My friend and I got into a debate, she said most people who died in Auschwitz, died from the gas chamber, I said the greater number perished from poor diet, overwork and disease. The average life expectancy was 6 weeks to 3 months. I have read numerous books and autobiographies and the gas chambers came later in the camp's life, I think it was 1943. As it is doubtful that we will ever know the exact details, the Germans were meticulous record keepers. Anyone have an idea which two categories did the most killing?
Depending on the source 85% were murdered in the camp. Purportedly 960,000 Jews entered the camp and were immediately killed, gassed or otherwise. So no, starvation and disease were secondary.
From what I read, anyone really old or really young who couldn’t work was killed immediately. Those who could work were worked to almost death then killed.
Joel rosenburgs fictional novel about it was good at capturing the brutality.
Depending on the source 85% were murdered in the camp. Purportedly 960,000 Jews entered the camp and were immediately killed, gassed or otherwise. So no, starvation and disease were secondary.
What Swifty said. Also, Auschwitz was a death camp. 1.3 million prisoners arrived, with 900,000+ dying immediately in the gas chambers. Of the 400,000 not selected for extermination half died.
No idea, but from a pragmatic perspective... recycling clothes... or at least the fiber from cloth would be seasonal maybe... I suspect nude and gassed in a shower might be most efficient to recycle fiber for the fall or winter needs?.
My friend and I got into a debate, she said most people who died in Auschwitz, died from the gas chamber, I said the greater number perished from poor diet, overwork and disease. The average life expectancy was 6 weeks to 3 months. I have read numerous books and autobiographies and the gas chambers came later in the camp's life, I think it was 1943. As it is doubtful that we will ever know the exact details, the Germans were meticulous record keepers. Anyone have an idea which two categories did the most killing?
Auschwitz II (or "Birkenau") was about 2 miles away from the main prison/concentration camp.
Birkenau is where ‘selektion’ was conducted at the rail ramp. Women, children, meek, weak and old were sent immendiately to the showers. It was actually the true ‘death camp’ for pure purposes of extermination of pure, 1st order, 2nd order jewry and gypsies (romas)
Auschwitz 3 was purely a work labor camp for the local rubber manufacturing works
In all sites, the goal was ultimately to work the piss out of someone on limited calories.
There were about 45 subcamps that made up the whole vast complex over several square miles. Medical experiments and admin were conducted at the main camp I. Shooting were done on the black wall between Block 10-11 of the barracks rows.
No idea, but from a pragmatic perspective... recycling clothes... or at least the fiber from cloth would be seasonal maybe... I suspect nude and gassed in a shower might be most efficient to recycle fiber for the fall or winter needs?.
Really no idea though.
Clothing, shoes, eyeglasses, luggage, personal belongings were routinely train car shipped back into deeper Germany for sorting, and redistribution.
Sonderkommandos were tasked with pulling gold fillings and wedding bands from the bodies as they dragged them off to the crematoriums.
Sonderkomms were other jews on work detail. Their life expectancy was about 6-8 weeks considering their grim tasks
The Nazis used a variety of camps throughout their time in power to persecute, control and, eventually, murder their opponents.
This section will explain the different types of camps used at different points by the Nazis.
Concentration camps
Generally speaking, a concentration camp is a place where people are concentrated and imprisoned without trial. Inmates are usually exploited for their labour and kept under harsh conditions, though this is not always the case.
In Nazi Germany after 1933, and across Nazi controlled Europe between 1938 and 1945, concentration camps became a major way in which the Nazis imposed their control.
Separating concentration camps and extermination camps
It is key to separate concentration camps from extermination camps.
The aim of the Nazi concentration camps was to contain prisoners in one place. The administration of the camps had a distinct disregard for inmates’ lives and health, and as a result, tens of thousands of people perished within the camps.
The aim of the Nazi extermination camps was to murder and annihilate all races deemed ‘ degenerate ’: primarily Jews but also Roma .
Development of concentration camps
The first concentration camps in Germany were set up as detention centres for so-called ‘enemies of the state’. Initially, these people were primarily political prisoners such as communists , but this soon expanded to also include Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, Roma, and so called ‘ a-socials ’.
After March 1938, when Germany annexed Austria in an event known as Anschluss thousands of German and Austrian Jews were arrested and detained in Dachau, Buchenwald and Sachsenhausen concentration camps. The mass detention of Jews on the basis of the Nazis’ racial ideology intensified following Kristallnacht and continued until the end of the Second World War. This imprisonment was an escalation of the Nazis’ previous persecution of Jews.
Imprisonment in the Nazi concentration camps was usually indefinite, and whilst (initially) some people were released in just a few days, most endured weeks, months or years of detention. Sanitation and facilities were extremely poor across all camps. Brutal treatment, torture and humiliation was commonplace.
Inmates in concentration camps were also usually subject to forced labour. Typically, this was long hours of hard physical labour, though this varied across different camps. Many camps worked their prisoners to death.
Approximately one million people died in concentration camps over the course of the Holocaust. This figure does not include those killed at extermination camps.
Extermination camps
Extermination camps were used by the Nazis from 1941 to 1945 to murder Jews and, on a smaller scale, Roma .
To implement the ‘ Final Solution ’, the Nazis established six purpose built extermination camps on Polish soil. These were:
1. Chełmno (in operation December 1941-January 1945) 2. Bełżec (in operation March-December 1942) 3. Sobibór (in operation May-July 1942 and October 1942-October 1943 4. Treblinka (in operation July 1942-August 1943) 5. Majdanek (in operation September 1942-July 1944) 6. Auschwitz-Birkenau (in operation March 1942-January 1945)
Chełmno was the first extermination camp to be established in December 1941. Its purpose was to murder the Jews of the surrounding area and the Łódź ghetto. The facility contained three gas vans in which victims were murdered by carbon monoxide poisoning. Once dead, the vans were driven to a nearby forest and the victims were buried in mass graves.
After the Wannsee Conference of 1942, the Nazis built additional extermination camps at Bełżec, Sobibór and Treblinka. These camps were specifically built near railway lines to make transportation easier. Instead of vans, stationary gas chambers, labelled as showers, were built to murder people with carbon monoxide poisoning created using diesel engines.
A concentration camp had been established at Majdanek in 1941. In the spring of 1942, following the Wannsee Conference, the camp was adapted to become an extermination camp by the addition of gas chambers and crematoria.
Auschwitz-Birkenau was a complex, consisting of a concentration camp, a forced labour camp and an extermination camp. Eventually it had a network of more than 40 satellite camps. Following tests in September 1941, the lethal gas Zyklon B was selected as the method of murder. Auschwitz initially had one gas chamber at the Auschwitz I camp, but this was soon expanded. By 1943, four new crematoria, with gas chambers attached, had been built in Auschwitz II. Approximately 1.1 million people were murdered in the Auschwitz gas chambers.
Not everyone who arrived at the extermination camps was murdered on arrival. Some were selected for various work tasks to help the camp operations run smoothly. Jobs included sorting and processing the possessions of everyone who arrived at the camp, administrative work and heavy manual work.
The majority of those selected for any kind of work within this type of camp would die within weeks or months of their arrival from lack of food, disease or overwork. Those that survived were often killed after a short period and replaced with new arrivals.
Over the course of the Holocaust, more than three million people were killed at extermination camps.
Transit camps
Transit camps were camps where prisoners were briefly detained prior to deportation to other Nazi camps.
Following the start of the Second World War, the Nazis occupied a number of countries. Here, they implemented antisemitic and racial policies as they had done in Germany. These policies led to the establishment of a number of transit camps across the different occupied countries. Prisoners were held in these camps prior to their deportation to other camps, such as Bergen-Belsen or Auschwitz.
Overall, the conditions in the transit camps were similar to that of concentration camps – unsanitary and awful. Facilities were poor and overcrowding was common.
Unlike most of the concentration camps within Germany not all of the transit camps were run by the SS . Camps could be run by local collaborators in the countries that they were based, such as Drancy, near Paris in France, which was run by the French Police until 1943.
Forced labour camps
The Nazis started using forced labour shortly after their rise to power. They established specific Arbeitslager (labour camps) which housed Ostarbeiter (eastern workers), Fremdarbeiter (foreign workers) and other forced labourers who were forcibly rounded up and brought in from the east. These were separate from the SS-run concentration camps, where prisoners were also forced to perform labour.
The use of forced labour first began to grow significantly in 1937, as rearmament caused labour shortages. Following the outbreak of the Second World War, the use of labour again increased sharply.
The invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941 further heightened demands on the war economy, and in turn, for labour. At the same time, this invasion brought thousands of potential new workers under Nazi control. These prisoners were called Ostarbeiter (eastern workers) and Fremdarbeiter (foreign workers). The Nazis deported these people to forced labour camps, where they worked to produce supplies for the increasingly strained war economy or in construction efforts.
As in most Nazi camps, conditions in forced labour camps were inadequate. Inmates were only ever seen as temporary, and, in the Nazis view, could always be replaced with others: there was a complete disregard for the health of prisoners. They were subject to insufficiencies of food, equipment, medicine and clothing, whilst working long hours. There was little or no time for rest or breaks. As a result of these conditions, death rates in labour camps were extremely high.
