The pretext:
I am planning on purchasing a new 1/2 ton pickup in the next 5 years. This truck will be used primarily for leisure travel in retirement, and general daily use such as going to the gun club, going to coffee, and things like that. No heavy towing- we prefer to tent camp and the only boats we own are kayaks.
I will expect this truck to last me as long as I am still able to drive.

The dilemma:
I don’t want to be stuck with an internal combustion engine as everyone converts to EV and fuel costs skyrocket (due to less consumption - think price difference between 12ga vs 410 shot shells).

EV’s and EV infrastructure has a long way to go in the US before it is viable for long distance travel. So, I don’t want to purchase an early EV truck that will quickly become obsolete junk as the technology advances (think first generation cordless tools).

I don’t need the extra power from a diesel engine for my purposes but I am thinking that diesel will be around and the price will remain more stable longer than gasoline.

I am going to give serious consideration to the GM 6 cylinder turbo Diesel engine.

I would appreciate everyone’s thoughts regarding the viability of the different options in the coming years. Is diesel the way to go? I don’t want to be left ‘holding the bag’ with a good truck with no resale or trade in value that I can’t afford to put fuel in.

Gas toyota.

For leisure, you want an electric. That way you'll have lots of free time to drink coffee, gas with friends, etc. while it's charging.

Oh for fuq's sake go out and buy whatever lights your fire.

A couple years ago we bought a near new Toyota Highlander gas. For another $10k we could have got a hybrid. I can't see that we'd ever save enough gas with the hybrid to break even on that $10k

I've had a number of electric cars (pure EV as well as various degrees of hybrid) and would NOT buy a pure EV truck (or car). A hybrid makes a ton of sense, and if I needed to replace my current truck I'd definitely go with something like Ford's hybrid F150 over a non-hybrid gas or diesel. If a diesel could be had for the same price as a hybrid, I'd consider it, but I still prefer gas engines for trucks in the way I use them (i.e., I don't tow).

That’ll work - until I’m trying to drive from KC to Indianapolis in one day.

With diesel upkeep will be more expensive. Fossil fuel isn’t going away any time soon. Electric is in its infancy. It’s not even able to support itself without government subsidies. The whole “green” movement is government subsidized. The Bush ethanol thing has proven to be a disaster but like all government programs will never be allowed to die.

Thanks Remsen. I will definitely watch for the hybrid options.

If you're willing to be painfully honest about it ( which all of the Greenies are totally unwilling to do), the EV makes the least environmental sense of all of them. If we just burned the natural gas that we have an obscene abundance of directly in the vehicle rather than using it to generate electricity we could burn 40% less for the same number of miles driven.

Electric truck is so very ghey

This is the route I went. Electric is a long way from being a real option in a real truck, especially the traveling you are talking about doing with it. My last 2 trucks were pre emission Diesels.

I like the idea of EV’s. I just don’t see them as viable for long distance travel (let alone towing a camper) for a long time.

If my two car garage was empty and my bank account overflowing, I would buy an electric car for daily driving and a gas crew cab truck for comfortable travel.

Currently I have a 6 year old Subaru Forester that is the daily driver and long trip vehicle, plus a 33 year old Silverado that is used when a truck is needed to haul or tow.

The whole EV movement has the similar net energy loss as ethanol.

Think.....



Electricity production carbon footprint....
Mining of minerals for the new "green" world carbon footprint....
Charging station installation carbon footprint....

It is all about the "Green New Deal" industrial complex....

Just like the war in the sandbox was for the military industrial complex....

Just like the 'rona was for the medical industrial complex....

Don't be a pawn on their chess board.

....... SPOT ON .......

I will look at the new Toyota, but it would really have to ‘wow’ me to pull me away from GM. The Forester is the only foreign brand vehicle I have ever owned and while it is a great vehicle, it does not fit my frame and is not comfortable on long drives.

All the anti EV & anti green movement posts are welcome, but I believe it is coming whether we like it or not. That is the basis for my concern about being left ‘holding the bag’ with an obsolete vehicle. Maybe there will be another government program to ‘bailout’ the poor schmucks who purchased the wrong vehicles and are being left behind…

If you're full figured you're probably not going to like Toyota. I had an older 2003 Tundra and while it was a decent PU it was like sitting on the floor and I'm not full figured. I'd encourage you to look and drive just about everything and go from there. I wouldn't worry about what is environmentally friendly. Nothing is but current gas vehicles come closer than anything else. All this friendliness costs the buyer a lot of money for not so much gain.

You hit the nail on the head.

Wanna drive 8-10 hrs straight...... better have gas, diesel, or hybrid.

Wanna pull a trailer 1200 miles..... gas or diesel and maybe hybrid (dont know how they pull) 2 days easily. Better figure 4-5 days with electric and I'm guessing they are rated to pull a trailer.

^^^This^^^

So you said it yourself.... the politicians will decide who the schmucks are. Not common sense..... not science.... not economics.... not the market..... the POLITICIAN's will decide who the Schmucks will be. Don't be a pawn on their chess board ..... live free or die.

