Any of you folks dealt with this? I haven't got a doctor to look at mine yet, hope to get that scheduled today. Just wondering what others have went through with it.

I've lived with the pain for over 10 years.....had to switch shooting to my left.....cannot cut enough firewood in a week it now takes me a couple weeks to have enough wood for the winter....try not to over do it....

About half the Country has rotator damage. Most don't know. Chalk it up to old age and forge on. Others think its the worst thing they have ever endured. I've had both shoulders done, 38 years of Linework. Pain is less. But, I'll never play catch with a child or the Guys or throw for my dog again.
You gotta weigh quality of life and what you want. Life is pain. Sometimes the answer is deal with it.

I’ve dealt with in, had a shoulder rebuilt. The pain was no longer manageable, so I had it done. The surgery and recovery sucked, but it helped a lot. Doc said I’d get 20 years out of the fix, and it was in 2003, so it’s getting to be time again. Good luck, I hope it’s something simple.

Old70

Thanks for the replies. I don't mind some pain and usually deal with it okay but most things have always gotten better for me. This gets pretty intense by bedtime. It moves up my shoulder and my neck muscles really hurt, as bad as the shoulder.

Yes. Doing the rehab exercises that they'd prescribe after surgery is actually almost as likely to resolve the issue as surgery itself. Try that before considering the operation.

When it gets to the point that it's interfering with your sleep, you need to do something about it. Which normally means surgery. My surgery was not bad pain-wise and since then I've had no problems with the shoulder.

Starting physical therapy this week. Really difficult to sleep as I'm a side sleeper... on the shoulder that is affected. If physical therapy doesn't help with the pain and limited motion, I guess it'll be time for an MRI and possibly surgery.

Surgery is the only way to repair a torn rotator cuff, I've had both repaired. The first was a medium to large tear and the other was a complete tear off, the complete tear off was the more difficult to rehab. For the first 8 weeks rehab was passive, I went to PT and the therapist stretched my shoulder. The remaining time in PT was pretty normal. I have about 90% range of motion but cannot work with my arms extended overhead for very long. I am pain free and glad to have had both repaired.

Small tear there and biceps. Workers comp injury so forced me to go through physical therapy.

Physical therapy for the most part eliminated the pain going 3 days/wk for 2 months. Basically they helped build up the supporting muscles around the tears to reduce further damage because if you dont you will learn to compensate and either do more damage to the tears or the supporting muscles.

I had been exercising for years just to stay in shape. But during physical therapy, using resistance bands and water therapy, they helped me learn how to properly hit every head of the deltoid muscles and strengthen them. After therapy was over I then started on my own to build those muscles much bigger than I had been previously.

Still get lil prick of pain if I dont use proper form while working. Much better than the original pain or going through surgery tho!

My Dad recently was diagnosed with a completely torn rotator cuff that is years old. He's been complaining about that shoulder for years. He's 88 so they won't do surgery.

Now, I'm starting to feel it in my right shoulder. It's getting harder and harder to lift my arm above my head.

I found some cream at a CBD store that really helps Dad's pain. It's not cheap but works. I've put it on my shoulder and knee and pain feels WAY better within minutes.

The longer you wait the worse it gets.........

I put off surgery for as long as I could. Had a tear for a couple of years, it wasn't too bad. Then last Feb I fell and tore my bicep. Had surgery end of July, fixed tear and reattached the bicep. Was in a sling for 6 weeks and am just now allowed to start lifting a little weight. Won't be able to use it fully for 6 months.

It's not fun at all.

Only a fool doesn't do Physical Therapy ! Either before or most importantly after surgery, doing exactly as your doctor and therapist instruct you to will ensure successful recovery.

Take a look at ultrasound-guided percutaneous needle tenotomy with PRP. It might take two or three injections (treatments). There is one case study where an elderly woman got complete "in-filling" (complete healing) of a full-width (100%) rotator cuff tear. I have a 60% tear and have had one injection and am scheduled for a second. The first injection greatly improved my pain. I go to a clinic in Reno, Nevada (Sweetwater Pain and Spine) where three of the doctors did their residencies at the Mayo Clinic. You need a doctor who knows what he is doing. The price is $700 and is not covered by Medicare.


https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...rapies/plateletrich-plasma-prp-treatment

https://bmcmusculoskeletdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12891-021-04288-4

https://ejrnm.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43055-020-00221-2

