Waiting for handouts from the wise guys?

Dwayne nailed it.

Like the last shall be first?

wabigoon;
Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people... even those #*$! shepherds...

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

wabigoon;
Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

"The world upside down"?

Here's a hint:
[video:youtube]https://youtube/paidcontent[/video]

Here's another hint.

What did the religious leaders do when they got wind of this from the wise men?

One more....What did the political leader, Herod do and what was the fruit of his learning about the Christ child?

Do you have any guesses yet?
If you don't know the answer, then go back and watch the last video from beginning to end. It's not long. See what fruit was born by the announcement to the children.

Quit messin with Wabbi's thread. He's at least sincere you're a POS gutter trash poser.

Quit messin with Wabbi's thread. He's at least sincere you're a POS gutter trash poser.

No salty. Unlike you, I'm not a troll who gets his hit of pleasure by attacking the gospel.
Wabigoon started a great thread topic as usual.
I happened to have a biblical answer.
You've been following me for a while now and you have a purpose that Wabigoon and my Lord knows. I commit you to him. I think it's obvious by your unprovoked attack.

Now where's the religious leaders to come by and tell me how mean and unchristian I've been to poor old salty?

Wabi is cool but HC can get fugged.

wabigoon;
Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

It’s interesting that the shepherds were the first, low class common or everyman and Christ is the a Good Shepherd. The shepherd sheep analogy doesn’t seem to be well understood in the modern era. Maybe it never was and that’s why Christ was missed by those who thought that they were looking for Him.

So what Christian denomination is old Steve Anderson affiliated with, happy? The church of me, myself, and I?

And how much does he pay you to spread his word?

Quit messin with Wabbi's thread. He's at least sincere you're a POS gutter trash poser.

Trolling is in the eye of the beholder.

And, no, I don't live under a bridge.

No two ways about it, Christ was born to save us.

Are you not suing your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior?

At the time it occurred to me that the Bible does us humans no favors when it refers to us as sheep, you know?

Thanks for reading my ramblings and all the very best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

PS;
I got a ram the next year - in the big timber at about 80yds.

I need my beauty sleep good folks, off to dreamland.

May the Good Lord take a likin' to you.

IZH27;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the weather's behaving for you and that all who matter in your world are well.

When we were on the farm we had a couple lambs one year. One ate some leaves, bloated and died, then shortly after, the other one ran headlong into the stall and died.

Back in the early '90's we had a pretty decent herd of California Bighorns and I took up chasing them in hopes of catching up with a legal 3/4 curl ram.

Though most folks hunted them in the open hillsides, I quickly learned how to hunt them in the big old growth Doug Fir timber.

One time I recall distinctly now was that I saw a lamb from the spring and was able to keep it's mother behind a big Fir as I crept towards it. I was about 20' or a wee bit less from the lamb, who was frozen in fear and looking at it's mother for a cue, but she didn't see me.

As I cleared the Doug Fir, the old lady saw me and locked up too, looking slightly over her shoulder to what I took to be the lead ewe of the little herd I was in the middle of.

Finally the lead ewe bolted, then the mother and finally the lamb.

Mighty poor survival skills really I thought then and still do.

At the time it occurred to me that the Bible does us humans no favors when it refers to us as sheep, you know?

Thanks for reading my ramblings and all the very best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

PS;
I got a ram the next year - in the big timber at about 80yds.

??, I don't understand.

No two ways about it, Christ was born to save us.

Are you not using your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior?

Using...not suing...Spell check doesn't catch it when your misspelling results in a valid word.

By Linda Littlefield
Guest columnist

On the night of our Savior’s (Baby Jesus) birth, there were shepherds watchingtheir flock. And Angels appeared to them announcing that a child was born. They revealed, “this shall be a sign to you. You will see a baby lying in a manger wrapped in “swaddling clothes”.

These shepherds were extraordinary shepherds. They were called “Levitical Shepherds”. They had been chosen and trained to attend the flock of sheep that were to be used as sacrificial lambs in the Temple. Sacrificial lambs had to be “spotless and without blemish.” They required special treatment and observing. According to the laws of the time, the sheep that were used for the offerings had to be a one-year-old male sheep that had been outside for 365 days (one year). When they were ready, they were taken to Jerusalem to be sacrificed on the Sabbath in the Temple.

When the mother ewe was preparing to give birth, she was taken to a special birth place, or to the only cave designated, to give birth to the sacrificial Iambs. This cave was kept sterile and clean for the arrival of newborn sacrificial Iambs. The newborn lamb was immediately wrapped in clean swaddling cloths to protect them and keep them from blemish and danger. Swaddling clothes described in the Bible consisted of a cloth tied together by bandage-like strips. When the declaration was made to these Levitical Shepherds that watched their sheep in a special field full of sacrificial lambs, they apparently knew exactly where to go to discover that Baby. There were apparently many places that held mangers, but they comprehended immediately where to go to find the babe… to their cave, where their sacrificial lambs were born and wrapped in “swaddling clothes.”

