A bunch of stories posted here over the years where the lost people throw away their rifle and start stripping off their clothes, even boots, and are found practically naked. WTF??? Any definitive reason why they do things that stack the deck against their survival???

Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.

Deep Survival by Lawrence Gonzales is a great read on the subject. He covers many scenarios about the mental & physical decisions different personality traits make in stressful & in many times life & death situations.

Hypothermia and the brain doesn’t jive correctly. People have been found without their boots, barefooted and have walked 9 miles over some nasty terrain. Think zombie like situation.

😎

You might be interested in the books and movies based on the research by David Paulides, referred to as "Missing 411". Lots of mysterious disappearances of kids and adults and the odd circumstances surrounding the cases.

I lost my keyes once. They weren't clothed.

I just sit in the Scottsdale with heater goin

But do you strip down and toss your rifle out into the weeds??

Many people, particularly urban and suburban people, seem to be unable to function without a smartphone with dozens of apps and an internet connection. My daughter is really back about using an app for directions, while having no idea where she is in relation to anything else. No spacial or situational awareness at all. Drives me nuts!

Look up Geraldine Largay, the 66 year old woman who got lost on the Appalachian Trail in Maine back in 2013 and whose body wasn't found until 2015. People like that prove that Darwin was right, the strong/smart survive and the weak/stupid don't, just as it should be.

Fear can do some strange things to some people. One cold day when I was in AIT, we were on maneuvers. One guy was walking in a dry ditch when he tripped and sat down on the bank right next to a copperhead. The snake was cold and couldn't move but he went into shock from fear. He just fell over on his back, his eyes rolled up inside his head and he lay there quivering. They had to haul him to the hospital and we didn't see him for a week. I wondered how he fared in Nam with livelier snakes.

A lot of people go out into the mountains or forests without any idea that something might go wrong or something adverse might happen to them. Therefore they don't take any survival gear with them, or if they have a couple of items in a day pack, they often have no clue as to how to use what little they have brought with them.

That old denial syndrome of "Ahhh, It can't happen to me," has killed more than a few out in the outdoors.

L.W.

If you worked hard as an adult to teach yourself to hunt, and did the same to learn how to roam far and wide yet remain safe in big/high country in the west, it can be difficult to understand how and why people get themselves into such bad circumstances, and even more difficult to understand why they do some strange things when lost.

I feel terrible for folks who become badly disoriented and lost and then suffer - even die - because they are not equipped/prepared to deal with what they got themselves into - and then went in deeper. It must be a horrible feeling to be in that condition. I also sometimes feel badly for the search and rescue people who are suddenly called out to try to help. These things have happened all too frequently during the many years we lived and roamed in that high country.

Thanks for the info on effects of hypothermia - I've never been really, really cold out there, let alone hypothermic - so it helps one understand why people do some strange things. Having never been lost or even in confusing or fearful conditions, I simply wish that people would study and learn how to behave wisely in such undertakings and what to do if they get themselves into trouble - it is logical and easy to learn and the prep is easy - just do it.

In the few instances where sudden weather or other unexpecteds caused me to have to change course or concentrate energy and effort to get out of some challenging situation, I certainly never would have tossed my firearm, or boots, or whatever. To do that, minds must be really scrambled at such a point.

Probably.

It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!

Frankly, I don't recall those stories here?

I've seen people lay down on frozen ground who would have died if people who were mentally stronger didn't pick them up and force them to keep moving and do what was necessary to stay alive.

His books and interviews are absolutely fascinating.

I have been somewhat confused about location a few times.
No threat, just things weren't how I perceived them.

Once, I was truly, no f'n idea where to go, lost.

I wasn't really far from a camp. But it was cold and getting dark.
I was as scared as anytime ever in the woods. Found my own tracks
in the snow, I had been circling the top of a big round knob. I had no idea
what direction to go, and not enough light to follow my tracks around again to
find where I came in.

It was a drive hunting situation, when I disappeared, they knew where I was.
Most of those guys had done the same thing there. (They put me 50 yards from
the top and told me to go straight. A setup knowing what they knew)
Anyway, they sent four wheelers looking for me. When I heard that engine, I dumped
my flashpowder and took off at a dead run.


No big deal. But close enough to learn a few lessons.

#1 Don't panic. Easy to say. But I kinda did.

Because. I missed one of the rules of being lost, one that really applied to me.

#2 Stay Put.

