https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/v...lAn_QeoqQhUzjChyToVIO-fLJeC9nR9bSEU7KZQk

video in the link, sorry about copy all the comments.

A crazed man’s rampage came to a not-so-sudden end Saturday morning in Montgomery County Maryland, and a bystander caught it all on video. After striking a lone deputy twice with a long stick, the attacker took a dozen rounds while still advancing on the officer.

It looked like the stuff of nightmares. The attacker looked more like a college professor with his sport coat and khaki pants than a would-be cop-killing lunatic. The wicked grin on his face added a freaky, horror-film feel as the man just kept advancing on the retreating deputy. That was after he broke a long piece of wood with a couple of blows over the deputy’s forearm.

The suspect, after absorbing eight rounds. Screencap by Boch via Streamable.

The story from WUSA says the man caused a couple of accidents by ramming other vehicles before the deputy arrived.

The incident happened around 8 a.m. Saturday. Montgomery County police received several 911 calls Saturday morning of a man driving erratically in the area. Police Chief Marcus Jones said two cars were struck by the driver before the deputy arrived on the scene.

When the deputy arrived, he saw the man approaching two people with a large wooden stick, according to Sheriff Darren Popkin. When the deputy intervened, the deputy and the man began fighting, and the man struck the deputy at least once with the piece of wood.

The deputy attempted to deploy his Taser, according to Popkin. When he wasn’t successful, the deputy shot the man, the sheriff said.

Here’s the video. It’s NSFW because of the violence and the language used in the color commentary by the man recording the incident from inside his car.

Video Player
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01:24

There are a lot of lessons here for those who carry a gun for personal defense.

First off, distance gives you time and time gives you options. Options often mean safety. This deputy faced an adversary with a very long stick and the willingness to use it as a weapon. The cop did the best he could given his mobility (or lack thereof) to create some distance. But let’s face it, this cop wasn’t going to out-backpedal his attacker.

If any of us find ourselves facing an attacker with an edged weapon or blunt-force instrument, your mind should be thinking distance and obstacles. Both with give you time to consider options. The Tueller drill is widely taught for a reason.

Secondly, the deputy showed good tactics by continuing to move while firing. Hence why all of us should “get off the X” and practice firing while moving. Not all ranges allow this, but if you are able to find locations or opportunities to shoot on the move in practice, do so. It might save you from death or great bodily injury someday.

Screencap by Boch via Streamable

Next, this surely looks like a “failure to stop” after being shot with the first few rounds. That may suggest the attacker had concealed body armor under his clothes. In these cases, one should hunt the head as a target of opportunity, but the pelvic region moves a lot slower. This one is shooter’s choice. In the end, the bad guy finally went down…after twelve(!) rounds. That’s a good thing, because Deputy Dog likely only had three or four left in the magazine.

Keep a link to this video on your phone. It should be played every time a gun control advocate or politician suggests that no one needs more than ten rounds in a magazine.

For those of us carrying single-stack 9mm or .380 pistols, or .38 revolvers, the attacker here would have probably gone hands-on with you after you exhausted your 5, 6 or 7 rounds. And it’s difficult to pull off a reload with someone’s pounding on your melon. Between missed shots and ineffective hits, you need to be prepared for what happens next if your snubbie or Ruger LCP runs dry before an attacker runs out of attack.

We all know there are a lot of crazy people wandering around society today. This deputy simply had the misfortune of running into one on a Saturday morning in February. Unlike the rest of us, the deputy couldn’t simply employ the Nike defense and run away. The unidentified deputy did, however, appear to exhaust every avenue of avoidance even at the risk of injury to himself before finally stopping the threat.

Lastly, the deputy made a couple of mistakes, but on the whole, he stood between the innocent people of his community and what appears to have been a crazed lunatic. This situation could have been a lot worse if Professor Longstick had attacked a mother and her infant or toddler as part of his rampage before one or more cops arrived. For that, we should all be thankful for that deputy’s actions.

comments

avatar possum says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:02

.9mm and lots of them
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avatar A says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:22

I would 100% need to change my pants after this. I has a dream 2 nights a go where for some reason I was in LA (i live in the midwest) and I needed to shoot a guy who looked like the Rock. i, for some reason, only has a .32 on me and emptied the entire gun into his chest and it did zero. He still came at me and I still needed to run. The one major thing I still remember about the dream was how horrible I felt for needing to engage someone with my gun. I felt terrible and woke up visibly shaken.
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avatar BEN G says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:58

I’ve had a couple of bad dreams where I had to shoot someone. In both, time slowed to a crawl at the moment of truth and what I remember most is being so sad & angry that this person was making me shoot them and that was the LAST thing I wanted to do…
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avatar Ing says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:28

I’ve had plenty of those as well. Time always does slow down to a virtual standstill at trigger-pulling time.

I wouldn’t call them bad dreams, though. I mean, they’re not *good* ones (except for a couple where everything went perfectly and the goblins really *needed* to die), but they’re not like full-on nightmares or anything. I tend to process a lot of things through what I’d call “nervous” dreaming, the kind of long, rambling dreams where nothing really works properly and things always go wrong in very weird ways.

One side effect of all those DGU dreams is that I’ve gotten a LOT better at manipulating my weapons and taking out the bad guys in them. 🙂
avatar Newshawk says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:28

In the case of .9 mm, I’d suggest about 120 rounds would suffice, considering a 10 to 1 ratio.
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avatar GS650G says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:30

He needed that 45mm handgun the NYT talked about.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:40

Hell, *I* need one of those!
avatar Elmer Fudd says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:32

I have one of those.
avatar enuf says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:51

Yes, a 1.772″ caliber handgun would be a superior option.
avatar DaveL says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:09

Remember, scaling all dimensions by x0.1 means one tenth the diameter, one hundredth the cross-section, one thousandth the volume or mass.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:32

“In the case of .9 mm, I’d suggest about 120 rounds would suffice, considering a 10 to 1 ratio.”

The size of the firearm that uses .9mm is so small that 120 .90mm rounds might not be possible, even with an extended mag. Thinking one would need some sort of belt feed to manage 120 rounds of .9mm in a compatible firearm.
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avatar Rad Man says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:21

Everyone knows the .9mm is the ultimate manstopper. That’s why Democrats want the round classified as an NFA destructive device.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:11

“Everyone knows the .9mm is the ultimate manstopper. ”

Are you talking about little itty bitty, teeny tiny, green men from Mars?

You have to carry a .9mm gun on your key chain, else it will get lost in your pocket debris and fuzz.
avatar Sgt Bill says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:49

law enforcement need to go back to .40s
less wimpy officers will qualify with it and thats a good thing
bigger holes with less rounds
let the discussion begin
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avatar ChuckinIL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:28

That discussion is already over.
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avatar Billb says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:31

“High Cap” .45 then.
avatar I Haz A Question says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:34

Two to the thoracic, and if after that the threat is still an immediate danger (might be on PCP or have body armor, etc.) a third to the ocular to end it decisively. A very effective strategy, and legally defensible. There is no need to continue dumping a dozen rounds center mass as the only perceived option.
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avatar YPP says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:07

Not many people can hit a target the size of an eye socket under life-and-death threat.
avatar Paul says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:09

YPP says:
“Not many people can hit a target the size of an eye socket under life-and-death threat.”

If you miss by an inch, he’s going to be hurting mofo anyway. No matter where you hit an assailant in the face, there is gray matter behind it. Nostrils, mouth, throat, or even the forehead, there’s gray matter back there. Stir that gray stuff just a little bit, he’s going down.
avatar Jimmy Beam says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:33

Keep using the 9mm for self defense, folks. It’s really effective! /sarc

Two 125 grain .357 magnum hollow points would have taken care of business.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:04

Police should carry nothing less than a Desert Eagle .50cal. Or a rifle calibre pistol in .30cal.

As should every legal gun owner.
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avatar jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:10

If memory serves you only have a .22. Does this make you an illegal gun owner?
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:16

“If memory serves you only have a .22. Does this make you an illegal gun owner?”

