saw a thread a while back touting the advantages of an auto transmission on a heavy duty truck.
for some reason I can't find it now.
Diesel truck, regardless of manufacturer, what is the consensus on transmission types?
towing between 10 and 18 k lbs. some hills mostly hwy.
think RV...
I prefer a manual in all trucks unless I am going to have a lot of stop and go traffic in a city. Problem is getting a manual in a newer truck is a tall order.
I drive an F 350 with a ZF650 manual. I tow about 12 to 13000 lbs. I hate the way an automatic "gear searches".
.I'll just change gears myself.
Would try to find a manual, just me
If you're buying new then a manual isn't an option anyway so it's a moot point.
Years ago I'd have said manuals were better, but the autos have gotten so good that they do everything better. The only reason for a manual nowadays is for nostalgia or just because you want one. I still love a manual in a sports car, but in a pickup give me the auto so I can let it do the work.
Been running automatic transmissions since 2014 without any problems. I'd still rather have a stick for a dedicated tow truck. But with the torque that the newer Cummins puts out they'll slip if you don't have a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate.
Heavy duty truck?
Are you fugging kidding me?
Class 6 7 or 8?
A control freak here. Driving a manual F350, but not hearing of any among the new rigs.
There's a reason why God allowed humans to invent air conditioning, elevators, and automatic transmissions - 'cause day's GOOD!
Both my diesel pickups are manuals.
Autos are nice for city driving or even mountain driving, but their disadvantages outweigh their advantages, to me at least. I like having which gear I want, not what the computer thinks I want. I have blown s few automatic transmissions over the years while towing, and I don't tow anything real heavy very often. My 99 Stroker and 91 Cummins both have their original manual transmissions and have zero issues right now.
I drove my manual 98 Dodge Cummins 20 years. Hunting season was right at 17,000 pounds, truck,trailer, loaded and really liked it. Wanted to get another manual.You can't find them on a lot now days. I am pleasantly surprised with this 2019 Chevy Duramax, w/Allison 6 sp auto. Especially the manual tow mode pulling up mountain passes.You can shift it just like a manual or let it do it's own thing
I have one of each.
2006 RAM 3500 DRW Quad cab G56 LOVE it. maybe tow 7-8 k lbs trailer with a mid sized tractor, otherwise it's a daily. .
2018 RAM 3500 HO auto with AISIN, towing my fiver across country.
just wondering what others tow a trailer with
I drove my manual 98 Dodge Cummins 20 years. Hunting season was right at 17,000 pounds, truck,trailer, loaded and really liked it. Wanted to get another manual.You can't find them on a lot now days. I am pleasantly surprised with this 2019 Chevy Duramax, w/Allison 6 sp auto. Especially the manual tow mode pulling up mountain passes.You can shift it just like a manual or let it do it's own thing
I have driven a few automatics with that manual tow mode feature. I keep forgetting that those options are available these days.
I'm too poor to have something that new right now anyhow but it is a good idea, in theory at least.
Auto now that they have been refined. Manual up until 7-8 years ago.
06 duramax allison auto with electronic manual.
Kent
Been running automatic transmissions since 2014 without any problems. I'd still rather have a stick for a dedicated tow truck. But with the torque that the newer Cummins puts out they'll slip if you don't have a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate.
Just a question, as I can't afford a new truck, even a Tacoma, but why the hell would ANY company sell a diesel rig, designed for towing, without putting in a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate? Why would a lighter duty set up in a manual trans coupled to a diesel motor even be an option?
Sheesh.
Been running automatic transmissions since 2014 without any problems. I'd still rather have a stick for a dedicated tow truck. But with the torque that the newer Cummins puts out they'll slip if you don't have a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate.
Just a question, as I can't afford a new truck, even a Tacoma, but why the hell would ANY company sell a diesel rig, designed for towing, without putting in a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate? Why would a lighter duty set up in a manual trans coupled to a diesel motor even be an option?
Sheesh.
Have you been in a coma for the last 10 years? You can’t buy a standard transmission in a truck to save your soul, but horses and campers are still being pulled all over the United States.