Everyone is different. Its amazing how your body will compensate, react, overcome. The pain in the neck is normally less/ un used muscles picking up the slack for those not being utilized because of the tear.
I took zero pain pills after both. With my right they didn't know how i was still working. I got cadaver parts in that one. The Left they did arthroscopic, only to have come apart in Post PT, then they opened me up and re-did like the right..
Even with all that, no drugs. Just ice.
There is also a non invasive that is becoming more popular for knees, but is being tried with Shoulders.
They draw your own blood, centrifuge it to isolate and concentrate the Stem cells, then inject them. Back into the joint. Might be something else to consider.

The sometimes very painful rehab exercises won't help at all if you have detached or damaged rotator cuff tendons (I had both). My health insurance wouldn't pay for an MRI until I went through the rehab therapy. When I got the MRI and they found physical damage that required surgery to repair. I got the surgery and went to the same therapist for rehab. He looked surprised and asked what why I was back for more therapy because he had already "fixed" my shoulder. I asked for another therapist. I'm glad I did because all the other therapist were hot young women. My shoulder hasn't bothered me at all since I completed the rehab over 12 years ago.
.

Yes. Its called PRP, but they don't use stem cells per se. See my post immediately above.

Thanks again guys! I have an appointment for December 21st. I'm all about doing everything I can to help myself and do as the doctor suggest, I know him and my wife has worked in the hospital where he works and he is very good. I'm very active and being limited by something like this works me over in a big way so I have lots of motivation for do all I can to move forward. For therapy we have an excellent place not far from here that helped me about 12 years ago when I had a ruptured disc. No surgery on that account. God and time made a huge difference.

I tore mine about 50%, six months of suck, six months of occasional suck, then after a about year it was fine. No surgery for me, but it took a long time to heal.

I had rotator cuff shoulder on both shoulders. I heard if you do what you're told it'll be 12 weeks and you'll be back to normal I was. I also heard if you don't do what the doctor says you might be a year out and still not be right

Yeah, the fix takes a while to recover from. A PT bud told me it takes up to a year for full recovery.

Lot of people have a spur on the A/C joint that irritates the RC, can cause impingement syndrome. And if you fall off a 4 wheeler, that spur can whack the RC like a guillotine. Don’t ask how I know.

With a significant RC tear, time is important. Waiting too long, like a couple of years, when the surgeon finally gets in there with a scope, everything is scarred down, not much to fix.

So, if ya can’t raise your arm over your head, get an MRI. If it’s torn, get it fixed.

Not hearsay, BTDT.

DF

I had a complete tear+ Bicep detached. Had reverse shoulder replacement. Right side. Left is torn too, but not as bad.The rehab was so bad on the right, I won't have the left done anytime soon.

Torn mine a couple of times. Didn't go to the doctor, 9 months recovery. About the same as if I had gone to a doctor.

I've not had it. Cardinals hall of fame shortstop Ozzie Smith had successful surgery.

My left shoulder is a rebuilt maze of cadaver pieces and parts, monofilament 100# test line and stainless steel, with a couple of cut off bones. Thank you whom ever you were, as a parts donor. I elected the dumb butt push on through version of the stupid path. That ignore it path does not work, only gets worse, and worse, until one day the rotator tendon itself snaps right in two parts....then you are truly fornicated to the max. You have no shoulder, because the ball snaps out of joint.
So off I went to see the wizard, "Dr Shoulder, he wrote the books, 3, on shoulder surgery, a NASA orthopedic flight surgeon. He said if I followed the rehab to the letter I would have better function on the repaired shoulder than the non repaired shoulder and that is exactly what I did, and the left shoulder does have better function and more strength today than he right shoulder. I am right handed. It was not easy but, it is way better than the years of pain I had endured before the surgury. Took 3 months of intense rehab to get good function back in the left and another couple to get 100+% function.
Just another hill to climb, in a life with a lot of scars from doing interesting things things with a sharp learning curve..

Just for a glimmer of hope - I tore my rotator cuff when the pull start on a snowthrower locked up. I put up with it for several months and finally had an MRI and a cortisone shot. The shot cured it - end of story.

If you decline rehab then don't expect to regain function fully nor have a good outcome.

Injured my RC back in late May weight lifting. But in all honesty, always had right shoulder RC issues and some pain.

