Back in the fall... Laura and I decided to update some vehicles with new. Most of our current stuff is VERY VERY long in the tooth. VERY VERY beat to fugg.

"New" is very unusual for me... I have owned/flipped 80++ vehicles in my life, but only ever bought ONE "New" (wife's insistence in 2009).

In November, we picked up a Sienna hybrid and put down $1k deposits on 3-4 more (exiting a deposit is instant if you decline a vehicle).

We picked up one of those yesterday (2022 Prius) and chatted with the sales/financing folks (they happen to really like us... i.e. we are buying more than one car... I am taking them a bushel of oysters... kinda thing).

Anyway... the Sienna... has gone up in value probably $4k-$5k (open market sale... not trade in). The backlog on getting a Sienna is over 100 names on a clipboard... and about 1.5 years out.

The backlog on hybrid Rav4s is 6-8 months. Probably 8+ in reality.

Similar or worse on hybrid Highlanders.

4-5 months on Hybrid Camry's, Corollas and Prius.

Not a single new car/truck on the lot "For Sale"...

Not a single allocation (car being built 2-3 months out) is available.

EVERYTHING is "make a deposit and get on the clipboard".

The Yen situation has kept prices low FOR NOW (i.e. no inflation YET).

The next drama is freight.

One of our deposits was for a Camry hybrid (built in Kentucky).

It was actually built before the Prius (Japan built) we picked up yesterday.

The Prius arrived from Japan a week ago... the Camry is still stuck in "Freight Status"... +/- 4 weeks now.

Crazy weird stuff.

Never in my life would I have considered a "New Car/Truck" as a winning or wise financial play... NEVER.

Seems like everything... every rule... flips on it's ear with Joey at the helm.

FYI... CRAZY low financing... and even a rebate on the Prius. WTF?

Nothing makes sense anymore.

---------------------------------------

Now to sell some fubar beaters.

WTS... 2005 Honda CR-V, weak transmission, 1/4 million miles, dash has more lights on than a pinball machine... 24HC special $10k (I paid $2,700)

WTS... 2007 Chrysler T&C, weak transmission, burns oil, bad radiator, 1/4 million miles, dash has more lights on than a pinball machine... 24HC special $10k (I paid $5,000)

WTS... 2010 Prius, 210k miles, couple dash lights... 24HC special $22,500k (I paid $22,500)

*Finance guy and 4-5 others bought the new Tundra... some are selling now (profit and/or because of computer drama)... the new Toyotas have LOTS of computers and sensors (most are outsourced and not Toyota built). The Tundras are built in Texas (NOT Japan)... there was some heavy discussion of lower QC in US and Canadian factories vs. vehicles built and shipped from Japan.

** Warranty. We bought the warranty (another first). Finance guy gave it to me at cost ($900 for 8 years B2B)... marked down from $3,600... mostly because he likes us... and I promised to bring another bushel of oysters.

Crazy weird times...

FYI... this a highly reputable dealer (5 Star kinda place).

I have had a Camry "on order" for 3 months, I bought one coming out of the rental fleet yesterday. Giving my 2014 Altima to the grand daughter to replace the '07 Camry (350K) she is is currently driving as she is headed cross state to Chattanooga next month to start school and volleyball. Hell when you can't buy a new car...

I would imagine that more than a couple of the names on various lists across the country - if you called them today and said "your car is here" - they'd decline with the state of things.

Those lists might have 100 names on it but only 60 actual buyers.

I kinda concurred with that... so I asked exactly that type question.

"IF we decline this new $27k Prius right now (4:30 PM) what would happen?"

"We would have it sold before closing today... The demand is that high Leonard."

*Trust a car salesman? Oh hell no...

These guys... YES

Talked to a guy that works at the Louisville Ford plant recently. He said they have an order backlog of over 300,000 Super Duty’s.

I traded a in a worn Toyota Tundra for a new F-150 last year. Their waiting list for a used Tundra had 11 names on it and that Tundra never was put out on their Lot and was never even listed in the dealership’s pre-owned inventory.

I’m glad I bought the new F-150 when I did.

As Cash has pointed out, it’s crazy out there.

DAMN...

300,000...

If they can make 10 a day that is 30,000 days

If they make 100 a day that is 3,000 days

If they make 1,000 a day that is 300 days

Laughing here!

Only you could break it down to meaningful terms. Well done.

I had told my guy the time frame I needed the second vehicle. He called yesterday and told me he had this one available and wanted to know if I was interested. I asked him about the deposit and the "Order" he said no problem if it fell off the truck tomorrow it would be gone in 8 hours. They just rolled my deposit to the purchase of the used car.

