I read all over the internet that Federal, Hornady, etc. are all working overtime producing ammo. Yet none of it ever appears at Graf's, Midway, Natchez, Fleet Farm, etc. Where is it? How is it off the market before it is ever on the market?

No one can help you. If you don't understand now, you never will.

Demand exceeds production.

Kinda like peeps at Easter time.


After Easter you can get em 50% off at the DG.

So I get hoarding and all that but how are the hoarders getting it? Do you know anyone buying directly from the plants?

Had an assortment of shotgun shells at Walmart tonight. Picked up a couple boxes for a bud that is actually shooting some. They also had probably 20 boxes of rifle ammo. First I’d seen there in months.

Girl at academy says they get deliveries 3 days a week with ammo. On those days the line forms at 8. The doors open at 9. Sold from the customer service desk, never put on the shelf. Ammo is gone in the first wave.

The ammo is being sold, but it’s got millions of gun owners seeking it out and it’s gone before you ever knew it existed.

Cheesy got it right.

No proof,

I bet some tech savvy folks made scripts that scour online sellers 24/7.

Buy up stuff within seconds of being in stock.

It's really a simple supply and demand ammo. When supplies run low, that's when the scalpers swoop in to make a killing. They will clean vendors out the instant vendors get new stock in, then sell it for an obscene profit to people who can't find any because the scalpers cleaned them out. If consumers would just stop buying, this would resolve itself in short order.

Fear there will be a war... crazy new ammo taxes... another mass murder etc.

Greed that flipping ammo will pay for a new bass boat, fast cars and fast women.

100 million gun owners stampeding to snag every round they can.

Pure math.

Pure human nature.

There are old retired farts with nothing to do standing in every store waiting for something to be put on the shelf so they can scarf it up and resale it toy you at ridiculous prices on gunbroker or at the gun show. Stop buying from these jackholes and there will soon be ammo on the shelves again.

It’s filling untold numbers of months old backorders before you and Wally Cleaver ever see it pop onto the online available inventory.

Can you expand on this, please? Asking for a friend.

You are not wrong, but people NOT buying ammo from flippers... is like a fat secretary NOT eating the last donut.

Ain't gonna happen.

I've also noticed that current store ammo had risen in price also. Example, I was in my local sporting goods store today too pick up a handgun I purchased on The Fire and shipped to them as my FFL. While I was there I noticed they had 243 ammo in stock, Winchester, the price was $72 a box of 20? The guy looked in the computer and showed me their cost was $62. (Pass) Same about a year ago $30 a box.
They did have Winchester Super X 180gr powerpoint in 308 for $30 a box. Had to by a couple boxes of that.
They had a ton of 307 and the guy never heard of 307 before.

Honey Bunny will let you ALMOST get to second base for a movie and Raisinetes...

But riding the bucking pony... requires a movie, Raisinetes, dinner and 20" spinners on mag wheels.

Gotta flip 200 rounds of 9 for dat.

The ammo that showed up to the store yesterday had been ordered for 8 months.

lol

I waited about 14 months for a small cache of 300 Savage Superperformance. I should’ve just bought dies and brass. But I sort of forgot about that rifle and that backorder. Then got an email notification one day out of the wild blue

I’ve gotten taxidermy back in less time 😃

Was in a buddies hardware store back in the fall. He said he’d placed a $50k ammo order. ETA was a year. This was October or so.

Was it Vista that said they had a Billion and half dollar backlog of orders a few months ago?

I believe youre right. Seen that too somewhere.

A day doesn't go by...

I can tell you when you have a shipment of ammo show up and fills the shelf’s. People think they have to buy every available bullet on it. Some need it most don’t and others do it to gouge people. It’s people that causes it nothing else! People don’t learn from years past when times like what’s going on now has happened always stay ahead of the game not behind.

Scalpers:

https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/fw-gun-show.103710/

"Just thought I’d share my experience of the Fort Worth gun show this weekend as I hadn’t been to one in about a year and a half.

The Bad -More ammo than I’ve even seen at a gun show and it was ALL price gouged. Shameful stuff.