I couldn’t sleep on my right side for months. Continued lifting weights but on exercises that did little pain to the RC, but kept pressing the envelope.


Went to the doc in early September. Gave me a steroid injection in the shoulder. Had an MRI. Doc said a high grade anterior tear. Essentially a moderate tear. Continuing working out and have about regained all my shoulder strength, but mobility isn’t all there. Started PT. Seems to help. I can now sleep for a while on my right side.

Doc said like 80% of the people my age have RC issues and pain.

He said surgery for me might be avoided, which I am shooting for if it continues improving as he said the surgery is months of rehab and 6 weeks of no driving.

Anyone have the Roster comb injection?

Frozen shoulder, Adhesive Capsulitis, is often what folks have, thinking it is a rotator cuff issue. That sure is painful as hell.

Mine was just impinged and PT fixed it
Kid has had both Bankhart repaired.
Said it sucked

You gots to make sure its the rotator first Hoss

Hmm, does it hurt when you extend the arm straight out and turn your wrist left or right like a radio volume?

Does it hurt when you reach over behind your head?

Dig your fingers into the area behind the deltoid into the Teres Minor area, then behind the arm where the brachii connect to the tendon, then dig fingers into the area just above the elbow in the olecranon area where muscle and tendons come together. Do you find after exploring 1-3 pinpoint spots of pain?

Neither of those hurt me when I just did them. It's tough reaching behind my head due to stiffness but there is no pain in it.

Well thats good because I don’t think there is an official diagnosis for what I was describing. It will feel like a shoulder but ain’t and it doesn’t show up on MRI. It moves up through the neck too making it feel like a neck problem.

Only way to know is to get that MRI done

I recommend getting the neck and shoulder done because nerves are weird things.

If you are prone to having shoulder issues from time to time but have not yet really torn anything up, I highly recommend a regimen of shoulder movements with resistance bands to strengthen all the small stabilizer muscles that keep the shoulder in place when you put a real load on it at other times. It’s about like regularly adjusting and tightening your tie down straps on trailer load, far less likely to tear things up when encountering sudden or harsh stress, or even repetitive movements. That’s what those muscles are there for, to keep things lined up and snug while the shoulder is being used. My shoulder pain is the best it’s been in years, being nearly nonexistent. I also did away with a few exercises that just weren’t worth it anymore, like deep chest dips, behind the neck presses, and wide grip pullups.

I’d been having mild trouble with mine for several years. A little over a year and a half ago it let go. Went to an orthopedic surgeon and had a MRI. Torn. Couldn’t sleep at night, couldn’t lift my arm above my shoulder.

I wasn’t ready for the long recovery so told him I’d probably schedule the the surgery for winter six months later. In the meantime I started doing some physiotherapy stretches and light weights.

By the time the six months had passed was able to sleep through the night, and my range of motion was pretty much restored. Still get twinges, and minor pain occasionally. Physical therapist said it probably wasn’t 100% but, said he wouldn’t rush to surgery unless it worsens.

Surgery 6 months ago for full tear! Pain was BAD after the juicy juice wore of the next day! Slept in recliner and on sofa with a pillow under the arm! Driving with sling 2 weeks after (against dr and wifey wishes)! Intense rehab and pushed myself pretty hard in rehab and on my "off" days! All the PT's said it showed as most don't do any more than required at PT! Back shooting and swinging a golf club after 5 months! Not 100% but pretty close! Get the MRI, get the surgery if necessary and bust your ass in rehab! You'll be happy you did! There's no reason to "deal with it" when there's a fix out there IMO!

I just tore my rotator cuff 2 weeks ago Monday. Can’t get into physical therapy till January. Is it like that everywhere? They ask “who is your regular doctor ? “ Now I say whoever is one duty that day. For the last decade or so anytime I call to see my doctor it is 2 months out to see him. What kind of healthcare is that?shot the crossbow thinking I could go hunting, that was a mistake. I need to look up the exercises you are talking about. I am glad I saw this thread. Thank you Jim 1611.

ICE and Ibuprofen. LOTS of ICE. Will help manage the inflammation until you can get it fixed.

If you have a rotator cuff tear, it will NOT heal on its own. Dealing with the pain is a recipe for disaster. The best therapy in the world can’t repair a rotator cuff tear.