By 1945, more than fourteen million people had been exploited in the network of hundreds of forced labour camps that stretched across the whole of Nazi-occupied Europe.
Prisoner of war camps
Allied military officers and personnel who were captured by, or surrendered to, the Nazis were also imprisoned in camps. These camps were called prisoner of war, or POW, camps. Over one thousand prisoner of war camps existed throughout the Third Reich during the Second World War.
The camps held British, American, French, Polish and Soviet military personnel. There were many different types of camps, some held specifically Navy personnel, others held only officers, and others held a more general array of prisoners.
Germany had signed and agreed to the terms of the Geneva Convention of 1929 , which set out the basic treatment of prisoners of war, but these were rarely upheld in full by the Nazis. Conditions inside the camps were usually miserable, with scarce food and poor sanitation widespread. Many of the inmates were also forced to carry out hard labour.
The Nazis believed that Soviet citizens were subhuman and racial enemies due to Soviet communism , which they saw in direct opposition to Nazism. As such, they treated Soviet prisoners of war particularly harshly. Over the course of the war approximately 5.7 million Soviet army members were captured by the Nazis. Over 3.3 million army personnel died at the hands of the Nazis through starvation, disease, lack of facilities or mass shootings.
For God s sake,this is the kind of post for Thanksgiving day?????? Please,lets have a nice day without this B.S. ,i might as well go back downstairs and deal with the idiot millienals.
For God s sake,this is the kind of post for Thanksgiving day?????? Please,lets have a nice day without this B.S. ,i might as well go back downstairs and deal with the idiot millienals.
For God s sake,this is the kind of post for Thanksgiving day?????? Please,lets have a nice day without this B.S. ,i might as well go back downstairs and deal with the idiot millienals.
i had a half sister that most of her family was processed at auschwitz summer of 44 the hurt is still there and the off color stuff i cannot excuse. just crude low brow people can be
i had a half sister that most of her family was processed at auschwitz summer of 44 the hurt is still there and the off color stuff i cannot excuse. just crude low brow people can be
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
i had a half sister that most of her family was processed at auschwitz summer of 44 the hurt is still there and the off color stuff i cannot excuse. just crude low brow people can be
Agree completely. Takes a sick person to joke about this
During the deportation of Hungarian Jews in the spring of 1944, Auschwitz-Birkenau reached peak killing capacity: the SS gassed as many as 6,000 Jews each day. By November 1944, the SS had killed more than a million Jews and tens of thousands of Roma, Poles, and Soviet prisoners of war in Auschwitz-Birkenau. At least 865,000 Jews were killed immediately upon arrival. The overwhelming majority were killed in the gas chambers.
I just finished it last month. it talks about the "build up" and "optimization" of the facility (and others) along with quite a bit of history.
tragedy of untold proportions.
one surprise to me was that most of the victims werent Germans. apparently Germany didnt have that many Jews, but as they conquered adjacent nations (Poland, France, Hungary, etc) they worked with the local governments to select Jews for deportation, then murder. Hungary lost the most because of their #'s.
Depending on the source 85% were murdered in the camp. Purportedly 960,000 Jews entered the camp and were immediately killed, gassed or otherwise. So no, starvation and disease were secondary.
When I was in school, I did a lot of research into this. Extermination (by all methods including shooting, hanging and gas) was the primary cause. If you died from disease/starvation it was because of the "backlog" in the process, or you were worked to death. Males (younger and healthier) survived longer because they were prime candidates for slave labor. Old people, women and children went right into the "disposal process."
Heard on a WW II documentary the other night that pre-war Germany had an estimated 500,000 Jews. (Apocalypse WW II or one of those shows). Half fled pre war according to that source. Some to US, some to UK, some to France. Ones that went to France were rounded up after German occupation. French were not shy about turning them in. Poland had 3 million. USSR 2.5 million.
Years ago, I had to read a book for a college course called ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’ by Viktor Frankl. He was a psychologist and MD who was chosen to assist in medical experimentation in the camps, and while there, he made observations of the differences between those who survived and those who did not, all within the context of the horrors of the camps. It’s a fascinating book and puts a face on the statistics, and brings a human side to the history. I recommend it for those interested.
2 things I didn’t really know until the last couple years. That the nazis got locals in the countries they conquered to carry out much of it. There were collaborators who did much of the dirty work. Few were actually held accountable. It was mainly the more famous or note worthy who were prosecuted for war crimes. The rest got away with it. The cooperation and scale of those involved went way past the nazis.
Got nothing bad to say about jewish people or Israelis in general.
If your a liberal Socialist democrat it dont matter what color you are or what religon you might profess to be. You are a POS in my veiw.
Don't like threads like this due to the innuendo or hatred.
And that coming from a azzhole like me.
Best company commander tactically and technically proficent wise I served under was a jewish cat. Some of the best soldiers I had under me where jewish cats.
None of em stick in my mind as schitbirds and it is human nature to remember the bad far more clearly than the good.
Dated a Jewish girl of polish immigrants to here. Her grandparents had the inside the left arm tat. Meet em at a Jewish / polish wedding. They loved me dating their granddaughter.
The Israelis been kicking Haji,s azz for a long time. Thats what stands out in my mind. All the issues people have with that and with Israel in general. Well thats their opinon.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Alot dont understand that saying and have not lived or experienced the multitudes of connections to it....
My friend and I got into a debate, she said most people who died in Auschwitz, died from the gas chamber, I said the greater number perished from poor diet, overwork and disease. The average life expectancy was 6 weeks to 3 months. I have read numerous books and autobiographies and the gas chambers came later in the camp's life, I think it was 1943. As it is doubtful that we will ever know the exact details, the Germans were meticulous record keepers. Anyone have an idea which two categories did the most killing?
We broke the German's secret communication code in 1941. Not one mention was heard about the construction or use of homicidal gas chambers. The only structure currently claimed to have been used for that was in Auschwitz, which was in Soviet hands from the day of capture till the end of the Cold War. Today, they admit that it was a multi-use building during the war, and was altered after the war to appear to have been a crude gas chamber, in order to justify harsh post-war treatment of Germans and Germany.
Additionally, that structure could not even function as the Soviets designed it to function, if the German objective was to create a structure for killing people with Zyklon B gas. Zyklon B was a common pesticide, in constant use during WWII for controlling lice, which were known to be the cause of typhus. The Germans knew perfectly well how to construct buildings for the use of Zyklon B, as each camp had perfectly well functioning, and safe, fumigation chambers for clothing. Those chambers were properly sealed against leakage, with specially designed rubber-sealed doors, and no windows, and no one claims people were killed in them. The supposed Auschwitz homicidal gas chamber (constructed by the Russians after the war as a prop) had ordinary glass windows and an unsealed door (just a regular door). Furthermore, that door opened inwards, which makes no sense if it was to a homicidal gas chamber, since after murdering people in there, you wouldn't be able to open the door for the bodies in the way.
Supposedly, Germans just tossed the Zyklon B pellets into the room from ports in the roof, constructed by the Germans just for this purpose. Two problems with that: 1) that's not how Zyklon B works. It needs to be placed in a specially designed machine to heat it up to high temperatures, which causes the pellets to release their gas. The machine then blows the gas into the fumigation chamber where clothes are hung, which machines the Germans knew perfectly well how to construct and use, since they used them in their clothes fumigation chambers. And 2) The Russians today admit that those ports were additions they made to the building to further the claim that it was used by the Germans as a homicidal gas chamber (They claim, in way of justification, that it was a "reconstruction" rather than a prop). Nothing about the homicidal gas chamber claims about Auschwitz stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. Many died in the camps, but it wasn't from gas chambers.
Records indicate a serious problem with lice and typhus in the camps during the last months of the war, which, combined with malnutrition, overcrowding, and the absence of medical supplies (supply lines had been severed by Allied bombing), killed many thousands of prisoners (more Roman Catholics than Jews, incidentally). Many of the photos of huge numbers of dead bodies, supposedly of gas chamber victims, were actually images of victims of Allied bombing, often accidentally targeting camps and hospitals, not to mention trains filled with prisoners wrongly thought by the Allied pilots to be transporting war supplies.
Odd that the International Red Cross had access to all the camps, made regular inspections, including inmate interviews, and never noticed the human extermination program going on.
Heard on a WW II documentary the other night that pre-war Germany had an estimated 500,000 Jews. (Apocalypse WW II or one of those shows). Half fled pre war according to that source. Some to US, some to UK, some to France. Ones that went to France were rounded up after German occupation. French were not shy about turning them in. Poland had 3 million. USSR 2.5 million.
Many Jews who waited too long and who couldn’t get to the UK, France, or the US because of quotas, fled on cargo ships to Shanghai, China which became quite an international mix of peoples. Eventually, Shanghai came under Japanese control and, interestingly, they were not the monsters the Germans were. They tolerated the Jews, and even befriended those who came to work fo them.
Supply chain disruption, all a big misunderstanding, Russians.
Oh boy TRH, you have got yourself a serious case of denial.