If you're buying new then a manual isn't an option anyway so it's a moot point.
Years ago I'd have said manuals were better, but the autos have gotten so good that they do everything better. The only reason for a manual nowadays is for nostalgia or just because you want one. I still love a manual in a sports car, but in a pickup give me the auto so I can let it do the work.
The other reason for a manual is that they are less likely to be stolen as fewer people know how to work a clutch.
Allison behind a Cummins is pretty good, but when you finish throwing hey off the back;
the foot race begins! I seem to be getting old and slow!
If you're buying new then a manual isn't an option anyway so it's a moot point.
Years ago I'd have said manuals were better, but the autos have gotten so good that they do everything better. The only reason for a manual nowadays is for nostalgia or just because you want one. I still love a manual in a sports car, but in a pickup give me the auto so I can let it do the work.
The other reason for a manual is that they are less likely to be stolen as fewer people know how to work a clutch.
I agree. All of my vehicles are manual transmission. My Tacoma is too and nobody has ever asked to borrow it when they move.
Fuggen hate automatics. HATE THEM. Hate how they rob the power. Hate how they take off going downhill. Hate how they 4 wheel. Hate how they are forever searching for gears. Hate the mileage. Did I mention how I hate how they rob the power from the engine? Oh, and let's talk about when they blow up on a hill fully loaded, in traffic. And how they cost thousands of dollars to "rebuild", and you WILL rebuild them. Ford trucks get about 60K before a rebuild. Used to anyway. Dodge made it 75K. Isuzu Amigo 4 wheelin truck made it 75K.
No friggen thanks. I'm cured never want to look at another automatic in my life.
Heavy duty truck?
Are you fugging kidding me?
Class 6 7 or 8?
Don't go there Jim.
That Pick-um-up-truck deys gots is a Big Truck.
Makes them feel manly.
Automatics have improved immensely over the last 30 years,
But I like to control as much in the vehicle as possible.
Even the manual shift autos aren't.
They will only let you start in 2nd, usually.
They also will not let you lock a gear and hold it. WOT.
Weird stuff the engineers don't want you doing, stuff you shouldn't do.
Except, starting in a higher gear can help you get going on slick stuff.
And every once in awhile, you just might want to be able to lock a gear,
go WOT, able to pedal it, or just go for the gusto. In that situation, shifting
can get you stuck, or it's damn hard on the tranny to be shifting gears while
you are pedaling. You and the tranny are working against each other, and
I've had them stinking pretty quick.
Been driving manual transmission vehicles most of my adult life.
Wife has 164,000. miles on her '97 4-Runner with manual transmission, and still has the factory brakes in it.
Using the gears to slow down makes a world of difference.
Recently bought a 2013 Jeep Rubicon with a 6 speed manual. LOTS of gear combinations with it!
It's the most fun vehicle I've ever owned!
Virgil B.
Fuggen hate automatics. HATE THEM. Hate how they rob the power. Hate how they take off going downhill. Hate how they 4 wheel. Hate how they are forever searching for gears. Hate the mileage. Did I mention how I hate how they rob the power from the engine? Oh, and let's talk about when they blow up on a hill fully loaded, in traffic. And how they cost thousands of dollars to "rebuild", and you WILL rebuild them. Ford trucks get about 60K before a rebuild. Used to anyway. Dodge made it 75K. Isuzu Amigo 4 wheelin truck made it 75K.
No friggen thanks. I'm cured never want to look at another automatic in my life.
You’ve not driven a truck past about 2010 then. Fidteen years ago I would have agreed with you. Today’s auto trans trucks get better mileage than the manual trans. My 2018 gasser gets 21 mpg most of the time. Agree with off-road sentiment.
I have been driving my first pickup, with an automatic transmission since 2008. It's a 2006 Duramax. It gets any job done that I have given it! The Allison 6 speed is great. I'm not a farmer, or rancher . I pull some heavy loads and lots of medium loads. No way would I go back to a manual for what I do with my pickup.