If it is truly a tear, the only way to keep it from getting worse is surgical repair. I spent decades moving heavy vending machines and eventually tore both rotator cuffs. I had them repaired and with proper therapy, got all my motion back. I can’t throw a ball like I used to, but I don’t need to.

I can do anything I did before the tear and without surgery, I would be a wreck. Living with pain is a personal decision, but it is unnecessary and stupid. Get it fixed and get a good therapist and you won’t be sorry…

I went to a good ortho doc. He did a good job on the repair. BUT, after the shots wore off twelve hours later, I found out quick he was too conservative with the pain meds. He would only prescribe Hydro. My wife drove me to his office, so I could look him straight in the eyes and demand Oxy. He couldn't do it over the phone. Get Oxy for a week. Or something stronger. Then switch to the hydro after that if you need it. I was ready to kick his ass and he knew it.

It may not be a rotator cuff problem at all. It could be bursitis which is an inflammation of the bursa sac inside the shoulder. It also can be very painful.

Recliner. Now, that brings back memories. I could only sleep in a recliner, couldn’t get comfortable in bed. I had to get one with electric controls, as I couldn’t manipulate the handle on the right side. It was my right shoulder.

After surgery, it took months of PT. My surgeon is a hunter and shooter. Some years later, I was sighting in my Bud’s .416 Rem. I sent a video to my surgeon, bragging on his work. He got a chuckle.

Actually gun recoil doesn’t directly stress the RC, more shoulder girdle involvement. But, it would be hard to shoot big guns if the shoulder anatomy was “mad”.

I don’t know if one actually gets 100% original function. Pretty close, for sure. The best surgeon can’t rebuild it as well as God made it. But when it’s broke it needs fixing. And waiting too long can be counter productive.

DF

I had a tear and surgery in April 2022. Dr said it was just hanging on by a thread, so I had the surgery. The post-surgery pain wasn't bad at all. I never took the pain meds they sent me home with. Recovery was a serious inconvenience though. They make you wear this sling for 6 weeks, even to sleep. I had to quickly learn to shave, brush my teeth and wipe my butt left handed. I went to PT as prescribed and did every bit of it. After 6 months, I was about 75% healed. 99% after one year. I'm glad I had the surgery though. I am now pain free. I hope you don't need the surgery, but if you do I bet you'll be glad later. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and if you do have the surgery and need to sleep with the sling, a reclining sofa will be your best friend. Sleep upright until you need to move, then lay down on the good shoulder. Switch as needed.

I missed this post. I just did as you suggest and none of that causes any pain whatsoever. This morning most of my pain and stiffness are at the base of my neck and back side of my shoulder blade but it's not bad at all, more of a dull pain.

Appointment date is December 21st with a specialist. As many have suggested I have been using a lot of ice on this. It helps immensely especially when I try to sleep. One thing that sets this off is sitting at my desk and looking at a screen. It makes my neck sore and the muscle on top of my should sore. Fortunately it's not my job and this is the extent of my online interaction. I sure am glad to hear about all of you that have gotten back to normal after having what I may or may not have.

Shoulder girdle, shoulder muscle pain is often referred to as “shoulder” pain, when it’s not.

That’s why a good evaluation and correct diagnosis is critical.

DF

Its pretty easy to miss those spots until you hit them exactly, but the back side of the blade with the pain running up the neck or around under to the bicep is one of the spots for sure for what I mentioned.

Do get the MRI done

Absolutely. I wish my appointment was sooner and in the mean time may try to find another doctor to take a look at it but I do plan to keep the one on the 21st.

Thanks. I intend to do just that. It would be nice if this is just a strain and not the rotator cuff.

Sometimes its easier to fix when and if things show up on MRI

This sounds more like a cervical disc issue that is putting pressure on a nerve. That can cause pain and/or numbness from the pressure point all the way to the finger tips and any place in between. It can also magnify any existing pain points along the way. For example, making a minor rotator cuff injury seem major. Be careful not to guide the doctor to a conclusion.

What Shrapnel said +1000 !

JOG is right too

Same here it doesn't hurt anymore but it's never going to be like it was before the injury.

There can be lots of overlap between cervical issues and shoulder issues. You'll see ortho specialists ordering cervical MRI's to clarify those kinda questions.

Scapular trigger points can also mimic other issues. A good exam helps sort it out.

