I bought a Remington 788 a few years ago, just because I love 788s mainly.
Also got one in .243 for my Daughter in Law to use, and you guys who know me have heard the .308 story.
Anyway, with winter setting in serious like I’m finally figuring on working up a stupid load, just to see how far I can push the envelope.
I’ve been shooting 55 grain blitz kings over H4350 for a while, but Ben sent me a bunch of 35 grain V-max.
With components as they are, I wanna use what I got instead of trying to locate powder I don’t have.
I bought some new cases, and I’m sitting on a bunch of 4350, both Hogdon and IMR. I’ve also got some IMR4064, and a couple pounds of H335 that I got for doing .223.
Suggestions? I’m gonna see how fast I can push them, and once It warms up I’m gonna work for accuracy.
7mm
4350 pretty slow for 22 250?
H380 and 4320 is what I generally use.
Don't think the case will hold enough 4350 for balls to wall speed. Faster powder needed, likely.
And,,, your gun your fun, but the faster you push, the quicker the barrel says bye.
35 grain V max likely to come apart before they get to the target anyway. Aren't those for Hornets & such?
Vapor trails like bottle rockets
They'll hold together, boost them with a big dose'T of Varget when you can find some.
I've used that bullet on close range crows & coon calling, hit like a lightening strike.
About 4450 -4500 fps. w/a 26'' barrel.
I used to use a lot of 3031.
I used to use a lot of 3031.
Yep
50 grains is a heavy as you need to go with the 250.
40 is fun as hell.
SLOW twists and light bullets are just fine...like old ass Mike said.
They'll hold together, boost them with a big dose'T of Varget when you can find some.
I've used that bullet on close range crows & coon calling, hit like a lightening strike.
About 4450 -4500 fps. w/a 26'' barrel.
And they fly like a paper airplane past 75 yards
I have 1 22-250 that loves 40g nbts over Benchmark at 4200 fps. I sold a very clean 788 22-250 at the bouse gun show last year way too cheap. I didn't realize they are worth more than $300 now.
Bb
Cartridge : .22-250 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 35, Hornady V-MAX 22252
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.350 inch or 59.69 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
113 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031 110.0 38.1 2.47 4465 99.8 62527 9507 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 105.5 37.8 2.45 4459 100.0 64000 8812 0.777 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 TZ *C *T approximation 104.9 37.8 2.45 4459 100.0 64000 8812 0.778 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 110.0 42.1 2.73 4455 97.6 63757 9868 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 94.0 35.8 2.32 4452 100.0 64000 9034 0.779 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 106.7 38.7 2.51 4440 100.0 64000 9377 0.810 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 101.2 40.4 2.62 4439 98.0 64000 9608 0.781 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 108.9 40.4 2.62 4435 95.7 64000 9899 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 96.4 36.9 2.39 4424 99.5 64000 9189 0.776 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 102.6 36.9 2.39 4424 99.5 64000 9189 0.776 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 105.9 39.2 2.54 4413 96.3 64000 9670 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 109.5 40.6 2.63 4407 95.0 64000 9740 0.789 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 109.5 40.6 2.63 4407 95.0 64000 9740 0.789 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 109.5 40.6 2.63 4407 95.0 64000 9740 0.789 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 103.5 41.9 2.71 4407 97.0 64000 9672 0.790 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 110.0 40.8 2.64 4406 95.6 63760 9728 0.790 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 108.6 42.9 2.78 4404 95.4 64000 9665 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 104.1 40.7 2.64 4404 98.6 64000 9409 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 106.5 40.7 2.64 4404 98.6 64000 9409 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 106.5 40.7 2.64 4404 98.6 64000 9409 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 100.4 35.1 2.28 4403 100.0 64000 8799 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 96.2 38.1 2.47 4403 98.9 64000 9288 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 *C (PCL223) 96.1 38.2 2.47 4400 99.0 64000 9272 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 108.4 43.8 2.84 4400 94.0 64000 9790 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 97.0 36.7 2.38 4399 100.0 64000 8521 0.794 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 106.1 39.3 2.55 4398 95.6 64000 9620 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 96.4 39.0 2.53 4396 99.0 64000 9250 0.784 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 106.9 39.0 2.53 4394 99.0 64000 9254 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 102.0 38.0 2.46 4393 97.1 64000 9390 0.782 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 *C 102.8 39.8 2.58 4385 97.1 64000 9409 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 40 100.0 37.8 2.45 4382 98.2 64000 9211 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 103.6 41.0 2.66 4380 95.6 64000 9509 