Not at all. Just as tadpole in the gun universe. Fortunately my Neos carries 10+1 ammo capacity. If a bad guy stands real still, I could put 11 rounds into him/her/it. Not having a .50cal handgun, I just need to put twice as many bullets into the critical mass.
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avatar RV6Driver says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:52

The most honest guy on TTAG!!! 👏
avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:50

“The most honest guy on TTAG!!! ”

Careful !

Things like that can get you run out of here.
avatar enuf says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:55

Yes but you have to put the first five rounds in exactly the same entry hole, one on top of the other. Then the second five rounds get their own hole, one of top of the other.

This is called “Nail Driving” or “Tack Driving”. Very popular in the Old West of Hollywood.

Your 11th round is to shoot your buddy in the foot so you can out run the bear.
avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:03

“Yes but you have to put the first five rounds in exactly the same entry hole, one on top of the other. ”

Not a problem if the bad guy is real, real still.
avatar rt66paul says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:49

A 7.62 x 25 will do just about anything a rifle round in .30 can do from a handgun. No matter what, it will probably be straight through.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:44

I’ll bite. Dafook is a 7.62 x 25? Is that .300 blk? They do work real well from really short barrels, like 6-9 inches.
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avatar Wiregrass says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:07

Soviet Tokarev round.
avatar strych9 says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:13

7.62×25 Tokarev. Old Ruskie pistol/subgun round.
avatar uncommon_sense says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:14

Larry in TX,

According to some answer that I found in Google:

The 7.62×25mm Tokarev cartridge (designated as the 7.62 × 25 Tokarev by the C.I.P.) is a Russian rimless bottlenecked pistol cartridge widely used in former Soviet states and in China, among other countries.

avatar CC Ryder says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:06

I’d think if nothing else the muzzle blast from that round might stun him, also.
avatar hawkeye says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:22

Fun to shoot, quite a fireball at the muzzle. 85-90 grain FMJ or JHP pushed out a 4.6″ barrel at 1500fps or so, depending on the load, some hotter than that.
avatar Pb_fan59 says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:19

Okay, let’s climb into the way back machine…. CZ 52 surplus circa 1988 or so, imported in decent shape for around $135, ammo about $1.65 / 25 rounds of 85 gr @ around 1600 fps. Grip was kinda long front to back, bore axis was kinda high, felt a lot like a 22Automag…. loud as hell, fun as anything legal could be. Don’t know if they are still available and ammo is scarce nowadays, but had a really high fun quotient, if it were higher capacity, I’d think about carrying with it stoked with decent HP loads.
avatar Wumingren says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:46

You should find hollow-points or something that pack all the energy into the object. I don’t think you can use exploding ammo, but perhaps a hollow-point filled with mercury and sealed with a drop of wax.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:47

“A 7.62 x 25…”

Isn’t 7.62X25 a .30cal round? Thinking out of a handgun, it will not reach rifle velocities. Would a .30cal round be more efficient than .32cal (which is laughed at)?
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avatar Torn says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:21

7.62×25 runs about 1700 fps.out of the Soviet gun, not too bad with ball ammo. Obviously a lot more effective with Hollow point
avatar jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:23

Sam. I had a tokarev tt33. Just off the top of my head the projectile from same was .30 cal that weighed somewhere around 80-90 grains. At 1400-1600 fps.

My .32acp was a 71 grain bullet at about half that speed. The russian round had a 25mm long case and the .32 had a 17mm long case, sans bullets.

All this is from my hazy old man memory. I had the Tok back in the old days when the iron curtain was still up and commie guns and ammo were rare and exotic.

The russian round seemed to have quite a bit more authority behind it than the .32.
avatar Eric says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:04

Sorta like a miniature.357 Sig.
avatar Rick James says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:07

I didnt watch the vid here at work, but did the deputy fire two shots in the air with his shotgun first?
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avatar Plinker says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:14

Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are. You know, the thing…
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avatar Phil LA says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:25

The thing!
Ha!
Cornpop was a bad dude!
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avatar Serpent_Vision says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:32

Obviously not, or it would have scared the guy off and prevented the attack (according to the Prez).
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:46

Wasn’t that just for his wife?
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avatar JOLJ says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:48

Wife? You mean his babysitter.
avatar Wumingren says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:49

Didn’t Uncle Joe say to fire the shotgun through the front door as well?
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avatar CC Ryder says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:08

Yes, yes he did.
avatar enuf says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:57

“No balcony was harmed in the making of this defensive shooting”.
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avatar jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:08

Looks like a bernie bro.

At my age my chances of out fighting a person that I’ve shot 3-5 times with a .38 are much better than a person that has not been shot. And I’m sure as hell not going to outrun most adult males. Maybe the ones on walkers.
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avatar TommyJay says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:37

Yup. Looks like a Hodgkinson 2.0 without the planning.
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avatar LOL @ jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:39

A cursory check of easily viewable records confirms this ‘man’ is a MAGAt through and through. Another one of the 74 million losers bites the dust!!
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avatar Tim says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:47

Blue-haired “chicks” and their fantasies….
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avatar jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:48

Hey, Geoff. You let your bitch off her leash. Want to come get her.
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avatar Geoff "I'm getting to old for this [bleep]" PR says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:18

“You let your bitch off her leash.”

I’m not selfish, you can play with it if you want.

Just give it a kick square in the teeth, it’ll whimper away the way it always does.

Make the insults very personal, it’s fun, and it *really* hates that… 🙂
avatar LOL @ GOOF & jwm says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:18

Hey everyone Vietnam War (era) veteran and stolen valor enthusiast jwm attempted a funny. Certainly better than anything that buffoon Goof Can crap out. Man what a loser.
avatar Geoff "I'm getting to old for this [bleep]" PR says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:10

Even the TTAG women kick the troll in the head!

How *humiliating* for the troll!

What’s it like being male with no testosterone, widdle troll? Just some shriveled up testicles? 😉
avatar Debbie W. says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:34

lol twerp…Instead of sitting high above the fray in women’s underwear and getting your perverted jollies off on what you see why don’t you take your perverted sht to the streets? C’;mon twerp… Put on your Jim Crow Gun Control democRat Party KKK sheet and come and get ’em or stfu boy.
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avatar Dennis Sumner says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:10

Yup, after failure to assume the prone after a few decent hits, head and groin!!
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:49

Looked like he ended up with some of those scattered around, though I’d admit they were so close I think even I could have pulled off a head shot.
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avatar A says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:13

Que Massive Outrage in 1,2,3 thousand years…..
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avatar Billy says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:48

No outrage, he was white.
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avatar Michael says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:13

It would be interesting to know what drugs the perp had in his system. My thought would be methamphetamines as this behavior is not unknown for those using it. One druggie in Florida took 10 rounds of .40S&W before he gave it up.
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avatar Billb says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:16

I’d like to see a truthful report about the perpetrators mental record (if any), blood work to see if drugs were involved and if he had on armor of any kind. Also where each shot hit and what organ(s) were hit. This is video evidence to support why I went from a 5 shot revolver to a 13 shot semi.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:52

He appeared to still be grinning as he keeled over, guy was seriously screwed up. I did not catch, can we confirm I am not going to run into him? Like, is he dead? I’d also like to know what the hell the shirt was, what important message was he promoting?
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avatar uncommon_sense says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:22

BillB,

I do not think that the aggressor was wearing any ballistic resistant items — you can see blood soaking through is shirt within a few seconds of him laying on the ground.

Honestly, I have to wonder if this was a case of demon possession. First of all, the guy had allegedly crashed into multiple cars before the deputy arrived. Second of all, it was at 8 a.m. on a Saturday morning — not a likely time for someone to be cranked up on drugs. Third, the guy had a look of evil satisfaction/defiance/anger on his face as he kept advancing on the deputy — even while taking several rounds to his torso. The look on his face did not change until he was laying on the ground. And even then the look on his face did not seem to reflect what a normal person would be doing.
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avatar guest says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:54

Lol you think drug addicts keep a schedule?
Reply
avatar Porridgeweasel says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:25

Well, they do make the 4:20 appointment!
avatar Geoff "I'm getting to old for this [bleep]" PR says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:12

That was no weed high, that was more like PCP and meth.

