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Campfire Kahuna
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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The sheapards were poor farmers tending their flocks
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge. Are you not using your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/11/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No two ways about it, Christ was born to save us. Again, presuming fact not in evidence, specifically that he was even born.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge. Are you not suing your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior? ??, I don't understand.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I need my beauty sleep good folks, off to dreamland.
May the Good Lord take a likin' to you.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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At the time it occurred to me that the Bible does us humans no favors when it refers to us as sheep, you know? Thanks for reading my ramblings and all the very best to you all this Christmas Season. Dwayne PS; I got a ram the next year - in the big timber at about 80yds. You are correct my friend. The purpose of religion is make the common people serve the needs of the rulers, i.e. sheep following shepherds who give unto Caesar that which is Caesar, and accumulate riches in Heaven while given away their wealth in this world in the form of tithes and taxes to human whom feel they are entitled to the labors of others. And Nice Sheep. A hind quarter from him would make a nice Christmas roast.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/11/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I need my beauty sleep good folks, off to dreamland.
May the Good Lord take a likin' to you. Good Night Wabi. God Bless.
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Campfire Tracker
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It’s interesting that the shepherds were the first, low class common or everyman and Christ is the a Good Shepherd. The shepherd sheep analogy doesn’t seem to be well understood in the modern era. Maybe it never was and that’s why Christ was missed by those who thought that they were looking for Him. IZH27; Good evening to you sir, I hope the weather's behaving for you and that all who matter in your world are well. When we were on the farm we had a couple lambs one year. One ate some leaves, bloated and died, then shortly after, the other one ran headlong into the stall and died. Back in the early '90's we had a pretty decent herd of California Bighorns and I took up chasing them in hopes of catching up with a legal 3/4 curl ram. Though most folks hunted them in the open hillsides, I quickly learned how to hunt them in the big old growth Doug Fir timber. One time I recall distinctly now was that I saw a lamb from the spring and was able to keep it's mother behind a big Fir as I crept towards it. I was about 20' or a wee bit less from the lamb, who was frozen in fear and looking at it's mother for a cue, but she didn't see me. As I cleared the Doug Fir, the old lady saw me and locked up too, looking slightly over her shoulder to what I took to be the lead ewe of the little herd I was in the middle of. Finally the lead ewe bolted, then the mother and finally the lamb. Mighty poor survival skills really I thought then and still do. At the time it occurred to me that the Bible does us humans no favors when it refers to us as sheep, you know? Thanks for reading my ramblings and all the very best to you all this Christmas Season. Dwayne PS; I got a ram the next year - in the big timber at about 80yds. Yes sir. The analogy is not flattering in any way. In fact, I believe that the truth of it is what is supposed to be offensive about the whole of the message. That’s one of the primary ways that I’ve found to weed out bad teaching. It seems to possibly be more important in this day and age than at any time there being so many different voices making claims. If man is elevated to a higher ability than that ewe and lamb it isn’t the Gospel. Thank you for good wishes. May you and your family be at peace this Christmas!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Think about what the Bible says about the birth. The shepherds found Jesus lying in a manger. It's always assumed from that that he was born in a stable. Not necessarily. The Bible doesn't mention a stable. A manger is merely a box of some kind used to feed animals. Jesus wasn't born in one. Mary couldn't have possibly got into one for the birth. It was just used for his bed.
Remember that every man in Israel who didn't live in his home town was on the road for Caesar's census. Robbers were common and it was dangerous to travel alone so they formed caravans and I'd say there's a 95% chance that Mary and Joseph were in one. They weren't alone. The pictures and stories we have of them alone on the road are nonsense. Every village had a central courtyard for travelers to camp. They would sell the travelers feed for their animals and had mangers in the courtyards to feed them in. Even the ones who could afford an inn had to have a place to care for their stock. If the inn was full, most likely any adjoining stable was full, too. Jesus quite likely was born while camped outside with the help of a local midwife.
Quite likely all the shepherds had to do was walk to the center of town to find him.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge. Are you not using your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior? ??, I don't understand. Using...not suing...Spell check doesn't catch it when your misspelling results in a valid word.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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No two ways about it, Christ was born to save us. Indeed my friend. Just came to mind by the Holy Spirit. Here's a couple more foreshadowing types. There's of course the coats of skins that were slain to cover Adam and Eve's sins. Genesis 3:21 (All KJV BIBLE) Able was the first shepherd 4:4 The LORD had respect unto Able and to his offering. Genesis 22:16 will remind you of a co.mon N.T. verse that also has a verse 16. Hint.....which is? Then in I Samuel 16:19; 17:15 A young shepherd who typified Jesus. Who was that? Shepherds had a special role of raising lambs for the sacrifices carried out by the priesthood. That was the highest and best use of anyone who was honored to have perfect lambs offered. I Laughed to see you use the same thing the young servant of Saul did when the Salty Saul resembled the king . LOL! 😄👍 I hope it worked on that unsavory salty spirit. I Samuel 16:14-23
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge. Are you not using your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior? Just a thought here…. Many see an important difference between the action of proselytizing and the act and purpose of apologetics.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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To proselytize it to try to sway a person to a religious faith or belief system. To argue agains the Christian is to present an argument for some other religion or possibly secularism. It would appear that engaging in a discussion against aspects of the Christian faith or the Christian faith in general would in part be an attempt to proselytize. Constantly engaging in attempts to counter the Christian faith would make a stronger argument.