An understatement. I've personally handled official German records of extermination. Living in Miami, I knew quite a bit of Holocaust survivors and when I found names\, often-times I'd cross checked them with their surviving relatives and they would corroborate. Further, the likes of Speer, Goring and of course Eichman ALL verified the history. Not to mention the financial records of Bayer, IG Farben, etc with clear proof they were in contract with the government to provide the gas. If for no other reason, it was the GERMANS who were in charge of this. They kept meticulous records and it's all there.
To cite the Red Cross as a source (who were continually duped by the Germans even whey they visited the Luftstalags) is laughable...then again...7kookery tends to numb the senses.
Supply chain disruption, all a big misunderstanding, Russians.
Oh boy TRH, you have got yourself a serious case of denial.
An understatement. I've personally handled official German records of extermination. Living in Miami, I knew quite a bit of Holocaust survivors and when I found names\, often-times I'd cross checked them with their surviving relatives and they would corroborate. Further, the likes of Speer, Goring and of course Eichman ALL verified the history. Not to mention the financial records of Bayer, IG Farben, etc with clear proof they were in contract with the government to provide the gas. If for no other reason, it was the GERMANS who were in charge of this. They kept meticulous records and it's all there.
To cite the Red Cross as a source (who were continually duped by the Germans even whey they visited the Luftstalags) is laughable...then again...7kookery tends to numb the senses.
Yeah...how did they get all those Jews to lie the same?
Still trying to sort out the truth here..... facts? I don't think so. I wonder how the "Germans" can fight a 360 degree war and have enough resources to carry out the duty's of extermination, unfettered. If it did happen then the number of 6 million could be off by millions. Knowing who gets to write or re-write history makes for sketchy facts, just saying.
"just saying" is the typical retort when there's no valid counter argument. The answer to your question is to READ and specifically, the number was 5,968, 672 if memory serves. The Germans kept very good records. Speaking of reading, you might want to start with Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer. Another good one although it covers German history going back to the 1600s, is The Arms Of Krupp" by William Manchester, both go into verifiable detail about the camps, extermination and slave labor..The Allgemeine-SS and the SS-Totenkopfverbände (SS-TV), had more than enough to cover..Not to be confused with the WAFFEN SS...
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
The World Almanac of 1948 recorded that the world population of Jews increased between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. The International Red Cross, in a comprehensive report released in Geneva in 1948, concluded that approximately 272,000 concentration camp inmates died in German custody, about half of whom (according to the report) were Jews, almost all during the latter months of the war.
During that time period, there were massive migrations of people throughout Europe, many ending up in Soviet occupied territory by the end of the war, never to be heard from again outside the Iron Curtain. It's likely that separated sides of Jewish families assumed that those who were actually (unknown to them) on the opposite side of the Iron Curtain had been killed.
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
The World Almanac of 1948 recorded that the world population of Jews increased between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. The International Red Cross, in a comprehensive report released in Geneva in 1948, concluded that approximately 272,000 concentration camp inmates died in German custody, about half of whom (according to the report) were Jews, almost all during the latter months of the war.
During that time period, there were massive migrations of people throughout Europe, many ending up in Soviet occupied territory by the end of the war, never to be heard from again outside the Iron Curtain. It's likely that separated sides of Jewish families assumed that those who were actually (unknown to them) on the other side of the Iron Curtain had been killed.
Ok, so your argument is that the missing Dutch Jews packed their bags, abandoned (not sold, abandoned) their homes and businesses, didn't say goodbye to their friends and neighbors and hopped the train across Germany into Soviet territory DURING WW2?
I got to sit in room with Auschwitz survivor Eva Kors about a year before she died. She was one of the twins Mengele experimented on. For about an hour and a half she told her story of Auschwitz. It was something else.
The World Almanac? lol....This thread is another example of the flies around horseshit syndrome....or kooks to the tinfoil...
The first new edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica printed after WWII reported similar numbers of Jewish deaths in the camps. Said article in that edition of Britannica was written by a Jewish academician.
No matter what you believe I’ve always found it strange and suspicious when countries make it illegal to investigate what really happened
Did the Nazis ever deny it?
They did at first, but in order to stop the torture, they signed on to whatever confessions were placed in front of them, many of them confessing to personally murdering tens of millions of Jews. Of course, those numbers had to be modified.
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
The World Almanac of 1948 recorded that the world population of Jews increased between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. The International Red Cross, in a comprehensive report released in Geneva in 1948, concluded that approximately 272,000 concentration camp inmates died in German custody, about half of whom (according to the report) were Jews, almost all during the latter months of the war.
During that time period, there were massive migrations of people throughout Europe, many ending up in Soviet occupied territory by the end of the war, never to be heard from again outside the Iron Curtain. It's likely that separated sides of Jewish families assumed that those who were actually (unknown to them) on the other side of the Iron Curtain had been killed.
Ok, so your argument is that the missing Dutch Jews packed their bags, abandoned (not sold, abandoned) their homes and businesses, didn't say goodbye to their friends and neighbors and hopped the train across Germany into Soviet territory DURING WW2?
It was apparently like a racial Ponzi scheme. The Jews simply never existed.
Just like the Kennedy assassination, piles and piles of supposed facts, then those facts disputed, another book, another 'I was there', scientist proved this, engineer disproved that. On and on it goes where it stops nobody knows. Follow the money they say, who could benefit from the tales of the slaughter?
I read the book, Bloodlands a few years ago . The numbers and ways people were killed was sobering to say the least. I've always been fascinated by that period of history and have read many books about it . It's pretty dry reading but the numbers killed from the 20s through the end of the war will make you wonder about man's inhumanity to man.
Shore as hell it did happen. My stepmother was a survivor of that shindig.
We had 2 guys who survived that little field trip in the town I grew up in. One was our elementary art teacher. He started talking about it only in his last few years. The other died in his middle years and rarely spoke about it.
This is the only thing that gets me. Everything about the Holocaust is about the Jews. I'm of Ukrainian/Slovak descent and all the Slavs killed are mostly ignored.
If the Jews didn't die in the camps........ Where did they all go? Well over 3/4 of the Jews in The Netherlands were not there after WW2. Where did they go?
New Yawk and Floorduh
Canader, and lets not forget hollyweird got lots too.
The guy that owned the city cafe here was on that march. He never talked about it but he couldn't say the "J" word without a cuss word on either side of it. He carried his hatred of the Japs to his death.
Whatever means they got dead there were a lot of them gone.
If you ever get a chance to visit one of those nice places and look around you might just come away with the thought that the Germans killed a lot of folks from all over Europe.
Don't know how many jews were killed during and after the invasion of Poland but they started early and stayed late.
Seems that they did not care much for folks from anywhere else much.
Shore as hell it did happen. My stepmother was a survivor of that shindig.
We had 2 guys who survived that little field trip in the town I grew up in. One was our elementary art teacher. He started talking about it only in his last few years. The other died in his middle years and rarely spoke about it.
I’ve been to Dachau concentration camp outside of Munich. The crematorium and showers/gas chambers are still intact and all Bavarian school children are required to visit the camp. If this didn’t happen as some have suggested the Germans are still doing a great job keeping the conspiracy alive.
Glad I went but don’t care to go back, it’s a very touching experience.
Number 1 cause of death for Jews in WWII? They were greatly disliked by the Nazis and the Soviets for various reasons
Here’s the silver lining though…and it’s a big one.
The Jews got a free country out of it and have had carte blanche to do whatever they want to whom ever they want for the past 70 years…with no end in sight.
Don’t dare to question them…for if you do your an “anti semite”.
6 million (if you believe that number) is a small price for their prize.
I’ve been to Dachau concentration camp outside of Munich. The crematorium and showers/gas chambers are still intact and all Bavarian school children are required to visit the camp. If this didn’t happen as some have suggested the Germans are still doing a great job keeping the conspiracy alive.
Glad I went but don’t care to go back, it’s a very touching experience.
It really is. I visited Mauthausen in Austria once and Theresienstadt in CZ and Auschwitz in Poland two times. The gas chamber in Mauthausen wasn't filled with Zyklon B by just dropping the pellets into the chamber. The substrate was warmed and then directed into the chamber with pipes. There were also gas chambers in hospitals for mentally retarded people like in Hadamar. The gas chambers in Majdanek still exist. Even the bills for the iron doors with their rubber seals still exist. All doors are to be opened to the outside of the chambers. Although the gas chambers in Dachau were "only" just tested they were not used for mass murder like in Auschwitz.
Shore as hell it did happen. My stepmother was a survivor of that shindig.
We had 2 guys who survived that little field trip in the town I grew up in. One was our elementary art teacher. He started talking about it only in his last few years. The other died in his middle years and rarely spoke about it.
kwg
About 15 years ago, my stepmother showed me a ragdoll her mother had made for her in the prison camp. She was about three years old when they were captured. Her father was a Baptist missionary and he died of appendicitis some time after they were taken prisoner. She was five or six when they were liberated. She told me it took several years for her to break the habit of licking her plate clean after meals. I urged her to write down all she could remember about the experience, but she said she wouldn't ever do that. She never explained why, but I figure that she just didn't want to relive it. She passed about eight years ago.
Folks, it was the GERMANS running this project. By 1943, Auschwitz was their main business model and they were killing about 2800 PER HOUR, but math is probably too hard for some posters here...
Folks, it was the GERMANS running this project. By 1943, Auschwitz was their main business model and they were killing about 2800 PER HOUR, but math is probably too hard for some posters here...