*Zero* mellow in that guy…
avatar Jimmy Beam says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:38

Covid Insanity plus Meth
Reply
avatar Phil LA says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:28

I figured suicide by cop.
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avatar AlanInFL says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:18

Another reason why having a 10 round magazine capacity restriction does not work.

I seen the unedited video where he collapsed and and started bleed out alot.
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avatar GS650G says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:28

It’s hard to think under that kind of pressure but I agree empty the mag moving the gun up and down across CoM.
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avatar rt66paul says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:53

He may have still been walking, but he was already doomed after the 3rd or 4th shot.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:54

That knowledge doesn’t help the cop, he was still swinging the stick.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:51

“He may have still been walking, but he was already doomed after the 3rd or 4th shot.”

But possibly still a deadly threat.
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avatar B says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:18

At that distance and speed, a head shot or two was very feasible. The perp was amped up with rage and maybe chemicals on board. Doubletap the upper chest and controlled pair to the snotbox, done.
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avatar YPP says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:23

You’re obviously correct that a headshot would have been far more effective, but I’m sure that the officer involved was under tremendous stress in the moment. Pelvic shots are nearly as effective in terms of stopping an advancing attacker, easier to make (larger target and slower moving), and–very importantly–are less liable to be disastrous for people downrange in the event of a miss.
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avatar Eric says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:10

Also gotta remember Rule 4: Know your target and backstop. A bullet fired at that elevated angle goes a loooong way.
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avatar GS650G says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:25

12 gauge buck would of been better. But ya dance with the girl you brought.
That cop will never forget this or watch TWD again..
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avatar NORDNEG says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:28

After the perp gets hit with a couple of rounds & still is advancing on your position, it’s time to target the head,
Just another reason to have a high capacity BIG BORE
pistola. & if you’re not confident in your aiming ability just hop in your squad & run the freak over…
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avatar Newshawk says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:30

Makes me glad the two primary magazines I now have for my G2c are 17 and 15 rounds.
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avatar Florida Kracker says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:30

Those who carry 7 rounds of .380 and feel good about it, take note
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avatar ChoseDeath says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:31

[bleep] man… intense. In the words of the late, great Richard Pryor, “you hit me with that stick, I’m gonna bite ya dick.”
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avatar eagle10 says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:34

Reminded me of the terminator – taking shots and still coming forward.
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avatar Jeff Hulbert says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:40

There is more to the story and I’m trying to do some research to find out what it is. The man that died was wearing an Army logo for the 160th Special Operations Airborne Regiment known as Nightstalkers. The motto on his shirt says “Death Waits In The Dark – Nightstalkers. He was shot at 8am on a Saturday morning, wearing a business blazer over his SOAR t-shirt. He wore lace up duty boots. He died only about a mile from his home, which he paid $500K for about a year ago. He did not flinch when 10+ rounds hit him in the chest. In fact, he leaned into it. I am of the opinion that this was some sort of PTSD suicide by vehicle, and that when that failed, it moved to suicide by cop. There is some evidence he was married and had children. I hope the full story comes out.
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avatar Wumingren says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:29

I’ll wait for confirmation about the guy’s veteran status. PTSD? The guy is pretty old. As for the T-shirt, it’s skiable online for $16.99. Maybe the guy just liked the logo and meme. I’ll wait for more details.
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avatar Manse Jolly says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:42

This video and a couple of others cemented my decision to go to 357sig for my EDC now. Just have to find some defensive ammo..lol..All I have is range ammo for the 357 as I don’t like to shoot it that much.

I was discussing this video yesterday, it got taken down from original hosting site. Everyone agreed that the cop was getting good hits…but zombie guy kept coming. Some things the cop did wrong but hey, he survived so it’s a win.

9mm gets retired to range practice, I’ve seen enough.
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avatar uncommon_sense says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:33

Manse Jolly,

Sounds like you already acquired your .357 Sig handgun. If not, consider .40 S&W if you want a bit more “oomph” over 9mm Luger. Keep in mind that .357 Sig is simply .40 S&W necked down to .357 caliber with ever-so-slightly less case capacity (from necking it down a tiny bit).

The beauty of .40 S&W is that you have a really wide range of bullet weights from which to choose. If you want maximum muzzle velocity, go with 135 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity around 1,400 feet-per-second. Or you can increase bullet weight to 155 grains with a muzzle velocity around 1,250 feet per second. Finally, you can go all the way to 180 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity around 950 feet per second.

Another advantage of .40 S&W is that ammunition is more widely available, even during periods of incredible demand.

Having said all that, keep in mind that all handgun platforms tend to be unreliable man-stoppers. About the only handgun platform that I would expect to be a reliable man-stopper would be a revolver with a six-inch barrel chambered in .44 Magnum and shooting full-power cartridges with 180 grain hollowpoint bullets. (Those would have a muzzle velocity around 1,600 feet-per-second and would have to be incredibly debilitating.) Of course you have to question the utility of attempting to conceal and/or carry around such a large Magnum revolver.
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avatar Manse Jolly says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:30

Yes, I have a Glock in .357sig. That being said, I’m not in love with with it. I have been carrying Federal 147gr HSTs in my G19 and would like to stick to similar. Staying with the Glock platform is easier than jumping to my full 1911, which I don’t have enough holster choices for, it’s heavy, and not as concealable. I shoot the .45 much better but ammo is expensive just like the .357sig.

I don’t know. Would like to see the autopsy report on the zombie guy. He got way too close.

I can move better than the cop since my range allows movement on several of our ranges. I’m not ancient yet, although my body feels like it most days.
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avatar Jim Jones says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:43

On side note…the response and words of the person recording this video is just as sickening. He seems thrilled a person was shot simply because he was “white” and getting what he deserved….purely racist world view. The lack of any shock and almost glee in his voice was incredibly concerning…..absolutely no humanity. And to keep shooting the video while a human being took his final breaths is also sickening. We are dead as a society.
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avatar Geoff "I'm getting to old for this [bleep]" PR says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:45

I noticed that as well.

Partial verbatim transcription below…
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avatar John (just tripped over a case of Yugo M67) in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:13

Very glad to see him continue recording.
Though I agree that his commentary is inappropriate, his reaction is 100% transparent, and this is good for discourse.

All these gun newbs need to see what “finding out” looks like.
I’m just glad we don’t have smellavision… thanks but no thanks.
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avatar Jeff the Griz says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:18

I didn’t listen to the commentary. I did notice the person filming should have been exiting the situation. Being that close to a gun fight is ridiculous to me.
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avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:25

Imagine this were a sporting event, the crowd would be shouting something… de-fense… de-fense…de-fense…
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:01

My phone would have been on the floorboard and I would have been digging out all my available guns in case the cop needed help, continuing to record seems crazy, but I imagine the cop will be thankful for the record, more than he would be for my (unneeded) help.
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avatar Not Larry from Texas says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:13

Larry it is Maryland, so unless you get a untaniable CCW the pistol has to be unloaded in a separate locked container from the ammo in your trunk. They would probably charge you with something, this is the DC metro where the police look for out of state tags with CCW information and deliberately go out their way to charge people with firearm violations.
avatar Geoff "I'm getting to old for this [bleep]" PR says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:44

“Now that’s the [bleep] I like to see! Thought your ass was privileged!”

(The voice of the one who recorded the video)
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avatar Dude says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:26

“Thought your ass was privileged!”

He’s only repeating what the media/DNC narrative tells us everyday. Cops only shoot black men.
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avatar Chris T in KY says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:45

My ruger p89 has a 17+1 capacity.

“Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job”

https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...nds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
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avatar Darkman says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:14

Nice to see another P89 owner, the tank of the 90’s is One fine firearm. Is your a DC? I wouldn’t trade mine for any of these new plastic fantastic things they sell today.
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avatar Yellow06TJ says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:46

I love my P89 also. I’m a lefty and the P89 checks off all the boxes for me except being comcealiable. It is one of the most reliable semi autos I own.
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avatar RayS says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:42

I’ve also got one but it’s relegated to the “go bag”.
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avatar Jeff Hulbert says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:47

The Deputy Sheriff had no other options, but possibly shooting a suicidal veteran will leave the Deputy with a ton of guilt. Very sad story. And the man who recorded it and commented disgracefully as it was happening is a pathetic RACIST.
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avatar Debbie W. says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:32

One minute a respected vet the next minute a perp. Maintaining credibility is a second by second minute by minute undertaking. Obviously something got the best of the man and caused him to become a drama queen who disobeyed orders from a commanding officer and in doing so he was court marshaled in the street.
Where you got “RACIST” from what I heard said I dunno. Musta missed SOMETHING.
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:59

“One minute a respected vet the next minute a perp. ”

POTG need to digest this, over and again. Might well have written, “One minute a law abiding gun owner, the next minute a perp.” It is this instant change of condition that terrifies the anti-gun mob (well, it is what they use to keep their myths alive, which is just as dangerous).
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avatar Dude says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:33

“suicidal veteran”

This is a sad situation, but that vet is a POS for trying to take people with him by driving into other cars.
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avatar Mike Hawkizard says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:51

“ That may suggest the attacker had concealed body armor under his clothes.”

This is an absolutely ridiculous assumption in this case, as we know that the individual shot was not wearing body armor. It just goes to show that you can land successive shots center mass, but the human body can endure a lot in certain circumstances.
The amount of cope all you 9mm users have is pathetic.
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avatar I Haz A Question says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:42

As I stated further up, caliber isn’t the main factor. 9mm, .40, .45, whatever…

Two to the thoracic, and if after that the threat is still an immediate danger (might be on PCP or have body armor, etc.) a third to the ocular to end it decisively. A very effective strategy, and legally defensible. There is no need to continue dumping a dozen rounds center mass as the only perceived option.

Everyone is welcome and encouraged to choose their favorite cartridge and train with it Variety is spice. But anyone who believes modern 9mm loads cannot effectively stop a crazed attacker should perhaps educate himself better.
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avatar guest says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:03

You’re an idiot.
14 rounds of .45 to stop a perp.
https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...nds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
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avatar GRA says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:55

For all you 9MM or nothing clowns … OBSERVE HERE WHY I PREFER THE .40 over everything less.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:04

What makes you think the cop was shooting a 9mm? And, if he was shooting a .40, is that why you are moving (FINALLY!) to the mighty .45?
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avatar Sam I Am says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:52

“For all you 9MM or nothing clowns…”

Meaning there is absolutely no legitimate reason 9mm is the most common weapon for cops and soldiers?
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avatar guest says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:04

Then why did this perp take 14 rounds of .45 before being stopped?

https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...nds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
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avatar former water walker says:
February 8, 2021 at 10:59

Aim for the head…and crotch. That’ll learn him!
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avatar Debbie W. says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:04

Do not extend your weapon so a head taller perp closing in on you with a long stick can bat it and your head into left field. Time for low ready and adding distance. The video’s “master of ceremonies”” was several times right for the green light however I commend the officer for doing everything he could and then some.
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avatar MADDMAXX says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:06

Gee MADDMAXX why do you carry that heavy ass 10 MM? Isn’t THAT overkill?… [bleep] 9 MM, you never know what you’re going to be up against.. That’s why I load 185 grain HP with an extra mag AND one 15 round mag of 225 grain hard cast lead….
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avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:09

The best millimeter! The gong doesn’t lie, 10mm is more than double a 9mm.
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avatar Pb_fan59 says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:36

[bleep], pb- you carry that thing full of 45super ? Don’t you think that’s kinda overkill? ” Anything worth killing is worth overkilling, I always say !”
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avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:38

Folding 450 Bushmaster pistol has entered the chat.
avatar MADDMAXX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:01

Anything worth killing is worth overkilling, I always say !”

Agreed….
avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:07

I think, a lot of non-hunters or service members, will have some reaction to watching this man struggle for those last few breaths. It always looks the same.

Two to the chest… face gets the rest.
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avatar Ralph says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:13

Probably suicide by cop. In any case, two to one says the guy with the stick will be voting in the next election.
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avatar John (fried gator tail) in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:31

@ Ralph I’ll put $10 on that.

From the linked article.
“The man, identified as 52-year-old Kevin Costlow, of Laytonsville…MONTGOMERY COUNTY, Md”

Reply in the affirmative, and we can work out contact info.
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avatar Jeff the Griz says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:33

I don’t know Ralph. They may want to use his name on the gun violence lists instead, they gotta start working on those numbers to prove how dangerous firearms are.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:08

He looked healthy enough to do both, to me!
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avatar busybeef says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:22

my state says I only need 10 rounds to defend myself.
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avatar Warlocc says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:36

Yeah, I carry two extra reloads as a result of such stupid laws. But reloading isn’t particularly easy while someone’s beating on you with a weapon.

I wonder if you’d have a viable lawsuit against the state if you were a citizen limited to 10 in this situation.
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avatar Dude says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:02

D.C. has a 10 round mag limit, and only allows you to carry a maximum of 20 rounds on your person.
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avatar I Haz A Question says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:46

My home state of CA does, too, except I participated in ‘Freedom Week’ almost two years ago and gots me plenty of legal full-cap mags.

But even so, you only need three. Two to the pump, one to the junction box.
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avatar GunnyGene says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:57

Too bad. Mine has no restrictions on ammo, magazine, weapon, or carry/own/purchase (other than Federal).
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avatar Jim Hutter says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:27

I carry a 40. But, If the aggressor is unarmed with a weapon (Other than a club), I most likely would have ran to my squad car and called for backup. Hopeing more officers would get thier in enough time.
The Sherrif did nothing wrong. I don’t believe their is a right or wrong way for a cop to react. Insticktively, he is running the show. The Sherrif appeard to be aiming at certer mass. That is what he is trained to do. No Hollywood shots to the head or legs or wounding him goes in this case.
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avatar GunnyGene says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:32

The left is going to be screaming police brutality – as usual.
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avatar Wumingren says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:06

Wrong skin tone.
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avatar GunnyGene says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:53

Photoshop can fix that. 😉
avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:34

We understand that shooting people in the face is uber bad PR.

And, you must be old as hell, the radio is on your shoulder, not in the car. (obviously the car contains components and function, but PTT is everywhere for decades)
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:11

Called for backup? Whatcha think backup is gonna do? Answer: hopin’ they’ll do your job for you? The guy was attacking strangers on the street, you ARE the backup which has been called, do your damn job.
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avatar Lance says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:19

Larryin TX – NAILED IT!!
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avatar GunnyGene says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:30

The deputy was lucky the guy only had a stick.
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avatar ChuckinIL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:33

Pelvic girdle.

That is all.

#dickshootersclub
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avatar ChoseDeath says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:24

FOR LIFE. Right in the chassis.
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avatar Debbie W. says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:38

OK..Time to put an end to these 9mm bashing tough guys. I’ll make deal with any one of you. I’ll shoot you with one 9mm round and then you can shoot me with whatever you want. Deal?
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avatar John (just tripped over a case of Yugo M67) in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:39

300 WinMag has entered the chat.
Deal.
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avatar LarryinTX says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:14

He didn’t say you could bring a friend. Let me shoot you once with a 9mm, I don’t give a [bleep] if you brought a 30 mm cannon.
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avatar I Haz A Question says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:50

Lol, John, you might notice that Debbie said she’ll shoot you first with a 9mm, and then you can try to shoot her with your elk cannon. Assuming she didn’t drop you to your knees with a gonad shot, or put 115 grains of metallurgical goodness into your braincase.
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avatar Debbie W. says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:00

john boy…you are proof positive a sucker is born everyday.
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avatar Ralph says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:49

Covid-19 claims another victim.
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avatar John in FL says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:51

Voted #1 clickbait rickrolling title.
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avatar MB (the real MB) says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:57

When the nut job gun grabbers say “Why would anyone need more that 10 bullets” Show them this. Well here 11 bullets wasn’t enough to stop the perp…#12 did.
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avatar Timbo says:
February 8, 2021 at 11:59

185 grain, 45 +p, just like what I carry, would do the job. I agree that after 2-3 ineffective hits, the pelvic girdle and/or head should be next…
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avatar Chris T in KY says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:11

The attacker was wearing a “Night Stalkers Don’t Quit” shirt. I may have served with this guy back in the day. Very sad.
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avatar Arizona Free says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:16

Did anyone notice the bulging artery in his neck. He looks very hyped up. Second he appears to be wearing a badge on the left side of his chest. He pointed to it at the beginning of the confrontation.
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avatar Do Know Harm says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:35

That is a bulging external jugular vein. That can happen with anything that slows blood flow return from the upper body to the heart. In this case, I would guess either from reflex holding breath and “gritting” against the pain and yelling, or from injury to the heart itself.
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avatar GS650G says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:19

6.5 CM needed more than ever. Put that sectional density or whatever to work.
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avatar strych9 says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:20

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a shooting video like this where literally everyone involved is a total failstick.

