in N america. He bet his million $ farm that he could take any N American game animal with a Hornet, under conditions of fair chase and furthermore bet (in today's money) 100k that he could do so with no more than 2 shots. He didn't say so, but it had to mean brain hits on the big stuff, at 100m or less. That can be hard to arrange on montain goat, mountain sheep, etc.

Anyone who would try that is a moron.

"Expert" thread #2, eh? How old are you, lonee? 12? Still drawing airplane pictures with red dashes for tracers?

You guys ever read abot that guide in Alaska shot a grizzly with a .17?

I wouldn’t make that bet. On the other hand, I wouldn’t bet against it either. Probably more deer have been killed with a .22 LR than anything else.

Maybe the Hornet was deadly...in the hands of Jim Carmichael. From my experience in NRA Sporting Rifle High Power competition, 7 out of 10 'sportsmen' have no business shooting at anything other than paper from real life field positions like offhand and to a lesser degree, sitting. That's not my opinion...that's fact from scoring targets. Now on the other hand, the black powder muzzle loader shooters are offhand shooters...it's what they do. The old silhouette guys same. If the Hornet can consistently reach the central nervous system...it's just as good as anything else. As a signature line says, 'gunnery, gunnery, all else is twaddle'.

that's right. People who can't stalk that close and hit that well dont belong in the hunting fields. Bow hunters get inside 40m for shots on big game all the time. So why cant you do so with a rifle, hmm? Cause you're a lazy, incompetent twit, that's why. Ditto if you can't reliably hit the 6" circle of the brain, from offhand, at 100m,

If Jim Carmichael said he could do that, I have no doubt he could.

I don't see a problem. I've killed about everything there is around here with a .22 LR, including my first deer when I was 12.

It’s no hammer of Thor, more like the wooden spoon of Lena, but no doubt it’s a killer in the right hands. I like my Hornet but I wouldn’t want to try it. Eskimos seem to be experts at under gunned killing. My Eskimo friend told me about all kinds of game killed with 22 rim fire and 223, including polar bear and grizz. He had a big gun, a 243 that I did some reloading for.

Well - - - maybe with a K Hornet.

Goats, sheep, and grizzlies can be killed with a bow, too, if you get close enough. If you're in bow range, you're in 22 Hornet range. You just need to wait for an ear hole shot.

.22 Hornet? Some guy who posted as Hardin lauded that round all the time.

Gunkid a/k/a/ Hardin a/k/a Jamboree a/k/a Swetn a/k/a Lawrenceof Reason a/k/a Brule a/k/a ...

Just for the record, Idaho's only caliber requirement for big game is that it has to be a centerfire. 22 Hornet is legal for moose and bear. That's not saying it's smart, just legal.

You would have to wait for the right shot. If you saw a record buck walking slowly at 200 yards, you should hold your fire, waiting for a stationary and probably smaller one at 50 yards.

A guy in Africa killed a bull elephant with a .222. He used special FMJ round-nosed bullets he had machined on a lathe.

Nobody mentioned that Carmichael was a champion-class bench rest shooter and probaby pretty good from field positions.

I've had the same experience with NRA High Power. I don't think the average deer hunter can hit a standing deer at 75 yards. Instead of practicing from field positions, all they want to do is shoot little groups off the bench. Oh! It shot into 2 inches instead of 1 inch! The average 24HCF member probably is much better.

I'd put money on him.

Oh it can be done, bow hunters get close or eat tag soup. Google Chuck Adams, he took the first Super Slam with a bow.

The .22 hornet doesn't do anything real well though. I've shot a very few coyotes with mine and run offs were not uncommon.

My only rimmed cartridge is a 30-30. Not interested in any more.

My experience with .22 CB shorts tells me not to bet against Mr. C’s assertion.

Hardin never "touted" the Hornet, So you're just a liar. What he said was that the Hornet sufficed, so the shorty 223, having 50% more energy and range than the Hornet, and 5x as fast a repeat hit, was adequate and guys were foolish to insist upon a 308 as a shtf gun. It's more important to have the option of the .22lr conversion unit, for practice, for handiness with a suppressor mounted and to have the 60 gr Aquila subsonic 22 ammo for removal of scouts, sentries, guard dogs, and for taking of small game.

Carmichael was shooting editor of OutDoor Life Magazine for 20 years. He held several records in both benchrest and NRA bullseye (position) rifle. He also took several record heads of game in N. America and Africa. He said what we need is general -ability MEN ,not general-ability rifle-calibers.

Have at it.