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 105.7 37.2 2.41 4377 98.8 64000 9228 0.802 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 96.4 35.0 2.27 4376 100.0 64000 8608 0.799 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 100.8 40.2 2.60 4376 97.3 64000 9409 0.792 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 99.9 33.2 2.15 4374 100.0 64000 8283 0.767 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 104.2 38.6 2.50 4372 97.0 64000 9262 0.784 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 106.4 40.7 2.64 4369 95.6 64000 9426 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 107.3 38.9 2.52 4365 97.0 64000 9333 0.797 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 108.8 40.8 2.64 4365 99.0 64000 9203 0.790 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 95.2 33.0 2.14 4364 100.0 64000 8202 0.782 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 102.9 36.5 2.36 4362 100.0 64000 8648 0.794 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 101.8 38.5 2.49 4350 99.5 64000 8813 0.784 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 109.0 39.6 2.57 4350 99.3 64000 8871 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 99.6 39.6 2.57 4350 97.9 64000 9132 0.801 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 99.3 39.6 2.57 4350 97.9 64000 9132 0.801 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 109.3 39.1 2.53 4350 97.0 64000 9213 0.798 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 96.9 37.1 2.40 4345 97.7 64000 8996 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 110.0 39.7 2.57 4342 96.9 62441 9312 0.803 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 110.0 39.7 2.57 4342 96.9 62441 9312 0.803 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 110.0 41.7 2.70 4342 93.0 63376 9489 0.797 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 97.9 38.9 2.52 4341 97.8 64000 9009 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 97.9 38.9 2.52 4341 97.8 64000 9009 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 94.2 33.8 2.19 4341 100.0 64000 8310 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 106.1 41.9 2.71 4337 93.1 64000 9357 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1 NT *C ~approximation 95.4 34.3 2.22 4335 99.1 64000 8565 0.771 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 104.2 41.6 2.69 4335 95.5 64000 9143 0.788 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 96.2 33.5 2.17 4333 99.3 64000 8476 0.770 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 110.0 40.1 2.60 4331 94.7 61633 9289 0.789 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 109.6 42.0 2.72 4329 93.4 64000 9274 0.792 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 94.8 37.4 2.43 4328 97.7 64000 8899 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 90.9 30.8 2.00 4327 100.0 64000 7850 0.768 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 103.0 37.6 2.44 4324 97.6 64000 8894 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 98.6 39.6 2.56 4324 96.4 64000 9015 0.795 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 110.0 41.2 2.67 4323 96.0 59939 9556 0.819 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 110.0 41.2 2.67 4323 96.0 59939 9556 0.819 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 103.0 38.8 2.51 4322 93.4 64000 9122 0.784 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP2 NT *C ~approximation 105.0 38.6 2.50 4318 96.0 64000 8947 0.784 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 102.9 35.6 2.31 4315 100.0 64000 8248 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 108.9 36.9 2.39 4315 100.0 64000 8303 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 42.1 2.73 4314 94.3 59208 9590 0.809 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 100.6 39.8 2.58 4314 95.4 64000 9062 0.791 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 90.3 30.6 1.99 4313 100.0 64000 7819 0.766 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 103.9 41.3 2.68 4313 93.0 64000 9189 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 97.1 38.3 2.48 4310 96.5 64000 8841 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 97.1 38.3 2.48 4310 96.5 64000 8841 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 102.7 41.1 2.66 4305 92.3 64000 9190 0.792 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 39.9 2.58 4305 98.7 58181 9438 0.846 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 105.7 38.1 2.47 4304 95.6 64000 8892 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 *C 92.6 31.9 2.07 4304 100.0 64000 7727 0.781 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 98.0 35.5 2.30 4304 100.0 64000 8226 0.787 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 30 91.0 29.7 1.92 4299 100.0 64000 7535 0.774 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 106.4 38.6 2.50 4298 99.5 64000 8569 0.796 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 109.4 42.2 2.73 4294 90.9 64000 9162 0.794 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 *C 97.7 33.1 2.14 4293 100.0 64000 7657 0.783 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 110.0 39.6 2.56 4290 94.0 61382 9165 0.797 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 104.9 38.4 2.49 4288 96.1 64000 8772 0.785 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 93.8 36.9 2.39 4279 97.0 64000 8634 0.786 ! Near Maximum !
