Have a big project at work. Pouring 100-200 yards of every few days, through winter.
Concrete company informed us we may not be able to do that much longer. We used to be able to order a week in advance and have trucks on site. We're no longer guaranteed to get mix until 24 hrs prior to the pours. That really throws a wrench in to a guys project schedule.
I'm calling BS on it and don't think they have the labor to get it to us. They say its because the Mississippi is low and they barges can't get in and the a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. The origin of the cement has been known for decades. I thought the river deal was coming to and end but maybe not?
It is low and the barges are having trouble
I wouldn’t think the river situation will change till spring run off and rains, if then.
Have a big project at work. Pouring 100-200 yards of every few days, through winter.
Concrete company informed us we may not be able to do that much longer. We used to be able to order a week in advance and have trucks on site. We're no longer guaranteed to get mix until 24 hrs prior to the pours. That really throws a wrench in to a guys project schedule.
I'm calling BS on it and don't think they have the labor to get it to us. They say its because the Mississippi is low and they barges can't get in and the a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. The origin of the cement has been known for decades. I thought the river deal was coming to and end but maybe not?
Perhaps…. Here in Colorado there is a dam project that has priority on both trucks and concrete. Concrete contractors not associated with that project report that they cannot get their deliveries due to “lack of powder”…..ie, a shortage of cement. I had a small 23 yard pour get held up for weeks as the small contractor “could not get a place in line.”
All in all, it seems that by October, everybody finally got their mix and all the smaller contractors got mix needed for houses, apartments and smaller odd jobs. They did have delays and a few issues keeping their crews busy, but as far as I know everybody got pours done.
I quoted out #3,500 small stone mix last week in rural WV... for work this coming spring.
Same mix was $145 CY when I started in July 2021.
Price last week was $293 CY plus a double extra nasty fuel surcharge.
FJB
Seems to be a regional thing. Son is in the biz and says no prob around KC at this time.
Have a big project at work. Pouring 100-200 yards of every few days, through winter.
Concrete company informed us we may not be able to do that much longer. We used to be able to order a week in advance and have trucks on site. We're no longer guaranteed to get mix until 24 hrs prior to the pours. That really throws a wrench in to a guys project schedule.
I'm calling BS on it and don't think they have the labor to get it to us. They say its because the Mississippi is low and they barges can't get in and the a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. The origin of the cement has been known for decades. I thought the river deal was coming to and end but maybe not?
Perhaps…. Here in Colorado there is a dam project that has priority on both trucks and concrete. Concrete contractors not associated with that project report that they cannot get their deliveries due to “lack of powder”…..ie, a shortage of cement. I had a small 23 yard pour get held up for weeks as the small contractor “could not get a place in line.”
All in all, it seems that by October, everybody finally got their mix and all the smaller contractors got mix needed for houses, apartments and smaller odd jobs. They did have delays and a few issues keeping their crews busy, but as far as I know everybody got pours done.
I can believe the small loads not getting a spot in the que because they're small and the large jobs are probably working on Saturdays as well.
If the river is the problem, this isn't going away anytime soon either. Unless we have a wet spring because there really isn't much snow either.
Your in better shape than here, north of Minneapolis.
My large buildings going up, I have been limited to 100 yards per week. So has everyone else including the major road builds.
Everyone has to have their will call in 10 days in advance. No exceptions.
Sounds like a lot of mud, 100 yards, but when pouring grade beams 16” x 40”, and slabs for 13,000 square ft plus buildings it doesn’t go far.
The chemical components for our concrete in this area generally come by ship thru the harbors at Duluth MN. I agree with the OP that labor shortage is a big component all the way along the supply chain.
Osky
The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River she's a-goin' dry
Seems to be a regional thing. Son is in the biz and says no prob around KC at this time.
That would make sense if the river is high enough to get a barge to St. Louis.
The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River she's a-goin' dry
That's funny...that's exactly what I thought about when he said it was the river. lol
The concrete shortage is something I, as a masonry contractor, have been struggling with all year. I run a block wall up four feet and may wait days before I can get a grout truck. It takes a day to run the wall up again and the waiting resumes.
It's not just concrete either, the cement powder shortage also affects premixed mortar and cinder block manufacturing. The normal 4-6 week lead time for special order block has stretched into 7 months on one of my jobs. The masonry supply store I frequent quit selling mortar mix to the general public, contractors only. Even still, the supplier gets a truck in and it's sold off by noon, everybody wants to stock up so they don't run out halfway through a project.
Foundations by others are delayed, slabs aren't being poured on time, it's left my job scheduling in tatters.
around here I've not heard of anybody not being able to get concrete because it's not available. but the waiting times for somewhat pretty bad because of Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River she's a-goin' dry
“Interest is up and the stock markets down,
You only get mugged if you go downtown”
Prophetic to say the least
The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River she's a-goin' dry
Is that like a limerick or sumthing?
Your in better shape than here, north of Minneapolis.
My large buildings going up, I have been limited to 100 yards per week. So has everyone else including the major road builds.
