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Posted By: viking Florida.? - 02/03/21
What is it with Florida and FBI agent’s getting kilt. Two again, serving warrants.
Posted By: rem141r Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
ya i was wondering the same thing. if i got out of fbi school and they gave me orders to florida, i'd be like "SCHIIIT".
Posted By: DigitalDan Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Floriduh is plumb full of surprises.
Posted By: viking Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Then you have olflave that moved there.,just to hunt iguanas and play golf.
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Bad deal on those FBI agents. Sounds like the guy they were after saw them stacking up on his Ring and got something ready for them. I've been told it was an AR but can't confirm that right now.

Their SRT was serving a different warrant at a spot that was deemed higher risk. Broward SO wasn't involved but I bet in hindsight they wish that they were. Their entry guys are very, very, very good.

These type of warrants are served all the time but they always carry risk. I've helped with three in the past two months. Two of the three were for kiddie porn. They usually go smooth but when they don't, they don't. I much prefer to have a team handle all entries. Most field agents, detectives and beat cops simply do not have the time required to get good at it and they will often miss things that dedicated SWAT does not. Like Ring cameras...
Posted By: Mannlicher Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Problems arose when millions of South Americans and damn yankees move here
Posted By: DigitalDan Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Yeah.

Jamaica me crazy.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...
Posted By: Salmonella Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
My little brother, a retired Sheriff's deputy, liberal hating, golf loving patriot is relocating to Punta Gorda.
Has nothing but good to say about it.
Posted By: killerv Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...



That's what they did with Malachi York...just waited for him to go to the grocery store. You wanna talk about a sicko.
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...



Originally Posted by deflave
For those opining about using different tactics, the arrest warrant is usually issued along with a search warrant. The evidence gathered by the search warrant can often make or break the case.

Arresting people outside their home allows time for the destruction of evidence by friends and family. Also there may be no reduction of risk simply by grabbing the primary target. Other people in the house can carry just as much as risk to the officers.

And it should be noted that you can get smoked approaching a guy on a sidewalk just as easily as you can going into his house.

Hitting a house always carries risk but it is a "one and done" and is usually a better option when viewed from a big picture perspective.
Posted By: Sakoluvr Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Problems arose when millions of South Americans and damn yankees move here


When exactly did that happen?
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
I read that and the evidence in this case was all on the internet, that is how they got him in the first place. Same for Koresh... We had a guy here on base picked up for the same thing and NCIS WAITED until he got here to the office then nabbed him.
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I read that and the evidence in this case was all on the internet, that is how they got him in the first place. Same for Koresh... We had a guy here on base picked up for the same thing and NCIS WAITED until he got here to the office then nabbed him.


You have no clue WTF you're talking about and this case has zero parallels to the Branch Davidians.

The tracking of internet activity in cases like this provide probable cause for the warrants. You're still a LONG way from satisfying the AUSA as far as achieving a conviction for the most heinous of crimes.


Posted By: slumlord Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
2 MORE?

good grief
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I read that and the evidence in this case was all on the internet, that is how they got him in the first place. Same for Koresh... We had a guy here on base picked up for the same thing and NCIS WAITED until he got here to the office then nabbed him.


You have no clue WTF you're talking about and this case has zero parallels to the Branch Davidians.

The tracking of internet activity in cases like this provide probable cause for the warrants. You're still a LONG way from satisfying the AUSA as far as achieving a conviction for the most heinous of crimes.



Just because I don't always drink from the "Flave Orifice at Delphi" doesn't mean I'm clueless. The gent I mentioned was arrested HERE, THEN they served a warrant at his house. Of course there is a parallel as there is with many arrest scenarios. In fact, during the post mortem on the Koresh fiasco, there was a lot of criticism leveled at the agents for NOT having picked Koresh up out in town when they had multiple opportunities.
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/03/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI

Just because I don't always drink from the "Flave Orifice at Delphi" doesn't mean I'm clueless. The gent I mentioned was arrested HERE, THEN they served a warrant at his house. Of course there is a parallel as there is with many arrest scenarios. In fact, during the post mortem on the Koresh fiasco, there was a lot of criticism leveled at the agents for NOT having picked Koresh up out in town when they had multiple opportunities.