The Good - Firearm selection was good, with fair prices across the board. Mostly modern offerings at fair prices. Not many of the tables with 10 old guns at exorbitant prices. Good surplus parts selections. No beanie baby or candle setups. The best thing was the aisles were about 50% wider than normal so you weren’t bumping into people all the time.

I didn’t buy anything, but did enjoy myself quite a bit and helped a friend that is looking for a new house gun at least get a chance to handle several candidates."

Maybe it's time for someone to start an ammo manufacturing company. Raise some capital and buy the tooling, etc.

Well that's the biggest thing, but most talk out of one
side of their mouth about not paying gouge prices
all the time reaching for their credit card

It's been happening since the. 22 " shortage " some
years back, but every time I'd discuss it with someone
they'd get all indignant and swear up and down that
the gubmint was buying up the. 22 lr to keep us from
getting any of it. Any suggestion that regular people
would grab up all the ammo for themselves was too
far out of a notion for some to process I guess

Yep, same deal as the last two "shortages"--which were also caused by political buying-panics.

This one will also disappear when those who believe they don't have "enough," buy enough to reduce their fears--or exceed their credit-card limit. At that point those who bought up a bunch of stuff to resell won't be able to sell for the price they bought it for.

It's a lot like the stock market, the ups and downs resulting from the classic combination of fear and greed.

Fairly good article on this in the recent NRA American Rifleman magazine.

VERY TRUE...

After the "Last Time" I picked up a pallet a 22 long rifle well below Market Value.

Split it up with a couple of friends.

The gougers were in a panic to sell. It was very satisfying.

But this one may be different.

Each man has to make his own decisions.

People are buying and hoarding ammo. The factories can't keep up.

Also of note, Gun production is at such a pace that ammo production cannot keep up.

For example, Ruger, Prescott, is running two 12 hour shifts, 3:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. in their plants, 24 hours a day.

They are turning out 500 units of 5.7 a day. Not to mention all the other auto's they build there.

That pales in comparison that Glock is turning out 100,000+ units a month.

By the time these guns reach the retailer, they are flying off the shelves.

No end in sight that I can see anyways.

Reading these constant posts about ammo and component shortages is no different than watching a house fly banging against a window all day. Let them out and they will come back in and try banging against the window again.

No mystery to the shortages, just puzzling why these idiots can’t see what is happening. You would think this is the first time this ever happened.

A large amount of the population were to stupid to plan ahead but of course you cuckold dumb as see will still be wandering around with your beaks in the air

I'm guessing that most of the production goes to fill backorders. Many of the retailers don't even take backorders any more because they're so backed up that they can't handle any more. It's all sold long before it reaches them.

As I said before .....ammo is the new toilet paper.

Let me tell you what happened to me yesterday. Was at BPS, they had 4 boxes of 100rd 45acp target loads..winchester. I just wanted one. I was waiting on associate, a girl pulls up with a stroller...was not even good lookin, gets on the phone I assume asking her hubby about ammo, associate finally comes up...I let her go first be all chivalrous....she got all 4 boxes of 45, I asked her and associate if I just have one of them. She just took them and walked away. I'll never hold a door open,etc for a woman again outside my wife or mother....

well for one thing, government orders are shuttling a LOT of brass, primers, powder and bullets out of the sports part of the market. Component makers are putting those orders at the head of the line.
A lot of naïve folks will tell you it's 'market demands' due to a lot of new gun owners but that is mostly BS. This shortage was contrived, controlled and will continue.

Maybe, but I think those guys are more likely to be welfare types. I retired almost eleven years ago, when I knew I’d have enough coming in that I wouldn't have to scramble for crumbs. The game they’re playing resembles work too much for me; get up early, commute to Whatamart, stand in line, then stand in line to pay, then on to the next one, weekends traveling to gun shows...... No thanks! I’m much too busy doing Pappy Stuff.

Be interesting to know how much they actually make after costs are considered, let alone the time invested. I suppose if you consider it a hobby, the time can be written off as recreation, but none of that seems like much “fun” to me. By comparison, picking up cans along the road or dumpster diving seems positively rewarding; at least you’d be movin’ your azz a bit. Maybe there's some special thrill they get from stickin’ to others.