Last edited by IZH27; 12/12/21.
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Why the shepherds, IDK. BUT
It seems shepherds were not held in high esteem.....
The job was looked down on. Either hired out of given to very young men with little to no standing..... yet.
David, the youngest, was a shepherd. The Egyptians despised the job, and 'hired;' it out.................
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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As Happy Camper said shepherds had a special role as caretakers of the flocks of sheep used for Temple sacrifices. Luke mentions three times in his account of Jesus about swaddling clothes being used for baby Jesus.Shepherds in that day also used swaddling clothes to wrap the first born male lambs and place them in a manger to check for blemishes,Those that were perfect were chosen for Temple sacrifices.Thus the symbolism of Jesus being wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger signifies his being the perfect sacrifice for all men. And for that I am so Thankful. Merry Christmas to All
1st John 4:7-8
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Trolling is in the eye of the beholder. And, no, I don't live under a bridge. Are you not using your question to proselytize for your Lord and Savior? ??, I don't understand. Using...not suing...Spell check doesn't catch it when your misspelling results in a valid word. lmao
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Here's an article about the sacrificial lambs. However, she goes on to say more than we know. I highlighted her invention that's not in the Bible. By Linda Littlefield Guest columnist
On the night of our Savior’s (Baby Jesus) birth, there were shepherds watchingtheir flock. And Angels appeared to them announcing that a child was born. They revealed, “this shall be a sign to you. You will see a baby lying in a manger wrapped in “swaddling clothes”.
These shepherds were extraordinary shepherds. They were called “Levitical Shepherds”. They had been chosen and trained to attend the flock of sheep that were to be used as sacrificial lambs in the Temple. Sacrificial lambs had to be “spotless and without blemish.” They required special treatment and observing. According to the laws of the time, the sheep that were used for the offerings had to be a one-year-old male sheep that had been outside for 365 days (one year). When they were ready, they were taken to Jerusalem to be sacrificed on the Sabbath in the Temple.
When the mother ewe was preparing to give birth, she was taken to a special birth place, or to the only cave designated, to give birth to the sacrificial Iambs. This cave was kept sterile and clean for the arrival of newborn sacrificial Iambs. The newborn lamb was immediately wrapped in clean swaddling cloths to protect them and keep them from blemish and danger. Swaddling clothes described in the Bible consisted of a cloth tied together by bandage-like strips. When the declaration was made to these Levitical Shepherds that watched their sheep in a special field full of sacrificial lambs, they apparently knew exactly where to go to discover that Baby. There were apparently many places that held mangers, but they comprehended immediately where to go to find the babe… to their cave, where their sacrificial lambs were born and wrapped in “swaddling clothes.”
Throughout our years we have heard, seen or listened to the Biblical account of the birth of Jesus. Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem. They traveled to Bethlehem because Caesar Augustus had declared that each person should travel to their town of origin to register in a census. Bethlehem was Joseph’s family village. This was proclaimed to insure that all citizens were correctly paying their taxes.
We know that when they arrived, the small town’s population had expanded significantly because of all those who had come to register. They could find no place to stay and Mary went into labor. They found a person who gave permission for them to stay where animals were sometimes housed. We understand that this was actually a cave and not a little barn type dwelling. As the Baby Jesus was born, it is reported that He was wrapped in “swaddling clothes” and laid in a manger (or feeding trough for the animals).
And these extraordinary Shepherds came immediately to the place where their sacrificial lambs were born to worship our Sacrificial Lamb.
As we enjoy beautiful lights and sounds and gifts this special time of the year. Let us not forget the miraculous beginnings of a Babe] who was called Jesus or Immanuel (God with us). He became our Sacrificial Lamb and is now our Shepherd.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Shepherds deemed so lowly and shifty their testimony wasn’t admissible in court. Shepherds were still a thing when this was painted.
Politics is War by Other Means
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wabigoon; Good evening to you my friend, I hope the weather is behaving down your way and you and your fine family are well.
If I recall correctly, at that time the shepherds and fisherman were considered the lowest class in a somewhat caste like society.
Proper accepted protocol for the announcement of the birth of a king or royalty would be to other royalty first, then descending levels of society got the news as it trickled down.
The biblical tradition of the shepherds being first to know then put the entire society upside down and lent credibility to the claim that this was truly for "all people" and not just the rich and privileged.
Something like that I'd imagine anyways sir.
All the best to you all this Christmas Season.
Dwayne That’s great perspective and very well said.
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