The assumption that you need a manual for towing is just, an assumption nothing else. Manuals have their place in four wheeling and such. Then we all know the 3/4 ton pickup isn't a four wheeling rig! For playing in the mud and rocks, I run an Izusu trooper. But thats for playing not everyday work, towing and driving.
There is a reason for automatic transmissions, ease of use, better mileage, and towing! Lack of basic maintenance on any type of transmission will be its downside. If you haven't used one for years, you would be pleasantly surprised, how the new automatic transmission excells in it's duties.
Compare towing ratings. Some manuals aren't up to what the autos can. That may have changed but I've noticed it in the past.
The last manuals in full size pickups were the Dodge 2500 and 3500's with the diesels. They dropped manuals in them a couple years ago so that's the end of them.
I have an '08 Dodge Cummins with a manual. With a heavy trailer, I just push the button for the exhaust brake, drop 1 gear, and have a cup of coffee while it eases me down a 6% grade. I love it.
Cars... automatic or hybrid.
Trucks... manual
4x4... manual
Equipment... SS or Hydro... SS is preferred.
----------------------------------------------
Manual is a rare rare option on anything new in 2022... like non-existent... 1 ton and under.
Compare towing ratings. Some manuals aren't up to what the autos can. That may have changed but I've noticed it in the past.
Do you think the company that makes money when you have to rebuild their automatic transmission might have a conflict of interest when they rate their automatics to tow more than a manual?
I'm not sure how the Dodge's dual density flywheels worked but they made clutch replacements a common repair. Mine went out at about 80k. The shop replaced the dual density flywheel with a different heavy duty type and told me that the clutch should now last the life of the pickup.
I am running a Pete with the Allison auto in it, doing propane delivery, both rural and city. No damn way I would prefer a manual for that. Long haul, a manual would be good for the hills. But I would hate it in town.
My 01 Ram 3500 drw has the 5 speed manual. Almost never use 1st, wish it had one more gear. Actually, wish it was an automatic. But I got it for half its worth, and use it solely to pull trailers and such, so the manual is fine. Next diesel pickup I buy will have an auto, might go with a Chevy just for that Allison transmission. been happy with the Cummins motors I have had, but Dodge vehicles always feel like they need another gear to me. A Cummins motor in a Ford truck with an Allison transmission would definitely open my checkbook with a snap...
Compare towing ratings. Some manuals aren't up to what the autos can. That may have changed but I've noticed it in the past.
Do you think the company that makes money when you have to rebuild their automatic transmission might have a conflict of interest when they rate their automatics to tow more than a manual?
Dunno. Not if they puke a transmission in less than 36k lol
I have a manual but when the pickup market cools down (if ever), I might replace it with an auto. I'm getting older and shifting isn't as much fun as it used to be. Last winter I had shoulder surgery on my left side. If it had been on the right, I wouldn't have been able to drive it for a couple months.
Vehicles with manual transmissions should also be equipped with a hand crank for starting, kerosene lanterns for headlights, and clincher rim wheels. Theyre all the same kind of obsolete. My father, who was the first man in Nashville Tennessee to work on automatics back in the late 1940's, put it this way- - - -"Automatic transmissions are smarter than all drivers, and most mechanics- - - -it's impossible to get one in the wrong gear!" Smart man- - -I miss him every day!
saw a thread a while back touting the advantages of an auto transmission on a heavy duty truck.
for some reason I can't find it now.
Diesel truck, regardless of manufacturer, what is the consensus on transmission types?
towing between 10 and 18 k lbs. some hills mostly hwy.
think RV...
Have a friend with 20 plus rock trucks on the road. 80K gross. Combination of state road, interstate, city, and rural driving. 100% automatics in his work trucks. To best of my knowledge, 100% automatics in his new personal trucks used for pulling RV trailer, 10K toy hauler, boat. He has worked hard to get where he is. He would not be buying them if they weren't making (or saving) him money...
Compare towing ratings. Some manuals aren't up to what the autos can. That may have changed but I've noticed it in the past.
Do you think the company that makes money when you have to rebuild their automatic transmission might have a conflict of interest when they rate their automatics to tow more than a manual?