First for everything since guess.
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avatar hairy smells says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:24

The Guy taking the Video was Black and wanted the LEO to shoot the guy. like it was racial even. If the guy had a stick why didn’t the officer just tackle him? and 12 rounds? he needs more training. 2 rounds to the body, if no effect then a round to the head. in other countries you have to account for where the rounds go.
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avatar Do Know Harm says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:27

I count about 7 seconds between the first shot and the subject hitting the ground “incapacitated.” I’d say that’s a very fast stop for chest shots and one couldn’t reasonably expect much better than that with any common handgun caliber. The only way to faster incapacitation is to disrupt the central nervous system with a brain or spinal cord injury.
At it’s simplest, I think it can be broken down like this…. For a body to function in an altercation, three things are needed:
1) the brain requires blood flow
2) muscles require input from the brain to function
3) muscles require skeletal structure for movement

Bringing a violent action to a stop requires interrupting one of those. Chest shots primarily work by #1… they poke holes in the heart or great vessels and prevent blood flow to the brain. The brain will keep sending signals to the muscles that keep the body attacking for a few seconds after loss of blood flow. Sure, bigger holes and more holes can speed that up that loss of flow, but it’s going to take a few seconds. A true center mass shot might also disrupt #2 by injuring the spinal cord (about a 1/4” wide target in the chest area) or #3 by disrupting skeletal integrity at the spinal column (about a 1.5-2” target in the chest, and fairly difficult to mechanically disrupt with any one shot.) Note that the arms will still function with a severed spinal cord or disrupted bony spinal column in the area of center mass.
Head shots disrupt #2. To really get instant incapacitation, this needs to be at the base of the brain, or around the level of the eyes. (The “T-box”.). If the brain can’t function, the body can’t fight.
Pelvis shots work primarily on #3. The pelvis and hips are big and when those bones are broken, the body cannot support it’s weight and so likely cannot attack with a melee weapon. There are a lot of vessels in the pelvis as well… but poking holes here is a very slow way to make a determined body cease attacking. Think minutes to hours.
Obviously that’s a bit oversimplified and applies only to the seconds during an altercation. Bullet holes can lead directly to incapacitation and death in many parts of the body. The time to get there depends on a lot of factors and the availability of medical/surgical care.
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avatar Michael Joseph Venia says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:56

I would like to see you be so rational in that type of situation Mr. ArmChair QB. It is well known that thinking goes out the door under a stress attack. Unless you train daily for this you will fail not matter what you think about caliber effeciency or shot placement.
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avatar Truckman says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:31

Well I carry a little 380 with jacketed hollow points and have no fear of their stopping ability with the testing of them and being I loaded them myself and they are a little hot in the powder load and the gun is a Russian made Makarov 380, not a 9×18
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avatar Truckman says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:40

wanted to add I like the power of the 45acp but my Colt is just too dang heavy and where I live it’s too hot to wear something that will cover a shoulder holster and also if you are around a lot of people you have to worry about the people around and behind the bad guy and with the gun, I carry not as big a problem and can use a belt holster
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avatar Elmer Fudd says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:38

That Deputy wasn’t going to win a race front peddling much less back peddling. You will note that the Deputy had already successfully blocked a bow from the stick using his forearm without serious injury. I could teach him techniques to block with less injury.
If I had been there, the perpetrator would have lived but he would have required the services of a proctologist to recover the broken pieces of his stick.
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avatar CC Ryder says:
February 8, 2021 at 12:59

Looking at the video. The guy had the look like he had to be on something. Wish that L.E.O. would have been carrying something with a little bit bigger with more zip. On the other if center mass isn’t going to the job done with the first ten then maybe try to take the apricot.
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avatar Billy G says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:17

Don’t forget bears have been killed with a 22 pistol, just have to hit in the right place!
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avatar American Patriot says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:22

That’s why I didn’t hear about it on the news…..White cop, White perp.
Nothing to see hear!
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avatar ChoseDeath says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:26

If you really wanna get pissed, listen to the commentary from the [bleep] [bleep] in the car. I wish he would have been Stickman.
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avatar Elmer Fudd says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:04

I’m almost certain that the [bleep] on your car giving commentary was Black. I wonder what his commentary would have been if your perp had been Black? That video would have provoked more rioting, looting, arson and murders.
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avatar ChoseDeath says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:53

$100,000 you’re correct. It’s a sad state of affairs. So much for treating everyone equally huh? I DO treat everyone equally, so [bleep] that guy in the car. He’s a piece of [bleep].
avatar RV6Driver says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:28

The cameraman is likely to win Worldstar’s “Golden Black and Mild” Award for best video documentation of someone who thought is was “whiteboy day” when it definitely wasn’t “whiteboy day…..”
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avatar J says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:31

While the Deputy probably should of shot sooner, this video dispels the flawed logic of magazine capacity restrictions.
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avatar MyFaultSomehow says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:46

That the person filming didn’t help the cop, or even move for their own safety, but stayed right in the middle of it to make racist commentary and upload it to the internet is quite possibly the most disgusting, offensive thing I have seen on the internet in a while.

I’ve seen people shot to death before, and I’ve seen people scared beyond reason doing some stupid-in-hindsight things, but the casual approval of the commentary..

Have you no compassion? No soul? No sense of decency? That this sociopath is running around collecting internet points on the same platforms that tell me *I* am the racist in this conversation just… what?
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avatar ChoseDeath says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:59

Well said. Turns out, all people are mostly the same and should be held to mostly the same standards. And the car guy is a disgusting excuse for a human being. [bleep] [bleep].
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avatar atavistic says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:55

Good shoot. About 3 seconds too late for my taste, but OK.

I’m sure there is an exhaustive list of why the guy lost his mind and endangered everyone. He didn’t get smoked because of his problems, he got smoked because he was a lethal threat acting in that capacity. White, Black, Red, Yellow, etc. is immaterial.
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avatar Coolbreeze says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:57

While this is fine to launch yet another caliber war (so lame at this point) and discuss style points, the officer only needed to do one thing: he eliminated the threat to the lives of the community. He did just that. Tada! He’s done for the day. If you want to award style points, do so because he is still breathing. He gets my respect for dealing with a deadly predator by wading in and risking his life. Yeah, I know he gets paid, pension, Yada, yada… still…respect.
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avatar Jonathan-Houston says:
February 8, 2021 at 13:58

So much for the “white privilege” myth. May we now expect chapters of White Lives Matter to spring up nationwide and go on asinine rampages in solidarity with this alleged victim of police brutality?
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avatar The Grey Man says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:11

This is why I carry a Shield 40….. Snappy but potent….
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avatar Montana Actual says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:11

Meh, his life doesn’t matter…
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avatar Loren J says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:14

I’m an FNX .45 double stack kinda guy when I’m on the street.
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avatar Michael Joseph Venia says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:52

Stupid to not go for the head after a couple rounds fail to stop him.
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avatar Mark H says:
February 8, 2021 at 14:59

Cell phone cameras are getting good. You can actually see the hits.

First two rounds – camera is off the subject
Next several – all strike low, (lower abdoman)
Last five were all in the thoracic cavity.
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avatar CGA says:
February 8, 2021 at 15:09

Basic failure drill: 2 to the body, 1 to the head. If two shots to the body don’t work, one shot to the head is next. Basic police firearms training, at least what I received in my training.
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The Negro,narrating the video,wanted to see the aggressor get shot because the Negro claimed the man had [white] privilege.

I'd be willing to bet if the aggressor was a Negro,then the Negro narrating the video would have claimed the cop shot an unarmed African American who only had a stick.

Shoot his ass.