Everyone has to have their will call in 10 days in advance. No exceptions.
Sounds like a lot of mud, 100 yards, but when pouring grade beams 16” x 40”, and slabs for 13,000 square ft plus buildings it doesn’t go far.
The chemical components for our concrete in this area generally come by ship thru the harbors at Duluth MN. I agree with the OP that labor shortage is a big component all the way along the supply chain.
Osky
This project is south of Minneapolis but same/same.
We have been combining our pours to be every other day or so. Making them bigger but then we only need the pump every day or the trucks everyday. Pouring 100-200yds, 2-3 days a week. We have an 88K SF addition to one of our facilities. So, we're pouring footings, walls, and columns daily.
Truthfully, I thought steel would be the bigger issue but it's not. HVAC, steel, and electrical components are usually the hold up's.
Foundations by others are delayed, slabs aren't being poured on time, it's left my job scheduling in tatters.
It's really screwing up construction schedules.
Seems to be a regional thing. Son is in the biz and says no prob around KC at this time.
Aren't there large mines and plants in that area?
I haven't asked in our region, but there is a large operation east of Albuquerque, at Tijeras. (I'm pretty sure they're still operating)
Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
Getting a good concrete crew has been an issue for 25 years. lol
Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
Getting a good concrete crew has been an issue for 25 years. lol
Truth, out of foundation work about 15 years. Needed 12 guys on the payroll just to have 7 show up.
Have a big project at work. Pouring 100-200 yards of every few days, through winter.
Concrete company informed us we may not be able to do that much longer. We used to be able to order a week in advance and have trucks on site. We're no longer guaranteed to get mix until 24 hrs prior to the pours. That really throws a wrench in to a guys project schedule.
I'm calling BS on it and don't think they have the labor to get it to us. They say its because the Mississippi is low and they barges can't get in and the a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. The origin of the cement has been known for decades. I thought the river deal was coming to and end but maybe not?
...."a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. "..... this is what happens when you go to a world economy and out scource your products ,and just in time deliveries .. that worked out well at my old factory ...not....
Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
Getting a good concrete crew has been an issue for 25 years. lol
Truth, out of foundation work about 15 years. Needed 12 guys on the payroll just to have 7 show up.
And only one can pass the piss test.
If a guy needs quick little hit to start or end the day...the concrete labors is where ya go. lol
Have a big project at work. Pouring 100-200 yards of every few days, through winter.
Concrete company informed us we may not be able to do that much longer. We used to be able to order a week in advance and have trucks on site. We're no longer guaranteed to get mix until 24 hrs prior to the pours. That really throws a wrench in to a guys project schedule.
I'm calling BS on it and don't think they have the labor to get it to us. They say its because the Mississippi is low and they barges can't get in and the a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. The origin of the cement has been known for decades. I thought the river deal was coming to and end but maybe not?
...."a lot of the cement comes from Russia and China. "..... this is what happens when you go to a world economy and out scource your products ,and just in time deliveries .. that worked out well at my old factory ...not....
That's not new. It's been coming from there for 100 years.
My brother is a ready mix producer. Cement shortages only allowed him to supply so much yardage a week which wasn’t near enough to keep up with demand.
And only one can pass the piss test.
Or have a drivers license.
We used to have a cement plant locally until about 8 years ago -- so some of it may have come from overseas, but there was local industry here from 1929-2012.
I bet there's some folks that wouldn't mind having a local supplier, now.
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
Guess what country the US imports the most concrete from??
Canada!!!
No shortage here, we are placing ~700 yds. a week.
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
Guess what country the US imports the most concrete from??
Canada!!!
That’s because there is a very large plant in Newfoundland that was built to serve the northeast part of the U.S.
Making cement is very energy intensive, so the price of energy, more particularly natural gas, determines the cost of the cement for the most part.
After the fracking revolution, our natural gas prices are very competitive worldwide. However, I doubt the current labor situation is inspiring anyone to build and operate new cement plants in this country anytime soon.
NAFTA killed off most of the American bulk cement production. That and onerous environmental regulations. The Bill Clinton NAFTA deal allowed Mexico to step up their heavily polluting cement production and subsequently flood the southwest readymix market with cheap cement. Cheaper than what could be produced here at home. And when Mexico started buying concrete batch plants they could undercut the local market with their cheap and dirty cement. Hundreds of Mom and Pop concrete companies went belly up or sold out.
NAFTA fuqked the American worker big time and this is why we are now at the mercy of foreign suppliers.
Logistics has a lot to do with the current shortage. Rail in particular has struggled to get the cement from the mills to the terminals. As you can imagine, the cost associated with transporting raw and finished materials has gone way up as well. The is certainly a regional component to the shortage. Some areas are ok, some are very short on cement. A lot has to do with the capacity of the plants that serve a given market. All it takes is one plant to break down for a shortage to occur in a pretty large geographical area. A good wet/miserable winter will likely solve some of this. It will allow the producers to build raw material inventory, and allow the rail to get the terminals full.