You can always tell a pilot, you just can't tell them much.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
It's "aviator" if you please. Don't know how this weighs in but one of the many comments I've seen;

As a 37 year LE veteran who served numerous search and arrest warrants, including high risk warrants, standard protocol is to stand or crouch to the side of a door when knocking and announcing a warrant. Or, wait for the suspect to exit (an apartment in this case) if the suspect is believed to be armed and dangerous.
I hate to say it, but 5 Agents bunched at the front door of an apartment was tragic tactical execution, IF that is what happened (IF all the shots were fired through the closed apartment door).
Posted By: jimy Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Anything coming out about this being tied to the Biden bitches laptop kiddie porn ?
Posted By: viking Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jimy
Anything coming out about this being tied to the Biden bitches laptop kiddie porn ?



You kidding me, it’s probably an enemy of the state. They will protect the Buy’ems at all cost. Think KGB.
Posted By: jimy Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by viking
Originally Posted by jimy
Anything coming out about this being tied to the Biden bitches laptop kiddie porn ?



You kidding me, it’s probably an enemy of the state. They will protect the Buy’ems at all cost. Think KGB.


Just like Epstein , this shooter most likely didn't hang himself either !
Posted By: Cheyenne Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
I see we have a skirmish on this thread about whether the guy should have been arrested outside his residence prior to the search warrant being executed. Was there even an arrest warrant issued in this case? The news reports I saw only referred to a search warrant. Computer crimes, including kiddie porn, frequently involve search warrants with no corresponding arrest warrants. There may be probable cause to search a location based on stuff like IP addresses and Internet provider bills, but that still doesn’t tie the evidence at the location to a specific person.

The other problem with search warrants, as opposed to arrest warrants, is that that they have a limited life span because evidence can be lost or destroyed, or the probable cause can become stale as a matter of law and preclude service. The police cannot just wait for the best time to serve them. The longer they wait, the greater the risk of loss of evidence or probable cause.

Regardless of whether there was an arrest warrant, or even if the guy had been picked up before the search warrant execution, there always is the chance of someone being at the location to be searched. In addition, as we see here, cheap surveillance equipment available to homeowners makes it much easier for occupants to detect the presence of people outside. Even people outside the location can get notices on their smart phones that can allow them to take whatever action they choose. Because no agency has unlimited resources, risk mitigation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. It is not a perfect world. This situation had a sad ending.

Carry on.
Posted By: Mannlicher Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by Sakoluvr
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Problems arose when millions of South Americans and damn yankees move here


When exactly did that happen?

With regards to the damn yankees, it started right after AC was invented. For the other, probably about the time of Carter’s Mariel boat lift.
Posted By: OldmanoftheSea Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Was it another pedophile that Fled NYC for warmer climes?
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
It's "aviator" if you please. Don't know how this weighs in but one of the many comments I've seen;

As a 37 year LE veteran who served numerous search and arrest warrants, including high risk warrants, standard protocol is to stand or crouch to the side of a door when knocking and announcing a warrant. Or, wait for the suspect to exit (an apartment in this case) if the suspect is believed to be armed and dangerous.
I hate to say it, but 5 Agents bunched at the front door of an apartment was tragic tactical execution, IF that is what happened (IF all the shots were fired through the closed apartment door).


You can always tell an aviator, but you can’t tell them much.

Better?
Posted By: jimy Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Posted By: OrangeOkie Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


100% exactamundo.
Posted By: OrangeOkie Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Just because I don't always drink from the "Flave Orifice at Delphi" doesn't mean I'm clueless. The gent I mentioned was arrested HERE, THEN they served a warrant at his house. Of course there is a parallel as there is with many arrest scenarios. In fact, during the post mortem on the Koresh fiasco, there was a lot of criticism leveled at the agents for NOT having picked Koresh up out in town when they had multiple opportunities.