I have 1 22-250 that loves 40g nbts over Benchmark at 4200 fps. I sold a very clean 788 22-250 at the bouse gun show last year way too cheap. I didn't realize they are worth more than $300 now.
Bb
That’s funny right there.
Out of curiosity, what is your 4350 load? I am also sitting on a bunch of it.
Varget, 4064 are definitely my favorites over the years. Bee loading for it forever.
I still have a M788 in .22-250 that I bought in 1974. Loads over the years have been 52 gr HPBT over IMR4895. Later I switched to 40 gr ballistic tips over IMR4895. My current load is 50 gr ballistic tips over IMR8208. All have been well under 1 MOA.
My primary target has been groundhogs.
CFE223 is an excellent powder choice for the 22-250. My load of 38 grains CFE223 behind a Winchester 55 grain SL averages 3827 FPS in a 24" barrel
I still have a M788 in .22-250 that I bought in 1974. Loads over the years have been 52 gr HPBT over IMR4895. Later I switched to 40 gr ballistic tips over IMR4895. My current load is 50 gr ballistic tips over IMR8208. All have been well under 1 MOA.
My primary target has been groundhogs.
I got my first rifle, a Rem 788 in 22-250 in 1977. I hunted woodchucks with it every chance I got and still would if I could find a woodchuck in Pennsylvania… I still have the rifle only changing the scope. I hunted deer with it too until I got stupid and had to get a “deer” gun. Cripes, I shot a lot of deer with 50gr Sierras in front of 34gr of 3031 and never had to track a deer. Watched all but two drop in their tracks and “runners” were dead within 30 yards. Yeah, then I got a 308 to wound deer with… Not the 308’s fault but mine for thinking it was a deer slayer no matter where I hit them. I was a naive teenager.
Anyways, as others are saying, 4350 is too slow and 4064 would be a better option.
I dropped 35 grains o H4350 over Federal large rifle primers in Winchester cases and then seated those 55 grain Blitz Kings.
It’s been cold out so I only shot a couple so I could examine the cases.
Ben thinks I can push those 35 grain slugs around 4500 FPS.
I admit I’d get a kick outta seeing that on the chronograph, but when I load I’m usually trying to find one hole groups.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a 788 South of $600. They’ve become something of a collectors item, Probably because they’ve got a well earned reputation as good shooters.
I’ve been keeping my eyes open for one in .223, but I’m thinking I’ve got too many already.
No safe queens though. I like to make stuff go bang!
7mm
Just a caution: the 788 is NOT a gun for pushing hot loads. You will rapidly set back those tiny locking lugs, resulting in dangerous headspace. The first clue will be cracked or separated cases.
The 788 bolt is rear locking, with three rows of three small lugs each. In normal use, only the first three lugs firmly engage. The middle row will just barely touch, and the last row never engages at all. Look at the wear on them and you'll notice bright metal on the first set, faint wear on the middle, and a pristine rear set.