Yeah I don't buy that horse chit either. I might be inclined to believe that a flood of new gun buyers concerned for their safety caused a shortage of ammo in a few types like 9mm, 45 acp or .223, etc. But the main shortage in my area is hunting ammo in calibers like 7mm-08, 25-06 and even 30-30. Am I really expected to believe that 7 million new gun owners all went out and bought a lever action 30-30 as their first gun for home or personal defense? Or a bolt action 25-06? Really? I'd be scared to let a moron dumb enough to believe that horse chit drive me across town.

Ok guys I can understand the ammo and components shortage I guess but my nephew bought a 7-08 and is gonna reload. No dies available at that time anywhere he or I looked. You guys trying to say both people who bought a 7-08 bought up all the reloading dies on the internet. Gotta call bs on this and a lot of other things that are out of stock. Edk

Once Vista spools up Remington it should improve some...

ERK, maybe look for used dies?
But I was able to find higher demand dies in December.
I had lots of offers for 222 dies from guys on here around that time.

This is exactly what happens here in Amarillo. I talked to the Walmart and the Academy Sports and they said when they get ammo in the same guys are there every time and they snatch it all up and they told they are all old retired guys. I suggested that they stop stocking ammo at the same time and on the same day and stagger it out throughout the week to deprive them of their ability to do that. Fell on deaf ears.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/guns/scalpers-driving-up-ammo-prices-and-ammunition-shortage/

First 20 guys in the local sporting goods store- "Oh my, there is no .223 or .308 or 7.62x39 or 9mm or .45 ACP on the shelf, I better buy what I can so I can at least shoot something, oh look, here is some 7-08 and 25-06 and 30-30, I'll just buy some of that instead, at least I'll have it to deer hunt with"




Next 20 guys in the local sporting goods store and online "oh my, there is no 7-08 or 25-06 or 30-30 ammo anywhere, I better buy reloading dies so I can at least load my own"

Next 20 guys "oh my, there are no components available, but I just got an email alert from Grafs saying they have primers and some powder so I better buy everything they allow me to"

Next 20 guys "hey you guys on this internet forum, where is all the ammo going?"

Ammo is available at a decent retail price for the day and age at certain places if your willing or able to play the game.
And it's a hit or miss thing on what is available.

Better than paying obscene resale scalper prices even if it is basic capitalism getting what people are willing to pay.

Pretty good piece. Makes it clear it’s not just one thing causing it, but a perfect storm of actions and circumstances, AGAIN!

I just have to wonder, when this one’s over, how many will take action to not get caught again, and how many will slide back into being the grasshopper from the fable? Perhaps being a “victim” of events brings some sort of perverse satisfaction of its own, like women who go from one abusive partner to the next. There has to be some reason for that mentality too.

Just talked to a friend of mine down the road. He and his kids went to Harrisonburg Virginia 2 weeks ago for the gun show. Apparently the line was out the door and they were not willing to wait to get in.

Older gentleman parked near them was likewise overwhelmed by trying to get through the crowd to get inside to sell his ammo.

Offered to sell them his ammo directly.

$20 a box on 9 mm and Bricks of 22 rifle for $10 each.

I think they bought everything he had.

They did not however actually make it in the show to acquire beef jerky and a camouflage dream catcher... so obviously there was some disappointment.