This one doesn't fit every single situation. But I applies to every one
until you at least KNOW what's up and which way to go.


In my case, I had no reason to be scared. I was within a half mile of
their camp. Moving had the potential to put me in much more remote
country. All I needed to do was sit down and wait. Someone was bound to
come looking or fire a shot.

#3
Don't think you have to find your way out.
That's where I went wrong.


It's really embarrassing to have gotten so screwed up in that situation.
I have hunted in remote areas. A long ways from anything.

But really it points to another important thought.
Some like to poke fun, and then talk about how they are prepared.

But that's where things go off the rails.
Experienced guys go "for a little walk", or I'm on a hunt that goes "nowhere really".
So many of the lost stories arent idiots.
They are people who weren't in desolate areas, just a couple hour hike.
Then things went to schidt!

I agree....

Bad things can happen to experienced people in the wilderness as well. Sometimes people make bad choices despite experience.

fog will fugg you up too. i was way up a mountain before daylight one time and the fog rolled in quick like i have never seen. i sat down and waited for daylight. well daylight did not help. visibility was about 30 feet. i couldn't tell if i was going up or down. i have a good sense of direction and started moving back towards the way i came figuring i would be going downhill. well somehow i was going uphill. place was full of gulleys and mountain brush. i knew there was a road at the top of the ridge but i also knew that if i went the wrong way it would be a hell of a long way to a road. finally i heard a cow mooing way off in the distance. i knew there was a couple farms down in the valley near where i had parked and just started walking towards old bessie. she kept it up long enough that i was able to drop down out of the fog. when i got back down to the bottom i looked up and the ridge looked like something out of one of those pictures of the himalayas. the whole mountain was socked in for as far as i could see. that was the only time i was "concerned" so to speak. i drive through that area frequently and the fog on that ridge is thicker than i have ever seen. something to do with it being the highest eastern-most ridge in that part of PA. feels like the moon in winter too.

Even a snowy day can screw you up. A dozen years ago my partner and I had moose tags in eastern ID. The area we were hunting was completely flat forest land. We parked on a road and intended to walk about 1/4 mile straight west to a small canyon where we'd been seeing moose sign. My partner led off with his son and me following. We'd gone maybe 300 yds when things just didn't feel right to me. I pulled out my compass and we were going straight EAST. I tapped the son on the shoulder and showed him the compass. We were smiling at each other when Dad walked out on the road about 100 yds from the pickup. He felt like an idiot but we had a good laugh. It wouldn't have been funny, though, if we hadn't hit the road and if we didn't have compasses.

Back in '09 on an elk hunt I broke my leg crossing a creek, snapped my bone completely but didn't break the skin, my foot could touch my knee and did, in denial I grabbed my foot and tried putting it back but it just fell over again. The hunter I was guiding was in front and didn't see it, he came back asking what I was doing laying on the bank with my leg in the water, I had left it in to keep the swelling down. I picked my leg up and he saw my foot dangling and freaked, I told him I was going to pass out and to stay calm, then I did... woke up and it was real.

Walter was panicked, it had been raining hard all day, we had been out all day hunting and an hour of light left in canyon, no way to make a fire easily, no phone service for miles. I told him to go and get my brother in camp for help knowing it would be after dark before they could get back.

I'm laying there with my leg in the creek, soaked from the day's rain and falling in the creek. My body would start shaking and I'd try to calm it by deep breathing, cold or shock or both I don't know. After about an hour the shaking wore down, I started feeling warm, the leg stopped hurting, all my normal pains from being 52 years old and working construction went away. Soon I felt better than I've felt since I could remember. I knew what was happening and thought of that guy who left his family in the car after days of stuck in snow, they found him dead, he had taken his coat off, I knew he thought he was warm and feeling good.

When I finally got to the hospital the leg was really bad but their first concern was my core temperature was extremely low, the leg could wait for the morning.

When I die I want to die of hypothermia, it truly was the best I felt physically, at least since being an adult.

Kent

you are an honest guy as opposed to people who never in their lives made a mistake. (yea right) always good to have a compass with you. anytime I go in the woods I got one. simple to use no batteries and totally reliable and spot on. I was in the appalachian mountains where if you climb a tree all you see is woods and hills. went off the trail me and another guy and I put a dead log across the road where we went in. walked about 3 miles then walked out. every time my friend would say no we gotta go this way I said no the compass says this way. our natural instinct to walk in a direction did not agree with the compass. we came out right where the log was on the trail I was suprised being I knew we would hit the trail by not come out by the log

Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!