LOL...
47RE and RH eh?
I have a guy that can do a rebuild that even I can't blow up... and I blow up RE and RH constantly.
General FYI on Dodge transmissions behind a Cummins... or in general.
By design, they require a tremendously strong electrical GROUNDING.
i.e. if you ever have a Dodge auto acting all stupid on ya... fix and or add GROUNDING!
Compare towing ratings. Some manuals aren't up to what the autos can. That may have changed but I've noticed it in the past.
Do you think the company that makes money when you have to rebuild their automatic transmission might have a conflict of interest when they rate their automatics to tow more than a manual?
No, why would you think that? Most people who have transmissions fail, manual or automatic, don't take them to the dealer for repair! Those that do are under warranty or they have more money than sense!
Are you guys kidding. My last Jeep even had an auto. Stop , start quail hunting was killing my knees. Auto really helped with that. Hasbeen
Strikeu: Never owned an "automatic" transmissioned pickup truck - never will.
Best of luck to you with whichever one you decide on.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
General FYI on Dodge transmissions behind a Cummins... or in general.
By design, they require a tremendously strong electrical GROUNDING.
i.e. if you ever have a Dodge auto acting all stupid on ya... fix and or add GROUNDING!
General FYI on Dodge transmissions behind a Cummins... or in general.
By design, they require a tremendously strong electrical GROUNDING.
i.e. if you ever have a Dodge auto acting all stupid on ya... fix and or add GROUNDING!
Didn’t you just get an Isuzu trooper? I had an auto transmission problem that turned out to be an electrical/ground issue in one.
General FYI on Dodge transmissions behind a Cummins... or in general.
By design, they require a tremendously strong electrical GROUNDING.
i.e. if you ever have a Dodge auto acting all stupid on ya... fix and or add GROUNDING!
Your grounding advice is sound and I wouldn’t limit it to just the Rams/Dodges. Almost any vehicle will benefit from a few extra grounds. We run our race cars on the bitter edge and probably have 10 lbs of extra ground straps all over the car to kill electrical gremlins that want to hassle us. We use the old school braided straps.
Manual to go please.....and cut the onions and duck butter.
If I'm going to be pulling more than a 10 foot flatbed with a lawnmower, gimme a standard tranny.
Last manual I had......'14 Taco DC short bed.....
Was just a bit more fun to drive....was never in city traffic so that helped
But it's gone....all auto's now...4---5 & 6 speeds
Yep....three Toyoda's........one Chebby
If you're buying new then a manual isn't an option anyway so it's a moot point.
Years ago I'd have said manuals were better, but the autos have gotten so good that they do everything better. The only reason for a manual nowadays is for nostalgia or just because you want one. I still love a manual in a sports car, but in a pickup give me the auto so I can let it do the work.
The other reason for a manual is that they are less likely to be stolen as fewer people know how to work a clutch.
I agree. All of my vehicles are manual transmission. My Tacoma is too and nobody has ever asked to borrow it when they move.
While I'll concede the point that a manual is less likely to be stolen, I've gotta ask where you guys live that this is such a problem? I've has my 98 dodge diesel for 24 years and I can't remember the last time I took the keys out of the truck, if I removed them from the truck I'd likely lose them. They're either in the ignition or in the cupholder. It's the same with my house, I lost the key to it years ago and didn't get around to replacing it for 7 years, just left the house unlocked all the time.
It sure sounds like you guys live in some schithole places if you have to choose your transmission based upon the likelihood of it being stolen. If it's that bad where you live then move! Life's too short to live surrounded by a bunch of thieves.
Been running automatic transmissions since 2014 without any problems. I'd still rather have a stick for a dedicated tow truck. But with the torque that the newer Cummins puts out they'll slip if you don't have a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate.
Just a question, as I can't afford a new truck, even a Tacoma, but why the hell would ANY company sell a diesel rig, designed for towing, without putting in a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate? Why would a lighter duty set up in a manual trans coupled to a diesel motor even be an option?
Sheesh.
Along those same lines, why would a 24 gallon fuel tank be put in a diesel F250?