Don't claim to have all the answers but I understand the shortage . Year and 1/2 -2 years a go nobody was panicked about buying ammo they just bought what they thought they needed for the season or immediate use. The short sighted view because that is the way they have allways done it. There have allways been more than a few of us who really enjoy burning ammo thru our various firearms on a regular basis so we keep supplied on a regular basis knowing all the time what we need in ammo or supplies to make ammo were mostly in good shape inventory wise. The short sighted types call us " hoarders". Our ammo goes out the barrel at a pretty regular rate so we buy lots of components and ammo we don't load. So that in a neat orderly proficient matter our guns go bang on a regular basis. Keeping up with the normal demand and supplying it were no problem for the ammo manufacturers. Overtime is damned expensive and cuts into your profit margin as a business expense so they don't work overtime when there is no excessive demand , to stockpile ammo that is not selling. Year out from the 2020 election and rhetoric is heating up. The left hates guns the dumb ideological turds think guns kill people , never ever forget this. The rest of us exist in reality and understand that a gun is a tool that takes a human being to operate a gun to kill people. You have to hold that person responsible not the tool. Simple really. We watched a whole spring and summer of violent protests, looting, arson , vandalism , robbery and burglary by leftist organizations while the LEO types stood around with their thumbs up their ass as they were ordered to do so by their leftist politicians. Seeing all this every nite on the news makes everyone with half an ounce of sense very nervous. So they go and buy some ammo for the 22 or the 12 ga. A lot of people pull their head out and buy their first gun for protection. Watching some bunch of ass clowns burn down their house or business is not going to happen on their watch. They buy ammo to learn how to shoot or "just in case". 8-9 million new owners of firearms and an increasing amount of more firearms by people who are allready firearms owners because of the political unrest caused by the left. All of a sudden in the time span of 6-8 months people who sell ammo and guns have it flying off the shelf and wholesalers with their hands in the air saying we don t know when will get more. Ammo manufacturers turning up the pace of production but facing key component shortages that slow or stop product lines. The manufacturers are working to pump out the product as fast as they can (they like making money) just like the rest of us do. In business you take care of back orders first on the catch up game. When a lot of us see oddball low demand cartridges on dealer shelves it's that they were availible and ammo dealers will sell whatever they can get
Some cartridges are low demand and they only make them once or twice a year or every 2 years. Remington runs off 300 Savage and 35 Remington just passed thru here in the last 3 weeks if you didn t get any your fugged to scalper prices. The government has big orders with manufacturers for 5.56, 7.62, and pistol rds. Government orders needed or not allways take precedence over sporting ammo. This reduces the amount of production for civilian use. Then there is old guys like me retired on fixed income who all of a sudden see a chance to buy low, sell high and make some extra cash the IRS don' t get their hands on. Most of you fault them for engaging in a practice as old as prostitution. For trying to meet their anticipated monetary needs. All for ONE reason it 's because you failed to do preplanning to meet your ammo needs and buy the components to keep you shooting or for hunting with your firearms. Your total or partial lack of responsibility to your selves is the fault no matter how you cut it. I've engaged in helping friends and acquaintances in getting the stuff they need to load or ammo to shoot but that doesn't include selling the stuff I have for my own use. So in the nutshell it's really simple if you don t have what you need it's because you failed in your responsibility to keep your self supplied with what you need. The day you can buy what you want, when you want for what you want to pay is GONE long fugging gone
Not just ammo either try to buy some canning lids as well. Magnum_Bob

Amazing to me how many people complain in the first half of their post but then finish the post with “they did have xyz at a decent price so I went ahead and bought it”

On the reloading equipment and components... lots of new people going to reload cuz ammos hard to get. I foresee and not-too-distant future lots of cheap equipment new or Barely Used. Reading some of the stuff or actually a lot of the stuff on the Facebook reloading groups the average IQ of the renew reloader is bumping retard requirement

No, but the thousands who already have 7-08s and had to scramble for ammo for hunting season might just have decided to become less dependent on factory ammo. Same goes for those who might already be handloading, but never bothered to load 9mm, 7.62x39, or .223 because the cost was so low it wasn't worth their time and effort. I had a Hell of a time assembling the stuff required to load 9s myself, but I got it done, and didn’t pay through the nose for any of it. When my factory ammo is gone, I can fill ‘em back up and keep shooting.

Don’t know if stuff like presses, scales, etc are also in short supply, as I have those and ain’t looking.

Two words are really all that are needed to explain the situation: fear and greed. Fear drives the demand, greed takes advantage of it. Until the market gets flooded enough so that the greedies have no customer the crap will continue to stink.

17 million guns bought in 2020. Each owner buys 40 rounds? That's 680 million rounds.

Production would be simpler if instead of 1,783 different chamberings and bullet weights/styles, they could trim that down just a touch. But nobody would want that.

Yep.