Folks, it was the GERMANS running this project. By 1943, Auschwitz was their main business model and they were killing about 2800 PER HOUR, but math is probably too hard for some posters here...
I’ve been to Dachau concentration camp outside of Munich. The crematorium and showers/gas chambers are still intact and all Bavarian school children are required to visit the camp. If this didn’t happen as some have suggested the Germans are still doing a great job keeping the conspiracy alive.
Glad I went but don’t care to go back, it’s a very touching experience.
Forensic pathologist Dr. Charles P. Larson was assigned by US military authorities the job of performing autopsies at Dachau, and personally completed thousands of them. He concluded in his report that none had died from any sort of poisoning, gas, injection, or otherwise, but rather had died from various diseases, which had risen to epidemic proportions in the camp.
There was no gas chamber there. You've been propagandized. The official story about a gas chamber at Dachau was abandoned in the 1960s, found to be a fraudulent claim.
Holocaust historian, Dr. Martin Broszat of Germany's Institute of Contemporary History, stated in a 1960 letter that appeared in the German weekly Die Zeit that, "Neither in Dachau, nor in Bergen-Belsen, nor in Buchenwald, were Jews or other prisoners gassed." The dead, he concluded, were the victims of horrible conditions in the camps, leading to deadly disease.
I’ve been to Dachau concentration camp outside of Munich. The crematorium and showers/gas chambers are still intact and all Bavarian school children are required to visit the camp. If this didn’t happen as some have suggested the Germans are still doing a great job keeping the conspiracy alive.
Glad I went but don’t care to go back, it’s a very touching experience.
It really is. I visited Mauthausen in Austria once and Theresienstadt in CZ and Auschwitz in Poland two times. The gas chamber in Mauthausen wasn't filled with Zyklon B by just dropping the pellets into the chamber. The substrate was warmed and then directed into the chamber with pipes. There were also gas chambers in hospitals for mentally retarded people like in Hadamar. The gas chambers in Majdanek still exist. Even the bills for the iron doors with their rubber seals still exist. All doors are to be opened to the outside of the chambers. Although the gas chambers in Dachau were "only" just tested they were not used for mass murder like in Auschwitz.
The "gas chamber" at Auschwitz was a prop constructed by modifying a multi purpose structure found there when liberated by the Soviets. The structure, as found by the Soviets, contained multiple rooms, including a bathroom in the center with a functioning toilet. The Soviets quickly tore out all the interior walls, the bathroom and toilet, constructed holes in the roof with ports (supposedly for dropping Zyklon B pellets into the chamber below), and slapped on a memorial plaque identifying this as the Nazi gas chamber they had been propagandizing about during the war.
You have to be good at searching the internet to find the following video anymore, because it was long ago banned from YouTube, and is now even disabled from viewing at BitChute. You have to wonder what they are trying to hide (not): Link to video
Notice the emaciated condition of the corpses, evidence of death resulting from a long bout with disease, and/or other prolonged catastrophic conditions, but particularly characteristic of death from typhus, a known issue in the overcrowded conditions in the camps near the end of the war.
Poor camp guards must have died by the thousands due to the supply chain disruption, their emaciated bodies thrown in pits with the Jews. Where's the stories of their suffering?
There must have been countless poignant stories of the Germans tireless battle to procure food to feed these poor starving Jews. You know, the one's they rounded up and put in boxcars. The Jews must have magically and tragically walked away from their lives, homes, and businesses and locked themselves in these camps and asked the Germans to conduct experiments on them while working and starving them to death.
The_Real_Hawkeye evidence of death resulting from a long bout with disease, and/or other prolonged catastrophic conditions,
"Other catastrophic conditions."
Those Germans sure did try to save those poor people, but they simply insisted on dying by the millions, to spite the Germans best efforts to save them. Very uncooperative those people, going and dying like that.
Looked to me like a pretty good gas chamber and ovens at Dachau when there.....I don't think the Germans were cooking turkey.
A friend and neighbor was on the Bataan March. He said that probably the only reason he survived was he ate anything that walked, flew, or crawled. The ones that wouldn't died of malnutrition or of related conditions. I never knew of a GI or marine that had the least bit of sympathy for the Japanese.
I certainly have no doubt of the efficiency of the German Killing Machine. In addition to Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the mentally deficient. How many of the French POWs, political undesirables, or simple slave laborers made it home after the war?
Perhaps they all just decided they preferred to live in Germany?
Poor camp guards must have died by the thousands due to the supply chain disruption, their emaciated bodies thrown in pits with the Jews. Where's the stories of their suffering?
There must have been countless poignant stories of the Germans tireless battle to procure food to feed these poor starving Jews. You know, the one's they rounded up and put in boxcars. The Jews must have magically and tragically walked away from their lives, homes, and businesses and locked themselves in these camps and asked the Germans to conduct experiments on them while working and starving them to death.
Yeah, I can see that happening.
LOL
TRH, you have got a BIG problem.
And vaccines are magnetic too, wrought with 5-G phone transceiver technology that makes your heart clot up when the Tractor Beam from Midas 22 is engaged.
Regardless whether death was via gas, experimental medical procedures, spread of disease in overcrowded concentration camps, starvation, shot, stabbed, bludgeoned, forced labor till dropped dead, etc., etc., etc... the undeniable goal of The Final Solution was mass genocide...
gen·o·cide /ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group "a campaign of genocide"
I’ve been to Dachau concentration camp outside of Munich. The crematorium and showers/gas chambers are still intact and all Bavarian school children are required to visit the camp. If this didn’t happen as some have suggested the Germans are still doing a great job keeping the conspiracy alive.
Glad I went but don’t care to go back, it’s a very touching experience.
Forensic pathologist Dr. Charles P. Larson was assigned by US military authorities the job of performing autopsies at Dachau, and personally completed thousands of them. He concluded in his report that none had died from any sort of poisoning, gas, injection, or otherwise, but rather had died from various diseases, which had risen to epidemic proportions in the camp.
There was no gas chamber there. You've been propagandized. The official story about a gas chamber at Dachau was abandoned in the 1960s, found to be a fraudulent claim.
Holocaust historian, Dr. Martin Broszat of Germany's Institute of Contemporary History, stated in a 1960 letter that appeared in the German weekly Die Zeit that, "Neither in Dachau, nor in Bergen-Belsen, nor in Buchenwald, were Jews or other prisoners gassed." The dead, he concluded, were the victims of horrible conditions in the camps, leading to deadly disease.
Dachau was not an extermination camp like Auschwitz. It was for other prisoners-- political and others arrested--A friend of mine spent time there. Another man I worked with was a pathologist in the US Army who went into Dachau just after it was taken by the Army and he did autopsies on the recently died and those who died after liberation. He had his copies of the reports -- many hundreds of them--and I read a bunch of them. But, it's apples vs. oranges comparing those two 'camps'. I also knew a man who survived Auschwitz. It was as has been presented-- an extermination camp.
What does Ellis Island have to do with Nazi concentration camps?
It was suggested that the existence of cremation ovens is evidence of genocidal activities.
Might it not be the numbers and locations of those cremation ovens, along with photographic evidence of mass graves, testimony from survivors, testimony from captured officials, not to mention captured NAZI government documents that would lead a whole bunch of folks to believe there were some
"genocidal activities"
going on in Germany and the surrounding German controlled lands?
What does Ellis Island have to do with Nazi concentration camps?
It was suggested that the existence of cremation ovens is evidence of genocidal activities.
Might it not be the numbers and locations of those cremation ovens, along with photographic evidence of mass graves, testimony from survivors, testimony from captured officials, not to mention captured NAZI government documents that would lead a whole bunch of folks to believe there were some
"genocidal activities"
going on in Germany and the surrounding German controlled lands?
What? When did all this happen? OMG it sounds horrible.
Looked to me like a pretty good gas chamber and ovens at Dachau when there.....I don't think the Germans were cooking turkey.
A friend and neighbor was on the Bataan March. He said that probably the only reason he survived was he ate anything that walked, flew, or crawled. The ones that wouldn't died of malnutrition or of related conditions. I never knew of a GI or marine that had the least bit of sympathy for the Japanese.
Regardless whether death was via gas, experimental medical procedures, spread of disease in overcrowded concentration camps, starvation, shot, stabbed, bludgeoned, forced labor till dropped dead, etc., etc., etc... the undeniable goal of The Final Solution was mass genocide...
gen·o·cide /ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group "a campaign of genocide"
Looked to me like a pretty good gas chamber and ovens at Dachau when there.....I don't think the Germans were cooking turkey.
A friend and neighbor was on the Bataan March. He said that probably the only reason he survived was he ate anything that walked, flew, or crawled. The ones that wouldn't died of malnutrition or of related conditions. I never knew of a GI or marine that had the least bit of sympathy for the Japanese.