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
Guess what country the US imports the most concrete from??
Canada!!!
That’s because there is a very large plant in Newfoundland that was built to serve the northeast part of the U.S.
There are large plants all along the great lakes. I see the ships coming from Thunder Bay all the time.
Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
Getting a good concrete crew has been an issue for 25 years. lol
Truth, out of foundation work about 15 years. Needed 12 guys on the payroll just to have 7 show up.
And only one can pass the piss test.
If a guy needs quick little hit to start or end the day...the concrete labors is where ya go. lol
trust me the excavation ended things ain't no better trying to find help. find somebody that's got some equipment experience in a valid CDL you just will be looking for a unicorn farting rainbows
I don't know about the Mississippi River but I went over the Cumberland this weekend and it is might low.
Sounds like another DNCC success story in action.. thank the DemocRATS....
They screw up anything they can, just so then they claim we need them to administer and oversee it all....
Give 'em more time... they have lots more plans for more and more of it.
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
Guess what country the US imports the most concrete from??
Canada!!!
Lots up here
Great Lakes freighters from Rogers City to Duluth? But shipping season will end in a few weeks. There was a USCG cutter working buoys on the Straits of Mackinac yesterday.
I bet there's some folks that wouldn't mind having a local supplier, now.
Me included. We do mix in a fair amount of Fly Ash from power plants.
Labor shortage and truck driver shortage not to mention a shortage of decent concrete crews ..
Getting a good concrete crew has been an issue for 25 years. lol
Truth, out of foundation work about 15 years. Needed 12 guys on the payroll just to have 7 show up.
And only one can pass the piss test.
If a guy needs quick little hit to start or end the day...the concrete labors is where ya go. lol
trust me the excavation ended things ain't no better trying to find help. find somebody that's got some equipment experience in a valid CDL you just will be looking for a unicorn farting rainbows
Yep...my boy will be graduation HS this spring and is going to be an operator. He has 2 places begging him to come on already. He's been working at a place washing their equipment for a year now and will jump on with them in June when he's 18.
Your in better shape than here, north of Minneapolis.
My large buildings going up, I have been limited to 100 yards per week. So has everyone else including the major road builds.
Everyone has to have their will call in 10 days in advance. No exceptions.
Sounds like a lot of mud, 100 yards, but when pouring grade beams 16” x 40”, and slabs for 13,000 square ft plus buildings it doesn’t go far.
The chemical components for our concrete in this area generally come by ship thru the harbors at Duluth MN. I agree with the OP that labor shortage is a big component all the way along the supply chain.
Osky
This project is south of Minneapolis but same/same.
We have been combining our pours to be every other day or so. Making them bigger but then we only need the pump every day or the trucks everyday. Pouring 100-200yds, 2-3 days a week. We have an 88K SF addition to one of our facilities. So, we're pouring footings, walls, and columns daily.
Truthfully, I thought steel would be the bigger issue but it's not. HVAC, steel, and electrical components are usually the hold up's.
Tzone are you by chance down there on the Seagate expansion project?
Osky
From Russia and China? My first reaction was disbelief. Limestone and clay are not rare materials. And it isn't a difficult process. It is very heavy so you'd think transport costs would be huge.
Guess what country the US imports the most concrete from??
Canada!!!
Lots up here
Yeah but that's Canadian cement. The exchange rate doesn't make it worth it. We're using like 40% more cement to make spec.
No shortage here, we are placing ~700 yds. a week.
What are you paying a yard down there?
It was the same way here in TN about 9 months ago. Very frustrating to have everything you need except the damn mud.
I know, I used to work summers at Canada Cement in Winnipeg in my university days.
Your in better shape than here, north of Minneapolis.
My large buildings going up, I have been limited to 100 yards per week. So has everyone else including the major road builds.
Everyone has to have their will call in 10 days in advance. No exceptions.
Sounds like a lot of mud, 100 yards, but when pouring grade beams 16” x 40”, and slabs for 13,000 square ft plus buildings it doesn’t go far.
The chemical components for our concrete in this area generally come by ship thru the harbors at Duluth MN. I agree with the OP that labor shortage is a big component all the way along the supply chain.
Osky
This project is south of Minneapolis but same/same.
We have been combining our pours to be every other day or so. Making them bigger but then we only need the pump every day or the trucks everyday. Pouring 100-200yds, 2-3 days a week. We have an 88K SF addition to one of our facilities. So, we're pouring footings, walls, and columns daily.
Truthfully, I thought steel would be the bigger issue but it's not. HVAC, steel, and electrical components are usually the hold up's.
Tzone are you by chance down there on the Seagate expansion project?
Osky
No. Not far from there though.
Great Lakes freighters from Rogers City to Duluth? But shipping season will end in a few weeks. There was a USCG cutter working buoys on the Straits of Mackinac yesterday.
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Aagaardsporter
Campfire Member
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 319
Mid Michigan
Omicron cases seem to double every two days in virgin territory.....scary. Vaccine boosters appear to reduce risk/illness.
what a clueless idiot