And don't forget the people buying bricks of primers because they're "prepared." Yet these are the same guys that haven't fired 1000 rounds total in 20 years....yet now have 10,000 primers in their closet.

Hey Chief - see you are retired CPO. I agree somewhat about the "old retired guys" but I can say that is not the big issue or at least not the only issue. I'm retired and have never stood in line and seem to be doing ok through all this "ammo/component" shortage. Personally just bought a 25-06 and waiting for it to arrive. Never had a .25 cal anything so started three weeks ago trading - dealing - and in some cases buying ammo and components to load. Yep already had the powder and primers but the point is if someone wants or needs ammo; then spend less time whining and more time hustling what they need. I did and frankly most of what I accumulated for the 25/06 came from this forum. While there are some who have listed items at ridiculous prices, most on here are reasonable and even helpful. I am as understanding and sympathetic as anyone but the reality is a lack of preparation on their part does not create an emergency on my part.

Gotta wonder if people are standing in line to buy whatever they can and relisting it on gun broker...

Our economic model in this country has changed from warehousing to a just in time production model. It works pretty well until there is a sudden surge in demand for an item or series of items.

The great toilet paper shortage of 2020 really baffled me.

Everybody’s looking, so it ALL disappears

Just tell him all the factories ran out of bang and the factory producing the supply of bang is behind in production due to covid.

It’s like trying to win a radio contest. Everybody is trying to be the fifth caller. Somebody succeeds.

My buddy paid $700 for 1000 rounds of 9mm. He proclaimed what a great deal he got ...🙄 people are already accepting these prices as the new normal

That's the scary part. If these tards keep paying the prices they'll never come back down for the rest of us.

-Jake

Fleet & farm local had large pistol magnum primers this AM 4.79/100 limit 3 boxes picked them up for my neighbor for 45acp loads. They factory 30-06 Remington 150 & 165 gr loads limit 2 boxes per customer 19.99 a box. Not as cheap as wallyworld but they don't have sh*t.

Trump will be back as President before this ammo [bleep] will slow down.

Pretty much spot on here. But it sure is a bad time for a guy who thought he had every caliber/ long gun he would ever need to buy a new caliber he doesn't have brass, dies or ammo for. Damn my bad luck. Had to have a new Christensen-Arms in .300WM and 6.5CM. Just couldn't wait.

I agree...

Dang gasoline isn't $0.99 a gallon anymore either cause folks keep buying it at almost double and triple of that.

I ain't buying no more gasoline until it gets back to under a dollar.

You can ask any ammo hoarder on this site, it has nothing to do with ammo hoarders. They'll tell ya.

I don't disagree that fear is driving the demand, but one man's greed is another man's capitalism. It seems pretty left wing to me to demonize a man for making money off the market. Unless you are feeding your family (and most if not all here are not) ammo is not a "necessity" for survival, and I, for one would not want local, state, or federal government intervening in the market. I get that legally owning guns and ammo is a right and is central to our way of life, but we should be careful what we wish for as far as gouging lest big brother decides to "help "us regulate prices in times of market disruption. If you don't like the "gouger" or "scalper" prices, don't pay them and contribute to continuing shortages. Eventually, supply and demand will again become balanced and prices will stabilize. Will, it go back to pre-panic prices? I doubt it, but you should prepare yourself for inflation on food, energy, and about every other product and service out there.given the current state of politics here. You can't keep printing money and expect it to buy the same basket of goods. And until our economy is back on track, real wages will not keep up.

As to the conspiracy theorists who believe the government is preventing the manufacture of 7-08, 30-30, and 25-06, I have a different view. Ammunition manufacturers are capitalists too. If they can sell every 223, 308, 9 40, and 45 round they make and the pent up demand is larger there, that is what they will make. They don't have different plants for every caliber, the mix is based on what maximizes profitability. Some bean counter such as myself has neat little formula that dictates what that is.