The '07, they gave me a list of 4 people looking for an around town driver, probably have it sold before the weekend.

Given Ford's sales for 2021 - their total capacity for vehicles is something like 10,600 a day. I know that's not specific to the F250/350 line but still. They make quite a few.

I'm curious. Real cars are very hard to get but how about EV's? Has the government managed to keep them available or are they in short supply, too?

The whole automotive supply chain is hosed. Parts availability, or a lack thereof, is impacting my business mote than I thought it would, and vendors are closing down like I have not seen before. Where there were about 7 good machine shops in our area 5 years ago, there is now 1, and I have engine machinework waiting to go to him. I'm on his schedule for the second week of August.

Tried to order a 2022 Renegade in dark green.
Wouldnt be avail til Aug, and that color not in our market.
No rebates either.

Built another in diff color, salesguy says they got a fully loaded 21 in that color. Bought it. Had 2 red ones.....and nothing since. All sold by the weekend....2 months ago

Some used ones proly from corporate fleet ive seen pop up at dealerships.

My guess is most new stuff is built to order.
Too much chit on mine.

May order a new one next yr. Wish mine had a hitch instead of sunroof.

A 3 yr old vehicle w half warranty gone , was within 5 k of a new one, of higher trim package.

Crazy.

Tiny bit of Google Fu on the SuperDuty.

https://fordauthority.com/2022/03/2...on-once-again-impacted-by-chip-shortage/

Tesla is increasing sales at 50% a year, they’re making cars at a pace of about a million a year (if Shanghai doesn’t get shut down again).

Their high end models are about 4-5 months out, the “low end”, still 50K cars, are a year out and Tesla is probably going to quit taking orders on those for a while.

BMW, VW, etc, much the same story, but small volume (Tesla is still about 80% of the EV market). The Ford Lightning is sold out for the next three years.

I have a Ford pickup on order (not a Lightning), and it’s going to be end of summer, probably.

I ordered a new F350 on 02/10/22. My build is listed as “unscheduled, clean”. I asked my sales guy what it meant and he said the parts are all there but not the labor or scheduled slot to put it together. He also said that the Superduty transmission plant has 7,000 transmissions ready to go…usually have less than 500 on hand. He stated there are tractor trailers full of engines sitting at the truck plant in Louisville. When I put in the order I was told 6-8 months.
I ordered a Kia Telluride last fall. They told me 4-5 months. It took 4. They wanted me to pass on the deal when it came in because they said there are other’s that would pay over MSRP that day. I bought it. Salesman delivered it to the house as part of the deal. I asked him what I can get out of it right then. He said if you list it today, you’re a fool for taking any less than $12k more than you are paying. He said the demand is that high.

I call BS on a "Chip Shortage".

Think about it...

Really really? The USA cannot solve a chip problem on a trillion dollar industry in THREE FUGGING YEARS?

Horse chit...

Every time I get near the Toyota dealership they try to buy my 2017 Tundra TRD PRO. They had no new vehicles on the premises when I was there last week. On the other hand, they seem to be shipping a couple of RORO’s full of SC made Volvos, BMW’s and Mercedes out of the port of Charleston each week.

Parts availability is getting worse by the day. Got a guy that does racks and dock work for me. Says you could shoot a gun through the main NAPA warehouse in town, and not hit anything. Says he has never been to a warehouse that looked like it was just opening up. Very few parts on the shelves.

So people looking to fix their car or get it fixed, are finding parts unobtainium. Part of the reason in my opinion the used car market keeps getting worse.

For my company, a simple gearbox takes months to get here. No inventory, and they have to "make" or put something together.


Clyde

Building a Fab is expensive and a ton of red tape. Takes a while too.

Why the chips are made overseas....toxic processs

Couldn't find the Super Duty numbers, but total F series (150, 250, 350 combined) are in the ballpark of 800,000/year.

I would charge you extra if you brought me a bunch of nasty oysters.

Local Toyota dealer actually on the lot per their website as of right now (they list a whole bunch in-transit, these you could go buy today):

1 Camry
1 corolla
1 corolla hatchback
1 Hilander
1 Hilander Hybrid
2 Rav 4
1 Rav4 Hybrid
1 prius
1 Tundra

You're in construction - how long to put up a building of 700k square feet and install all the necessary pieces and components inside to make chips? Ok - now how long to get the environmental approvals for all the nasty raw products needed for that - on-site?