Wish he’d have put one or two out of that mag in his face. Thought the creep was about lurch any second on top of him.

The first several rounds had NO affect on the perp, like the officer was firing blanks. Too weird! Could this have been staged?

9mm,,,UNLIKE Porsches, have plenty of substitutes

Some critters don't die as fast as we would wish. Be prepared to shoot 'em to the ground. Everyone should practice the Bill Drill and the Failure Drill religiously. I too am a big fan of face shooting and shooting on the move.


mike r

I never did care for the 9mm. I honestly cannot understand why they're so popular. I certainly wouldn't want to get shot by one, but the fact remains that there are far better choices.

Out of work Antifa retires by cop.

That guy was fugged up and wobbly before he started taking hits. No CNS, busting a hip joint or whatever, I seriously doubt it would of mattered what you shot him with. He didn't show reaction until his blood pressure took a [bleep].

That jacob blake took most of mag and still with us.

lol

Hyped up, adrenalin, drugs, who knows.

Drugs and/or a severly phugged up mental status can do that. Pain only "hurts" if you feel it! Not as though a 9mm pistol nor other service pistol round has much if any "stopping power" This aint Hollywood and short of CNS hit a 9 or 45 aint necessarily gonna drop instantly or throw a man back several feet. Dude was probably dead on his feet after the first several center mass hits, he just didnt know it!

The lack of any reaction at all until he went down is spooky. The sorry part is the officer will likely be judged for not taking out his legs. Makes me think my 7 rd P9 may need to go down the road.

Most of the shots were below the waist. They would have had to break bones to put him down immediately. It looks like the cop was just trying to stop him, not kill him until that didn't work.

Crazy and full of adrenaline. That's a difficult combo to overcome.
Wonder what rounds the LEO was shooting. Looked like he got some center mass hits, based on blood in guys mouth and attempts to breath.
Can't wait for the keyboard experts start talking about what the LEO should have done. If they've never been in a situation like that, they've got nothing worth hearing.

What was on the dead guys shirt? Looks like a raccoon riding a seagull?

Seems appropriate.

Huhhh?

From the holes that can be seen in the perps shirt, it looks like the SO got at least three good COM hits, breastplate high, right on the midline. Wonder if we will ever know what the perp was on when this occurred. My guess, meth and painkillers, but it could also be Tylenol and psychosis or lots of other stuff. That perp had almost no reaction til he went down. Unreal.

Yeah. I didn't get that either. The cop was blasting the fugg outta center mass.

That dude was down inside of about 10 seconds and dead around 20.

Should have just shot him in the leg...

Wonder if he was loaded with LE ammo or if he had RNs
After last year I wouldn't be surprised to see stupid town councils only buy Ball ammo..

I have seen some amazing stamina from those on PCP.

That smile was creepy

Looked like the shots were to the belly and the chest. Unreal that he could still stand up for so long.

crack boom pow ice pcp


lol

Hell, I had an antelope run 100 + yards with it's lungs blown out with a 7mm RM.

But it wasn't smiling like that.

I had to look up and make sure Jerry Heller was still dead

HAHA

That guy looks just like an old Battalion Chief I had years ago, great man and co-worker.

The shots came fast and it didn’t take long for him to go down. The Hollywood notion of dropping or being flung backwards is an exceedingly rare occurrence. I’ve seen more guys take multiple rounds without reaction than I’ve ever seen of one dropping, unless there’s a CNS hit.

A hopped up human can absorb a lot of lead just like a hopped up bear can.

If you’re not shooting you’re moving, if you’re moving you’re reloading. (JC?)....in this case shooting and scooting was a smart move. I and my family practice for this exact situation. Shooting on the move, reloading, clearing a jam, etc are best left to well defined muscle memory.

I’ve seen enough death to last me 100 lifetimes but watching someone struggle in their final seconds as the hemo-pneumo chokes him and his volume depletes makes me sick to my stomach. I guess all the death and dismemberment has made me softer, not harder, thank God!

Wonder if the deputy was shooting ball fmj ammo

I'd take that bet.

LOL, funny timing, just a few days ago a old buddy that's not into guns called and told me he wanted to buy a handgun with knockdown power...............I said there isn't any son......whaaat?

Told him 12 gauge and/or 308!

'2 to the chest 1 to the head makes the azzhole dead, Dead,DEAD"

He kept it on his face right though the death rattle.

Why waste two to the chest

It wasn't a messy shoot
No big deal IMHO.

He won't do that again.

Regardless of the situation, there's a man meeting his ends.
Don't like to see that.

Creepy smile!

Leo is lucky that stick didnt knock his gun down the road.

"That's what his ass gets"

Damn! He was like a,,,,,,,,,,

Like a zombie!!!!

Well, so much for being pissed off.

Strange that on a hunting forum there are so many people who don't know first hand how bullets kill

I bet he would have fell with a shot to the knee.

Dat's whut I likes to see. Mutha F*****g right.

A lot of lessons there.

1. A pistol is not a magic wand.

2. Space is your friend. A dead man can cover more distance than you realize.

3. Capacity matters.

4. Only CNS hits count for an instant stop.

I don't think donut eater could of pulled that off one handed while walking backwards.

Ayoob ?

A boob? He didnt have boobs.


And he wont have enough guts to do that again.

They do magic when under the hide

Two words...

Fo


Five

I am assuming he was shooting a 9mm.

I believe a .45 acp would have been a different story.

If the LEO was shooting RN FMJ’s the bad guy’s lack of reaction is not surprising in the least. Shoot a small animal, like a rabbit, coon or coyote with that crap and see how useless they really are. CNS hits will kill quickly but a center mass hit will leave you wanting something better.

Well said. That sums up the lessons.

You have to wonder, however, if a .45 would have been more effective. US Forces in the Philippines fighting the Moro natives had similar results to what we see here using handguns of the same caliber, but when our retired inventories of .45 Colt revolvers were degreased and sent out to our forces there, they reported a very noticeable improvement in stopping power. No longer were the natives continuing to charge and slice solders up after taking multiple center mass hits.

I believe that’s the worst reaction to the covid vaccine I’ve seen yet!!!

Oh that’s hilarious right there. Good job.

The harder the impact, the bigger the hole.....

That's how =ucktards commit suicide now a daze.
The freak had something inside his shirt though.

The OP's post has to be the world record for longest.

One thought to consider: If that guy with the stick would have been the black man shooting the video, the poor cop would be sitting in a jail cell right now. OK to shoot white guys attacking you, but not black guys.

And there were instances in WW ll when the fighting got particularly nasty and close, men threw down their 30 carbines and drew there 45's

What caliber were they using before the .45 Colts were reissued?

Insurance when you're all hopped up on adrenalin and not aiming like you would on a nice sunny day at the range. I can't imagine having to actually think/function while your body is dumping that much adrenalin into your system all at once. Sad situation but glad the PO is ok. Could've easily been a trajedy if the perp had a different weapon.

.38’s of some flavor iirc.

Leaning more towards K2. That effect happens often. I've seen it take 4 officers to take down someone on K2. K2, otherwise known as Spice, can make someone zombie like and impervious to pain.

The .45 is Coming Back to the Military

By Major Van Harl, USAF Ret.


I hope most remember the old TV serious Gun Smoke that was on the air for the first half of my life and now is seen in reruns. The opening scene was Marshal Matt Dillon pulling his Colt Single Action Army .45 six-gun and shooting some off screen bad guy. The 45 caliber handgun was the same type issued to the US Army and Navy in 1873.

To be quite honest it put big holes in whoever was on the receiving end. In the gun world we call that stopping power. When you are in the business of enforcement of the law, whether as a cop or a soldier, sometimes you just need to put an end to a dangerous situation right now. "Cost of stopping the bad buy before he does you harm, so you can go home to your family--priceless."

In the late 1890s when we were at war in the Philippines the Army had switched to a DA .38 Long Colt caliber revolver. We were facing a new type of enemy, the Muslin extremist, the Moro. They were known to use native drugs that inhibited the sensation of pain. This meant that when they went into battle with US soldiers and got shot by a rather anemic .38 caliber revolver it just did not reliably stop the Moro. After numerous US deaths, old Colt 45 revolvers, long in storage back in the States, were rushed to the Philippines and issued to the troops.