Gasoline all the way.

Ever price one of those hybrid batteries?
https://www.greentecauto.com/product-tag/silverado-2009-2013

That’s wonderful patriotic tough guy rhetoric and it sounds like we basically agree. So, what would you choose - gas or horse & buggy?

I've had my 2020 Ram 1/2T Ecodiesel 4x4 over a year now and really like it. Time will tell how it holds up but so far it's been great. This was on flat ground, no wind to help or hurt.

Yeah, that sucks but spending $3-5k on a replacement battery to keep a 10 year old truck viable may be a much better situation than being stuck with a strictly gasoline engine vehicle in 2035.

I priced these in May of 2020 and the hybrid was less than $1,000 more than a gas burner. IIRC, more like $500 premium. I was leaning that route but we decided the 3rd row was too small and went with another brand all together.

The internal combustion engine of any flavor isn’t going to be obsolete in my lifetime and I’m young compared to most of you fellas.

Today's Tundra is not even comparable to the first gen in 2003. And I haven't seen the latest version obviously.

I'm staying in a gas burner for now, but I think in 4-5 years, I would consider a hybrid truck. Anxious to see the new Tundra numbers in the real world.

I'd definitely consider a hybrid SUV or car now for the wife.

If one really wants to go somewhere, stick with fossil fuel.

Green new deal is going to fail. They want electric everything. Except, no coal,no natural gas,no nukes, and no new mines. Stick with gas. I would wait on any brand new model. New tundra included.

Here is my take.

1) Electric, Tesla is coming out with their 500 mile range pickup truck in 2022. Made in Texas. If you are worried about charging, Tesla has others beat hands down. Their charging stations, nationwide following the interstate system can charge you in 45 minutes. A test between an electric Model S Tesla, a Ford Mustang Electric, and a gasoline Audi. 1,000 miles, all using the same route. The Audi made it in 18.5 hours. The Tesla in 20 hours, and the Electric Ford Mustang, in 28 hours. Ford had a problem charging and had to stop overnight to charge. Tesla took two 45 minute charges, thus the hour and a half behind Audi. All had to go the speed limit. Tesla also comes with 3 ways to charge. 110 volts in 8 hours, 220 volts in 3 hours, or their charging stations in 45 minutes. I think their charging stations use 440 volts.

2) Hybrid. This would get you better gas mileage, and the batteries usually last 8-10 years.

3) Gasoline. Gas is right now cheaper than diesel, but prices are rising fast. Just saw American Crude at $80 a barrel.

4) Diesel, more expensive than a gas user. Diesel is higher priced now with "clean diesel". Both gas and diesel will be over $5 a gallon before Joe is out of office.

I would either buy an electric Tesla when they come out with the extended range batteries or buy a Ford Hybrid. Both will be about the same price. Tesla's have to be ordered on the internet, and a small deposit made. You may have to wait about 2 years to get one. Also, Tesla is now the world's largest vehicle corporation by value. You also don't get a tax credit anymore because they exceed 100,000 vehicles being mad a year. The first 100,000 electric vehicles made get a tax credit no mater who makes them. At least it used to be 100,000 vehicles.

Discussing mileage with electric vehicles is a waste of time. The fact is, the heavier the load the shorter the range is going to be with electric cars, just like gas or diesel vehicles. If you really use your truck the way it was intended there would be no consideration of electric unless you want to stop what you are doing iin the middle of something like hunting, fishing, hauling a load of stuff or moving to another location and wait 45 minutes, or a couple hours, or overnight to charge your vehicle to complete your project- maybe even a couple times a day.... whereas with a gas vehicle, a couple minute stop at any gas station and you're on your way..

On top of that, building enough electric vehicles to meet the government wet dreams these morons propose is a physical impossibility. There aren't enough exotic materials being produced on earth to meet the demand. The electric grid isn't designed at the community and neighborhood level to charge more than a couple cars per block at the same time. And producing these vehicles is so carbon backwards moving it makes gas vehicles look like an intel clean room... Heck, you can't even get vehicles to market now due to lack of chips...

Bob

Do what you like but here 90-odd% go diesel.

Gas half ton all the way.

Electrics aren’t going to dominate for a long time and not until there’s a breakthrough in battery technology. Right now they’re just expensive toys, not even close to being ready for prime time.

The EPA has made diesels too costly to own.

I

Do they force you to pump cow urine(def) into a separate tank for emission control like they do here. That was enough for me, back to gas here, 2021 Toyota Four Runner. Had a Ford Super Duty 4x4 with the 7.3 Power Stroke diesel.

What's the point when you cant roll coal?

They do use adblue (pig piss) on a number of new diesels, but Toyota utilises a burn off instead.


As to the pig piss, I am thinking some political prick owns a piggery.

Buy a diesel, haul ass!

Interesting statistic. That sort of overwhelming buy in doesnt happen by accident. Are all other factors equal between Diesel and Gas (Petrol) is there an explanation for this 90% buy in for diesel in Australia? Taxes? Fuel prices?