In our state, patients have direct access to physical therapists without a doctor's referral. That's another good source of info and those guys generally do a really good evaluation and can guide you in the right direction. That beats the heck out of a trip to urgent care. And generally you'll get seen quicker.

DF

I did, no help at all. finally had a complete shoulder replacement. No pain anymore. PT went smooth and easy, glad I did it.

50% tear with no surgery? Witch Doctor? Cuff (cartiledge) doesn't grow back its stops at puberty. That's why kids "grow into" their noses and ears.
When they operate, you come out with the same tear you went in with. They "arrest" it with a hole. Similar to what someone would do with a wood crack.
The PRP injection process is an attempt to tricking the body that its not past Puberty, and get new cartilage tissue to grow.

Cortisone Shots don't CURE anything. They are masking agents. They shrink stuff to reduce pressure. Temporarily.

Tell them your illegal, get to the front of the line!

Yeah, Uncle Joey will take care of ya if you illegal. But gotta pay the coyote. So it’s not all free, just after you hit American soil.

Jan for PT. Think I’d shop providers. Surely they not so busy that someone can take care of ya.

DF

I friend of mine tore out his rotator jumping onto a rope in an obstacle course.

He violated my rule, "No obstacle course when you have gray hair."

I'd talk to a Dr., not us yah-hoos!

Been there, done that, some 15 years ago. P.t did not help, so then surgery and p.t. I agree with gunwizard et al - quit dicking around with it!

6 months after my after-surgery pt was done I figured I was 95% again. Maybe, maybe not. Then, "Retired" at age 61, I got a baggage handling job for an airline handling about 30,000 lbs daily, and worked in mild-moderate pain for the next year. That was great pt for me.

THEN I was about 99% or better. As said, I still have to watch weight and motion a bit to not provoke a mild strain which lasts a day or two. I'm 75 now, and can still lift heavy chit .... to a point, of course. Not as much as 40 years ago.... anything over 90 I get leverage, help, divide and conquer, or just forget it! More and more of the latter.

Doesn't sound like rotator cuff and hopefully just a strain, something a little PT/MT will fix!

Sure it can. In many cases, including mine, the torn tendon catches on the bone which can be non-stop source of pain and inflammation. The cortisone shot reduces the inflammation and swelling to where the tendon no longer catches and can finally heal.

Was my tear relatively minor? Yes. Will a cortisone shot always work? No.

I'm hoping it's a strain. My wife is going to try to get me in to see a general surgeon today. That will get the MRI sooner. Right now most of my pain, really not that bad, is my neck. The shoulder is only mildly sore this morning and the range of movement is improving. I never discount the power of God either. I have had some excellent help by trained physicians but even they are limited. God is not.

Old football injuries and youthful stupidity caused my right shoulder to dislocated several times!
I never went to a doctor, I was able to pop it back in place and continue on.
In 2019, I couldn't get a full night's sleep! Move my arm wrong and excruciating pain would bring me out of the deepest sleep. Wife pointed to a skunk in the yard. I grabbed a shotgun in hot pursuit. When the gun went off, I almost dropped the gun and ended up on my knees due to the pain.
I missed the skunk, but I DID NOT miss the appointment I made with an orthopedic surgeon when I got back in the house!

Your right shoulder is G-O-N-E! It's bone on bone. We can do steroid (cortisone) shots, but it won't last long. Your only other option is replacement surgery!
I opted for the latter!
I still find uncomfortable positions with the shoulder and I've had to revert to only semi auto long guns for the reduced recoil. But the surgery was a blessing!
Full replacement of the right shoulder.
My youngest had orthroscopic surgery on the right shoulder to clean up and repair! STILL having hell!

NOTE: I've spent WAY more time with orthopedic surgeons than I care to recall, so I can tell you this with good authority and experience!

Once you damage a joint, ANY joint, it begins to slowly deteriorate.
All those cortisone shots do is cover up the problem as it slowly advances until surgery is the only option....or you die! All I did was chose to die in comfort! 😉

picture taken monday. I know about it some. Third repair, second time on this one, surgeon said interesting thing about this time is that bone spurs were causing longititudinal tears in the cuff along with the partial tear across it.

good luck with it. my first we di PT for close to 6 months, then because i couldn't lift a gallon of milk above shoulder height even with full range of motion and less pain, we got the MRI approved and needed serious surgery.