I became acquainted with an old nazi back in 1990, who worked as head mechanic on a large private resort island off the coast of Belize. I befriended him over time though the illicit supply of pint bottles of schnapps on that alcohol banned island. He had originally come to Belize via Guatemala in the 70's and due to his age and reclusiveness I knew he had a story to tell. It wasnt anything sinister but was interesting and unique. He had no reason to lie to me and was sane. I dont think he had shared his past with anyone else over the 20 years he has been there. Maybe I loosened him up with the stories my stepdad had told me about his times in hitler youth. But before I tell his story I will get into his view of the jews. Of course I asked him and his reply was they were like a disease that had infected German society. He said they were starting to control the financial systems of his country which controlled about everything else in the country. ( sound familiar?!). And boy did he hate Jews! He would not shake the hand of a Jew. I found that out once when I played a joke on him with a friend who announced his fake name on introduction.
Anyhow here is the WW2 story: Schmitty was born into a family of machinists. At the beginning he was with the Panzers in North Africa keeping the tanks running. And then one day some suited guys came to his camp and took him and another machinist away. He had no idea what was going on and wasnt told anything until he was in Sweden waiting to be loaded on a freighter for the US, along with a handful of other German machinists. They were all shuttled ashore on the north coast of US at night and picked up by American agents who spoke German. He would up working at a large facility somewhere by the Great Lakes called GW Machine works or something like that. I dont exactly remember but I do remember his asking me if I knew what the GW stood for. I did not and he told me is was German for 'Grosse Versten'. Now thats the first half of the story. The second half is that he fought on both sides of the war! After he had worked and trained at the GW plant he was then 'drafted' into the seabees and wound up in the south pacific for the duration of the war. When I met old Schmitty he had bad prostate cancer and was toughing it out. He died a few years later.
What does Ellis Island have to do with Nazi concentration camps?
It was suggested that the existence of cremation ovens is evidence of genocidal activities.
Might it not be the numbers and locations of those cremation ovens, along with photographic evidence of mass graves, testimony from survivors, testimony from captured officials, not to mention captured NAZI government documents that would lead a whole bunch of folks to believe there were some
"genocidal activities"
going on in Germany and the surrounding German controlled lands?
What? When did all this happen? OMG it sounds horrible.
Well, to be honest.....................maybe it didn't.
Like the moon landing, it was all made up for TV.
I mean, honestly.............do y'all really think dudes have walked around up there?
Looked to me like a pretty good gas chamber and ovens at Dachau when there.....I don't think the Germans were cooking turkey.
A friend and neighbor was on the Bataan March. He said that probably the only reason he survived was he ate anything that walked, flew, or crawled. The ones that wouldn't died of malnutrition or of related conditions. I never knew of a GI or marine that had the least bit of sympathy for the Japanese.
This is the only thing that gets me. Everything about the Holocaust is about the Jews. I'm of Ukrainian/Slovak descent and all the Slavs killed are mostly ignored.
Because in many Jews' eyes, slavs are the subhuman enemy. They do not talk about the number of slavs' deaths because slavs do not count.
FTR, I am not a slav.
============================
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
In a book first published in 1968, Legends of Our Time, Wiesel tells the story of that same visit to the rabbi this way: The Rebbe is troubled to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what he writes. “Stories,” Wiesel tells him, “…true stories”:
Quote
About people you knew? “Yes, about people I might have known.” About things that happened? “Yes, about things that happened or could have happened.” But they did not? “No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end.” The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: That means you are writing lies! I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify myself: “Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are—although they never occurred.”
Elie Wiesel admits to the same in several interviews and books over time. IOW, this is not some isolated quote taken out of context and twisted.
======================
FYI, here are some photographs of Union prisonerss kept by the Confederacy who survived the ordeal:
Liberated from a prisoner cmap outside of Richmond, Virginia
I visited the site of a UNION prisoner camp in Rock Island, IL. Reading the little placards and looking at the graves, it seems that typhus killed most of those who died. And a lot of them died, to include guards who came down with typhus. So even prisoners of the winning side tend to die in job lots during these large industrial age wars.
And similar photos can be had of prisoners of Japan, but time runs short.
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
Please explain what has been sensationalized about the systemic murder of six million people?
First off, you don't know how many people died from disease versus murder. There were also more than 6 million that died so I don't know why people always say 6 million.
Regarding the sensationalized parts, do you believe they were made into soap? Were they really made into lampshades? Do you believe the stories about the Nazis keeping a bear and an eagle in a cage and to feed Jews to them? There have been so many ridiculous stories that people pass off as truth. Another example is Irene Zisblatt and lying in the book The Fifth Diamond. It is such an absurd tale that when I read it, I realized that the Holocaust story has been corrupted by liars.
This is the only thing that gets me. Everything about the Holocaust is about the Jews. I'm of Ukrainian/Slovak descent and all the Slavs killed are mostly ignored.
Because in many Jews' eyes, slavs are the subhuman enemy. They do not talk about the number of slavs' deaths because slavs do not count.
FTR, I am not a slav.
============================
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
In a book first published in 1968, Legends of Our Time, Wiesel tells the story of that same visit to the rabbi this way: The Rebbe is troubled to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what he writes. “Stories,” Wiesel tells him, “…true stories”:
Quote
About people you knew? “Yes, about people I might have known.” About things that happened? “Yes, about things that happened or could have happened.” But they did not? “No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end.” The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: That means you are writing lies! I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify myself: “Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are—although they never occurred.”
Elie Wiesel admits to the same in several interviews and books over time. IOW, this is not some isolated quote taken out of context and twisted.
======================
FYI, here are some photographs of Union prisonerss kept by the Confederacy who survived the ordeal:
Liberated from a prisoner cmap outside of Richmond, Virginia
I visited the site of a UNION prisoner camp in Rock Island, IL. Reading the little placards and looking at the graves, it seems that typhus killed most of those who died. And a lot of them died, to include guards who came down with typhus. So even prisoners of the winning side tend to die in job lots during these large industrial age wars.
And similar photos can be had of prisoners of Japan, but time runs short.
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
Yeah, war is nasty. Between 8 and 11 million Slavs were murdered by the Nazis. Plus the Jews and Romani, etc. Probably a majority of the deaths in the camps were from a combination of malnourishment and disease. This idea that they were gassed with an insecticide makes a lot less sense than the Nazis fumigating them to prevent the spread of Typhus. It also seems a lot more cost-effective to murder prisoners with bullets instead of Zyklon B but the stories are less compelling that way.
Poor camp guards must have died by the thousands due to the supply chain disruption, their emaciated bodies thrown in pits with the Jews. Where's the stories of their suffering?
There must have been countless poignant stories of the Germans tireless battle to procure food to feed these poor starving Jews. You know, the one's they rounded up and put in boxcars. The Jews must have magically and tragically walked away from their lives, homes, and businesses and locked themselves in these camps and asked the Germans to conduct experiments on them while working and starving them to death.
Yeah, I can see that happening.
LOL
TRH, you have got a BIG problem.
Fireball2:
That is exactly what happened to camp guards in the North and South during the US Civil War. Moreso to the camp guards in the South, due to them being on the losing side of the war and Union disruption of Southern logistics.
In the real world, supplies and the logistical capacities to move them about are finite. I recall reading the translation of a report by a German officer who, after providing for his men and giving half-rations to local starving civilians, had nothing left for the prisoners they had taken.
To quote Elie Wiesel, "“Things are not that simple, Rebbe."
Looked to me like a pretty good gas chamber and ovens at Dachau when there.....I don't think the Germans were cooking turkey.
A friend and neighbor was on the Bataan March. He said that probably the only reason he survived was he ate anything that walked, flew, or crawled. The ones that wouldn't died of malnutrition or of related conditions. I never knew of a GI or marine that had the least bit of sympathy for the Japanese.
In the early 70's my parents took me to Bergen Belsen camp while touring in Germany. From what I remember, there really wasnt much but a large sign and an area of huge dirt humps with mowed grass and walkways. We also went to a clearing and found broken down domed brick building incinerators with big steel doors, a few of which still had chimney stacks. It was a pretty spring day and I remember how eerie I felt even though, being 12, I did not have a good grasp of the significance of this place. What I remember most though was how silent it was. There were no birds anywhere or bird noises in the bushes. It was so lush and green that there should have been spring noises everywhere.
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
Folks, it was the GERMANS running this project. By 1943, Auschwitz was their main business model and they were killing about 2800 PER HOUR, but math is probably too hard for some posters here...
LOL
Where's the humor?
I'm laughing at the absurdity of the #. Nothing else was going on at the time so they have plenty of time, resources and man power to off 2800 per hour for several years. Where are the bodies/remains/ash piles? That [bleep] doesnt just magically go away. All of the photographs were put out by the Russians. It's always been propaganda.
I'm laughing at the absurdity of the #. Nothing else was going on at the time so they have plenty of time, resources and man power to off 2800 per hour for several years. Where are the bodies/remains/ash piles? That [bleep] doesnt just magically go away. All of the photographs were put out by the Russians. It's always been propaganda.
I'm laughing at the absurdity of the #. Nothing else was going on at the time so they have plenty of time, resources and man power to off 2800 per hour for several years. Where are the bodies/remains/ash piles? That [bleep] doesnt just magically go away. All of the photographs were put out by the Russians. It's always been propaganda.
Forensic pathologist Dr. Charles P. Larson was assigned by US military authorities the job of performing autopsies at Dachau, and personally completed thousands of them. He concluded in his report that none had died from any sort of poisoning, gas, injection, or otherwise, but rather had died from various diseases, which had risen to epidemic proportions in the camp.