Unless you've been hot loading. In which case, you'll see heavy wear on the front set, bright metal on the middle, and definite wear marks on the back set. By then, you have grossly excessive headspace. The gun is toast. Shooting beyond that level risks shearing off the front lugs entirely.
"I’m gonna see how fast I can push them..."
Buster: Be very careful with that 788 action. It is a rear lug action with a silver soldered on bolt handle that will need brazing if you lock it up and try to open it by heating on the bolt handle.
Ive got an old #1B in .22 250 and a #3 in .219 DW.
The load data that came w the DW runs 50gr NBT.
So was thinking just run that bullet in both.
I have a couple lbs of Varget ( also in the DW recipe ).
50 to 52 grain is what I send down range..3900and up is what i run them to.... Savage 12 with heavy barrel with a brake
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
I used to use a lot of 3031.
My favorite load for the thirty some years I shot the 22-250. Wore out two barrels.
60 gr Hornady spire point over 34.3 gr IMR 3031 with a CCI 200 proper.
Accounted for untold whistle pigs, a few fox and coyotes, and one deer.
14 inch twist is fine for the 60 gr Hornady, not so for the 60 gr bllistic tip.
50 grains is a heavy as you need to go with the 250.
40 is fun as hell.
SLOW twists and light bullets are just fine...like old ass Mike said.
You'll be hearing from my attorney mister,,, !!!
One of my favorites. I always used 50 gr V-max and 4064. Very happy with it.
50 grains is a heavy as you need to go with the 250.
40 is fun as hell.
SLOW twists and light bullets are just fine...like old ass Mike said.
You'll be hearing from my attorney mister,,, !!!
Do we have the same lawyer?
Just printed this page as evidence !!!!
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
My Remington 700 likes 55grain flat base bullets and Big Game 3700 FPS +-
Just a caution: the 788 is NOT a gun for pushing hot loads. You will rapidly set back those tiny locking lugs, resulting in dangerous headspace. The first clue will be cracked or separated cases.
The 788 bolt is rear locking, with three rows of three small lugs each. In normal use, only the first three lugs firmly engage. The middle row will just barely touch, and the last row never engages at all. Look at the wear on them and you'll notice bright metal on the first set, faint wear on the middle, and a pristine rear set.
Unless you've been hot loading. In which case, you'll see heavy wear on the front set, bright metal on the middle, and definite wear marks on the back set. By then, you have grossly excessive headspace. The gun is toast. Shooting beyond that level risks shearing off the front lugs entirely.
This ...
Adding that both the 788 and a 77 Ruger in my arsenal liked IMR 4895 for accuracy with many varied bullets. I will say I never loaded anything smaller than 45 grain projectiles.
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected...
Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome.
try it, you might find the same results
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected...
Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome.
try it, you might find the same results
Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself.
IMR4064 in my slow twist .22-250. 52gr Hornady.
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected...
Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome.
try it, you might find the same results
Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself.
If you overrun a bullet jacket and lead anatomy in the bullet comes apart and does not penetrate adequately it is not in good on animals. Real fast bullets may put holes in still targets very true. But the hunting situation is why fast twist small caliber rifles are getting popular. I have an eight twist 22-250 shooting 88 grain elds shoots plenty of speed very accurate and is very dear Worthy. But I keep the velocity down in that 3100 range
IMR4064 in my slow twist .22-250. 52gr Hornady.
This.
I have used 4895, 4064. 4320, H414, 4350 with good results.
IMR 4064 grains are larger than the other two medium burn rate powders but that never was an issue for me.