I wish the insurance companies would just start with imaging, instead of requiring PT, copays, and more Dr visits only to find out it was a waste of time. Been fighting about this shoulder for over 2 years now, and i hope to have full use again by summer

I sure hope your recovery is full and speedy! Yes I would say you know "some" about it. Thanks for the well wishes on mine. Whatever the problem is I am able to see some progress in what I can do. Last week I couldn't get my hand to my face to shave but now it's not a problem. If it is the rotator cuff I want to know so I can avoid making it worse. I also want to know what I need to be doing to help make it better. It's never been an issue for me to do as a doctor suggest as far as recovery. I know that's all on me and I devote myself to getting it done. Again best wishes to you and I hope you're better very soon!

Thought I'd update my thread a bit. I had a doctor's appointment on December 1st to see what's going on. After examining the shoulder and twisting and turning it every which way he came to the conclusion it's highly unlikely I have a rotator cuff problem or a frozen shoulder. I haven't had an MRI yet. In all he did with the shoulder there was no extra pain or discomfort. He asked if I'd be willing to do therapy and have been going for that. When that started the guy working with me told me most cases he sees like mine take 8 sessions to accomplish what they want but after that first visit he told me mine would likely only take 4. I've been doing all the stuff at home they outlined for me to do and have regained allot of the movement in my left shoulder. I can also sleep all night again too. The pain is almost gone too except for a few times I overdo something. This has turned out to be the longest it has taken for me to get over anything but it is so much better than a month ago I am encouraged. Thanks God for a body that heals!

Once you top 40, any healing or conditioning you do takes longer and as you age more, it takes MUCH longer.

Aint that the truth!

What do they feel the issue is/was

Be careful about this kind of advice. A torn rotator cuff will not heal on its own. The tendons in the shoulder have tension on them creating a natural pulling away from the connective tissue in the shoulder and will not magically repair itself without surgery…

I think I know what's wrong with your shoulder.


You are old AF!

Tears don't heal with therapy.

I'm two weeks after my surgery. It's tough. The rehab is super important.

Damn dude,

have you not seen pics of me previously? You're just now figuring it out?

5 weeks today, Dr appt last week. I can't start on PT until after the first but I'm allowed to take sling off & slide my arm on the table to stretch it. Yippee.

Was it a specific injury from when you were a roadie for Frank Zappa or was it more cumulative?

I think mostly the latter.

Started when I was overworked by the nuns. Having to reach as high as I could on the blackboard while writing I will not terrorize the teacher 500 times was a bit taxing.

The doc didn't have an answer as to what it was. His best guess is a strain. According to him I should have had some pain when he moved it around and twisted it but there was none at any time. Most of the pain is gone now and I'm regaining the movement in it. The past 5 days that part has really improved. If it keeps getting better I'll likely not have the MRI.

My girlfriend had a complete tear of the rotator cuff. A complete tear will not heal. She had surgery 2 weeks ago, and it is going well.
Very painful.

it goes up my neck so far as to drive really bad headaches.
limits the weight and muscle I used to have. kind of a pita but middle of the night I was up a bit, and was thinking of every area that is almost constantly in a day hurting and realized I'm getting old.

Rotator cuff is nothing to mess with, ive had 3 tears on my left shoulder surgery 3 times twice to repair the rotator cuff. Bicep tendon, arthritis and bone spurs.
I tore mine 3rd time in June just getting in my truck they won't do surgery again said its not worth it untill I replace it and thats close im living on cortisone shots now but they only last for couple months.
In 30 minutes im having a Dr. Consultation to do stem cell therapy in both my shoulders and back, the way I see it ive got nothing to loose.
According to some Ortho Docs I've seen im a prime candidate for a reverse shoulder replacement because of the condition of my rotator cuff and bicep tendon so they can have a place to reattach the cuff and tendon

They may however scar tissue over.

! Obviously not a tear of any kind! Glad to hear you're getting better👍🏻

I've had partial tears on both, both required surgery. My left (I'm left hand dominant) I put off until I nearly couldn't lift it at all. Rehab after surgery sucked, my therapist told me day 1 "you'll want to punch me in the face long before you can lift your arm well enough to do it". Took me nearly a year to be back to baseline on the left. My right I was a little smarter and as soon as I suspected what I did, I got to Ol' Sawbones and had it repaired. That rehab still sucked, but was back to good in about 4 months.