These have a range of some 350km.

"The Taiwan Strait is just 180km across. The PCL191 rocket launchers are able to destroy all military bases and government buildings on the island accurately."

Meanwhile, Taiwan has responded by sending a company of about 200 marines to reinforce the Pratas Islands national marine park in the South China Sea – 445km from Taiwan and 300km from China.

China described a US rejection of its maritime claims in the South China Sea as completely unjustified and accused the US of attempting to sow discord between China and South East Asia. Photo / AP
China described a US rejection of its maritime claims in the South China Sea as completely unjustified and accused the US of attempting to sow discord between China and South East Asia. Photo / AP
"The marines left for the Pratas about a week ago and will remain there on a short-term rather than a long-term basis," a military source told the South China Morning Post.

US gets involved
The increase in Chinese military activity has also been met with a response by the United States. Its surveillance aircraft have stepped up the extent and frequency of their activity in and around Taiwan, closely monitoring Beijing's forces. Bomber movements are being observed. Submarines are being tracked. Activity on and around island fortresses are being watched.


A Chinese State University think-tank reports 67 US reconnaissance aircraft had been detected in the area in July. This was almost twice that seen in previous months.

"The risk of a military clash exists, and we should be alert to it," Beijing Institute of International Relations Professor Li Haidong said.


"There is a high possibility that the US will further escalate its conflict with China before the election, Professor Li said, noting that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's call for the 'free world' to unite against China implies that once the US launches military action against China, many countries will stand with it."

This week, Chinese state media has lauded a 10-hour flight by six of its Su-30MKK fighter jets from the mainland to Subi Reef in the Spratly Islands.

There they joined two Chinese navy warships, a Type 054A frigate and a Type 056 corvette. These were photographed anchored in Mischief Reef's protected lagoon.

The reef, unilaterally occupied by Beijing before being transformed into an artificial island fortress, is one of the largest features of the Spratly Islands judged by the UN to fall far outside Chinese territorial control.

Touted as an air-sea rescue facility, it features a military-grade 3km runway, armoured hangars, communications arrays, radars and weapons towers.

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte has all but surrendered his nation's claim to the traditional fishing grounds, saying last week: "China is claiming it, we are claiming it. China has the arms, we do not have it. So, it's simple as that. They are in possession of the property. So what can we do? We have to go to war. And I cannot afford it. Maybe some other president can. But I cannot."

Military analysts have noted that the 10-hour flight by the Chinese fighters to Subi Reef was unnecessary. At its cruising speed, the Su-30 needs only three hours to cover the distance as they can fly at speeds of up to 2100km/h, with a horizontal flying speed of 1400km/h.

"The math on a 10-hour trip doesn't make sense," China Aerospace Studies Institute director Brendan Mulvaney told Radio Free Asia.

"It's about 2100km from Changsha (south-central China) to the Spratlys, which should only take two to three hours at typical cruise speeds. At 10 hours round trip, that implies they're flying at 420km/h which is unlikely".

Its duration, however, may be intended as a signal that its pilots are training for the endurance necessary to strike more distant facilities, such as US bases in Guam, Singapore and Darwin.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)-controlled Global Times declared the exercise to be of "significant strategic value to the PLA's complete patrol coverage of the entire South China Sea".

Invasion fears
The latest moves are just the most recent examples of intensifying Chinese military activity around Taiwan.

"As China is eager to expand its communist ideology and authoritarian international order, Taiwan is on the frontline of defending freedom and democracy," Taiwan's Foreign Minister Joseph Wu said last week. "What China is doing now is continuing to ramp up preparedness to solve the Taiwan issue. The threat is on the rise."

The odds are against the island nation, with Chinese military performing "simulated invasions" and daily incursions by combat aircraft.


Taiwan has 140,000 troops. China has 1 million. Taipei has 350 fighters. Beijing has 1500.

But the battleground has now reformed between Beijing and Washington as US-China relations deteriorate.

Beijing declares any international engagement with Taiwan crosses a "red line". Washington insists it will act to preserve Taiwan's democratic values.

It's a scenario that could lead to "some kind of a military dust-up", Asia Society Centre on US-China Relations analyst Orville Schell told CNBC.

And Beijing's options are rapidly narrowing

"Everything else having failed, President Xi may therefore feel compelled to put a premium on a military strategy in the Taiwan Strait," said Michael Cole from the Global Taiwan Institute. "The two pillars of Beijing's strategy towards Taiwan – coercion and incentivisation – have failed to arrest ongoing trends in Taiwan supporting independence and a democratic form of governance."

And Xi may have painted himself into a corner.

He's been whipping up nationalist fervour in an attempt to distract his people from growing economic and civil challenges. He's proclaimed to his party colleagues that the "embarrassment" of Taiwan cannot be passed from "generation to generation".

Taiwan has become bolder in standing up to China after observing the CCP's behaviour in asserting control over Hong Kong.

"Taiwan may be small, but we know what we are fighting for is more than Taiwan," Wu said. "It's our values that are at stake."
1. China does not have the capability to invade Taiwan. Power projection is HARD, especially moving troops over waters that might not be in one's control.