There was no gas chamber there. You've been propagandized. The official story about a gas chamber at Dachau was abandoned in the 1960s, found to be a fraudulent claim.
Holocaust historian, Dr. Martin Broszat of Germany's Institute of Contemporary History, stated in a 1960 letter that appeared in the German weekly Die Zeit that, "Neither in Dachau, nor in Bergen-Belsen, nor in Buchenwald, were Jews or other prisoners gassed." The dead, he concluded, were the victims of horrible conditions in the camps, leading to deadly disease.
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
Bingo!
I guess allowing one's prisoners to " die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like"
All if he photographs were put out by the Russians?
So, yes, indeed.
What about the death camps liberated by the American Army? General Eisenhower insisted that they be documented on film and video so that in future years people like TRH and BCBH could not lie about the holocaust or pretend it did not happen.
Once words like "denier" are introduced into an argument (in lieu of providing a counterargument), you are entering the realm of dogma. Dogma is a matter for religion, not history.
I'm laughing at the absurdity of the #. Nothing else was going on at the time so they have plenty of time, resources and man power to off 2800 per hour for several years. Where are the bodies/remains/ash piles? That [bleep] doesnt just magically go away. All of the photographs were put out by the Russians. It's always been propaganda.
Once words like "denier" are introduced into an argument (in lieu of providing a counterargument), you are entering the realm of dogma. Dogma is a matter for religion, not history.
I wasn't making an argument. I was ridiculing an idiot.
I'm laughing at the absurdity of the #. Nothing else was going on at the time so they have plenty of time, resources and man power to off 2800 per hour for several years. Where are the bodies/remains/ash piles? That [bleep] doesnt just magically go away. All of the photographs were put out by the Russians. It's always been propaganda.
So many here are victims of propaganda its not even funny. To the victors goes the history.
As for the interned Japs...its a damn good thing for them the US won the war. I doubt we'd have set them free...or fed them while our military starved. Buts thats just a guess.
Dont believe Russian or any other propaganda. Use your head for something other than a hat rack and read something other than an 8th grade level history book...it will blow your mind
I can go to a museum that promotes the idea of global warming...doesn't make it real.
Did the holocaust happen? Yes...but not in the way or for the reasons that most here seem to think it did.
I can only imagine that most here will not spend the time to watch the aforementioned video or do any research on the claims made in it...you have to dig but alas
All if he photographs were put out by the Russians?
So, yes, indeed.
What about the death camps liberated by the American Army? General Eisenhower insisted that they be documented on film and video so that in future years people like TRH and BCBH could not lie about the holocaust or pretend it did not happen.
Did camps exist? Yes. We had them here also. Where the German camps sole purpose to genocide? No, that's the lie.
Unlike the Katyn forest That was a true death camp
Not a camp, of course, but illustrative, because the Bolsheviks actually did commit intentional mass murder, and that on a scale that would have given Genghis Khan an inferiority complex. The left always accuses their enemies of doing precisely what they are doing in secret.
Did the holocaust happen? Yes...but not in the way or for the reasons that most here seem to think it did.
Yep, if the Holocaust means lots of people were mistreated and died in captivity, it did indeed happen, but all sides were guilty of that. You want to talk about real mass murder that went on during the war, you only need to look at the actions of the Soviets (many such instances). Then there's the British who intentionally firebombed civilians in heavily populated cities known to have zero strategic or military value as targets. Then there's the hundreds of thousands of surrendered German soldiers murdered on the order of General Eisenhower (for the purpose of carrying out the Morgenthau Plan - a plan to dramatically reduce the post-war German population, particularly able-bodied adult males, to the point where the remaining population would be permanently impoverished), intentionally killed via prolonged exposure, starvation, and denial of care. I could go on and on. There were war crimes aplenty during that terrible period in history, on all sides.
Did camps exist? Yes. We had them here also. Where the German camps sole purpose to genocide? No, that's the lie.
Hey Einstein, I hate to clue you in but a lot of the camps that Eisenhower documented were for the express purpose of killing Jews.
If you don't believe that, go ask Otto Frank.
Believe Otto Frank? LOL Maybe we should take Elliot Wiesel's word too while we're at it LOL
How many of Otto's family died in gas chambers?
The real atrocity is the intentional sacrifice of millions of gentile men for zionism from at least 1917 through today. The jews were even pestering Abraham Lincoln to create Israel for them during the Civil War. It's been in the works for a long time. The Scofield Bible was written by jews in order to help facilitate the mess the world is in now.
The result of WW2 was Liberalism/Communism (today's Globo-homo) smashing racial Nationalism. This is why white countries must be flooded w 3rd worlders today.
Forensic pathologist Dr. Charles P. Larson was assigned by US military authorities the job of performing autopsies at Dachau, and personally completed thousands of them. He concluded in his report that none had died from any sort of poisoning, gas, injection, or otherwise, but rather had died from various diseases, which had risen to epidemic proportions in the camp.
There was no gas chamber there. You've been propagandized. The official story about a gas chamber at Dachau was abandoned in the 1960s, found to be a fraudulent claim.
While Dachau was NOT an extermination camp like Auschwitz, Madjavek (sp), etc there was most DEFINITELY a gas chamber and crematorium. I just went and took out my old pictures. The Germans were pretty good at record keeping and labeling and the old signs still in their original place match pictures from the days after liberation.
I agree that camps like Dachau probably suffered more deaths from disease and malnutrition than died from “murder” but that ain’t saying much. 😉
While Dachau was NOT an extermination camp like Auschwitz, Madjavek (sp), etc there was most DEFINITELY a gas chamber and crematorium. I just went and took out my old pictures. The Germans were pretty good at record keeping and labeling and the old signs still in their original place match pictures from the days after liberation.
I agree that camps like Dachau probably suffered more deaths from disease and malnutrition than died from “murder” but that ain’t saying much. 😉
“I was in Dachau for 17 months after the war, as a U.S. War Department Attorney, and can state that there was no gas chamber at Dachau. What was shown to visitors and sightseers there and erroneously described as a gas chamber was a crematory. Nor was there a gas chamber in any of the other concentration camps in Germany.”
- Stephen Pinter (Our Sunday Visitor, June 14, 1955, p. 15)
You do realize that nazis actively avoided establishment of extermination camps on German soil, instead moving them to Poland to avoid concentrating Jews and other “undesirables” in Germany, or are you deliberately ignoring that fact? The six major extermination camps were all in Poland.
With that being said, I do think it’s great that Rick Bin maintains and profits from a space where outdoorsy Nazi-adjacent folks can speak freely.
Stuff your vagina back in and fugg off.
Phony ass virtue signaler.
Lol... who’s the butt-hurt one here....
I’m not signaling virtue and damn sure not claiming it. I’m calling out the fact that this forum (and the Right writ large) harbors some really bad people. No virtue required. Good thing, since I’m going to HELL, lol.
With that being said, I do think it’s great that Rick Bin maintains and profits from a space where outdoorsy Nazi-adjacent folks can speak freely.
Stuff your vagina back in and fugg off.
Phony ass virtue signaler.
Lol... who’s the butt-hurt one here....
I’m not signaling virtue and damn sure not claiming it. I’m calling out the fact that this forum (and the Right writ large) harbors some really bad people. No virtue required. Good thing, since I’m going to HELL, lol.
Send a complaint to the pussy hurt dept at the SPLC. I am sure you have the number.
You "moderates" are the biggest racists there are. So yeah...fugg off.
I have a customer that I was small talking with and she mentioned she didn't believe the Holocaust actually happen. It took me by surprise,as I have never heard of that thought before. While I was quite intrigued by her assumption,I didn't pursue the conversation. She is over 90,and German.
I have a customer that I was small talking with and she mentioned she didn't believe the Holocaust actually happen. It took me by surprise,as I have never heard of that thought before. While I was quite intrigued by her assumption,I didn't pursue the conversation. She is over 90,and German.
Very few older Russians believe that Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians with starvation.
Did the holocaust happen? Yes...but not in the way or for the reasons that most here seem to think it did.
Yep, if the Holocaust means lots of people were mistreated and died in captivity, it did indeed happen, but all sides were guilty of that. You want to talk about real mass murder that went on during the war, you only need to look at the actions of the Soviets (many such instances). Then there's the British who intentionally firebombed civilians in heavily populated cities known to have zero strategic or military value as targets. Then there's the hundreds of thousands of surrendered German soldiers murdered on the order of General Eisenhower (for the purpose of carrying out the Morgenthau Plan - a plan to dramatically reduce the post-war German population, particularly able-bodied adult males, to the point where the remaining population would be permanently impoverished), intentionally killed via prolonged exposure, starvation, and denial of care. I could go on and on. There were war crimes aplenty during that terrible period in history, on all sides.
Oh come on. There were some very fine people on both sides.
I have a customer that I was small talking with and she mentioned she didn't believe the Holocaust actually happen. It took me by surprise,as I have never heard of that thought before. While I was quite intrigued by her assumption,I didn't pursue the conversation. She is over 90,and German.
In Germany, even questioning some small aspect of the official story line lands you in prison. Thousands per year are imprisoned for that, even elderly women.