Why would it sprung for groceries so that one needs Timbrens or airbags if hauling a load or towing?
Love my ,95 Taco w/ manuel trans. For soft beach sand or hauling horses, AT.
How many offroad earth movers like the KW Dart dump truck that can park a full sized pickup truck in the bed have manual transmissions?- - - - - -exactly NONE! Ditto for anything used in mining or road construction- - - -they're all hydro drive of some sort.
Transmissions are like triggers.
You better know how to master them all.
My Cummins has a G56.
Just like a 1-ton pickup automatic transmission is just fine with me provided it holds up. Now a big truck like dump trucks the semis that's a different story not so sure myself about the automatics. I understand nowadays on your CDL license but if you take your test in an automatic you are still not licensed to drive the standard. Pretty much drove them all in a big truck from nine speeds to 21
Vehicles with manual transmissions should also be equipped with a hand crank for starting, kerosene lanterns for headlights, and clincher rim wheels. Theyre all the same kind of obsolete. My father, who was the first man in Nashville Tennessee to work on automatics back in the late 1940's, put it this way- - - -"Automatic transmissions are smarter than all drivers, and most mechanics- - - -it's impossible to get one in the wrong gear!" Smart man- - -I miss him every day!
"Impossible to get one in the wrong gear"?
That, is my biggest issue with an automatic.
The times it choses the wrong gear, or takes forever to get there.
Manual everything, and I'm not talking just transmissions. I hate automatic dingleberries that don't do what you want, or do what you DON'T want. Fly by wire excepted, but gosh almighty. Sometimes, I WANT the back end to come around!
Darn right Dave.
We had a good snow a week or 2 ago.
Plows were surprised, they did nothing.
Traction controll off, Fusion in 1st(because F'n Ford won't let me choose 2nd)
hill button pushed. Came off the highway to our road.
Digging and pawing around the turn and up the second hill...
"Why, in thee hell is my wife's van backed in the yard?"
Found out it stopped going up the hill, so she backed (downhill) in the yard.
When I ask if she chose 2nd or 3rd and turned off traction control...
"I forgot"
"You can't just forget! It will bite you in the ass everytime. Its not
meant to help you. It sacrifices going for not wrecking."
I hate nannies.
ABS can be as bad if everything isn't perfect.
2500, 3500 & 4500’s I’d take an auto. My 6500 has an 8.1l gasser and a 6sp ZF manual. No way I’d want an auto in it.
Have Two International 4700’s with Allison’s and they suck azz.
[quote=CashisKing
Didn’t you just get an Isuzu trooper? I had an auto transmission problem that turned out to be an electrical/ground issue in one.
Izzy is a manual
How many offroad earth movers like the KW Dart dump truck that can park a full sized pickup truck in the bed have manual transmissions?- - - - - -exactly NONE! Ditto for anything used in mining or road construction- - - -they're all hydro drive of some sort.
Good point, I had a sausage McMuffin for breakfast.
How many offroad earth movers like the KW Dart dump truck that can park a full sized pickup truck in the bed have manual transmissions?- - - - - -exactly NONE! Ditto for anything used in mining or road construction- - - -they're all hydro drive of some sort.
Shock load.
A gear transmission with a clutch can easy shock the drive train.
Plus, lugging it can do all kind of damage from harmonics.
Break every thing from cranks to axles.
Doesn't mean gears aren't more efficient or offer skilled operators
advantages. Just that other drives are less prone to abuse.
Really big rock trucks are often diesel/electric
Except...
Caterpillar's is a planetary gear drive. With a torque concerto.
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but I strongly feel the future should
be in dual clutch gear transmissions. I would be stronger in that, if Ford
hadn't screwed the pooch so badly. They ruined the reputation on a fine
design, by implementing it before theirs was ready.
A gear driven tranny should always be more efficient, and longer lasting.
Mpg numbers are affected by the driver on manuals, the design is
more efficient than a traditional automatic. The computer just makes
an auto look better by shifting more frugally.
Most real trucks that have automatics are not slush boxes.
They are computer controlled, servo shifted gear transmissions.