Glad I bought my 4Runner and paid it off when I did. 24K on it now.

Weirdest thing last week. Door lock actuator went bad on passenger side front. Hustled to get it fixed while still under warranty. Service writer told me it would have been ~ $500, otherwise. Sheesh..

My buddy ordered a new Bronco Sasquatch edition almost a year ago. No idea when it will arrive. This country is as F’d up as I’ve seen it in my 62 years.

Ron

Three problems with the chip thing:

1. Automakers do not use the latest technology when it comes to processing chips. They use what is known as legacy chips (low margin) that few manufacturers are willing to continue making.
2. Chip demand is exponentially higher as virtually everything made today has a chip in it somewhere. In addition, cars went from a handful of computers to virtually every system has multiple processors attached.
3. And finally, it takes billions and years to ramp up a new plant and who wants to spend that money on low margin processors?

So the chip shortage is real and will continue for potentially years to come.

I would solve the problem in the same way Trump would... Utilize an existing facility (US, Mexico, Canada et al) and gear up (refit/modify) the existing chip plant. Throw a chit ton of money at it and stuff would happen at the speed of light. Money is a phenomenal lubrication to most any problem. Cars, trucks, planes, trains, heavy equipment is Trillions of dollars of industry... sitting idle... begging China for chips. Bullchit on that.

Two slots of the 4 place toaster went tits up recently. What are we gunna do if we get company for breakfast, eat croissants or some schit??!

We really living on the edge out here.

I do NOT disagree with that summary (you or Teal).

Make the Chips a HIGH MARGIN item. If a chip for a $85,000 truck costs $100 to make (WAG)... throw $1k at it. Get the trucks sold.

ZERO logic in letting Billions in inventory just sit... when the fix is a 1% hit.

I bought a new Dodge 3/4 right before the virus hit. It’s an 18 with 20,000 miles. They try to buy it every time I take it to dealership for service. It has a lifetime power train warranty, so I have have dealership do the service.

Set up a GO FUND ME page... I'll be glad to help you!

It is crazy, ordered a 22 Tacoma off road back in jan. Only add on was led lights. Truck just got to Chicago on Wednesday. Dealership says still be 3-6 weeks before it arrives ready to purchase. Was told same truck now is 8-9 months out if “ordered” today.

Crazy times

Can they get the chips to run the machines to make more chips?

Within a year and a half of the start of WWII, we were making planes, ships, guns, tanks, you name it.

Two years plus since the start of Covid, and these mfgrs still haven’t come up with a way to make some relatively low-tech chips (vs. cutting edge stuff), or standardize their platforms to the point that they don’t need multiple varieties of chips. Everyone just keeps pointing at the other guy, hoping they’ll get caught up “eventually”...

Everything points to "The Great Reset".

When you can't make sense of things with your worldview, get a different one.

Why don't you catch a ride to Chicago and pick it up? They may be lying to you.

Took Jeep 12 weeks to deliver our new Cherokee. Ordered my 2022 Tundra hybrid last September and am still waiting, they are now saying summer delivery. I did receive a call from my salesman on a straight gas Tundra that someone ordered but failed to qualify for financing. My Toyota dealership had one new car in stock, they have taken to posting images of vehicles that they will be receiving with an expected delivery date and selling them before they arrive. FJB

I wonder what happened to the 30-40,000 trucks sitting in parking lots waiting on chips to be installed.
I managed to get a 7.3L Superduty that was built in December. Only lasted 2 day on the lot.

Funny,
I did a quick dealer inventory search of the dealers within 50 miles of me. Drove 30 miles and bought a loaded Cherokee Trailhawk off the lot. It was 98% of what I had in my build and price.
Did the same thing with 3/4 ton Chevy and Ram pickups. Plenty out there if you aren't that picky about your options.

Ordered my 22 Lincoln Aviator Dec. 1, 21, arrived March 17, 22
When I ordered the $65,000 vehicle I asked if they needed a deposit.
They said No, you can cancel the day it arrives if you don't want it for any reason, said it would be gone in a few days with the demand they have for that SUV.
Traded in my 2012 Expedition with 100,100 miles on it, they gave me $14,000, check back with the dealership a few days later to see what it was listed for on the lot, could not find it, checked with my salesman and he said it was sold the next morning off a waiting list they have. He said a 100K miles is considered low mileage for a 10 year old car. I didn't ask what they got for it, but I"m sure I would have just shaken my head.

Little bro just did the same. Literally decided he wanted a new GC - walked on the lot and bought one.