Even hopped-up Moros were unable to disregard the pain of a 45 round, no matter how big a dose of native pain killer they had taken. This situation lead the Army to hold the Thompson-LaGarde Test in 1904 and what they did was shoot live cows to see what effect different calibers of ammunition had on the animals. (That makes sense only if you are going to war with a herd of steers and, in the event, no pistol caliber proved an efficient steer killer.) I am not sure our current Department of Defense could get away with that in the modern world. But it did not stop with cows. They also rounded up cadavers and hung them up for testing. The bodies were shot and the swing or lack of swing (a crude measure of momentum) that was generated by a particular bullet was noted.

Regardless of the scientific and practical irrelevance or just plain grossness of the testing, the results had a major impact on the military and law enforcement handguns for over eighty years. The US military decided to build a semi-automatic pistol in .45 caliber that would serve the GIs, Marines and Sailors through WW I, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. A few were even used in the first Gulf War.

Many a WW II recruiting poster had some strapping young American warrior holding his Colt, 1911 .45 acp pistol and pledging his life to defend the nation. The 1911 Colt was deemed so important for use in WW I trench warfare, that an attempt was make to arm every American troop on the front line with a handgun. When they could not make enough semi-auto pistols, the Army had Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers manufactured in the same caliber.

After WW II, NATO was formed and this meant weapons and ammunition were standardized by the different country's armies and navies. The US forced all the countries to use our types of rifle ammunition, but only Denmark was using a 45 handgun. For the most part the rest of Western Europe was using the 9x19 millimeter round that the Germans had adopted before WW I.

When I first came into the Air Force as a cop we carried .38 Special revolvers. These were significently more powerful than the old .38 Long Colt cartridge use in the Phillippines at the turn of the Century.

They had used 45 pistols in 1950s but by Vietnam era we were carrying .38s whether you were a cop on the ground or an air crew member flying into combat. The .38 Special was the industry standard in the civilian law enforcement world at that time, but it was not intended to be a front line combat handgun.

In the 1980s the entire Department of Defense converted to a Beretta 9x19mm pistol and that was suppose to be the end of discussion on handguns in the military. Many special united such as Marine Recon or Army Delta Force kept right on using the 45. The Army has announced that it plans to buy 60,000 new 45 caliber semi-auto pistols for its front line troops. Most likely it will be a more modern handgun than the venerable old Colt 1911 but whatever is chosen it will be a 45 caliber round coming out the business end of barrel. Aim high, shoot big-bore.

Agreed. I carry one all the time because it fits in my pocket.

But if I was carrying open, I'd rather have my DW Bruin or G40, both of which will accurately, and without excessive recoil, launch a 155gr XTP at 1,600 fps. No one is going to smile or move much after being hit with that in the upper midsection IMO.

Or 200’s at 1400fps. 😉

Ain't that the truth!
Used to tell students the pistol they are carrying is so you can fight your way back to the gun they should have brought in the first place.

38 Long Colt...125gr round nose lead bullet at about 900 fps. Sound familiar?

Yep like I said in a prior post on this thread...pain only hurts if you feel it! K2 or any number of drugs as well as a really phugged up mental status can make any sensation of pain non existant. Couple that with the drug or mental induced lack of fear and this can happen. Guy was probably "dead on his feet" after the first couple center mass hits but didnt know it until his body started shutting off due to hemorrhagic shock etc. Think how far many fatally hit game animals we shoot travel before falling over if the initial impact didnt deliver instant knockdown.

I want, what he's on!

Yep.

Biggest difference is we stop shooting after one solid hit.

Looked like suicide by cop to me.

Well if the cop was a cannibal he might have held off and not wasted that rib meat

Don’t know about cannibal but he sure looked like he never missed a meal.

.38 Long Colt, 150 gr. lead roundnose at 771 fps for 201 ft. lbs. of energy.

For the year book.

What were they shooting him with? 9mm or 6.5 Creed?

9mm or 270 same same. LOL

Wonder if whatever the ded guy was using would work for a tooth abscess?

I thought about getting someone to shoot me one time while waiting through a long weekend with an abscessed jaw tooth.

Why is it it always happens on a weekend???

I wasn't there but the perp presented a pretty easy head shot from the way it looked to me.

I don't know but I for darn sure remember the two times its happened to me!

My dentist parks in his spot behind the building and there I sit on his back steps. He says, well I guess we know which one it is now?

I'd been to see him the Thurs before with some pain, he checks it out, xrays etc, can't tell exactly what going on. No busted tooth and no decay.

Turns out the nerve just decided to die? Doc thinks its because that side of my lower jaw has been in contact with to many rifle stocks for too long.

I'll never know for sure but the only two teeth I've ever had problems with were the ones involved in my "cheek weld".

There are emergency dentists around now, if that happens to me again I'll be there with credit card in hand!

I think it was .38 Long Colt.

A couple people texted me offline about this and commented, so I figured I would make a few comments about this.

The person on the receiving end on the bullets certainly appeared to be either suffering from a mental health issue or under the influence of XYZ. It would be virtually impossible for the responding LE officer to know that in the heat of the engagement though. Meth psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia look very much alike. But that is a whole other conversation.

As far as the shooting goes, people who have not seen people shot have some extremely unrealistic expectations as far as what happens. The bad guy dropped around roughly (using my highly accurate timer, counting one one thousand, two one thousand, etc )4-5 seconds after getting center punched with pistol rounds. Short of getting a spine shot or brain shot, that was actually fairly quick incapacitation.

People have been known to run blocks with lungs filling with blood, a hole in their heart, etc. I was involved in an investigation where a guy who had been stabbed numerous times in the chest as well as shot in the throat with a .22 rifle (the bullet lodged against the spine but did no real damage). He ran 2 blocks before dying from his lungs filling with blood from the stab wounds.

This guy went over pretty quick. It would appear that he no longer had heart/lung function.

The bullets did their job. I don't know if a larger diameter would have made any difference. It would not have hurt, but frankly when looking at the video, once the deputy decided to fire, the bad guy never hit him again and he went down and was incapacitated in a 4-5 seconds.

So in a nutshell, when you break this down, the ammo worked fine and the Deputy's shots were where they were supposed to be. He put rounds on target and the guy dropped to well placed hits within seconds, never being able to continue his violent actions.

Pretty hard to be critical of that.

For inquiring minds,
The logo on his teeshirt might be a version of an Army logo for the 160th Special Operations Airborne Regiment known as the Nightstalkers

He must have been elite military at one time, then.

Couldn't tell if that was a duck and a goofy elephant or a Pegasus....

More details? Should white guys riot?

This makes me fear TapOut shirts!

I thought it looked like a flying goose.

Searched the crap outta flying goose/sun/logo/tee shirt, etc.

Came up with nuttin, gaveup, it's meaningless anyway.

Last minute thought was, I couldn't be the only one inquisitive enough to look this up, ran his name (Kevin Costlow) and the single word teeshirt.
First hit directed me right back to this thread lol..who'd of thunk it.

It was mentioned in the OP, way down deep in all those comments.

Then I just looked up logos used by the Nightstalkers, there's quite a few similar but this one looked the closest.

Still can't really put it together but everything points at it.

Exactly..

Hunters should know this ^^^^^^^^^^^^. A person can continue to fight 30 to 40 seconds with heart destroyed, no matter the cartridge.

Still, you have to wonder if a .45 Colt would have dropped him a little faster. That Moro tribesmen experience in the Philippines really stands out as a corollary to this clip. They were punching .355 caliber holes in them tribesmen, and still getting cut to ribbons by them before they dropped. Switch to .45 Colt, and no more performance complaints.

Trying to analyze todays incidents by reading what is basically folklore is pretty ridiculous.

The stories get told and retold and somehow become "fact". The whole "one 45 bullet did what 6 .38s could not, stop a Moro cold in his tracks" is based more in legends and sea stories that have been re-told than in actual documented proof. The .45 Colt ammo was still round nose ammo, which has a poor track record when it comes to instant incapacitation. The .45 round nose was far better than .38 round nose by a long shot, but it was not knocking Moros off their feet like stories seem to say.