As Jeff Foxworthy would say, “If you think SLOW BULLETS blow through steel, you might be a _______”
😂
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/prNR03Nd/98-D82330-FDEF-4-CEE-AEAA-0-C8660951-B98.jpg)
With both of my 22-250's, I had, they were not fussy at all. I shot IMR 4895 , 4064 and 4350 , H414, H380 ( military ) and likely some others . The both liked Sierra 52 gr. hollow points the best. My Savage 12v in .223 Rem. seems to like Varget the best and a 52 gr. Hornady or Sierra .
Mine settled on 38 gr of H380 and 52 gr Hornady’s. Not extremely hot but hot enough and ACCURATE.
Or is it the 53gr match…..Have to go check.
Every gun I have does pretty well with my hand loads, and the shotguns and rim fires either shoot or get traded off.
Actually since I don’t shoot trap anymore and Wifey don’t want another dog, my shotguns don’t see as much use. My trap partner died, and without a rabbit dog, and since shells are hard to come by, I got no use for them.
I’ve got a couple 16s and a Mec loader for them. Other than that I devote most of my time into shooting and loading for rifles here at home.
Ben was pretty exited about shooting over a chronograph, and I was thinking about seeing where the limits are.
But as others have pointed out, speed kills barrels and actions as well as animals.
I’m gonna experiment a little, but I like my guns too much to risk hurting them.
7mm
My Savage 12FV loves a 40 gr. ballistic tip over enough 4064 to hit 4,000 fps. This load has inducted countless ground squirrels into the Red Mist Club.
I scored a few pounds of CFE223 I'm anxious to try this spring. I haven't found a ball powder that groups as well as 4064, but it would be nice if CFE223 turns out good so I can use a Dillon powder measure on my RL550.
CFE is good, but I have also had good luck with 2000mr, which is also a ball powder.
Dont frown on 748 either
I’ve got almost all extruded powder, other than the H335 such is flake.
I got a Lee Perfect Powder Measure years ago, and it does really well with extruded powder. I set it to throw .2 or .3 grains under what I’m using, and trickle in the rest.
I like to use a powder that will mostly fill the case, so you can spot any goof ups before the Bullet gets seated. About the only tools I use that are new is an electronic scale.
I broke down and bought one when my Lyman balance scale got wobbly.
7mm
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected...
Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome.
try it, you might find the same results
Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself.
If you overrun a bullet jacket and lead anatomy in the bullet comes apart and does not penetrate adequately it is not in good on animals. Real fast bullets may put holes in still targets very true. But the hunting situation is why fast twist small caliber rifles are getting popular. I have an eight twist 22-250 shooting 88 grain elds shoots plenty of speed very accurate and is very dear Worthy. But I keep the velocity down in that 3100 range
I have a 1-14" ROT Ruger 77V and a Savage 16 Weather Warrior 1-12" ROT and I feed them 52-55 grain bullets for varmints and deer. If I want a heavier bullet I grab a 250-3000 Savage 99 or Ruger 77 and load 87 grain Speer HotCors.
No flies on 335..Use it.
BL-C, 335, 748..Pick one..Use it...There isnt much more than a grain or so difference
H380 3031 have been good for mine
As Jeff Foxworthy would say, “If you think SLOW BULLETS blow through steel, you might be a _______”
😂
You do understand that Seafire is talking about thin skinned bullets, varmint bullets, right.
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates.
Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected...
Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome.
try it, you might find the same results
I can’t say I’ve seen completely opposite results but definitely not the same. Not positive on the thickness, either 3/8 or 1/2, but when I hit them with a 50gr bullet loaded upwards of 3600fps, it bores a hole through them every time. But, I never shot them with a slower 50gr bullet to see the result. Usually it was a 308 or something like that going quite a bit slower and they never penetrated completely. We were always amazed at the penetrating power of the 22-250. But, I’m always up for experimenting so I’ll load some stuff up and try them. Maybe this weekend if I can get through the snow to my shooting range.
I've got several of those plates around here somewhere....If I come across them, I'll post pics and you guys can derive your own conclusions...
bullets being used were Hornady 55 gr SP and FMJs...