Back in my younger years when I harvested game as needed there were many a whitetail that went in the freezer with the aid of a 22 mag in the ear hole. Not saying it was right but when you're one paycheck away from living under the overpass you do what's necessary to survive. Carmicheal isn't saying it's right,simply saying it can be done.

Good choice, practical?

Hell no!

Capable of making the critter die?

Oh yeah.


Look into the guy who sorta accidently killed an elephant with a 22LR.

He questioned it afterwards, so...
He reproduced the shot.
And killed another.

Odd.............bowhunters shooting under 40m.

Damn near every bowhunter I know judges yardage...........in yards.

Questioning the prolific posters cut n paste.

Foreign Bot

speaks in metric

Noticed that too. Figured Canadian.

LOL

my dad won the Texas championship silhouette match in the 8os with an open sited colt python. last two deer he killed were both shoot offhand with his Weatherby 7mag.

Jim Carmichael, at his age, mat want to be more careful betting the ranch on a fair chase ram or goat with the Hornet. Mountains to climb is his first obstacle, then the fun really starts.

g

It's an easy feat to do all the killing with a 22 Hornet. It isn't an easy feat to get into a position to do that killing. I'd bet on Carmichael too.

Some of the best shooting I've ever done at game was offhand. Also, some of the worst shooting I've ever done at game was offhand.

You tell much better stories than Loonie, and your have the benefit of actually being true.

I haven't shot a deer any other way in so long I can't remember the last time I didn't. Course I practice offhand constantly and maintain the ability to hit a 2" target consistently at 50 yards.

scoped, with a good trigger pull, and "earvalve" plugs, that's pretty simple, but quite adequate shooting. for the woods.

And a wheelbarrow.....don't forget the wheelbarrow.

the old man a few years back, he's the guy carrying in church on sunday morning, 81 now.

Handcarts worked pretty well for the Mormons. One time RIP Ford returning half naked and in buckskin from a arduous trek across Texas came across an old guy, a 49er, pushing a hard art across the plains. Dunno if he survived.

I had a Mormon student did the handcart thing over the summer, skirts and bonnets and all. She said they pretended they were Amish

Ain’t no fun unless you get the cshit knocked out of you by a big fire breathing magnum.

Can't tell you how many arguements I've gotten into with bow hunters that chastise me about hunting whitetail with a 22-250 or a 243. Dumb fuqkers they are.

I've killed more deer with a 243 than anything else.

He wrote that in the 60's, in his book The Complete Book of the Rifle. H'es probably long dead. i bet I could do it, tho, altho probably not within season-regulations. They charge BIG money to hunt those critters legally. His point was, 99% of men can't shoot or stalk waf. Even more true today than it was when he wrote it.

it was Jim Carmichael that started the modern 6.5 long range mania. he necked down the 308 went to a 1000 yd match and almost won competing against fire belching magnums. Remington who was there commercialized the round as the 260 Rem. true to form they destroyed it in its infancy and allowed the 6.5 creed more (or less) to flourish. while the creed is 95% the same as the 260

22 hornet legal in GA. Kills em, lady I know shoots them out of her garden, then eats them.

+1

yep, and me, baiting moose, elk, bears to a tree blind, can brain them with a shorty AR in 223, too. Just gotta know to aim 1" high 20m. and 3" high at 10m, if using the carrying handle sights. and typical zero for the sight. I'd much rather have to brain a grizzly with a shorty AR than have to fight with ANY bolt action or shotgun.

if you use varmint or match bthp's in those calibers, you'll lose a lot of the wounded critters with chest hits. the match hp's don't expand and the varmint bullets fragment without much penetration. I once shot a feral dog in the throat, from the front, with Hornaday, SX 50 gr sps and a 222. It blew a 1" plus- wide hole, less than 2" deep. Anywhere else, other than the brain or maybe the neck, he'd have run off. If you hit the brain, anything works, If you use Nosler Partition sp's and hit the chest vitals, they'll go no further, often less far, than those hit in the same place with 30-30sp's, especially the 170 gr version, especially at 100m and a short barrel. The 3030's wont expand well, if at all, under those conditions. they'll only have 2100 fps to start with.

Blah, blah, blah, shut the fuqk up. I've killed literally hundreds of deer with a 22-250 @ a 243 with BTHP's and real light ballostic tips.

Wikipedia said so.........

This.

sure, with head shots, and lying about it.

And I've killed a bunch with chest shots and varmint bullets out of a .223 and a .22-250 and a bunch more with 170's out of a .30-30. Lonee don't know WTF he's talking about.

You're a stupid mf'er.