A doctor from someplace in eastern MO took his boys and their dog hiking one Sunday afternoon a few years ago, on the Missouri Trail. It gains a bit of elevation over there in Iron County, and they were dressed for summer, shorts and tshirts. Long story short, I believe the doctor and one of the boys died, and the other boy barely survived by cuddling with the dog. They got up there, it rained, and cooled off, and they died of hypothermia in temps well above freezing. It doesn’t take a lot to find oneself in a bad spot, if ignorance or carelessness is along for the ride.

why did you call the sheriff?

SOP for lost folks. That and ambulance if needed. They didn’t need an ambulance they needed warming up and a quick reminder on their responsibilities in the mountains. Ergo trespassing, letting folks know where they were going, having a phone with them (which they did not) etc. simple stuff like that. They were more scared than anything else. No charges pressed, they got home safe. Happy ending.

I am a big proponent of those cheap silver emergency survival blankets. They fit easily into a pocket or backpack. They cost 3 bucks. They have no insulative value, but do trap some body heat, can protect you from wind, can protect you from rain, can trap rain water for drinking and make a great search object.

There's a point where medical attention is needed to warm them up. A blanket and a cup of hot coffee won't do it. When in doubt, an ambulance is very much in order. They know a lot more about where the breaking point is than I do.

Very true RC

Calling the sheriff seems like a logical step to take in order to get help for two people who needed help and were unwilling to accept the offer of help despite their obvious need for it. What would you have done if you had seen the condition that they were in and because of their compromised metal state were unable to help themselves?

Gonehuntin: I have personal knowledge of ONE Hunter who became lost/disoriented in a moderate snow fall. He indeed gave up his Rifle, daypack and was disrobing when some time later one of his Hunting party came across him and settled his mental state down after much effort!
I have NO certainty as to why people do strange/bizarre "things" when in shock/disoriented/confused but I have observed people in shock do bizarre things numerous times.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hypoxia inhibits brain functions. Hypothermia produces hypoxia, as does shock.

I’m in Scottsdale right now after dentist appt, having a Italian beet at Portillos. Left at 5 am this morning it was 39 deg at my house. Its 97 deg right now in Scottsdale so I’m ready to throw off my clothes/shoes but the pavement would burn my feet.

Pure panic... It happened to a neighbor of mine about 35+ years ago.. He and his party were hunting deer in northern WI.. As they were driving to a new area, they happened upon an elderly man literally running naked out of the woods! He had gotten lost, panicked and literally did what you described - dropped the rifle, tried to find his way outta this woods (about 7x15 miles in area) and got hot when running.. Got rid of the clothes and kept running.. When they got to him he was nearly literally foaming at the mouth in fear.. They got him in the truck, warmed him up and drove as fast as they could to the nearest hospital..

It does happen..

Why wouldn't you call the Sheriff.

Ok I’ll bite....

You call the sheriff because he or she can get additional resources to the scene faster than anyone else. Air evac, ambulance, search and rescue, etc... what if after an hour the two lost guys told the rescuer about their third buddy etc... what if the two lost college kids were escaped or wanted felons?....

Call the sheriff or the police when in doubt, good for the helpful party and good for the party in need.

Did I get a prize?

A boat that was following us across a rough sound in November, lost its engine and started to take on water. We pulled alongside and started to take people into our boat. All were wearing life jackets. It became very evident that the boat was sinking. One guy stood on the bow of the sinking boat, took off his life jacket and jumped into the water. We were all yelling at him to stop, but he wasn't hearing us at all. He was about 1/4 mile from shore and in 20 feet of really cold water. We finally got him in our boat and pulled the sunken boat to the nearest shore. Some of us got out and pulled the sunken boat into shallow water, while our boat took the wet guys to the marina. Never did get an explanation from the guy what he was thinking when he took off a good life jacket and jumped into freezing water...has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever witnessed.

I have no doubt! It was insane some of the SAR missions we had ( I volunteered for SAR from '86 to '96). I actually loved the summer missions as I got to roam the high country(usually in a t-shirt) with a buddy of mine in the middle of the night away from the mission base and all the posturing ego's! The outcomes were not always so pleasant. I was also one of the divers trained in recovery and water rescue in the county, it got a bit hectic some months!

Trying to recall accounts of this happening to Frontier folk or Indians back in the days. Can’t think of any tho they did sometimes starve or freeze to death, get hurt or die from thirst.