2. China has the capability to destroy Taiwan merely by weight of conventional ballistic missiles. China has LOTS of short & med range ballistic missiles. Enough to swamp any missile defense on Taiwan, IIRC.

3. The closer to China one gets, the less tenable is a strike on their mainland. China has LOTS of air defense hardware.

4. Question with any commie block hardware is: How much of it works at crunch time? At Stalingrad, for every Russian tank that made it to the battlefield, one was lost along the way to mechanical breakdown.

5. An attack by USA on China would likely end in a debacle, but an attack by China on US & allies in the neighborhood likely would be a debacle for China, despite China's first move advantage.

6. China handed major world powers the knife with which to cut its throat by building the Three Gorges Dam. Take that out, and China ENDS as a major power for a few centuries.
It seems like China is flexing it muscles on the world stage...

Australia is just about fed up with their games...

India is exchanging face slapping on it border...

Japan has a military that is almost as big as China and is a US ally

New Zeeland is also an ally.

and anything the US gets into the Britts are always willing to jump in....

I really don't feel good about this. It seems like China is already at war with us now.... we just haven't started shooting yet.

you will know it's game on... when satellites in space start to disappear...
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.
War with China makes me think about retiring. (Air Force)
Originally Posted by jfruser
1. China does not have the capability to invade Taiwan. Power projection is HARD, especially moving troops over waters that might not be in one's control.

2. China has the capability to destroy Taiwan merely by weight of conventional ballistic missiles. China has LOTS of short & med range ballistic missiles. Enough to swamp any missile defense on Taiwan, IIRC.

3. The closer to China one gets, the less tenable is a strike on their mainland. China has LOTS of air defense hardware.

4. Question with any commie block hardware is: How much of it works at crunch time? At Stalingrad, for every Russian tank that made it to the battlefield, one was lost along the way to mechanical breakdown.

5. An attack by USA on China would likely end in a debacle, but an attack by China on US & allies in the neighborhood likely would be a debacle for China, despite China's first move advantage.

6. China handed major world powers the knife with which to cut its throat by building the Three Gorges Dam. Take that out, and China ENDS as a major power for a few centuries.


Agree on points 1 and 2

I'm not sure about point 3. Will have to defer to those that know their SAM capabilities better than I do.

Having lived in China for 2 years, I think point 4 is VERY interesting. So very much of their civilian infrastructure is just crap. But the Chinese also possess the capability of producing high quality goods. It's all a matter of "do they" when it comes to their military. Anecdotally, if it's made in China for their domestic market, it is going to be utter crap. An order of magnitude worse than what is being sold to foreign markets by foreign firms that have actual QC controls. But my Chinese designed/built Haval econo-crossover worked a treat for 1.5 years from purchase until we left. So I'd hate to count on utter failure of their war materiel.

Point 5 - yes. Economic MAD, where the "D" stands for deprivation. And in the case of the CCP, perhaps destruction.

Point 6 - yes, taking out the Three Gorges Dam would really put the hurt on China. But for nowhere near centuries. 10-20 years maybe? There's already a move away from hydropower to nuclear in China. At this point, I bet Xi curses Jiang for creating that particular boondoggle. But the Chinese are nothing if not resilient, and to paraphrase Mao and the cockroach general in the Freak brothers kitchen: "Who cares if we lose tens of millions, there are plenty more where they came from."
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.
Would bailing out Taiwan by making war on China be worth the cost for America?

I don't think America has any allies that would join in on a war with China.

Besides,..America doesn't have to go to Asia to make war on Communists these days.
I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I think the President’s cryptic statements the other day about him being “gone for awhile” and no other President is willing to do what he’s going to do to fix the problem. Things seem more clear...
Originally Posted by blairvt
War with China makes me think about retiring. (Air Force)


One never truly retires from the military. My grandfather was called up for WWII at the age of 53.
As long as the invaders wear Covid masks... there is nothing to fear.
...and the new IPhone 12s are not delayed for Black Friday sales.
All I know is, I would hate to be a PLA grunt taking that boat ride across that strait. Short ride, long swim. If you clear the wreckage to begin with.

All the same, that guy might have it better than folks on the island under that rain of missiles. If it goes, it’s gonna be real ugly for a lot of people. Hopefully only Asians.

Watch the Norks get froggy as soon as it kicks off, too. 100k shells an hour on Seoul would be a sight to see. From elsewhere, of course.
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.


Yessir.

If Trump wins the election it’ll go back to Taiwan calling China “That breakaway republic on the mainland “.

In the event of open warfare, 3 Gorges Dam will be China’s first casualty.

Pray that none of this ever becomes reality.

As Bristoe said, ‘we don’t have to go half way around to find communists to fight ‘.
That just what we need is a war right now.
Remember, the COLD WAR never ended with Communist China. It continues. This is Cold War sabre rattling,
Originally Posted by hatari
Remember, the COLD WAR never ended with Communist China. It continues. This is Cold War sabre rattling,


To affect the elections.
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by hatari
Remember, the COLD WAR never ended with Communist China. It continues. This is Cold War sabre rattling,


To affect the elections.