Wife and I both picked up 2022 Tacomas these past few months locally. Bought them sight unseen from factory on the dealerships next shipment. Lots of choices for us and very easy transactions. Less than 1 week delivery....

YMMV ..

It will all come to end soon and some people will be up side down for years to come.

Especially those who bought nearly new for more than new prices rather than wait.

I would think the wait might be a useful tool for negotiating price.

How might that work?

Trying to follow the logic.

Thanks

There is little to no negotiation in this market…If you want it, put your money down and wait. If you don’t want it, someone is waiting in line for it.

Last year I bought my wife a 2017 Jeep Wrangler. It had to be purple and it had to have a manual trans, so 2018 was as new as we could go (they discontinued Purple for 2019 and newer). I am now being hounded by sales folks that tell us our Jeep is worth $10K more than we paid for it. Huh?? The only problem is I can't get a replacement. Our previous Jeep, was a 2003 and ran good. That was the only New car I've ever bought. I was all proud of myself, about 3 years ago, when I bought myself a new to me pick up. It is a 2000 F-350. To me, that is still a newer truck, but in other people's eyes, it is old and useless. I'll take my slow 7.3 PSD, 6 speed manual over anything new they are now offering.

When you say "ran so good" - how many miles? I like jeeps, I really want to like them but I also like 180k miles before I get rid of something. Dumping 1200 into a jeep every quarter doesn't interest me.

Brief explanation about the chip shortage. Lex Friedman and the CEO of Qualcomm

Welcome to living in a third world country now, and it will get worse

Yeah but think how many lives were saved by shutting everything down and being scared to death.

I still laugh At the guy who posted about being afraid to [bleep] in public bathrooms because of aerosolized fecal matter that hung in midair waiting for the next person to use the toilet and infect them with the dreaded Covid 19.

An acquaintance of mine ordered a new F-450 five months ago.. Picked it up two weeks ago.. No biggie.

That was antelope sniper.

We are good with driving what we’ve got in the stable here. I see no sense in participating in the madness. Dealing with those people is bad when there’s stock available. They hold all the cards now.

It is hard to believe that America used to be the land of plenty, but Covid and Biden have made it the land of Pathetic.

Only 2 years ago, you could go to any car dealer and choose the car or truck in your desired color and equipment right off the lot. Thanks to Biden and all the Pandemic window lickers that bought both loads of garbage, we deal with the residue of those bad choices.

I decided that now was a great time to get a new truck, if I could play the waiting game. My 2012 Ram would never be worth more and a new truck would never be less.

I sold the Ram and rolled the dice to see how long it would take to get the new truck. I went to the local dealer, spec’d out what I wanted and within a couple days, they told me they had a slot to build my truck if I was serious.

I said yes, went to the dealership and put $1.000.00 down and they told me 3-5 months. That was January 28. I picked it up on the 25th of April, just short of 3 months. It is a great truck, I am not a patient person, but I do have a 2022 Chevy Silverado in the garage.

All things considered, I count myself lucky. But if you consider this is 2022 and with the advancement of industry and technology, it is a shame to live in the greatest country in the world and live with the same shortages we endured during WWII…

Vehicle engine bay electronics need to be robust.
Hence older technology.
Mounting them to ceramic is better than Fr4...when doing ECM and many other. Depends on what power devices on the substrates too.


Figure a car has interior electronic stuff that is supposed to work in a wide range of temps.

Aint like a laptop PC that is expected to burn up in a couple yrs

Hybrids and electrics are for traitors.

We ordered 3 dodge fleet trucks October 2, 2021 and they are still not available.

YEARS ago... Laura wanted a Prius (this was 2009) and the Prius was the new generation 2010 with the VVT engine.

I am a geek... I do math. Here is the math.



We still have the Prius... She drove the Prius AND I spent all the money we saved on guns, ammo and beer.

Have a nice day!

No amount of math can compensate for driving up to any parking lot and getting out of a Prius…

Consider yourselves lucky...

No offense intended...

Horse chit

Sounds to me like Cash smiles all the way to the bank.
RB

I ordered an accord EX-L hybrid last year. It showed up in January and we took it for a ride and I didn't really like it. The dealer was.like no problem you can have your deposit back and my sales guys will fight over it. I thought about buying it anyways because it was a full sized sedan that got 47 mpg. I was going to have to pay full sticker but nothing above.

I bought a new F150 lariat powerboost hybrid with the 7.2kwatt generator last year. It stickered for $63,000 but I ordered it earlier in the year and got invoice and rebates so I paid $55,000. I could have sold it to the dealer fir $65,000 when it came in. I've had a new diesel suburban on order since the first of the year and GM has even accepted it for allocation or given it a build date yet. We'll be lucky to get it this year.