Again 100% correct!
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


100% exactamundo.


Do either of you know what a search warrant is?
Posted By: local_dirt Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...





Bingo!!!!

Geebus.
Posted By: local_dirt Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Originally Posted by Sakoluvr
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Problems arose when millions of South Americans and damn yankees move here


When exactly did that happen?

With regards to the damn yankees, it started right after AC was invented. For the other, probably about the time of Carter’s Mariel boat lift.




Long enough ago to make me a minority.

Saw a lot of marielitos "step off" back in the day.

Now, the Karen's hand them bottles of Vitawater and California rolls when they float up on Hollywood Beach.

Lol.
Posted By: johnw Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


LEOs have been known to "plan" pursuits to end at a residence/crib/place of business so it can be searched pursuant to arrest. What kind of warrants were these feds holding? And why didn't they have a warrant team?
Posted By: Oldelkhunter Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Floriduh is plumb full of surprises.


Plumb full of scumbags that moved from Blue states would be more like it.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


100% exactamundo.


Do either of you know what a search warrant is?


Probably at least as much as you do.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Problems arose when millions of South Americans and damn yankees move here


I expect an asterisk should have been added to your statement to exclude "The Pearl Of the Antilles." ....
Posted By: deflave Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


100% exactamundo.


Do either of you know what a search warrant is?


Probably at least as much as you do.


Oh I’m sure.

LOL
Posted By: Cheyenne Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


LEOs have been known to "plan" pursuits to end at a residence/crib/place of business so it can be searched pursuant to arrest. What kind of warrants were these feds holding? And why didn't they have a warrant team?


Search incident to arrest is very limited. It is not going to get close to allowing a detailed review of digital media. (Check out Riley v. CA (U.S. 2014) that dealt with the review of cell phone data incident to arrest.) You are going to have to get a real deal search warrant for that stuff.

Edited to add: Searching an entire crib incident to arrest also is limited, and has gotten more limited over time.
Posted By: MontanaMan Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by Salmonella
My little brother, a retired Sheriff's deputy, liberal hating, golf loving patriot is relocating to Punta Gorda.
Has nothing but good to say about it.


Floreeda gets the full gamut, from really great people in some really nice places, to the scum of the earth, but unlike most of the rest of the country where most of that scum is most predominant in the metro areaw, in Floreeda it's far more dispersed everywhere across the state.

MM
Posted By: Jim_Conrad Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Wonder how many warrants get served every year where the suspect and the serving officers dont get killed?


I bet its more than say......a dozen?


99.9% of wildland fire gets caught in the Initial Attack stage.


Every firefighter in the US is a bum because of the .1 that escaped Initial Attack......
Posted By: johnw Re: Florida.? - 02/04/21
Originally Posted by Cheyenne
Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


LEOs have been known to "plan" pursuits to end at a residence/crib/place of business so it can be searched pursuant to arrest. What kind of warrants were these feds holding? And why didn't they have a warrant team?


Search incident to arrest is very limited. It is not going to get close to allowing a detailed review of digital media. (Check out Riley v. CA (U.S. 2014) that dealt with the review of cell phone data incident to arrest.) You are going to have to get a real deal search warrant for that stuff.

Edited to add: Searching an entire crib incident to arrest also is limited, and has gotten more limited over time.


I have no doubt that you're right. My take on this pre-dates digital data for individuals, email and the floppy disk...
Posted By: local_dirt Re: Florida.? - 02/05/21
Originally Posted by Salmonella
My little brother, a retired Sheriff's deputy, liberal hating, golf loving patriot is relocating to Punta Gorda.
Has nothing but good to say about it.





If he has the notion, Great spot to fish his ass off. And not far from the piggies.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Florida.? - 02/05/21
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I guess it would have made too much sense (and the same goes for Koresh and Weaver) to wait until the guy goes out in town and just pick them up out in the open...


100% exactamundo.


Do either of you know what a search warrant is?


Probably at least as much as you do.


Oh I’m sure.

LOL

Well, since I have no idea as to what you do, that still remains an open question....
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