You do realize that nazis actively avoided establishment of extermination camps on German soil, instead moving them to Poland to avoid concentrating Jews and other “undesirables” in Germany, or are you deliberately ignoring that fact? The six major extermination camps were all in Poland.
Old70
After the war, US Military authorities claimed there were several gas chambers in Germany (to include Dachau). But because they were in the West, they were subject to examination by experts, and they were forced to quickly drop the claims. Those on the other side of the Iron Curtain, however, were not permitted to be critically examined, so the claims persisted unchallenged.
You do realize that nazis actively avoided establishment of extermination camps on German soil, instead moving them to Poland to avoid concentrating Jews and other “undesirables” in Germany, or are you deliberately ignoring that fact? The six major extermination camps were all in Poland.
Old70
After the war, US Military authorities claimed there were several gas chambers in Germany (to include Dachau). But because they were in the West, they were subject to examination by experts, and they were forced to quickly drop the claims. Those on the other side of the Iron Curtain, however, were not permitted to be critically examined, so the claims persisted unchallenged.
I’ve read a significant number of first hand eyewitness accounts from inmates and staff of the extermination camps. I tend to give those more credibility than anything produced from authors that weren’t there. The only motive for telling the story that I can ascertain would be to prevent it from happening again. You’ve obviously developed your opinion from sources you find credible as well. I believe however, your mind was made up and you cite sources to fit your preconceived, and I believe erroneous, ideas.
I’ve read a significant number of first hand eyewitness accounts from inmates and staff of the extermination camps. I tend to give those more credibility than anything produced from authors that weren’t there. The only motive for telling the story that I can ascertain would be to prevent it from happening again. You’ve obviously developed your opinion from sources you find credible as well. I believe however, your mind was made up and you cite sources to fit your preconceived, and I believe erroneous, ideas.
I have no reason to think my grandfather was full of it.
I believe everything Alex Jones publishes. Even that part about brass keys taking on ferromagnetic properties and sticking to people’s foreheads after getting covid shots.
I believe everything Alex Jones publishes. Even that part about brass keys taking on ferromagnetic properties and sticking to people’s foreheads after getting covid shots.
And graphite.
I think my vaxed neighbor car remote start his car now just by thinking about it.....
I have a customer that I was small talking with and she mentioned she didn't believe the Holocaust actually happen. It took me by surprise,as I have never heard of that thought before. While I was quite intrigued by her assumption,I didn't pursue the conversation. She is over 90,and German.
In Germany, even questioning some small aspect of the official story line lands you in prison. Thousands per year are imprisoned for that, even elderly women.
I did not know this, I guess they would want to bury that history.
I believe everything Alex Jones publishes. Even that part about brass keys taking on ferromagnetic properties and sticking to people’s foreheads after getting covid shots.
And graphite.
I think my vaxed neighbor car remote start his car now just by thinking about it.....
They are very open about what the nazis did and the necessity for prevention of a recurrence. The documentation center in Nuremberg is a fascinating museum that is very factual and forthright in nature. They don’t want what happened hidden.
I believe everything Alex Jones publishes. Even that part about brass keys taking on ferromagnetic properties and sticking to people’s foreheads after getting covid shots.
And graphite.
I think my vaxed neighbor car remote start his car now just by thinking about it.....
Uhhh
I believe it’s graPHENE
and it’s in Oreo’s too
Speaking of graphene, fools and rubes
Anyone seen Happy Camper lately?
Are you sure?????
Either way, it's pretty awesome to get superpowers, even if the nanobots do track you everywhere.......
Depending on the source 85% were murdered in the camp. Purportedly 960,000 Jews entered the camp and were immediately killed, gassed or otherwise. So no, starvation and disease were secondary.
HE112, what a depressing and horrible subject. There was some sort of "selection process" when people arrived there, however, if I remember correctly all Gypsies were killed, no exceptions. Whenever possible I avoid all German products now. The Ukrainians along with some Balkan populations were also bad, that is why I do not care if Russians invade them now. For example, in early to mid 1940s Ukrainian Nationalists killed tens of thousands of ethnic: Poles, Jews, Russians,...... What is more shocking is they actually consider Bandera a national hero and sometimes even display red and black flags.
Being captured by the losing side in an industrial age, continent-spanning war is a harrowing experience. Even with the best of intentions, huge numbers/proportions of prisoners will die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like without any ill will.
Bingo!
I guess allowing one's prisoners to " die from malnutrition, typhus, and the like"
doesn't constitute "ill will"????
Yes, you are confused.
World Wars don't come with Costco stores where camp commanders can tell the guards to "Buy in bulk and SAVE! (lives)"
Strategic bombing to deprive the enemy's military of supplies denies supplies the same to everyone else: civilian, prisoner, etc. Were all those B-17s somehow only bombing railroad track that transported military goods? And the naval blockades only denying food that would go to Axis military personnel?
The pig ignorance of basic realities never ceases to amaze me. Good will, bad will, doesn't much matter when the food doesn't exist or can't get there.
I know in Germany at the time there was a policy of exterminating the criminally insane, homosexuals, Jews and Gypsies. I would just like to hear both sides of the story as to why the German people hated the Jews so much. From all accounts it wasn't just the Germans that hated them. I know there's a huge amount of censorship and propaganda on the subject. I've heard anecdotal accounts of how the Germans were being ripped-off by them (not sure how true these accounts are). I guess we'll never find out the whole truth.
I know in Germany at the time there was a policy of exterminating the criminally insane, homosexuals, Jews and Gypsies.
Germans stole that from the US, where eugenic based policies sterilized tens of thousands, and led to tens of millions of planned parenthood abortions.
I know in Germany at the time there was a policy of exterminating the criminally insane, homosexuals, Jews and Gypsies.
Germans stole that from the US, where eugenic based policies sterilized tens of thousands, and led to tens of millions of planned parenthood abortions.
And it was legal.
The supreme kangaroos said so.
It was most popular in California.
My mother's nanny was forcefully sterilized in Virginia back in the late 1920s or early 1930s (I believe she was about 18 at the time). She was a little slow. Probably an IQ about 85. I knew her very well. She lived in a small house down the street from my grandparents, and was a daily visitor till she passed away from a heart attack in her home.
I know in Germany at the time there was a policy of exterminating the criminally insane, homosexuals, Jews and Gypsies.
Germans stole that from the US, where eugenic based policies sterilized tens of thousands, and led to tens of millions of planned parenthood abortions.
And it was legal.
The supreme kangaroos said so.
It was most popular in California.
My mother's nanny was forcefully sterilized in Virginia back in the late 1920s or early 1930s (I believe she was about 18 at the time). She was a little slow. Probably an IQ about 85. I knew her very well. She lived in a small house down the street from my grandparents, and was a daily visitor till she passed away from a heart attack in her home.
The US had eugenics laws that permitted the sterilization of anyone with a low IQ. She had a low IQ.
Not just the US. My aunt was sterilized in the early 50’s here in Canada because she was mentally retarded (a specific and accurate medical term that has fallen into disfavour).
We are now practicing 'reverse eugenics' in Oregon where we are giving trophies to the losers and we have eliminated academic excellence where the smart ones can only take the same tests that the dumb ones can pass. ( we being 'they' as most of us dont agree but thats politics and electoral weighted votes).
I know in Germany at the time there was a policy of exterminating the criminally insane, homosexuals, Jews and Gypsies. I would just like to hear both sides of the story as to why the German people hated the Jews so much.
The US had eugenics laws that permitted the sterilization of anyone with a low IQ. She had a low IQ.
Not just the US. My aunt was sterilized in the early 50’s here in Canada because she was mentally retarded (a specific and accurate medical term that has fallen into disfavour).
I’ll go on record being ok with sterilization of retards, mongoloids, and the insane.
Holocaust historian, Dr. Martin Broszat of Germany's Institute of Contemporary History, stated in a 1960 letter that appeared in the German weekly Die Zeit that, "Neither in Dachau, nor in Bergen-Belsen, nor in Buchenwald, were Jews or other prisoners gassed." The dead, he concluded, were the victims of horrible conditions in the camps, leading to deadly disease.
https://www.h-ref.de/zitate/gaskammern-altreich.php "Martin Broszat and the gas chambers in the "Altreich" Another abused professor As has been made clear several times in various places, the deniers of the murder of the Jews like to hide behind real or supposed authorities in order to give their lies credibility.
This is what happened with a statement that goes back to Martin Broszat. Sometimes in literal terms, but often only in indirect speech, the Holocaust deniers use a quote from this historian, which is supposed to show that there were no gassings in the "old Reich".