Saw the exact same thing with Nosler 55 grain B/Tips in 6mm out of a 243...
What I am saying is this is where the structural integrity of the bullet overcomes the structural integrity of the steel plates...
]and then the exact opposite when speed is cranked up to 3100 fps MV...
maybe a target bullet or hunting bullets, It can be the exact opposite... I haven't really tested it...
but questioning it because you never saw it, I've stated the parameters that I have seen it happen...
So instead of jumping to conclusions, test it yourself...
I didn't post this just to be contrary and start an argument with someone... name calling comes naturally on its own on the campfire often enough...
on another note, I've had plenty of people question using Blue Dot for reduced loads.... with all sorts of variations of slander going with it..
but when I've asked them have they ever tried it... a common response would be "NO... I'm smart enough to not to have to..."
well people thought the world was flat once.... let your conscience be your guides...
42gr of Varget with a 40 gr Vmax one of my best varmint loads.
45 grn TSX for anything less than 100 lbs.
62grn TSX for anything less than 200 lbs.
I always used W760 for the ease of metering. It never shot real fast, but with 50g BT, it shot well and made me a fan of hunting prairie dogs on sunny winter days with snow on the ground.
I've got several of those plates around here somewhere....If I come across them, I'll post pics and you guys can derive your own conclusions...
bullets being used were Hornady 55 gr SP and FMJs...
Saw the exact same thing with Nosler 55 grain B/Tips in 6mm out of a 243...
What I am saying is this is where the structural integrity of the bullet overcomes the structural integrity of the steel plates...
]and then the exact opposite when speed is cranked up to 3100 fps MV...
maybe a target bullet or hunting bullets, It can be the exact opposite... I haven't really tested it...
but questioning it because you never saw it, I've stated the parameters that I have seen it happen...
So instead of jumping to conclusions, test it yourself...
I didn't post this just to be contrary and start an argument with someone... name calling comes naturally on its own on the campfire often enough...
on another note, I've had plenty of people question using Blue Dot for reduced loads.... with all sorts of variations of slander going with it..
but when I've asked them have they ever tried it... a common response would be "NO... I'm smart enough to not to have to..."
well people thought the world was flat once.... let your conscience be your guides...
With your reasoning that at velocities at 3100 and above, the bullet WON’T penetrate regular steel, it just splatters, and at lesser velocities the steel is defeated, it follows that every bullet fired under the “magic” 3100 fps mark should penetrate steel.
Steel plates on every range should be full of holes from slow bullets!
C’mon man!
I always used W760 for the ease of metering. It never shot real fast, but with 50g BT, it shot well and made me a fan of hunting prairie dogs on sunny winter days with snow on the ground.
W-760 or H-414 (same powders) have always been my go-to powder for the 22-250 with 55 grainers
Velocity is the true enemy of your AR500 target. At 100 yards I have seen .22-250 rounds go through 3/8" thick AR500 steel. The fast velocities (above 3,000 fps at impact) concentrated on a small caliber round create a lot of heat and pressure where it strikes the target. This in turn creates the pits that slowly (or quickly) chip away at our targets. In the picture below you can see the difference 50 yards makes to the target. I highlighted the diameter of the actual pitting because at 100 yards the pit is so shallow that the lead splatters outside of the actual "crater" and removes some paint making the pit look larger than it is in the photo. At 50 yards the pit is deeper with more defined edges resulting in no paint being removed. In most cases, the thickness of the target has no bearing on the amount of damage that it will sustain, the benefit to going thicker is that it won't warp from larger caliber rounds. One exception being .22-250 wherein it will poke holes in 3/8" thick AR500 and will only leave a large crater in 1/2" thick AR500 leaving the other side of the target in good shape.
tl;dr... Keeping the velocity of whatever round you're using to a minimum will increase the lifespan of your target. Anything about 3,000 fps at impact will drastically reduce the the lifespan of your target.