I won't repeat what I wrote in another thread, but the 1000 mile comparison test was fundamentally flawed. My take is here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...dstown-all-electric-pickups#Post16445850

Reliability and fuel availability, every block has diesel. That said petrol vehicles are getting better...there is no doubt about that.

Were I in a city or large town without the need to go bush I would only purchase a petrol vehicle as they really are getting better, certainly cheaper as well.

But for bush...diesel.

Gotcha. Thanks.

if you're even considering a Diesel, get a RAM / Cummins 6.7. Best in the market, ever.

the only problem is emissions. if it's deleted then at some point you're gonna be screwed. the feds are going to make it undriveable. SO, if you want a good diesel without the emissions hassle, get one of these:

1. the IH 7.3 in the 2000-2002.5 F250 (I just bought one this year for that very reason) I found the 2000 F-250 with 31k miles on it. Yes 31k original.
2. A pre-emissions Cummins 5.9, they're out there and they will last you until you're in the ground.

Here in the US it is pretty unusual to get a half ton with a diesel. Unless you are going to get a Colorado with the small diesel, which is highly rated and has great reviews...

I’m not operating a cattle ranch - I need a city slicker truck.
I want a large vehicle with lots of passenger & cargo room for multi day trips that has a comfortable ride. The utility of a 1/2 ton light duty truck beats out an SUV for my purposes, but I don’t need lots of power or towing capacity.

OK, got ya. then I would seriously dismiss a Diesel from your options. All I know, and all I have driven for the last 15 years is Diesels. I've had mostly Cummins. The EPA and feds are seriously screwing the medium sized diesel market out of business. I got the 7.3L F-250 because I wanted the Diesel but I wanted something I didn't have to hassle with the emissions.

get a good gasser, listen to the other guys on gassers but if you don't need diesel power then seriously don't go there...

Chev makes a 2.7 4 banger that will tow. No lo range 4wd though
The 3.0 diesel will too, with a low range transfer case.

I still think the electric revolution will be public transportation and permission slips to travel.

So far the only EV I like is a dirt bike because my 86 yo brother laid down his gas dirt bike out alone and had a hard time kick starting it.

I went with a 2021 f150 hybrid. The 3.0 L chevy inline 6 diesel runs well and gets good milage too. My F150 is definitely faster but the chevy 3.0 runs strong with a tourqey feel and a smooth 10 speed auto. The one I drove got 30 mpg on the highway.

The newest version of the ram 3.0 diesel is much better than their earlier one was. My 2019 ram half ton had the hemi and only got around 16mpg but it was a really nice truck and road and drove great. I'd be tempted to try a ram 3.0 diesel too because the trucks drive so nice.

Bb

I've got 2 of the 5.9 Cummins and have had all the newer full size diesel trucks. Forget going the coin and cost for diesel. You want a nice city slicker truck so get a Toyota. I wouldn't consider GM over Toyota if going for a new truck that's a gasser.

In the end get what you desire and have fun with it. I'm going to go hang out in Central Idaho with my old 5.9 Cummins Ram with an 2021 KTM 690 Enduro on the flatbed. It ain't no city slicker rig. It's pretty much a hillbilly setup.

I run a Ford F350 Super Duty with a gas engine up here in Alaska. That electric bullshiz wouldn't for me here. I love my truck, thank you very much.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and agree with a lot that has been said. I do run a cattle ranch and have four 5.9 Cummins. They work well for me. If I were to buy a Ford, it would be the 7.3. I also agree the future of EV is public transportation and papers to travel. My wife bought a 2020 Four Runner two years ago. It works well for our purposes.

The information I was reading may be out of date but it seems the heavier the vehicle, the less benefit there is to a hybrid. Seems hybrids have been popular with small sedans and crossovers but they don’t sell well in full size SUV’s or trucks.

I’m 70 years old and am driving a 2019 Silverado, gas. My next one will be a Silverado, gas. The one after that, if I’m still alive will be a Silverado, gas.
I need to be able to drive in comfort 8-12 hours straight on hunting trips. I haul very little and don’t pull anything.

LMAO.... Sooooooo true....

Any body that would buy electric without a very specific reason didn't know the question.

Anyone that buys an electric pickup is a commie. It's simple.

The biggest problem with NG for a vehicle fuel is the size and weight of the required tank. It has to be very heavy. Also, there's problem of refueling time. It takes a long time to compress NG enough to be practical as a fuel. The equipment to compress it is very large and expensive. Then there's the exhaust problem - it's largely CO2 which is what the greenies are trying to avoid.

CO2 is what they're using to convince the world that we're in big trouble. It's not the problem but it can be controlled and regulated. The real greenhouse problem, water vapor, makes up a much larger % of the atmosphere but it can't be controlled, regulated, or taxed.

Gasoline powered F-150.....easy one.

+1

Damn American car manufacturers, don't want to be caught supporting one of them.