I bought my wife a loaded 2021 pacifica plug in hybrid last year. Now that gas prices are so high people keep offering to buy it. I bought it for about $12,000 under sticker with all the rebates and discounts and now I'm getting offers of about what it stickered for new. It's been averaging about 50 mpg around town locally. If we go on longer trips where it's using gas the whole time it only gets about 30mpg but it's nice to not have to plug it in if you don't want to.

Bb

Gee that'd be swell. Thanks for caring. We worried out west here.

I eat quiche, brussel sprouts and fish dicks in green chilies as well.

I have $0.50 for your new 4 slice toaster...

Where is that GoFundMe page?

I wanna help brother... really I do.

I thought those folks drove Subaru's.

Drive whatever you like... there really are no rules anymore.

I am beating the fugg out of of Izzys where dozers fear to tread... who cares.

175K miles. 3.6L, 5 speed Liberty Renegade. 3.73 posi (not locker). Sold it for $3300

Ol lady has an old style Renegade
Had 50k when she got it.
Put 100k on ....still running.
Uses oil, rusted rockers....doggy 6 cyl.
Repairs have been a door issue and relay and muffler.
Under 700 total repairs.
4x4 has worked fine.

I hate it.

Buddy had the CRD Liberty and sold it at 100k miles due to some code deal when nobody could figure out how to fix. Even 2 supposed diesel shops.

First charged 1500 and light came on soon after.
Pretty sure that his only repair.

I bought a ragged out 98 GC w 5.7L.
Ive changed power steering, alternator, exhaust, cv and wheel bearings and waterpump.

Had 150k.when i got it so expected some repairs.222k now.
About 2000 in repairs and tires. On a vehicle I paid 2k for w rebuilt transmission.
Pretty cheap ....sell for a K now and its cost me 3 grand to purchase and repair a rig......for 7 yrs.

Pretty cheap.

Gonna go fetch bags of mulch w it later. Middle kid gonna load/ unload.

I avoid CVT stuff and have until now, always driven beaters w proven drivelines.

Never buy first yr of anything.

Got 285k on last XJ before head gasket let go.
No rust, some dents. overall high miles, enough to not rebuild. Guy used body off it to make a wheeler ( since no rust ).

278k on ZJ. Rusted out.

222K on current ZJ.

recently purchased or otherwise obtained vehicles:

2018 RAM 3500 Limited edition, 6.7L cummins, CC, 4WD, DRW auto with AISIN. Purchased off the lot brand new in Jan 2020 from Chapman RAM in Las Vegas, $64k + shipping to Alabama, that truck now lists for $90k+ if you can find it. right now has 15k miles on it.

2006 RAM 3500 5.9L cummins, QC, 4WD, DRW, G-56, 57k miles, Purchased from a dealership in Daytona, they took it on trade from grandpa who had knee surgery and couldn't drive a manual anymore. I paid $37k plus shipping to AL. if you can find that truck with low miles it's pushing $50k+

Inherited my Dad's 2003 Chevy 1500 with the 4.8 gas, 55k miles. 2wd, extended cab. I didn't pay anything for it. book says maybe $4500 but I've had offers of $12k.

all of that is crazy stuff. I got lucky with the 2 RAM trucks.

I’d love to have that low mileage 06 3500. I’d never pay 37k regardless

When he gets that sweet new all-electric vehicle, he'll save so much money the car might be FREE!!!

Signs of the times and the future. Ordered a new Cadillac first week of Sept 21. If I am lucky expect it will be delivered in June or July.
Get used to it. Manufacturers are done loading up dealers lots with inventory.

Ordered a “23” Silverado tdy. Hope the have it by November.

in todays market if you want a vehicle you're going to pay whatever the asking price is. Don't want to pay? then you really don't want the vehicle, that's just the way it is. I wanted that truck so I paid $37k (plus transport)

I didn’t say there aren’t plenty of people willing to pay inflated prices. I’m just not one .

Bought me a new RDX a few months ago,...280 HP twin turbo.

I won't need another vehicle for 10 years or so,...and I'll be dead by then. So my vehicle buying days seem to be done.

In fact, my 2010 Acura TL will probably outlive me,...as will my 2011 Camry and my trusty old 2005 F-150.

I'm done with car buying.

I just put a new battery on my 70 year old 8N. It doesn't seem to be ready to quit, either.

Nice. Good looking rigs.