Absolutely!
This has been brewing since Mao. Every American, even politicians, should be required to read 2 seminal books on Chinese history and philosophy and how it shapes their thinking.

The Hundred Year Marathon by Michael Pillsbury
On China by H. Kissinger

Enlightening and frightening, a true "Clash of Civilizations" They embrace deceit and misdirection as an art form and have been shaping their image in the US and around the world since 1949. We have been helping them do this, thinking they would embrace our values and systems.

They truly believe themselves superior to all others. "The Middle Kingdom" is not an obsolete belief system.

Interesting times coming.


mike r
If China makes a military move to take Taiwan, what should the US response be? Should we go to war to protect Taiwan? Should we send 100,000 troops to Taiwan?
Originally Posted by hatari
Remember, the COLD WAR never ended with Communist China. It continues. This is Cold War sabre rattling,


Yep.

Somebody want a better trade deal.

Besides, it August,

We are getting toward the end of season for military exercises. It's time to bring out all the toys for one last play date before China has to put them away for the winter.
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.

Real men like you want a ground invasion of China and think it will be like an NFL game you watch from your couch
If we haven't already, we need to give Taiwan nukes.
Originally Posted by mikieb


you will know it's game on... when satellites in space start to disappear...

do you think China will take out my Dish Network satelite?


That would sure save me a lot of money each month.
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.

They'll give up all of East Asia to the East Asians??? IDIOTS!!
Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by hatari
Remember, the COLD WAR never ended with Communist China. It continues. This is Cold War sabre rattling,


To affect the elections.



Absolutely!



Yep, 11 wants the USA to go back to being bought pussies.
They are waiting to see who wins in November and getting ready. If it is Goofy Joe, they will invade something...probably the ROC or one of their territories.
I know that President Trump has been working hard to reign China in. Their theft of intellectual property, their human rights abuses, their expansionist doctrine, their importation of synthetic drugs and counterfeit money, their attempts to undermine worldwide currencies as well as many other destabilizing acts are not going to stop unless we have a President that isn’t on the Chinese payroll.

Committing ground troops to a land war in Asia is about the last thing in the world any country should do but that doesn’t mean that the world should sit idly by and allow China to overthrow legally installed, democratic governments like Hong Kong or Taiwan. Regional disputes don’t have to turn into a quest for world domination or the overthrow of all of China, they can be stopped and contained regionally....at least in theory.

I don’t think our President would allow China to invade Taiwan. Should conflict come I think it’ll be fought using next generation, asymmetrical warfare. I’m sure we have developed sophisticated weapons that few know exist just waiting for a worthy adversary to deploy against.

I certainly don’t relish the thought of war with China but I think it’s inevitable.
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
I know that President Trump has been working hard to reign China in. Their theft of intellectual property, their human rights abuses, their expansionist doctrine, their importation of synthetic drugs and counterfeit money, their attempts to undermine worldwide currencies as well as many other destabilizing acts are not going to stop unless we have a President that isn’t on the Chinese payroll.

Committing ground troops to a land war in Asia is about the last thing in the world any country should do but that doesn’t mean that the world should sit idly by and allow China to overthrow legally installed, democratic governments like Hong Kong or Taiwan. Regional disputes don’t have to turn into a quest for world domination or the overthrow of all of China, they can be stopped and contained regionally....at least in theory.

I don’t think our President would allow China to invade Taiwan. Should conflict come I think it’ll be fought using next generation, asymmetrical warfare. I’m sure we have developed sophisticated weapons that few know exist just waiting for a worthy adversary to deploy against.

I certainly don’t relish the thought of war with China but I think it’s inevitable.

Anything with China would be strictly a naval/air war (hopefully). They can't invade us and us invading them would be stupid. I'm sure Japan would join in since there's no love lost between the two. China both hates and fears the Japanese. Japan also has a Top 5 navy and air force.
I started a thread yesterday about China stealing patents from US companies on the CF and all it's gotten is a collective "yawn". Too many Americans think price is the first, second and third thing to think about when buying. There's no way an American made company can compete on price since they have to pay first world wages, not slave stipends.
Originally Posted by SPQR70AD
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.

Real men like you want a ground invasion of China and think it will be like an NFL game you watch from your couch


I didn’t read anything even remotely close to that in what he said.
I still think China attacked us with a Virus. If the truth ever comes out about that. Trump will have no choice.
Hasbeen
Originally Posted by hasbeen1945
I still think China attacked us with a Virus. If the truth ever comes out about that. Trump will have no choice.
Hasbeen


He has a choice and he’s exercising it with economics. The wallet is a prime target .
Doesn’t Taiwan have missiles that can destroy the 3 Gorges Dam?
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Nor do I feel good about it. I doubt Trump will tolerate an invasion of Taiwan.


They're waiting for President Biden and a traitorous Congress to assume office. The feckless fools will give up all of East Asia to them and kiss their asses.




You've been watching, too.
Originally Posted by ConradCA
Doesn’t Taiwan have missiles that can destroy the 3 Gorges Dam?

If they don't, they need to get some pronto.

Not big on getting involved in a war in asia. Best to serve as a deterrent and have the locals do the heavy lifting.
I hope that Trump and Pompeo are reading this thread.
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