Anyway, here is an interesting study done showing the cleanliness of oil on the first service oil change of motorcycles from various manufacturers. Except for China - they really do make total crap - the results are kind of surprising, particular the Royal Enfields from the new plant in India. Worth the 7 1/2 minutes if one is interested in this kind of thing.
*** Spoiler below video ***
For those that like spoilers, here are the results ranked from cleanest to dirtiest oil: 1. Royal Enfield 2. BMW 3. KTM 4. Yamaha 5. Kawasaki 6. Honda 7. Triumph 8. Suzuki 9. Harley Davidson 10. Aprilia 11. Ducati 12. Yin Xiang - these suck ass in a major way
Slightly off topic but I watch a youtube channel called Project Farm
This guy does alot of tests in regards to oil.
The one I recently watched he took a 30 year old motor oil called Arco that had graphite in it and compared it to modern Quaker state oil.
The Quaker State was superior in cold starting, but did not contain wear additives and was inferior to engine protection (except in cold starts) than the 30 year old oil with graphite. The Quaker State also resulted in a run time of 44 minutes and 30 seconds versus 44 minutes and 10 seconds on a motor test, so the claims of increased fuel efficiency , at least compared to 30 year old motor oil are true, not so much for engine wear. The older oil did have a noticeable evaporation compared to the modern oil which might lead to a discussion on modern motors not burning as much oil as older motors when the oil is the actual differentiator.
Then he took modern oil - I can't remember which - but it wasn't Quaker State and added graphite to it.
It increased compression in the test motor by 15 PSI - which would kind of lead you to believe that adding graphite to modern oil would give you the best of both worlds, but when he took the head off the pistons, heads, everything was coated in an oil graphite mixture. That might be a good thing, I don't know
Anyways, it was interesting to watch. I believe that adding a table spoon of graphite to your oil in an older lawn mower engine is probably more good than bad based on his tests.
I must have missed the part where it was indicated they all used the same lube so that one very big variable wouldn't be a player.
I.E. the worst oil in the best engine is likely to skew results.
Actually, the test meant even less when I think more about it. Different riders on each unit not likely even 2 of them would treat an engine the same, warmups, shift intervals, etc. etc.
Interesting study. I would not take the results seriously. The obvious gets in the way too often. I have a KTM 400 xcw that would paint the oil black in less than 100 miles. The similar Honda engines would go 10 - 20 times farther before oil staining. The problem with the KTM was a solid cast iron oil control ring stolen from Porsche engine designs. The KTM oil control ring was much, much softer than the rough nikasil cylinder coating. The problem of the rough nicasil and the butter ring would have the KTM worn out in less than 25 hours. I fixed the KTM design problem by switching to a Woessner piston with three-piece automotive oil control ring. I installed the Woessner piston and ring on a worn smooth nikasil bore. It took longer to break in but, the result was good. My KTM will match the similar Honda engine for initial oil staining.
I must have missed the part where it was indicated they all used the same lube so that one very big variable wouldn't be a player.
I.E. the worst oil in the best engine is likely to skew results.
Actually, the test meant even less when I think more about it. Different riders on each unit not likely even 2 of them would treat an engine the same, warmups, shift intervals, etc. etc.
Add in the fact that different bikes have different engine speed ranges.. BOWs tend to be lower revving bikes than ducatis and Japanese sport bikes...
At least from the auto side current BMW auto engines have much tighter tolerances than older ones... And of course modern cold-hot viscosity oils are supposedly better for the close tolerances...
The Royal Enfield oil is clean because you have to replace all the oil that leaks out every 100 miles.
What does leaking oil in a Harley tell you? It still has pull in it.
I realize Harley had oil problems in the past, but my 2009 Lowrider doesn't use hardly any, and leaks zero. 24,000 plus miles on it, so it isn't super low mileage, either. Really does very well for an air cooled motor .
The Royal Enfield oil is clean because you have to replace all the oil that leaks out every 100 miles.