Dang Kent, in addition to all your other talents you’re one tough SOB 😎

so if they were unwilling to get help which I dont believe would the deputy then tase and handcuff them?

I’m recalling Daniel Boone said he had never been lost, but that he had been “a mite confused” a time or two. Might be that people in that time and place took episodes of being “a mite confused” as just an ordinary part of living.

Just go up on a high mountain in the wintertime, and go to sleep. There are worse ways to go.

Mother Nature can be a mean bitch, and is often unforgiving.

Just go away.

I've never been a LEO so I don't know what a deputy would do, but by calling the sheriff Kaywoodie elevated the problem to "the authorities" and whatever happened to the two young men, he had done his due diligence. Whenever I find unknown people trespassing on our property I report them to the sheriff and press charges unless they are neighbors who we are on good terms with..

In 2005 we were taken on horseback to a drop camp in the Flattops area northwest of Eagle, Colorado and at that same camp the year before one of the hunters got lost and did just as you describe. We were told his rifle was still there in the woods somewhere and that he was so sick when they did find him he had to be flown out by helicopter. I've often wondered if the people that have this happen ever spend any other time out except just for a big hunt somewhere. Staying calm and in control are our best friends, and being prepared.

When day traveling in the mountains and someone looks at your pack (usually filled with gear, firearms, ammo, etc.), asking if you are camping, tell them you aren't, but don't want a memorial shelter named after you.

As has been stated so well earlier with most hunters or hikers it is pure panic. But I volunteer with a SAR team and the vast majority of the missing people we look for are either suicides, or drug related. An awful lot of suicide's don't want to be found and can make it near impossible to find remains. Some go as far as digging a shallow grave and covering themselves up as much as possible. Another left behind clues that he had ran away with someone he met on the internet.

Others have hallucinations when high on drugs and believe they are being chased. Some drugs make them feel as if their clothes are on fire. And they feel no pain. They keep running though briars naked that no normal person would go through until their hearts just give out.

Apres ski, we would often soak in a hot tub,
and convince the girls to come roll in the snow !
Very Norwegian you know , Ya

The pins & needles feeling was just exhilarating, Ha to be young again.

Probably put me into cardiac arrest if I tried that now

It's easy to lose your bearings in the Appalachian mountains. I wandered pretty deep in them hunting one year. I was glad to get out.

I hunted them for several years afterwards, but I took a compass with me after the first year.

I always have at least 1 compass, or more. I also like having a gps .
I set a waypoint when I leave the truck and disconnect the power / charger cord.
Leave it running for the duration of my hike, bike, ramble.

When it is time to head back the gps will aid my dead reckoning guess which way back to the road, offset by x meters from the vehicle.
When I intersect with the road I know which way to turn and there is the truck, Waiting faithfully !
The gps bolsters my confidence in the compass dead reckoning.

My worst missteps have come when assuming I was maintaining SA, but really something had changed without notice. Atmospherics , fog, or even just overcast interfering with a mental dead reckoning of direction + distance.

Sounds like my moose hunting of years passed. I came up with the 3 definitions:

lost: you don't know where you are, but know how to get out of there.

Lost: As above, but need a little "creative navigation" to get lost, or not lost. This is the dangerous one - you have to know when to quit and get LOST. My rule waas two attempts if sufficient daylight was left.

LOST: SIT DOWN, BUILD A CAMPFIRE, AND A SHELTER IF NEEDED, AND WAIT FOR SAR.

Never been LOST, but within 5 minutes of it twice...once in northern Wis , and once here on the Kenai.

"Don't panic", they say. Ha! Easier said than done when the damned stuff starts snaking it's way up from the belly to the throat.

I got to where lost was a comfort zone, and Lost, nearly so.

I have had my gps go tits up on me twice. Not to mention the several times I forgot to punch in my initial waypoint.

Compasses rule! I carry two, sometimes three. Hell, you can always average them......

My favorite lost story was the fall I left Denver to return to Alaska. They leave (or used to in the past) a weekend between seasons in Co to get all the lost ones found. A news report announced SAR had found the remaining missing hunter on Sunday afternoon.. The helicopter picked him up about 200 yards from where they had found him the year before.

We joked that the next year he would just tell his wife "Have the chopper pick me up in the usual place".

One of the final stages of hypothermia is burning up. If you are on a search and rescue mission and you start finding clothes, things are grim.