Again, the computer Nanny avoids shock loads, and forces shifts
be more efficient.
It's really 2 arguments.
Manual vs automatic.
Automatic shifted gear vs manual vs slushbox.
Offroad truck or smaller engine / bigger tire truck, I want a manual for the control. Daily driver, give me today’s autos with tow mode, sport mode, etc.
Regardless of your likes or dislikes the real reason behind the automatic transmission is twofold. Emissions and fuel mileage. A computer can achieve the regulatory goals much more consistently than a human.
Both of these requirements are a result of governmental regulations and are not related to providing a product that performs a job the way the user would want.
question, since my pickup has a manual - I haven't driven long distances with any of the new autos. How are these new 8 and 10 speed gas autos for holding on steep downhills with a heavy load? Do they have enough compression so you don't have to ride the brakes?
We have a Toyota Highlander with an 8 speed. I have to get down to 4th before I feel any compression at all.
Regardless of your likes or dislikes the real reason behind the automatic transmission is twofold. Emissions and fuel mileage. A computer can achieve the regulatory goals much more consistently than a human.
Both of these requirements are a result of governmental regulations and are not related to providing a product that performs a job the way the user would want.
We see this in semi trucks today. I new truck I ordered six months ago (and still five months to go for delivery, sigh) will be an automated transmission. In the real world, the automated transmission saves about 14% in fuel. Even professional drivers can't / don't match what the computer can do as far as saving fuel. The latest generations of engine / tranny combos integrate GPS into the shift pattern. For example, they'll let off the compression brake near the bottom of a hill and allow the rig to gain a bit more speed and let the momentum build up a bit to save fuel.
All that said, just give me my 13 speed and let me do my thing. I'm enough of a control freak to want to control everything I can control.
I use the jake brake on the diesel and it seems to be coupled to the transmission and works well. 19 Chev 2500. Older Ram had driver applied jake but this Chevy seems to do it's thing electronically. No experience with the newer gassers.
Regardless of your likes or dislikes the real reason behind the automatic transmission is twofold. Emissions and fuel mileage. A computer can achieve the regulatory goals much more consistently than a human.
Both of these requirements are a result of governmental regulations and are not related to providing a product that performs a job the way the user would want.
We see this in semi trucks today. I new truck I ordered six months ago (and still five months to go for delivery, sigh) will be an automated transmission. In the real world, the automated transmission saves about 14% in fuel. Even professional drivers can't / don't match what the computer can do as far as saving fuel. The latest generations of engine / tranny combos integrate GPS into the shift pattern.
For example, they'll let off the compression brake near the bottom of a hill and allow the rig to gain a bit more speed and let the momentum build up a bit to save fuel. All that said, just give me my 13 speed and let me do my thing. I'm enough of a control freak to want to control everything I can control.
That's fine as long as the guy right in front of you with the 35' 5th wheel towing a car dolly does the same.
Regardless of your likes or dislikes the real reason behind the automatic transmission is twofold. Emissions and fuel mileage. A computer can achieve the regulatory goals much more consistently than a human.
Both of these requirements are a result of governmental regulations and are not related to providing a product that performs a job the way the user would want.
We see this in semi trucks today. I new truck I ordered six months ago (and still five months to go for delivery, sigh) will be an automated transmission. In the real world, the automated transmission saves about 14% in fuel. Even professional drivers can't / don't match what the computer can do as far as saving fuel. The latest generations of engine / tranny combos integrate GPS into the shift pattern.
For example, they'll let off the compression brake near the bottom of a hill and allow the rig to gain a bit more speed and let the momentum build up a bit to save fuel. All that said, just give me my 13 speed and let me do my thing. I'm enough of a control freak to want to control everything I can control.
That's fine as long as the guy right in front of you with the 35' 5th wheel towing a car dolly does the same.
That's what the smart cruise control is for.......
For how we use our pickups out here in the mostly flat lands of eastern Montana, auto's rule.
I have zero desire to drive a manual transmission pickup.
Keep the engine within reco'd hp specs and the transmission should last quite awhile.