Throughout our years we have heard, seen or listened to the Biblical account of the birth of Jesus. Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem. They traveled to Bethlehem because Caesar Augustus had declared that each person should travel to their town of origin to register in a census. Bethlehem was Joseph’s family village. This was proclaimed to insure that all citizens were correctly paying their taxes.

We know that when they arrived, the small town’s population had expanded significantly because of all those who had come to register. They could find no place to stay and Mary went into labor. They found a person who gave permission for them to stay where animals were sometimes housed. We understand that this was actually a cave and not a little barn type dwelling. As the Baby Jesus was born, it is reported that He was wrapped in “swaddling clothes” and laid in a manger (or feeding trough for the animals).

And these extraordinary Shepherds came immediately to the place where their sacrificial lambs were born to worship our Sacrificial Lamb.

As we enjoy beautiful lights and sounds and gifts this special time of the year. Let us not forget the miraculous beginnings of a Babe] who was called Jesus or Immanuel (God with us). He became our Sacrificial Lamb and is now our Shepherd.

Shepherds deemed so lowly and shifty their testimony wasn’t admissible in court.

wabigoon;
Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

Have any ideas why they were picked to be at the scene?

Have any ideas why they were picked to be at the scene?

What Shepherds? Mine says Magi.

What Shepherds? Mine says Magi.

What Shepherds? Mine says Magi.

Again, presuming fact not in evidence, specifically that he was even born.

You must be reading the events in Matthew. In Luke, the shepherds came the first night. The magi came as much as 2 years later. They had to travel all the way from somewhere near what's now Baghdad.

Jesus was mentioned by Roman and Jewish historians who had nothing to do with the Bible, who weren’t Christian’s, and who had no agenda.

Jesus was mentioned by Roman and Jewish historians who had nothing to do with the Bible, who weren’t Christian’s, and who had no agenda.

Most people (including agnostic and atheists)who study non biblical evidence “did Jesus live when the Bible said he did” come to the conclusion, he did. They may or may not believe him to be God, but they agree, he did exist. And was likely crucified, as the Bible says.

Hell will be filled with those experts.

The passage in Josephus's Antiquities of the Jew, Testimonium Flavianum, is clearly a forgery added by later Christian. The rest of the so called references get much later and further in time for the alleged events very quickly. They are not exactly high quality evidence to support claims of supernatural events.

In one passage of Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities, he recounts an unlawful execution, and he identifies the victim as James, the “brother of Jesus-who-is-called-Messiah.” And very few scholars doubt this account’s authenticity.

World reknowned Biblical scholar and agnostic/atheist Bart Ehrman disagrees with you.

https://www.history.com/.amp/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

Again, you are just presuming it exists. Christians love to trot out the threat of hell when they have no good response.

Once upon a time it was accepted that Moses existed, but now all the experts except as fact that we was a purely mythical figure, like Thor or Zeus. Scholarship is moving the same direction on Jesus.

Again, you are just presuming it exists. Christians love to trot out the threat of hell when they have no good response.

In one passage of Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities, he recounts an unlawful execution, and he identifies the victim as James, the “brother of Jesus-who-is-called-Messiah.” And very few scholars doubt this account’s authenticity.

World reknowned Biblical scholar and agnostic/atheist Bart Ehrman disagrees with you. He clearly said that “whatever else you may think about Jesus, he certainly did exist."

https://www.history.com/.amp/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/01/149462376/did-jesus-exist-a-historian-makes-his-case

And other's disagree with him. I'm familiar with Barts work, I own several of his books and subscribe to his blog. His book attempting to "Prove" the historicity of Jesus is considered his weakest work.

Shepherds were still a thing when this was painted.

since you don't believe in it, then you should not be offended at those who do.

There is no Moses. There is no Jesus. There is no heaven or hell. If I'm wrong, there's no loss as it will all just end when I die. It's all meaningless.
If you're wrong, you'll perish in a lake of fire.

Ps 53:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no-one who does good.

As God, Jesus and Paul said, it is an allegory. God, Jesus, the Temple, Heaven and Hell dwell within you.

There is no Moses. There is no Jesus. There is no heaven or hell. If I'm wrong, there's no loss as it will all just end when I die. It's all meaningless.
If you're wrong, you'll perish in a lake of fire.

Ps 53:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no-one who does good.

wabigoon;
Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.

If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.

Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.

The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.

Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

Now read that in something other than the archaic language of the KJV.

ESV:
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.
23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.
24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.
25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.

NIV
24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.

It's the interpretation that has 2 meanings, not the event itself.

Who are the caucasians and red heads?

Good points Dirtfarmer. Good post too. He did say that many who are first in this world will be last in the world to come; and the last, first.

Too many relate religion with faith. They're not mutually inclusive, and in fact can actually be mutually exclusive.

We will find out