What does leaking oil in a Harley tell you? It still has pull in it.
I realize Harley had oil problems in the past, but my 2009 Lowrider doesn't use hardly any, and leaks zero. 24,000 plus miles on it, so it isn't super low mileage, either. Really does very well for an air cooled motor .
None of the HDs I've had since '05 have leaked so much as a drop...
Anyway, here is an interesting study done showing the cleanliness of oil on the first service oil change of motorcycles from various manufacturers. Except for China - they really do make total crap - the results are kind of surprising, particular the Royal Enfields from the new plant in India. Worth the 7 1/2 minutes if one is interested in this kind of thing.
*** Spoiler below video ***
For those that like spoilers, here are the results ranked from cleanest to dirtiest oil: 1. Royal Enfield 2. BMW 3. KTM 4. Yamaha 5. Kawasaki 6. Honda 7. Triumph 8. Suzuki 9. Harley Davidson 10. Aprilia 11. Ducati 12. Yin Xiang - these suck ass in a major way
That fellow is an amusing presenter...I enjoyed that.
My first oil change on my TW200 was an eye opener. There were chunks in it. Second oil change 500 miles later more of same but less 3rd oil change was clean as new oil
Regardless all the non- scientific things about it. It speaks volumes for Royal Enfield and Chinese...
The Royal Enfield oil is clean because you have to replace all the oil that leaks out every 100 miles.
What does leaking oil in a Harley tell you? It still has pull in it.
I realize Harley had oil problems in the past, but my 2009 Lowrider doesn't use hardly any, and leaks zero. 24,000 plus miles on it, so it isn't super low mileage, either. Really does very well for an air cooled motor .
None of the HDs I've had since '05 have leaked so much as a drop...
There’s three of em sitting in the basement. Not an oil stain under any of them. While that might have been true about them leaking oil 80 years ago, it doesn’t seem to be a problem with the ones they’ve built this century.
I like Harleys, but you don't have to go back 80 years for bad oil leaks, just look back to the 70's to early 80's when AMF had HD. I remember going to Stubbs Suzuki/Harley in Houston in 81 and all the new Harleys on the floor had oil stained cardboad under them. Harley has made quantum leaps since then!
I like Harleys, but you don't have to go back 80 years for bad oil leaks, just look back to the 70's to early 80's when AMF had HD. I remember going to Stubbs Suzuki/Harley in Houston in 81 and all the new Harleys on the floor had oil stained cardboad under them. Harley has made quantum leaps since then!
I rode a 79 AMF Sportster for years. It burned a bit of oil, but never leaked a drop.
Yes I did, but let it go. It was a neat motorcycle and I kind of miss it but that was the right decision for my situation.
Sold it in the spring of 2019 and bought a Suzuki TU250X. Little single cylinder, air cooled street bike which is perfect for me these days. If my living arrangements ever change and I move closer to some trail country I might entertain the thought of another T-dub - if they can be had.
That TW200 is living the life it was meant for on a cattle ranch near Cascade, ID.
mmm. cleanliness (clarity) of oil and amount of metal in oil are two very different measures. for instance if one is made to run well no matter what octane you feed it, vs one that only likes high octane race fuel I might expect different oil appearances.. 2valves, four valves etc also weigh in..
I imagine the closer the tolerances, the less likely you are to see combustion byproducts in oil, but there are a lot of assumptions buried in that.. but you can monkey with that with the conventional to full synthetic spectrum...
A reboot of a old thread & I had to go back & read to understand the original subject. Yep, my azzhole opinion hasn't changed a bit.
Originally Posted by gunzo
I must have missed the part where it was indicated they all used the same lube so that one very big variable wouldn't be a player.
I.E. the worst oil in the best engine is likely to skew results.
Actually, the test meant even less when I think more about it. Different riders on each unit not likely even 2 of them would treat an engine the same, warmups, shift intervals, etc. etc.