The quote appears indirectly in an article by Robert Faurisson, which is distributed by IHR, among others (own translation):
However, on August 19, 1960, this historian had to report to his astonished compatriots that there had never been mass gassings in the entire Altreich (German borders from 1937), but only in a small number of selected places, especially in occupied Poland, including Auschwitz and Birkenau, but not Majdanek. The weekly magazine DIE ZEIT learned this astounding news from a simple letter to the editor that was published on August 19, 1960 on page 16 (...) It would be extremely interesting to know:
How does dr. Broszat that the "gas chambers" in the Altreich were a hoax? How does he know that the "gas chambers" in Poland are real? Why do the "evidence", "certainties" and "eyewitness accounts" about concentration camps in the West suddenly have no value, while the "evidence", "certainties" and "eyewitness accounts" about camps in communist Poland are no longer of any value still remain true? Faurisson, The 'Problem of the Gas Chambers'[1] It will soon become clear that Faurisson stretched the truth a bit, but this cannot be avoided within the framework of the "revisionist search for truth". First, let's look at the version presented by another Auschwitz denier:
8/19/1960 DIE ZEIT page 16 Jews or other prisoners were not gassed in either Dachau, Bergen Belsen or Buchenwald. The gas chamber in Dachau was never fully completed and put into operation. Hundreds of thousands of prisoners who perished in Dachau or other concentration camps in the old Reich were victims primarily of the catastrophic hygienic and supply conditions. According to official SS statistics, in the twelve months from July 1942 to June 1943 alone, 110,812 people died of disease and starvation in all concentration camps in the Reich. The mass extermination of the Jews by gassing began in 1941/1942 and took place exclusively in a few locations that were selected for this purpose and provided with the appropriate technical facilities, primarily in occupied Polish territory (but nowhere in the old Reich): in Auschwitz-Birkenau, in Sobibor on the Bug , in Treblinka, Chelmno and Belzec. There, but not in Bergen Belsen, Dachau or Buchenwald, were the mass extermination facilities disguised as shower baths or disinfection rooms that your article talks about. This necessary differentiation certainly does not change one iota of the criminal quality of the establishment of the concentration camps. But it may perhaps help to eliminate the fatal confusion which arises when some unteachable people use individual correct arguments that are polemical and taken out of context, and when people rush in to reply who have the correct overall judgment but rely on false or faulty ones information."
dr Martin Broszat quoted by Manfred Koch[2]
Let us assume for the sake of simplicity that this reproduction corresponds to the printed wording [cf. facsimiles]. What did Broszat say? He said: In the "Old Reich" there were no mass exterminations of Jews. However, this is by no means an astonishing new finding; it has been known for a long time.
However, Broszat did not say that the gas chambers in the "Altreich" were a "hoax" and that no gassings had taken place there at all. There were certainly gas chambers in the "Altreich" that were also used. More than 100,000 people were murdered in the Nazi "euthanasia" campaign alone, many of them in gas chambers. The allusion to Majdanek in Faurisson's text is simply ridiculous. The fact that a historian does not mention a certain historical fact does not mean that the historical event in question never happened. This "logic" is so abstruse that any further discussion is unnecessary.
At the end of the Faurisson quote one can then see how the "revisionist search for truth" unfolds in all its glory. From Broszat's accurate account that the mass extermination of the Jews took place in the East, which by no means excludes the murders in gas chambers in the "Old Reich", Faurisson constructs the insinuation that Broszat had blanketly described the gas chambers in the "Old Reich" as a hoax.
Germar Rudolf accepts this distortion and writes succinctly:
First of all, it is interesting that the Institute for Contemporary History is revising the statement made by its former head, M. Broszat, who stated that there were no gassings in the concentration camps of the old Reich.
Germar Rudolf, Basics of Contemporary History [3] This kind of malicious misunderstanding is typical of the deniers of the murder of the Jews. They don't have facts, so they make whatever "evidence" they need.
In conclusion, it remains to be said that the Holocaust deniers run into a logical problem when they try to deny the gassings in the Old Reich, of all things, with a quote that clearly shows that mass gassings of Jews took place in the East.
I have a customer that I was small talking with and she mentioned she didn't believe the Holocaust actually happen. It took me by surprise,as I have never heard of that thought before. While I was quite intrigued by her assumption,I didn't pursue the conversation. She is over 90,and German.
In Germany, even questioning some small aspect of the official story line lands you in prison. Thousands per year are imprisoned for that, even elderly women.
There are a few, not Thousands. And mostly they are fined. And one of the elderly women is well known:
She comletely denies the holocaust. It seems o. k. and correct to say that there were camps with or without gas chambers without denying the holocaust at all and is completely off the track.
My friend and I got into a debate, she said most people who died in Auschwitz, died from the gas chamber, I said the greater number perished from poor diet, overwork and disease. The average life expectancy was 6 weeks to 3 months. I have read numerous books and autobiographies and the gas chambers came later in the camp's life, I think it was 1943. As it is doubtful that we will ever know the exact details, the Germans were meticulous record keepers. Anyone have an idea which two categories did the most killing?
Your friend is right. The Germans got in over their head early on. They could not kill them fast enough using the methods of shooting and carbon monoxide. It took until 1942 for them to introduce Zyclon B and the showers into the mix. By that time they were up to their eyeballs in undesirables. Furthermore, the bodies were stacking up. Previously, they had been burying them in trenches, but that was too slow. Along with the showers came the crematoria. On a good day, the Germans finally got up to 6,000 head being processed at Auschwitz.
The thing folks leave out of these discussions was that one of the big reasons Germans resorted to these means was that they found the other methods were far too hard on the guards. A normal fellow can only take so much of this sort of atrocities. They were turning fairly healthy young men that were needed at the front into gibbering idiots in a matter of weeks. The ones that weren't totally debilitated by the job were monsters. The gas chambers were an efficient solution in this way. It minimized the muss and fuss, and you could bring in the Sodorkommando to clean up. They could keep things going and not trouble the guards.
One of the questions that has haunted me in all this was where was all this going? The Ruskies built cities during the Cold War where all they knew how to do was build ICBM's. If the Politburo ever decided to stop making ICBM's, entire cities were going to starve. Think of this in terms of German Extermination, and let's just say Germany had come out on top. Where would the cleansing have stopped?
KYHillChick has had a really hard time tracking down my Dad's ancestors. The Eighth Air Force did a pretty good job of wiping out all the birth records in Germany with the bombing. However, she has recently found a genealogy site that draws on the records the Nazi's kept. These records were volunteered by German citizens in the 30's. You could register with the local office and they would take down your genealogy and keep it on file. Now that this data is public, it is doing a lot to fill in the gaps left from the bombing.
So here is what bothers me. You've got this well-honed extermination industry cranked up. You manage to get the Jew, the Gypsy, the Slav, and the Defective into the Gas Chamber. Now what? This is far too easy. What's next? All the black haired people? The Gingers? The Brunettes? My guess was that the Nazi's had not really figured this out, and were heading for a real surprise. This was not a process that could stop easily, and they had a database on half the country to work from.
If you're looking for an analog to this problem in our own society, look no further than the BATF. At the end of Prohibition, Roosevelt had all these soon-to-be unemployed government employees that had previously been chasing down bootleggers. Next thing you know, they criminalize marijuana, make all sorts of firearms illegal, and start chasing down untaxed ciggies. That's a little cottage industry that is not going to stop very soon.
The US had eugenics laws that permitted the sterilization of anyone with a low IQ. She had a low IQ.
Not just the US. My aunt was sterilized in the early 50’s here in Canada because she was mentally retarded (a specific and accurate medical term that has fallen into disfavour).
I’ll go on record being ok with sterilization of retards, mongoloids, and the insane.
No offense to your aunt.
My mom's nanny wasn't really what you'd call mentally retarded. She's what was called feeble minded. Not smart enough to keep up in school, but smart enough to have a simple conversation with, and to do basic kinds of jobs like looking after kids at the house. My grandparents had to work alternate shifts at the textile mill during the Great Depression, and she worked as a nanny for mostly room and board.
Friends, please stop being so candid by talking about your former family member. While topic is relevant because Germans had euthenasia hospitals where carbon monoxide and phenol injections were used to murder people, it is depressing. Most extermination camps were found in General Government ie German ruled lands full of Poles (rest was part of the Soviet Union or annexed into Germany). When discussing matter of concentration camps and the so called death camps word German does not appear only Nazi. To certain degree that is true because pile of Austrians and Ukrainians were involved in running those horrendous places. I predict in the future Slavs and Poles in particular will be deemed responsible for the Holocaust. I believe former President barack obama referred to those camps as "Polish Concentration Camps". I believe substitution of Nazi for German is part of that plan.
From a documentary I watched some time ago, the original plan was to just move these Jews, Gypsies etc. out of Germany to places like Poland. Then it was realized that it wasn't a good idea having an increasing number of hostile people right next door to you. Then the idea came about of transporting them to Palestine but the Arabs wouldn't agree to that. When that possibility was exhausted the "final solution" was arrived at...extermination in the death camps. Just wonder what other alternatives could have been pursued?
From a documentary I watched some time ago, the original plan was to just move these Jews, Gypsies etc. out of Germany to places like Poland. Then it was realized that it wasn't a good idea having an increasing number of hostile people right next door to you. Then the idea came about of transporting them to Palestine but the Arabs wouldn't agree to that. When that possibility was exhausted the "final solution" was arrived at...extermination in the death camps. Just wonder what other alternatives could have been pursued?
There was also a plan to move them to the Island of Madagascar, then a French Protectorate, but the logistics were just too difficult and besides, Jewish influence and the terrible deal made by the Brits at the Versailles Conference, guaranteed the "Jewish State" in Palestine at the expense of the people there. It is safe to say we wouldn't have many of these issues today with islam had they gone to Madagascar or of course had the Germans won
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