Just like the old horsecrap about "They all fall to hard ball" nonsense of shooting people with 230 grain ball ammo in 1911s. Its BS. Round nose ammo has always been a terrible performer.

The 45 is great with the right ammo, but so is a 9mm, and in the above situation I doubt you would be able to tell much difference.





BTW, here is an example of a failure with the .45 ACP. During the gunfight, the officer shot the guy 14 times. 6 of which were considered fatal hits. in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney. But the bad guy still would not stop for a bit.


https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...nds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/


Some animals are simply hard to put down, that is a fact. That is why when people tell me how they will calmly place perfect shots into the heart with their 5 shot J Frame .38 and the bad guy will instantly fall over dead as a door nail, stone cold dead, and they will be the hero of the day, I just shake my head. It is pointless. You can lead an idiot to water but you can't make them think.



The short version is that once the deputy chose to shoot, he put rounds on target, and the bad guy dropped within seconds. I don't see much to be critical about. But as usual there are a bunch of Monday morning QB with absolutely zero experience who seem to know better, even though the most dangerous thing they have ever done is slip in the shower.

years back we had a cop shoot a guy with a knife in a grocery store twice in the chest with a 357 at close range and the guy just dropped the knife and stood there. Doubt anyone would believe a 357 as being underpowered

This is why the Marines in Afghanistan went to head shots.

The head is really hard to armor, and nobody survives multiple hits to the head with a service round, rifle or pistol.

Of course, the head is harder to hit (smaller and moving), and we're taught that the head is somehow of limits. Its not.

It's not the caliber of the weapon it's the placement of the bullet. A 100lb doe deer shot through both lungs at 200yds can still run 50+ yds when shot with a 660gr 50BMG. And a 55gr 22-250 will take the wind out of a deer shot broadside faster than a 300 win mag shooting 180gr NP. And another thing when you shoot a deer high in shoulder - backbone, in the white throat patch or behind the ear with a 22lr they drop instantly. Bigger isn't always better, brain or bone and you will usually see instant results. Common sense isn't very common any more.

I think Mr Sagebrush is the voice of reason. Read his posts again and learn.

I concur

There's statistics on that. In modern warfare the percent of combat small arms deaths attributable to head shots is something like 70% It's higher than you'd expect.

Agree 💯




Shots to the groin pelvic area are effective and easier to hit

Had a hunting bud who’s grandfather lost his right arm from elbow down to a Moro’s Kris. He stated once his grandfather told him they always tried for their head with A Krag. Said they wore makeshift armor from twined tree bark too, that was hard to get thru. He said bayonets also worked.

Roger that.
Bob

As always, it's easy to separate the players from the fans in these type threads.

Having shot my share of big pissed off critters looking to kill you with both .375 cal and .458 and greater cal...I will still bet my life on a .45 acp vs. 9mm luger. YMMV

I'm pissed my blatant attempt at trolling the 9MM Glockoids didn't pan out :0

Here you go Jorge. A pair of my preferred personal defense handguns. 😁😁😁.




Troll away! 😁😁😁

Those ain't Glocks so you get a pass

Thanks! The Mauser is loaded in my big wooden secretary desk a la Dashiell Hammett! 🤣

No. An old crusty range Sergeant. Went something like this.

"Used to be called the 'Mozambique Drill' now we can't call it that anymore so it's called a 'Failure to stop Drill.' If you are shooting them and getting hits and they aren't stopping remember this." He then made what initially looked like he was making The Sign of The Cross except the order was different. He went on, "I wasn't praying, I'm showing you where to shoot.
Two to the chest, One to the Head makes the azzhole dead, Dead, DEAD."

Thankfully Mac S. let the air out of the usual gasbags with simple facts. I find it amazing that so many old school myths are still believed. Unfortunately it gives the anti-boomers some pretty good ammo.


mike r

Ironically with the cooler weather (and small primer shortage) I have been carrying .45s a lot more as of late.

Currently I am carrying this old Pony.



It is far from optimal or cutting edge, but that is OK. With a couple of mags in a pocket or in a mag pouch and I really don't have too many concerns. If I travel to a larger metropolis for a trip of something then I may re-evaluate.

Sometimes you may not have the "ultimate" set of tools in the tool box, and that is fine, because you possess skill sets that are more important than hardware types.

I call it the John Wick drill.

Headshoot everyone.

I wouldn't say that guy exactly soaked up 12 rounds with little effect. He was dead after the 1st or 2nd shot. The cop just kept shooting to make sure.

ETA: I should have just +1 Mackay's post.

If that guy was a deer, I'd have quit shooting after the 1st round. He was done.

I live in Montgomery County, MD. My neighbor and his son are both regular County Police. Last May when this other shooting occurred, a lot of people on here were wondering what they use. So I texted my neighbor and asked him what they use now. I know that about 10 or 15 years ago they were using Glock 22's in 40 cal. He said that they were having trouble with them, so they switched to G17's and G19's in 9mm. I asked him what ammo, but he didn't specify. All he said was that they use the same ammo as the FBI. Probably some sort of nasty hollow point. I'm sure that the Sheriff's Dept. uses the same stuff as the regular County Police.

Here's the body cam video from last May. I had to post a link because Youtube won't let me post the actual video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdNdXT4Wshs

depends , some PHs still quickly brain an ele
Immediately after what seems like a good brainer
from the client...could even follow up with
another on what looks like a downed & 'dead'
beast.

Prevention is better than cure ..

I switched from .45 acp to 9mm for the capacity diff.
Figure the odds are a different type of criminal/ situation than in the old days.

Read: multiple bad guys per incident

.45 acp i run the old WW 230 +p sxt or whatever its called
9mm the Sig 124 gr jhp fodder.

Combat Commander or HK P30L.
Wish the latter was made in 10mm

That guy dropped down because he knew that's what people do who are shot. He could have closed the distance if he was determined to.

Anything more on the guys history?

I'll bet the Coroner thought that guy's chest looked like a waffle.

I hear there is a new Glock that will be chambered in 9.5 creedmore.
The new cartridge is supposed to be mana from heaven for self defense. Second only to God's personal glock which shoots lightning bolts.

Difference between me & a cop is that I don't have to hang around!

A couple rounds in the bad guy & I'm going to try to get out of there!

I have a friend who operates the county impound yard, he showed me a sheriff's Chev Blazer where the shotgun rack was physically torn from it's mountings, 4, 1/4" stainless bolts literally torn out of the metal dash above the drive tunnel. The sketchy details he gave me was the 180 pound 'kid' was on a cocktail of angel dust and meth, went berserk, picked up the 240 pound deputy, then dumped him over a 6' cyclone fence, ripped the locked shotgun out of the Blazer, damaged the shotgun so it wouldn't fire, turned and ran about 50 yards and keeled over dead, heart failure? That's some serious chemicals.

Not feeling good about my LCP loaded hot with 68gr Lehighs for the Moro Drill.

And you shouldn't.

I suggest you carry a real gun loaded with real ammo.

Excellent suggestion

He forgot to weave and bob....

If only Peter Falk were with him.

I carry a G17 first generation gun with 18 Speer Gold Dot +P loads aboard, and have 1-2 spare mags in reserve, everywhere, all the time. Adjusted my wardrobe to hide the gun, rather than adjusting the gun to fit what I felt like wearing. You do not get to pick the fight, the fight picks you. Having to fight a big fight with a little gun is no fun at all.

I figure 35-50 rounds should at least get me back to the house, truck or whatever is holding my rifle. If not, I was never going to make it, anyway. And The Mozambique drill has been a staple for the last 20+ years in my routine. If I have to shoot you, and you don’t fall down and lay still before I can, you get at least three rounds. Any bad guy is worth at least that...

No chit. They're fast lil'fuukers. LOL

Let that dude get within 30' and you better have your heater in hand and ready for work or he's gonna lop your head off with that nasty looking blade.

Stopping power is a myth, it's all about shot placement.

I've seen what a .22 Mag does to someone when put in the right spot!

Mike

Stopping power....
So many movies where people go flying backwards....
Fairy-physics...

Start watching at 1:25 for a couple of examples.

So that’s where the terrible skinny jean idea came from?