Do government contracts limit commercial productions? Sure they do. The purchasers of 50 million rounds at a time and government contract provisions get preference even over the larger commercial purchasers. However, for damn sure the government ain't buying anything but the typical military calibers. The manufacturers are allocating their limited production capacity to the most in demand cartridges, which anecdotally are likely 223 and 9, Running that equipment 24/7 involves OT, maintenance on the fly, and other increased costs. That manufacturer is not going to eat that cost. It will be passed on to the wholesaler, retailer, and customer. The retailer has less to sell in these times and is looking to make his monthly nut (salaries, rent, utilities, taxes, etc) and is trying to make it up somewhere. If they can't get as many guns or as much ammo to sell, how can they survive without raising prices? The alternative is that most LGS will go out of business. Again, I, for one, don't want my only choices to be BPS/Cabela's or Academy.

Is it unfortunate that some people have to pay really high prices? Of course it is and I have some empathy for them. However, there are still supplies out there at reasonable prices. In the last 6 months. I have bought dies, brass, powder and bullets for 2 new calibers (35 Rem and 45-70) from both commercial and private sources without paying "gouger" prices. Today, I bought 5 boxes of bullets from 3 different retailers at "normal" prices today and bought a pound of Shooters World powder and another box of bullets earlier in the week from yet another retailers. I didn't camp out or wait in line, I just added LGS stops to other errands. I bought what I wanted sometimes taking the last box and sometimes leaving boxes on the shelf. They will be used and it is not my responsibility to compensate for someone else's lack of foresight nor is it theirs to compensate for mine. Do I get my first choice like Varget? Nope, I make do with what I can and substitute as necessary. I have had fun developing new loads in several calibers out of necessity.

The only thing I haven't been able to buy has been primers. Fortunately,I planned ahead and have a decent supply, but if this goes much over two years, I will be in trouble there as well. The manufactures are not going to sell primers and components at a lower margin when they can make loaded ammunition to sell at higher margins. They owe us nothing and have a fiduciary duty to maximize the return of their shareholders.

You can piss and moan all you want about "boycotting": these SOBs when things return to normal, but it floors me that everyone all of a sudden is anti-capitalist when it affects their pocketbook. The reality is governmental regulation, litigation, and poor business practices have decreased the number of ammunition and component makers to just a few and you are unlikely to be able to boycott all of them or even some of them. As for the gouging sellers, they are likely the only ones who will make it through so likely you will have to deal with them also. I understand the frustration, but free market conservatives/ 2A supporters generally don't begrudge those making a legal profit. Suck it up and pay the prices. do the work to find supplies at more reasonable prices, or sit it out until prices normalize. We all have the same choices.

Flame away.

Regards,

Kris

This video from Nosler says what you think, estimated 8-9 million NEW gun owners, panic buyers no mega orders from the gummint. When there is demand they chase it. The new gun owners bought 9mm, 223/556, .308 etc. so that is where the ammo demand went. The component makers followed that same demand.They will eventually get back to the less mainstream calibers. IN the meantime I'll reload if I really want to go out and shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzZgGChsyDI&t=8s&ab_channel=ColionNoir

You dash along thinking that all you have is go to your local walley world and all of the problems are ok, never had to live thru times of strife wondering why the world is wrapping on you

Stuff shows up but you gotta be there when it does .picked up a brick of CCI BR-4 PRIMERS TODAY FOR $65/ brick. Limit 1.per customer just got lucky I guess. Mb

Good contribution

i was in 3 stores over the weekend. one store had awhole bunck of 223 and 9mm ammo, a mixing of some other common stuff. second store had much the same but did say they are kpeeing a bunch of ammo in the back so when people buy a gun they can sell them a box or two of ammo to shoot from it. 3rd store had a prety large selection of powder and primers and bullets in all but 30 cal. they had big signs over the powder one pound per week and were keeping a sales log. owner says he has turned folks away when they come in da after day to buy a can of powder, also says he knows the same folks probably have their wives and friends come in and buy it, but he is trying to do what he can to ake sure everyone ahs a chance to get stuff

I was in a Walmart up north this week. Witnessed exactly what you spoke of. An older gentleman walked out of store with two new ammo cans, looked like American Eagle but I did not get a good read. So, I walk to the sporting goods and virtually no ammo on shelves. Something is awry here and wrong!